theobituator
9860
428
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I think it undermines the very notion of democracy, to not vote for what you actually want, but we can't risk Poilievre becoming prime minister...
First time MV! Thanks for all the brilliant responses.
Just found my riding is neck and neck. I know what I have to do.
Stay strong, Canada!
PuzzledCompletely
You take the bus that gets you closest to your destination. Sometimes you need to take a transfer.
smoldix42069
I agree! I'm advance voting this weekend!
RibbleTPibits
A candidate is a bus, not a car. They won’t take you exactly where you want to go… so pick the one that gets you as close as possible.
NairouTryyshokk
RIGHT?! Im typically behind the NDP all the way here in AB, but im thinking of voting liberal just to try and give that little bit extra to hopefully not have to deal with even more conservitive bs.
AndersCalrissian
Check anyways, strategicvoting.ca
crateo
You are solely mistaken. Democracy means that you are allowed to participate in the governance of your community. This means that if you feel that your political views are not represented, you have the right of presenting your candidature to the voters.
What you are not entitled to is to have other people fulfill your vision. In that case you need to compromise, allowing the "good enough" political platform to implement at least part of what you want.
pr3viso
You can't always get what you want, you get what you need
Bonesy84
Well the people wanted to get rid of first past the post in favour of ranked ballot and proportional representation, but fucking Trudeau killed that because it wasn’t the version he wanted. Ranked ballot means no more strategic votes and every vote actually counts. But we can’t have that or the current big parties will lose massive amounts of power.
massdefect3
Same here. I would like to vote NDP, but they only have like 5% of the vote because we’re all dumb. So, I guess it’s Liberal to preserve my rights and everyone else’s.
kerms
A vote is not a love letter.
PerthAussieMike
The way I have always looked at exercising my right to vote, even if I am unsure of whom to vote FOR, there's always someone I want to vote AGAINST.
silentpat
For those considering Strategic Voting - remember to look at local polling and not just federal. Liberals are not ahead in all ridings. NDP are ahead in some ridings, don't want to split their vote either.
theobituator
Excellent point!
iRegretThisUsernameAlready
This! Check your riding at https://smartvoting.ca/
CorvidPrime
I am philosophically opposed to violence… but there are exceptions.
SergeyPrkl
me too. Surgical, clean, painless, fast, without vengeance removing some individuals in dire situations is accepted. But the desicion have to come from the people. For the people.
PoliticalWanderer
Ranked Choice Voting sounds like it would be great for Canada...
Xenarion
It would, but strangely, the parties that promise it never do it when they gain power.
theobituator
Strangely, even though the centerist Liberals would likely be the greatest beneficiaries of it...
bewareofgoose
I hate that we have to vote against and not vote for. It's always between a douche and a turd but this time the turd is also a combative, divisive, misogynistic and racist. I've never been afraid, only uninterested. I always vote but it feels like the most important of my life.
meme2zombie
I really hate how "douche and turd sandwich" analogy is always presented as both equally bad. As if a cleaning product that isn't the healthiest if used too much is anywhere near eating actual shit.
bewareofgoose
I'm sure that it was never the intention that the literal object be the representation. Just a douche.
ph2544
Ranked Choice Voting, a plan for the future.
Xenarion
Yeah, a reform of the voting system, like the Liberal party has been promising for over a decade...
iRegretThisUsernameAlready
Being against strategic voting is a stance you can afford when all likely parties are equally bad. But that is far from the case currently, and stubbornly voting for a party that can’t win in your riding is literally supporting fascism. Perfect is the enemy of good, and we’ve got something real fucking bad coming if we don’t figure this out. I wish the left-wing parties themselves could fucking see it and not run against each other in predictable ridings.
https://smartvoting.ca/
theobituator
Great points!
RetrogradeLlama
Upvote, I think?
akafluffy
Yeah, if only JT had delivered on the proportional representation he campaigned on, we would be able to actually vote for what we want, but he got cold feet, so we get a real chance of diet fascism.
mrbadxampl
don't take it so lightly, look what just happened down here to your immediate south...
ItawtItawApuddyTat
where 9M liberals "strategically" stayed home. Vote like your live depends on it. Because it does.
kitchendaddy
PP slogan is “Canada First” which straight out of Trump’s racist playbook with its roots in white supremacy
onlyhalfghost
"Canada First, until someone offers me a wooden nickle to make that Canada Fiftyfirst"
psmith00
a lot of PP playbook is basically a copy of Trump's. if he gets control of Canada he'll turn the country over to the Project 2025 people not as a 51st state (which wouldn't happen it would have to be more like 13 more states and the associated congress and senate seats. ) but as a non-voting protectorate with no rights in the American government.
reurra
Canada would be made into territories with no ability to vote and no say in what happens to the population.
lopix
But you ARE voting for what you want. You want PP not to be PM. A vote against is as good as a vote for.
theobituator
Disagree. I believe the climate crisis is an existential threat and must be addressed immediately. But a Green vote in FPTP is next to useless.
meme2zombie
Right so the only way to get closest to addressing it is with a strategic vote to make sure that the cons don't get in and make it worse.
theobituator
Still not direct action on climate issues.
meme2zombie
No party is doing that, not even the greens. You need to push for that outside of voting.
CrisprCAS
If you have first past the post elections, strategic voting is the only option.
Mechwarrior719
As an American liberal, I’m hoping trump is the best thing that happened to Canadian liberals.
Hurch
I just hope the whole world learns from our mistakes. In the meantime, I've lost all respect for American voters.
LjubljanaJeNajlepseMestoNaSvetu
Mechwarrior719
So you’re admitting what republicans are doing is fascism?
manymadmasks
I believe the implication is that "liberals are centrists, and don't actually do anything meaningful to stop the right."
throwawaygizmo
It looks like that is the case. Though, as they say, the only poll that matters is election day.
CptCronos
Honestly part of it was PP could have kept his lead if he'd had any actual talking points, or tried, it's hilarious how bad he botched it.
nesurame
you say that, but the current US president did not utter a coherent sentence during his whole campaign
Forensickle
It has almost definitely switched the Australian election in 2 weeks from a certain right wing win, to a likely centre left win, or with actual left parties having the balance of power. In Feb our right wing party announced a DOGE, copied some other MAGA policies, and said "make Australia great again", and everyday something happens in the US their numbers go down... To the point where the right wing leader might lose his seat even if his party wins
Hexidimentional
Quebec is polling liberal dude, trump has completely upended our politics.
paulbloface
I wish the Liberals (big "L" as in the Liberal Party of Canada) were actually more liberal. But they're what we have.
Forensickle
Come to Australia, where our (big L) Liberal party is the actual right wing party. (They were originally social little l liberal in the 40s, by the standards of the 40s at least)
theworldcouldbeflat
Not really conservatives don't ever win really after Republicans do, the only time it happened in the last 100 years was in the 80's when they did the whole voting with God con.
wargames
trump is so toxic the entire anglosphere is making a left turn.
onlyhalfghost
the British have missed the memo, and conservatives everywhere went fash as soon as he got elected
Xenarion
Yes and no. Trump's rise also brought a rise of far-right in Canada. What we're seeing, the Conservative going from leading to a close fight is still worse than their previous "not a chance" situation from before.
Rongeong
What trump did for the rest of the world is show how horrid conservatives with power are. Every country's (yes the ones in YOUR country whoever happens to read this comment) conservatives would do this if given the chance. It's not that trump and the repubs are more toxic than tories or the cpc, it's that they have the power to actually do the evil things they want. People are picking up on that fighting in their own countries where they can.
Dekker3D
It's just a reminder, because people tend to forget in... well, it's been pretty much exactly 80 years by now, isn't it?
TatsuyaSuou
Watching the UK say sex is binary — it's not — and claiming transwomen are not women has me pretty sure that that's not quite true right now, unfortunately.
aviselafin211
Didn't the Liberal leader, Mark Carney, say there are only two genders? Hardly a progressive position for a liberal. Good grief, couldn't the LPC find a more suitable candidate than an ex wall street banker, Goldman Sachs financier, multi millionnaire whose company, Brookfield Asset Mgmt, is poised to make millions from his housing policy BCH?
SquashDemon
Good.
Rainbowdaesh
Voting is like sex.
If you don't lower your standards you're just going to end up bitter and alone.
theobituator
Not my point. I would vote green, but in our system, at this time, it would amount to throwing my vote away, and increasing the chances of a conservative win. Not a lowering of standards...
ontarioOT
Also, never do it with fascists.
Rainbowdaesh
There are of course exceptions to every rule. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/nazi-germany-dutch-resistance-freddie-truus-oversteegen-hannie-schaft-a9188306.html
phobosorbust
sounds like they kept up the rule by shooting them before any sex happened...
angelyric
Being pragmatic in an imperfect situation is nothing to feel bad about. No democracy on the planet is "perfect" in its representation of the will of its people (I would argue that it is impossible to be), but expressing your will through your vote is *almost* always worthwhile.
You may not entirely agree with your candidate, but democratic elections and governance are sadly less about ideals and more about incremental progress (or resisting regression, as the case may be).
varesya
Just because you vote for the lesser evil one time doesn't mean you're giving up your right to keep pushing to make things better. And oftentimes in politics, you may be better off voting for someone who partly agrees with you rather than letting someone you completely disagree with win, because if the moderate can't win against the right, the signal that sends is that voters prefer the right - not that voters would rather have the left.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
I had a former friend telling me yesterday "If the Dems want MY vote, they'd better blah blah blah" and I replied "voting against fascism isn't good enough for you? Losing ROE wasn't good enough for you?" And he replied "It was Obama's fault!" So I said "What law could Obama have passed that a bad faith SCOTUS couldn't overturn?" and he told me to fuck off I just don't know what I'm talking about.
hamburgerhands
Happy to hear they're a former friend! They sound like a cunt hahaha
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Yeah I'm pretty furious at them for being so far up their own ass. Republicans have gone full fascist and those clowns are still imparting purity tests on the Democrats.
mithiwithi
It's actually mathematically proven that no system can be "perfect", for a reasonably sensible definition of "perfect". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow's_impossibility_theorem
SergeyPrkl
And lets remember that USA is not a democratic state or society.
Sdogofdoom
If ranked choice voting were available in the US, i would be all for people voting for their preferred candidate. But sadly, its either a fascist or a sub-optimal pick.
aviselafin211
Ranked ballots was one of the proposed ideas that the Liberal party under Trudeau were looking at as part of his "promise" for electoral reform. The Liberals quickly dropped this once the parliamentary committee, with a liberal chair and majority of Liberal committee members, decided against the reforms when their studies showed a marked decline in potential electoral victories for Liberals.
Sdogofdoom
From what I'm seeing, they didn't go with it because something like 85% of Canadians were against it.
aviselafin211
I would argue against that characterization of the events. The first reason is that this was never presented to Canadians in a format that was easy to understand. They never had the chance to weigh in on the how, when, and why the changes were needed, only that "the 2015 election would be the last FPTP style. Barely a year later, 01 Dec 2016, the parliamentary committee presented their finding to parliament for a vote. Every single liberal but two voted against their own findings.
theobituator
Who is down voting these replies? Historical revisionist Liberals?
DirtRockets
We gotta get rid of First Past the Post and institute some form of ranked ballot. I'd vote NDP over Liberal, but I'll vote Liberal over Conservative, and fuck me I'll vote Conservative over Bernier's People's Party bullshit.
aviselafin211
We had a chance to do just that with Trudeau's electoral reform promise. When the parliamentary committee did the investigatory work into the implications, the committee (with a liberal party chair and majority of members) decided against reforms. They did so because FPTP and proportional rep or ranked ballots all showed far fewer Liberal majority wins as a consequence. Hardly democratic.
DirtRockets
Correct. They had agreed to it with the NDP and abandoned it almost instantly.
aviselafin211
Not quite right. The parliamentary committee (liberal dominated and with a liberal chair) had all come to the conclusion that FPTP wasn't good and presented the Liberal government with a plan agreed upon by all parties in the committee. This plan was put to a vote the same day. The entire Trudeau Liberal party, except 2 MPs, voted against the proposition. The Conservatives, the Bloc, the NDP and the Green voted for it. The majority Liberals defeated our one chance at electoral reform.
BigJT
I'd prefer Mixed Member Proportional Representation to Ranked Ballot, but FPTP definitely needs to go.
CanadianCobraChicken
SAME. I'm usually hard NDP, and swore I would never be a strategic voter. At least Carney seems likeable. Bonus points that he pisses Trump off
aviselafin211
Trump seems to like him. At least enough to say that he prefers a Canadian government under the Liberals and Carney. Curious.
theobituator
Yeah, Green here, used to be NDP. Can't risk splitting the progressive vote.
meme2zombie
Heh, I used to be Green but the NDP had a better environmental policy but yeah now I'm "whatever prevents the cons from taking power".
Thresholdpush
I'm voting against that slimy fuck on Saturday.
theobituator
Right on guys!
CptCronos
Same!
Thresholdpush
Down with lil PP! https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ZG1lbThoMWE1aTJ4aGdwZWxhcng5Y3FodnR2OTl6anE1eDZrbDhheSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/11sBLVxNs7v6WA/200w.webp
smoldix42069
Same. Advance voting wooooo!
Thresholdpush
Awesome! I only have to travel about 500m from home to do it. https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1dzNuenlkaDdkNzdwbmZydDJrMHJmeTJscGYyNWM3cGRlbDlzcXd1ZCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/L8fDFwp8FDHeZ5ull0/200w.webp
smoldix42069
500 m? Lucky.
Sorrontis
For early vote, its 1.5km for me, but on Monday, it's just next door. Excited!
Thresholdpush
Excellent! I've never been this excited to vote. https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1ZWkwZGVpdGh4dnJnemJleDFyNjNmem1wN2dkZ2V2OTU3Z21uOXpwOCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/T1D5pEQhFuNZwQrYOr/200w.webp
Sorrontis
I'm always excited for voting. Democracy rocks! Sure, I rarely get what I want because of the district I'm in. But I will participate, damn you!
eion85
Well, what I most want is to keep fascists from winning.
I want that more than I want my ideal candidate to win.
That's why I voted for Harris, despite her being far from my ideal, and I suspect that's why you're voting the way you are.
Mgxr44
Joe Biden is a fascist my guy. That’s the part liberals don’t get. You don’t get to deport more people than Trump, commit a genocide, destroy the environment, sign an anti trans bill, and be pro police state and not be a fascist
eion85
He's a corporatist conservative Liberal, but fascism requires a dismissal of the rule of law on a scale we're now seeing with Trump.
Liberalism is a conservative ideology, but not all conservatives are fascists.
Trump and Biden just aren't comparable, and I hope you know that.
Mgxr44
They really truly are comparable. Sure, they aren’t the exact same, but they’re right next to each other my guy. But you tell me how many of these apply to Trump but not Biden https://osbcontent.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/PC-00466.pdf
eion85
"my guy" is just patronizing and I have no interest in jumping through hoops for you.
CerisCinderwolf
Always vote with your ideals and heart.
That's not to say that there aren't shitty people out there that hate others and are selfish. There's a reason that shitheels like neo-Nazis and fascists south of the border are endorsing/sending their approval to tiny PP up here.
While he is a shitty individual, he's a culmination of what the Conservative Party here in Canada stands for. There may be "nice conservative people" that smile at you and shake your hand all the same but supporting a party 1/2
eion85
One of my ideals is I REALLY don't want fascists to gain power, and allying with people I may agree with in some things when there's something even MORE important and urgent we agree on.
CerisCinderwolf
Oh 100% I'm with you there.
theobituator
Secular Amen
CerisCinderwolf
that actively reverses protections for land and wilderness, works against LGBTQIA+, being on the "anti-woke bandwagon" in general is a sign of a shitty person. 2/2
dynamojoe
Yup. I vote my heart in the primaries and my team in the general.
StOfKillers
I agree, but team is a little strong. I vote against the fascist.
eion85
Same same
LjubljanaJeNajlepseMestoNaSvetu
eion85
Not a Liberal, so not really an effective insult to me.
I'd still pick Churchill over Hitler, and Churchill was fucking awful.
SinStar87
If only leftists could make leftist policy at all appealing to the majority more than liberal policy. Wild to me that leftists are so inept that we can't sell even the basics of 'feeding people is good'.
LjubljanaJeNajlepseMestoNaSvetu
Libs are not leftists
SinStar87
Mhmm,who said they were? I said libs are popular where leftists aren't. despite leftist policy being so good for voters, thus liberal democracies. No idea why leftists can't sell voters on them.
eion85
Last time I checked, Social Security, an absolutely leftist program, was highly popular.
SinStar87
liberalized left policy corrupted by capitalist sensibilities, core program still requires work credits so if you don't work you're fucked out of the medicare. And not wild to you that it's likely to get killed in just 100 years? Never mind food rights, universal healthcare, public housing; just decommodified basic necessities, we as a group can't sell these policies to the general populace for popular support and offices. Woeful.
eion85
Yeah, you don't seem like a leftist I want to work with. You don't seem like you're interested in building on good things to make better things.
Sorry, fellow leftist, I like working with people with a better mindset on how to effect change.
I'm not going to get into another leftist infight with you. I'm just walking away.
Arbitrarynamehere
There are no leftists in the US government
SinStar87
Because voters don't vote for them? Like I said, wild that even basic leftist policy can't get popularized by leftist to get leftists in government. How bad at marketing are we that 'feeding people is good' isn't a winning platform for offices.
Arbitrarynamehere
It is a winning platform. Weird that Dems don't run on it more often. Must be some reason for that
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
As an American leftist, "strategic voting" would have saved us in more than one election. "Voting for lesser evil is still evil" is a slogan perpetuated by Big Evil to get you to buy more Evil. And it fucking works.
Mgxr44
Joe Biden literally deported more people than Trump, leased more oil permits than Trump, was committing a genocide, signed and anti trans law, and grew the police state. He’s a fascist
Mgxr44
That’s silly. I’m not doubting you’re a leftist, but I am doubting how long you’ve been paying attention. The Dems use “lesser evil” and all that other bs to slide farther right every chance they get
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Republicans overturned Roe. Their bullshit literally started with Nixon. What would it take for you to admit that they should face some accountability?
Mgxr44
I %100 agree they should face accountability, why do THE DEMOCRATS think they don’t? Biden could’ve arrested Trump DAY ONE, and didn’t. Obama promised to go after the torturers and the administration and didn’t! Regan’s entire administration should’ve been shot for contra. WHY DONT DEMS AGREE?
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Oh look, more "but the Dems!"
Mgxr44
Do have any actual arguments? Or just whining
SergeyPrkl
how do you think you are leftist? Are you leftist in american standards or global? Because the american leftists tends to be moderate right or center at best in global standards.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
I think billionaires should be illegal, for one. I also think we should have a maximum wage based off the minimum wage, and we should have Universal Basic Income, health care for all, and due process, which is apparently a radical leftist concept these days.
SergeyPrkl
Sounds lot like Social democratism. Nordic ways basically. Except there is no hinder to be a billionaire. Few are, and they tend to be the nice guys, like Ikea founder Kamprads Or Kone/Otis elevator companys Herlins. They are by their political view leftists and are paying taxes accordingly and wants to pay taxes even speaking for it so the society benefits from it better so that nobody lives in misery.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Yeah I'm to their left, lol.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Like, Hillary Clinton's SCOTUS picks wouldn't have overturned Roe, or given Trump a blank check, and these morons STILL INSIST she was no better than Trump! How bad do Republicans have to get before these assholes will hold them accountable instead of blaming Democrats? Republicans attack us, they blame Democrats for not saving them. It's abuse enabling. Downright masochistic.
Mgxr44
How bad do Dems have to get before you realize they’re fascist too my guy? They deport more people than the Rs, they’re pro police and surveillance state, they were just committing a genocide, they signed an anti trans law in December. Like what do they have to do for you to see them for what they are?
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
We both know you're just going to keep crying "but the Dems! but the Dems!" like a partisan Chicken Little. I married my husband in 2015 when the Dems helped legalize gay marriage. I'm going to lose that marriage when this SCOTUS overturns Obergefell. And that's when clods like you will show up to cluck "Biden should have codified it!" like you did about Obama when Roe was overturned. You're a partisan and/or a fool.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Never mind that it's literally SCOTUS' job to decide what laws are constitutional and which ones aren't. Never mind they ruled on Roe "The federal government can not legislate this". There's no law they could have written that could overcome that but you don't care. There is nothing Republicans can do that you won't blame Dems for in your little partisan crusade. If you aren't a bot, you don't give a crap about Ukrainians, Palestinians, women, or minorities. You want to be right.
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
I literally say this stuff to get clowns like you to show up. Now explain to me how Hillary Clinton's SCOTUS picks would have overturned Roe of given Trump a blank check. Or just show us you're a bot. Whichevs.
Mgxr44
So if you’re ok with gay marriage, therefore you can be fascist? They haven’t overturned it yet, does that mean they aren’t fascist yet? What kind of terrible logic is that?
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
Answer the question or just admit you're a bot.
Mgxr44
Do you know the story of Libya? Hilary, as sec of state, LIES us into a war by telling us gaddafi is giving his soldiers viagra so they can rape the civilians more. So we bombed one of the most prosperous nations in Africa back to the Stone Age. Now, there’s an open slave trade and you can BUY A HUMAN for $13. Don’t fucking tell me these people aren’t fascists
icantbelieveistillhavetoprotestthiscrap
I KNEW you were going to say "buh buh buh the Dems" and you did not disappoint. Thank you.