ManKorn
39828
1357
44
I was a Tank Commander
I recently did a post clearing up some questions people had about Tanks and Armored Warfare. A lot of people wanted to know about gunnery, so here we are.
The Internet is Full of Lies
I've seen a lot of nonsense about tanks on Imgur lately, so I figured I'd try to clear things up.
What Makes Tanks So Awesome?
The modern day Main Battle Tank is a combination of incredible (and classified) armor, near-perfect electronics (which break all the time), and a main gun that puts everything else to shame.
Note that some countries put bigger guns on their tanks. Considering they can't hit for shit, the bigger boom doesn't matter. 120mm gets the job done every time.
This is NOT a tank
I have also trained on an M2A2 Bradley. It is NOT a tank. It is a PC, or Personnel Carrier. Yes, there are some sexy variants with TOW missiles and FLIRs, but mostly it is a lightly-armored school bus to get the crunches into the fight.
Who Am I to Talk
Aside from being a tanker, I had the honor to command an Armor Company for 3 years. They were easily the best years of my military career.
What's a Tank Shoot?
Tanks have several weapon systems. It has a .50 Commander's Weapon Station (big ass machine-gun); two 240C machine-guns, including one slaved to the turret; and of course, the M256 120mm Smooth Bore cannon.
The main gun shoots 120mm rounds, and there are many varieties. This bad boy is a rubber simulator for a SABOT (think a lawn dart made of radioactive metal).
Loaders
Some countries have started to use auto-loader systems in their tanks. They jam often, and can be slow. We train to load a new round in under 7 seconds.
Why 7? The Russian T-90 has an auto-loader that works in 8.
Tanks are Big
The M1A1 Abrams (pictured) is a beast. It fits a crew of 4 (not comfortably): Commander, Loader, Gunner, and Driver.
A tank provides a fast and surprisingly maneuverable way to cross and dominate the battlefield. When out in the field, crews eat, sleep, and train on their tank. Yes, you can get down to use the bathroom.
Sleeping on the tank is surprisingly comfy.
Tank Names
Depending on who you ask, different crew members get to name the tank. This can only be done AFTER the crew has completed a successful tank gunnery (weapons qualification on a huge scale).
I've been raised to name tanks this way: If you are Company C, then all of your tanks get a C name.
Tread Lightly
The M1A1 uses a 1500hp turbine engine. It sounds like a jet on start-up, and it can haul some serious ass. That said, it can't go everywhere.
Tanks roll on Roller Wheels, which in turn roll on tracks. These are giant metal rubber-bands, and they can slip off. When that happens, cancel your plans for the day.
They can be put back on, but it sucks. A lot.
More Questions?
Yes, there are more ammunition types that I am leaving off, mostly because I don't know if they are unclassified yet and I'm not taking that risk.
If you do have more questions, ask me anything.
uberwolfe
Awesome stuff mate, thanks for posting.
ManKorn
Any time.
HPTradecraft
A Bradley is not a personnel carrier, it's an infantry fighting vehicle (IFV).
ManKorn
Maybe for you. For me, it's, "Gunner, HEAT, PC."
mikeymike
"IDENTIFIED" "UP!" "FIRE" "ON THE WAY"
KittenPuppy114
Informational posts like this from people who live it is why I love imgur. Great post OP. Respect.
ManKorn
Thank you
CorporalMercy
It's always motivating as hell to see the big boys rolling by, well done Sir
ManKorn
Appreciated.
Arnoski
Definitely enjoyed this read. A cousin of mine was a tanker as well. Very cool
ManKorn
Thanks!
TofuRabbit
Had a bud of mine who did tank training (Swiss army), all he talked about was how much money in shells they shot every week lol.
ManKorn
Yeah, those things ain't cheap.
GottaStopSigningOutBecauseIForgeMyLogin
What's the top speed a tank can get? What would happen if you had a crash up derby, but all the vehicles were tanks?
ManKorn
I've gotten to 50kph, she can go faster. Demo derby? We'd all die. No seat belts.
BangForTheBuck
I used to play battlezone on atari
ManKorn
It's pretty close to that!
rustylongsword
I played scorched earth on dos
damnedsyncro
Great. Now I want to try find a copy that'll work in Win8.
rustylongsword
Use Linux os and dosbox software. Both are free and open source and you can run old dos games. I have over 200.
CassiusFaux
@OP How many times have you had to replace the track/tracks on your tank? From damage or just general malfunction?
ManKorn
Replace? Not often. Pads get swapped every now and then, but tracks are tough. Repair? Depends on how hard we train. Monthly at times.
CassiusFaux
Hmm, whats the average "life" of the track pads?
ManKorn
On bad terrain, a couple of weeks. Good terrain, 6-12 months. If you hit a big rock or an IED, probably just a day.
IButtIntoRandomComments
How much fun was the reactive armor when you got hit @op?
ManKorn
Not from personal experience, but I hear it works like a goddamn charm. Rings your bell a bit on the inside.
yourmotherandIthinkyoushouldmoveout
I'm just glad this isn't a post about combat engineers.
ManKorn
I used to joke about those guys too, but they can be some bad asses when the situation calls for it.
priestfoxley
yeah, IED suck.
lookslikeipickedthewrongweektoquitsniffingglue
Wow. Thank you for the great post and for your service. Any thoughts on the new Russian T-14?
ManKorn
It's not garbage, but it certainly is garbage adjacent. The next gen will be something else though.
Memologist
Well I play world of tanks! So there's that!
Astatinia
Togga togga togga togga choo choooo!
burrbeck
What's the best / funniest tank name you've seen?
SwarmLord
Tanky McTankface
ManKorn
Casting Couch
ionlymakethisstufftoimpressyourmum
Brilliant!
TheMovieGalaxyQuest
Damn, that's even better than the Chubby Chaser.
ManKorn
We had one called "Chunky Girl," and she always rolled in front of Chubby Chaser.
TheMovieGalaxyQuest
Love this kind of humor. My granduncle called his Tiger his lady, had to abandon her deep in Russia. Then it almost smashed him by 1/2
TheMovieGalaxyQuest
falling down a canyon and he just laughed saying she wanted to hug him goodbye. 2/2
austinjrex
@OP I'm a long range shooter, do you happen to know the average muzzle velocity, weight, and ballistic coefficient of your projectiles?
ManKorn
Not a Master Gunner, so a lot of that is over my head. A lot of that is available online though.
jdcoolha
What about the airspeed of an unladen swallow?
ManKorn
African or European?
aceoaces
Is a tank still serviceable after a hit like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SIBSGel314
ManKorn
Yes
Semni
And the crew?
ManKorn
Quite possibly. They won't be tap dancing away, but they can survive without permanent injury.
B4Ctom1
Have you ever seen a CROWS that did not have
painted on it?
ManKorn
Yes, but those guys weren't even trying.
HitlersArtCritic
@OP scariest experience on the job.
ManKorn
Several near rollovers, nearly getting run over (twice), and sitting with a smoking round for five minutes. Pucker factor 4.
HitlersArtCritic
You or the tank getting run over?
ManKorn
Me. That tank don't fear nothin'. Abrams have a pretty large gap underneath, so you just fall down and pray the driver goes straight.
HitlersArtCritic
Could you potentially board a tank or at least hang on if you open up the bottom hatch?
ManKorn
Abrams don't have the bottom hatch. That's the M60. Hatches are normally combat locked from the inside.
BlackDeath1511
Favourite WWII tank? Mine is StuG III G
BlackDeath1511
Yes I know it's not a tank but it's good enough for me
ManKorn
The Panther is terrifying, but the Sherman won the day by being versatile.
BlackDeath1511
Cough cough - the Americans could just build more of them -
ManKorn
Haven't we learned anything from the Zerg? Swarming works.
BlackDeath1511
Lol - true tho
Arcanus01134
What's the most gut-wrenching moment you've ever had OUTSIDE of combat while in the tank division?
ManKorn
Speeding downhill, toward a cliff, driver fell asleep.
spectre2
Okay, how often do loaders get repetitive stress injuries from that twisting?
ManKorn
Oh, that's the last injury we worry about. But it does happen.
HitlersArtCritic
What DO they worry about?
ManKorn
Losing fingers. There are many places in a turret that like to "bite" tankers.
JacobHardy64
I've heard that autoloaders have been the cause of tankers losing fingers, hands, and arms. How accurate is that?
ManKorn
Very. There are videos online. Many places to lose a digit.
HitlersArtCritic
They teach you how to not lose them right?
ManKorn
I mean, it's more art than science.
armoredfist
As a former 19D I don't want to hear any hate on my M2A3V3 Bradley Cavalry Fighting vehicle. M'kay.
ManKorn
I'll let you have it. I just prefer the M1 series.
armoredfist
I mean who wouldn't like 120mm and 64 tons of "fuck everything in that general directions". Im a fan of my swiss army knife tank.
ManKorn
Amen.
TheBananaTrain
As a tanker, what's your thought on the RPG 29?
v
Toldavf
Tanks have always been at their most vulnerable in cities. Those hand held shaped charges will ruin your day unless you have reactive armour
TofuRabbit
Holy shit.
DoDucHuy
Iirc there was an explosion of the autoloader of the t72 in Czech Slovakia. Took out many tanks nearby. And the t80 in the Chechnya conflict
Thejamesconner
He ded.
jdis0351
An rpg did that? It looks like they fired the main gun. I'm not a tanker I'm just asking. Maybe over pressure from the rpg inside the tank?
ThermoNuke
Likely the cannon breach was open when it took the hit and pressure vented out the barrel.
jdis0351
That makes sense.
ManKorn
That's Syrian armor taking a top shot. Those tanks are paper thin (comparatively) on top. Catastrophic at that range.
SucksToSuckNerd
Most tanks are pretty thin on the top, are they not? Isn't that what makes the Javelin such an effective round?
ManKorn
The Javelin is a goddamn marvel of engineering, so "thin" becomes relative. Different tanks put armor in different places.
Alighierian
well, there is 'thin' and 'Ican'tbelieveitactuallystopsrainandsunlight-thin'
TheBananaTrain
T72 has joke armor. But the RPG-29 isn't a joke either it's been known to punch through the frontal armor of a Challenger II tank.
SucksToSuckNerd
Reactive armor? DU? What are we talking here? Also what type of warhead does the RPG have? Lots of variables.
TheBananaTrain
Tank had ERA armor (info limited 4 good reason), I would assume it was the Tandem-charged warhead. Designed to pen reactive+ 0.6m of RHA.
Disto
The underbelly. The response to that was to slap on a giant piece of armour. I believe the driver lost a few toes but drove home.
TheBananaTrain
Ahh k, so it was a flaw in the armoring. That explains why I couldn't find much info on what happened. They waited till it was fixed.
chesspudd
As far as I am aware, no Challenger 2 has ever been permanently disable in combat, except one, by another Challenger 2.
chesspudd
Some unarmoured tanks have been hit by IEDs and RPG 29 while partly armoured, but were put back into service later.
HypersonicHero
Yah I have no idea what you're talking about, no Challenger II has been shot out by an enemy RPG to the face.
MajorAidan
Nothing has ever got through the front of a Chally 2. One challenger managed to take out another by shooting in the side several times.
MajorAidan
While the unarmoured floor got penned by an IED on another. Only two ever disabled.
Shrimp24
@OP serious question for you. What do you think of the T-90?
ManKorn
Russia makes a good tank, but the T-90 is a stop gap and they don't have the money or tech for what comes next.
BlackDeath1511
How about the Leo2A7?
ManKorn
The Leo is a beautiful machine and ze Germans did a great job designing it. I wouldn't want to go head to head, but we'd win in the end.
Shrimp24
I would love some elaboration. The ERA armor is highly successful and the ARENA defense system is capable of intercepting missles
Shrimp24
That and Shtora
ManKorn
It is much more dangerous to NATO tanks, but is less accurate at range. We can hammer nails at 3000m.
ManKorn
Their armor is modular, so stuff changes from variant to variant. Reactive armor is cool, but you can watch Syrian tanks lose with it.
delpharseven
I've heard the earlier Russian autoloaders had a nasty habit of occasionally trying to load parts of crewmen.
SucksToSuckNerd
According to the Marine tankers they can hand old shells at least as fast as Russain auto loaders. Part of their doctrine.
delpharseven
Autoloaders are more about saving space than speed. Me, I'd rather have a human who won't try to stuff my arm into the breach.
SSColonelHansLanda
In mother Russia, tanks fire you
delpharseven
Deathtraps, like pretty much everything Russia builds.
ManKorn
Yup
TEMPORARYDAVE
So what is the SoP if you are in combat and the tread is hosed (I.e. comes off or is completely destroyed)
bippityboppitybuttsex
Attempt recovery (M88 or a Grizzly), if not available, thermite.
ManKorn
Or drag it home with a wing tank.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, reduce combat power by 2... turn the crew into riflemen and the tank into a pyre.
ManKorn
A burnt tank is a nightmare in paperwork. Better to get it home and fix it.
bippityboppitybuttsex
That is the BMO's problem... just write if off as a combat loss and CM
ManKorn
You roll as a platoon (4 tanks), so they provide cover and you fix it. Worst case, thermite, but that's a last resort.
OnePunnyGuy
Do you believe that tanks have a place in future military warfare?
ManKorn
Absolutely. Air can only do so much for so long, and it is vulnerable from ADA. Tanks still matter, still make a difference.
MrBananaBeak
Active Air Force here to confirm. There are some places planes can't deal with. Tanks and infantry can.
Ustrello
Tank lives matter
fivecharacters
How about drones? Military aviation will soon be on the chopping block for replacement with them, how about tank drones?
ManKorn
Air drones work because the view is similar, so control is similar. A tank requires 360 degrees of observation. Would be hard to design.
fivecharacters
Think autonomous drone, hunter-killer type design. IF they could IFF properly, and find and shoot enemy tanks, that'd be a huge benefit, no?
ManKorn
That's what it will say on your grave after the robots overthrow humanity.
SucksToSuckNerd
I'd rather be walking do MOUT with tank support than air support, just saying.
bippityboppitybuttsex
11B here, why do you guys call us crunchies... it seems mean.
ordohereticusinquisitor
Because POGs will be POGs. Besides nothing they say will suck more than going out in the field and living the Infantry life.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Not true. I once had to clean the frozen mudd from the inside roadwheels of an M113 during an ice storm at a washrack... that was worse.
coffeecandlepen
92Y here. Why do you guys have to have a blue string to make you feel special?
bippityboppitybuttsex
Cuz we are special... the entire US military exists to support the infantry... until you have a guy with a rifle on it, it ain't yours
farmerthejohn
It's nicer than bullet sponge.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I thought, at one point, that I coined Bulletsponge for 11B... thought Bang Bang was dumb
farmerthejohn
lol, we were picked on in my unit for being 19Ks, Stryker units only had ATGMs so technically I'm not a real Tanker because no Tank Table 8.
bippityboppitybuttsex
We didn't have Strykers... just M113A2s and BMP guns (Oxygen and Methane guns with spark plugs)
SucksToSuckNerd
0311s in the Marines are called the same thing. Unlike weapons Marines, they just get in the way of the finer aspects of battle.
SucksToSuckNerd
And caught under tracks.
jdis0351
CAAT. The most agressive drive-by you can imagine. Plus missiles, c4 and 8 pissed off guys with rockets.
SucksToSuckNerd
While the rest of us hike, pissed off, with rockets.
jdis0351
Yeah, well, my air conditioner stopped working in southern Afghanistan in August. But then we got it fixed.
ToksSetool
Isn't a crunchie better than a SPUT (Self-Propelled Popup Target)? 11M here.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Never a fan of the Bradley... it seems underpowered and only carries 6 guys... I prefer my 113
ordohereticusinquisitor
11B here, what's an 11M?
ToksSetool
11M is mechanized infantry. At the time, it was in the Bradley.
ordohereticusinquisitor
Ah, makes sense, we're all 11B now though.
ManKorn
I love you, Queen of Battle, but you do make a particular noise under a track.
BenRuppert
I was 12B. Heavy. We had Brad's, ACEs, and ABVs (Abrams with MicLic). So we crunchy too? And what about Cav?
ManKorn
Crunchy really refers to light infantry. Could apply to Scouts, but mostly heard it for the 11 series guys.
SucksToSuckNerd
I love that phrase. My brother was 13B, Kings of Battle.
ManKorn
Nice. Lotta love for FA.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I am old 11B... ran M113A2s as OPFOR in Hohenfels in the 1990s... you guys were evil BlueFor
ManKorn
I loved my medics' 113. Best place to catch five minutes of sleep between missions.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I spent my 20s asleep in that driver's hatch... but the tankers always had heat
ManKorn
Our heaters never worked at Knox, but they worked like a charm out at NTC (120 degree heat).
HRosso
I was just in a hohenfels rotation in April...
Surisuule
I'm so sorry.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I haven't been there since 1996... I am gonna bet money the OPFOR kicked your ass from here till tuesday
B4Ctom1
How many Abrams could one of your APFSDS rounds go through?
ManKorn
Probably 1. Abrams armor is thick. A T-72? That's a different story.
B4Ctom1
I read an Army paper once where an Abrams fired at an Iraqi tank during the gulf war (T-72?) and didn't know there were two and got both.
Thebuildingisonfireanditsnotmyfault
How different of a story?
ManKorn
It's not paper, but I've heard of rounds punching straight through the ammo rack and popping the top on those bad boys.
Thebuildingisonfireanditsnotmyfault
Final Question. If you had to fight in one historical tank in its historic war, which tank would you pick?
ManKorn
If fight in a Sherman alongside Patton any day.
aceoaces
I have so many questions! Can you do anything to save yourself from something like a Hellfire?
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
@OP I'm curious too!
piracer
Every once in a while I'm able to bring a jet or chopper down in my tank. I am pretty pro at bf4
ManKorn
Mostly, we have an Air Force that owns the sky over any battlefield.
aceoaces
Not that system which shoots down RPG's? Or pop smoke to defeat the laser? Or a system to mimic the laser and direct it elsewhere?
ManKorn
A good pilot knows how to use fire-and-forget. A Hind-D can chew through tanks without being bothered by smoke or jammers.
ManKorn
There are drills, there is prayer, and we have a main gun round that explodes midair to take out helicopters.
fivecharacters
No way. For real? Arma 3 needs an update.
ManKorn
Know that, against a chopper, a tank is most likely going to die. It is one of the worst threats to face.
fivecharacters
Sure, I mean I won't argue with you. Though; name one non-allied nation with any modern and effectibe chopper force projection ability (1)
fivecharacters
that could reasonably take out any significant number of US MBTs in a conventional warfare scenario. My guess is that list is real short.