Avilan1972
59252
1239
88
So anyway, so far 30 000 civilian dead, at leat 11 000 of them children, and the fastest growing starvation catastrophe i modern times. The intent is obviusly to exterminate Palestinians.
unannouncedguest
They became what they hated
[deleted]
[deleted]
Fendeezy
Extremists versus extremists, with innocent civilians being caught in the middle.
littlecoatfatguy
"We wouldn't have had to starve those infants to death if they'd simply denounced Hamas!"
zigzagler
Civilians trying desperately to survive: "We denounce Hamas!" Israeli government: "Did you hear something? Anyway, open fire"
Ebo352
Sanctioned genocide
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
@craznar, still think it's not genocide?
BlindGardener
Childhood starvation fucks up adult risk assessment skills
IUsedToHaveUsernameOnce
But it's all good because Raytheon is having a good quarter
LordKitchenersValet
Children are *being starved*
Avilan1972
Yes. But the number i gave are the ones that were shot or blown up.
joot78
No, don’t use passive voice: *Israel* is starving the children.
brownribbon
“lol” -Netanyahu
thomerow
If people don't get it, they can falsely accuse me of being an anti semite any day, but FUCK ISRAEL and FUCK NETANYAHU.
Targe0
Say fuck Israels Government. As it's their government doing this shit, not necessarily the people. But yes, Netanyahu bears 90% of the burden and the blood from Israels response. Like Hamas does for Palestine and not the Palestinian people. Both “Governments” need to be removed because both don't seek peace but extermination of the other. There won't be peace while either group is in power.
SuperFlamingTominoHead
That's a weird way of saying being shot dead.
haggerton
In case you're wondering if genocide through famine will change the USA's mind on how they will act, feel free to check declassified reports from past events on where their moral standards are. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000402879.pdf (p.7-8)
Rignak
Summarize this in 20 words or less I ain't reading a downloaded pdf doc.
LordKingSalmon
USA bad.
haggerton
TL;DR (sorry more than 20words) The 1959-61 Chinese famine is well known. What's less well known is that by early 60s China brokered 5 mil mt of grain imports from the West (mostly Canada) despite US embargo, and the CIA doc here details how it can send China back into the famine (and kill millions more) by enforcing the embargo better. Media scarcely talks about it, here's an example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/an-era-ends-as-china-becomes-an-aid-donor/article978192/
Rignak
Yeah. The cold hard truth is that decisions like these are made constantly everyday around the world. Doesn't make each of them any less bad. Starvation, homelessness and war. Humans suck.
haggerton
There are many valid takes on genocide, this is not one of them. Would you answer "lol everyone sucks not just Nazi Germany" when talking about the holocaust? No. Fuck Fascist America, and fuck all fascists who support it.
zoeytg
Israeli protesters daily block aid from entering Gaza, they put up a bouncy castle one day. Mean while anti-war protesters in the capital get water canons turned on them. Ruling party says its treating protesters equally.
Nalianna
It's like a holocaust,
ReverseTransmission
sgersh8
Hamas turns down another cease fire proposal
CoarseAndSalty
It is staggering how difficult it is for children to get enough food WHEN YOU SHOOT AT THEM WAITING IN LINE FOR FOOD.
CalvinMcFly
Kids man......kids....
DisgruntledFerret
There's a reason why Ireland is on the Palestinians' side in this. For centuries they lived this same life at the hands of the english.
grumpyyyy
Totally not the same - not even close.
DisgruntledFerret
Irish famine says fuck you.
Elnauriel
I applaud Ireland for the new bill they passed on helping Palestinians. It frustrates me to no end that, as per usual, the only people willing to help are the ones who know exactly what it feels like, suggesting, yet again, that empathy is something most world leaders apparently lack. =(
onlyhalfghost
well, you'd think if there was *one* other government that'd know, it'd be Israel...
Elnauriel
And that's the most ironic part of all of this. Maybe this is the national equivalent of the idiom 'hurt-people hurt people'. Which of course doesn't make it just or right.
SteveTheEgg
Where are those people the Germans disenfranchise and tortured during WWII, surely they would have something to say about this Nazi like behavior coming from Israel.
Elnauriel
I know Israel has been busy fighting with Arab countries for the past 50 years, but I don't think it's a coincidence that we're reaching a point where nearly all WW2 participants, especially survivors of the Holocaust, are nearly gone, along with their voices and warnings.
WigglyBlondeNoodle
There is unfortunately a strong correlation between those who seek out leadership roles and narcissism. A lot of those in power simply don't have the mental capacity to care about other people. Either that, or it's like the US where nearly every politician is bought out by "special interest" groups and corporations.
ServerMonkeyKing
Maybe modernly recorded, because Stalin really fucked over Ukraine through starvation tactics previously. Still horrible though, why are we weaponizing basic human needs?
Avilan1972
Because the "we" WANT dead children.
Zedrapazia
Because it's an extremely effective way of demoralization. Yet also an extremely cruel one.
AyatollahBahloni
Targe0
Is oddly not involved in this conflict in the Middle East that involves the region around the holy land for once.
hunlogem
Birth control is also an amazing tool but gets
Foreshadowed by the right ing chistians
gakagoat
Yes, so let's let Biden continue to unabashedly call himself a Zionist and continue to send money and weapons to Israel.
HolyCringeLordBatman
Cool, provide a viable alternative.
DisgruntledFerret
Hey gakagoat, are you American? If so, gakagoat, who did you vote for in the last US election? Let's compare notes on policy.
SlickWithaLimerick
All bitching and no solutions... How original.
biggiej
Literally not true, Sudan, right now....more people in worst condition with far less international support. Don't use imgur for your news....seriously so much misinformation on this site.
getyourfruitoffmeyoudamndirtygrapes
This is a site for literally feeding peoples' gluttonous desire to fill their emotion holes.
Avilan1972
Um... two different measurements. "Fastest decline into starvation" vs "More people starving for longer".
BubblegumPinkSoda
Like you said, Sudan is one of the worst places on earth right now. Crickets. Boko Haram displaced millions of kids and kidnapped thousands in Nigeria. Crickets. 100k+ people died of the ongoing famine in Yemen, with 5m+ in desperate need of food. Crickets. All Muslims, yet never mentioned.
etherealAffairs
IIRC for Yemen, the UN gave up on sending them aid because the Houthis raid or appropriate all the food the UN tries to distribute to the people. There is a certain irony in seeing Pro Palestinians support the Houthis but complain about possible famine in Gaza though I'd prefer nobody was starving.
Zedrapazia
The Hamas also did attack red cross food deliveries. Sparked a debate in Switzerland on whether they should stop them because Hamas is up and about to become outlawed anyway, so anyone getting in contact with them would be treated as one of them (note: the Hamas, not the Palestinians in general).
Zedrapazia
I am simply repeating facts, downvoting won't make them any less true. I don't support this either, but neither can I change it
duoplicity
Can we see a source for your "facts" you are simply repeating? I've never heard of Hamas attacks on the Red Cross nor can I find anything on it
CitizenPrime
My dudes, it's not a competition who has it worse
HeyHeresALameNameThatNooneWillHave
No but I think the point was that the wording on the post is misleading to make the situation sound like it's unprecedented. It is definitely still horrible, just not unprecedented.
Huor
All of them civilians? Whats your source on that?
DerpMeister
Imgur isn't really the place to ask questions like that, unless you want to farm downvotes. Wikipedia says that the Hamas led Ministry of Health of Gaza claims that 30k Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since the war began. Hamas doesn't say anything about how many of them were Hamas fighters. Israel claims 13k of them were Hamas fighters, which is doubtful. Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper that is critical of the government, claims that 61% of the losses are civilians, which is believable.
DawnofAzazel
So 11.7k is believable but 13k is unbelievable?
DerpMeister
Bad wording invoving absolute and percental numbers. I do believe that the IDF kills 2 civilians for every Hamas fighter. I do not believe Hamas when they say that 30k people have been killed in combat action. So when the IDF claims that they've killed 13k fighters but "only" 10k civilians, then I think that the IDF is misreporting civilian casulties as combatant casulties.
DawnofAzazel
To be honest I don't think we will see anything approaching accurate numbers until at least a couple years after it's all done. IDF are always going to assume military aged men are combatants because Hamas hide in the populace thereby inflating combatant casualties, and Hamas' numbers have repeatedly been shown to be fictitious at best, I don't think anyone knows the real numbers right now.
DerpMeister
"Cui bono" is always a good thing to ask when judging statistics. IDF has an interest in low numbers, Hamas has an interest in high numbers. The truth is most likely somewhere in between.
dontrike
So if a small fraction are Hamas then this is okay?
Huor
What is the fraction?
HolyCringeLordBatman
Not a direct source for casualty percentages, but it gives a very fucking clear insight into the mindset of the IDF. https://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-military-idf-civilian-casualties-ratio-hamas-972-report-2024-4
sitenickname
Israel claims more than 1/3rd but if 70% are women/children that means that all the rest, 30% are men. This means of 30,000 killed, 9000 are men so for Israel's numbers that means every man was Hamas despite IDF claims 30,000 out of 2.4 million in Gaza were Hamas so Israel is remarkably accurate when killing men but terribly inaccurate killing women & children or, most men are not Hamas (this is the truth): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
They're not just starving, they're trapped. It's incredibly difficult to leave Gaza on Israel's terms, in peace or wartime. All in the name of protecting Israeli settlements (stolen land) of course. Which must be a good reason to someone because it's been the status quo for like 55 years despite the settlements being illegal under international law.
BlindGardener
No settlements in Gaza. Gaza and the west bank are very different places with very direct issues, which is part of why a 2 state solution won’t work: It’s not really possible for the two to become one at this point, they have culturally diverged.
BlindGardener
You need a minimum of 3 states
realair
isreal removed its gaza settlements and gaza borders another country, why did you not include them in your comment?
Zedrapazia
The surrounding countries also don't want them to leave because they see the Palestinians as something like "yard dogs" that are kept outside to keep the unwanted away - so if everyone would leave Palestine, their buffer would be gone.
Was pretty shocking to read - I'd leave a link, but it's a physical newspaper made from paper, weeks old and it's German. :(
zafner
I feel like at this point talking about the stolen land is kind of like yelling at a school shooter currently drilling sophomores that he's parked blocking the driveway. The crime of the stolen land is at this point irrelevant. The nation of Israel has gone full Nazi
cromstantinople
We've got to stop calling them settlements and settlers. They're terrorists. No other group could walk into a place, murder your family and forcibly expel any survivors and be called 'settlers'. It's not the great open frontier, they're killing people and stealing land. Period. I'm done with that euphemism.
BlindGardener
What about the american settlers? The mexican ones? the canadian ones? Everyone who settled the new world? The roman settlers of england? The russian settlers of manchuria?
BlindGardener
The koreans who settled japan wiping out the anu people who now call themselves the japanese?
cromstantinople
All of those committed atrocities and are thoroughly documented in history. When are we going to learn that killing people and taking the land they've lived on for centuries is not the way we should do things? You're sort of proving my point. If we look back at those examples there were horrific things done in their names. Genocide of natives, enslavement, etc. I don't doubt history will judge Israel and it's treatment of Palestinians like they do the US and their treatment of Native Americans.
BlindGardener
I know. Settlement and settlers means that.
SneakerPumpernickel
Why can't they leave by tunnel
RandAIFlagg
They tried but for some reason, even though the roadrunner got through it first, they just pancaked against the cliff face they'd painted it on
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Because Tunnels = Hamas. Even the child-sized ones dug by children trying to escape the prison that Israel pretends isn't a prison.
In fact, as a primer on Hams...
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
cubeandcube
Why doesn't Egypt open its borders?
Zedrapazia
I can actually explain that. Egypt is not particularly willing to take up refugees in the first place because they cost money. Egypt has been very aggressive with this issue ever since due to refugees from the south that want to travel by boat to Europe traversing the country (usually to get to Tunesia where a lot of those boats come from).
Therefore, Egypt is especially unwilling to take in more refugees willingly than those that come by themselves.
Plus, Palestine is used as a buffer zone ->
Zedrapazia
-> against Israel, so none of the countries that anyhow border to Palestine are willing to take in refugees. If they did that, the people would obviously leave, and Palestine would become pretty empty, which is unwanted because Israel would gobble up the buffer zone.
I don't remember whose president it was, but one of them referred to the Palestinians as "Yard dogs" that "you don't let into your house".
I unfortunately can't link the source because it's from a German paper newspaper.
Zedrapazia
Regarding Europe's position on this:
From all discussions I can see here, it's quite unsure how Palestinian refugees would even be accepted and where because it is feared that they might attempt to murder Jewish locals (that have nothing to do with the war).
I can only speak for Switzerland, but a few days ago someone actually stabbed a random Jewish person in the name of Gaza because of what Israel has been doing - it didn't help the situation and made a lot of people less willing to help Gaza.
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
Where would they go? Who wants them? Not their neighbors
Mmbear
Taking them would open up for Israel to say that they are harboring Hamas.
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
Arab countries don’t care about whatever angle that is
Toqom
Israel funded Hamas for years so Palestine couldn't get real legislators, Israel did all of this and Hamas attacked when Israel stopped giving them money. Israel is not Jewish, it's just evil covering itself with Jewish marks to hide it's love for evil. Religion just let's evil people work in the open
LongTimeCallerFirstTimeLurker
So much hate
chencking
There have not been any settlements in Gaza since before Hamas took power. Which is roughly two decades, not 55 years. You have a stark lack of knowledge of the region's history.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
The restriction in Palestinian movement by Israel is justified in part by the need to protect Israeli settlements. That is what I said, and it is not controversial. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement
daromander
Those settlements are legal settlements. They are inside Israel. Israel got almost all of the desert in the '47 UN deal. There is nothing illegal about them
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
They are most certainly not. Netanyahu's administration is constantly subsidizing and protecting new settlements in The West Bank. Palestinian land is stolen all the time. And Zionist militias almost immediately started taking land outside of the 47 deal as soon as Great Britain left the region. Since then vast swaths of land have been settled illegally, and protected by Israel. You're either ignorant or willfully ignorant to say there is no stolen land.
daromander
They don't need to isolate Gaza to protect their settlements in the West Bank. Can you read a map??? The places they have to protect from Hamas are the cities & towns near Gaza. The settlements in the West Bank are illegal but they have nothing to do with Gaza. Also what bullshit. Both sides attacked each other after the British left in '48. Both sides wanted more land than they were given. Both sides thought they were promised all of it by the British.
chencking
You handwavingly claimed that Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc. restrict Gazans to protect non-existent settlements in Gaza. You ignored that in reality, most countries in the region used to accept them into their countries, but changed policies after that led to Palestinian coups / terrorist movements. Moreover, you posted a link disagreeing with your own claim and handwaved it as not controversial. You clearly googled "Palestinian movement" without even bothering to read what you found.
daromander
There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel forcibly removed its citizens from Gaza in 2005, almost 20 years ago.
seriouslessly
I guess it depends on where you think Israel’s borders end…. Also, I’m not really sure you can use the term “forcibly” without understanding how “forcibly” Palestinians are removed from Palestinian lands… and how “forcibly” Israel ensures that “certain” Israelis occupy and remain on those lands…. Would you like to re-explain your point while also using the “legal” - and internationally agreed upon - borders?
BlindGardener
Yes Israel legally exists as a country within its space. The west bank is it’s own set of issues and that’s where the illegal settlement is happening, but israel as a whole is legal, proper, and a country. You can’t roll it back and ‘send the jews back to europe’
daromander
Some of the Israeli citizens in Gaza agreed to leave in 2005 but, there were plenty who didn't. People who wanted to stay in their homes. They were forcibly taken out of their homes by the police & the IDF. Israel's internationally recognized borders are the ones they had after the war in 1949. The settlements in the West Bank are not recognized. Israel has annexed the Golan Heights & East Jerusalem but they are also not recognized. The first two are illegal while the third is weird due to (1)
daromander
(2) the UN plan & its failure with Jerusalem becoming an international city. I don't know if it's illegal to annex part of an international city that never actually existed
seriouslessly
Without me correcting anything yet, I’d like to first bring attention to your deeper understanding of the situation as many don’t even go that far to look into a situation they’ve already deemed “understood”; however I bet I can guess where you’re acquiring this information… maybe I can ask a question to see if you spot it too. Do you think there might be a problem with how you stated the process in which these Gazan settlers vacated “their” homes? Then maybe the rest will become more apparent?
daromander
Did you guess a college history class? There was a small Jewish community in Gaza for hundreds of years until they were kicked out in the war in '48. When Israel took control of Gaza in '67 those settlements returned until the disengagement in 2005. It was illegal for Israel to have those settlements rebuilt after '67 but it was also illegal to kick the Jewish people out of Gaza in '48. Which illegal wins?