WebMaka
172372
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As is tradition, I shall begin my tale of spending way, WAY too much time on a project with the finished product. I call it the "Internet Connection Informant," or simply "Informant" for short, because, well, that's what it is and does.
Pretty simple in appearance, but getting it to this point was a 16-month process. Yeah, I wasn't kidding about the "spending way, WAY too much time" part.
Also, making something simple to use is actually very hard.
But first, the backstory:
My cable broadband can't seem to decide whether to work perfectly or drop every few minutes. It'll work fine for months, and then seemingly out of nowhere it'll flake out intermittently for a few weeks at a time. Trying to get it fixed has led to the discovery that it's not even on my end at all - my connection gets all wonky whenever my broadband provider is doing work on their equipment. (One of the engineers assigned to my "case" discovered a correlation between head-end update/upgrade cycles and a spike in problem calls. Apparently I'm one of the lucky ones that experiences connection problems when they get to tinkering with their equipment. Yay.)
So, I wanted something to handle automatically restarting the modem and router. No big deal, they sell things on Amazon that do that. I then looked into said products on Amazon and good Lord do they suck. The basic ones are literally Arduinos with Ethernet hats and relay boards that ping 8.8.8.8 (Google's public DNS server) and toggle relays if a ping doesn't get through.
"I can do better," I thought.
So I cobbled together some goodies and built my own. And it turned out glorious. (Well, I think it did anyway.)
It does a simple ping test (against up to five targets) every 30 seconds, and a more comprehensive connection test every quarter-hour. Failing a test triggers a modem and router power-cycle and repeat test. Test results are recorded and recorded results are converted into charts, so I can actually SEE what my connection is doing. The magic black box also records modem and router response times and alerts me to the modem and/or router lagging, so I can see if it's my hardware that's throwing a tantrum.
The world's easiest setup:
1. Plug modem into the leftmost outlet.
2. Plug router (if there is one) into the rightmost outlet.
3. Connect network cable from that RJ45 jack there to the router (or modem if it has an integrated router).
4. Plug power cable into the power socket and apply mains AC.
That's literally all there is to using this thing. It'll start up, charge up (more on that in a sec...), find and identify the modem and router (I have it set up to detect about 80 of them, encompassing most of the recommended hardware lists of the broadband providers in the US as well as top-selling consumer and "prosumer" routers), configure itself based on what it finds, and then start monitoring and testing the Internet connection it can reach through the local network.
A lot of hardware got packed into the box. There's an industrial power supply to run everything, a custom controller board to manage two solid-state relays that do the power cycling of modem and router, and a quad-core SBC (in this case, an Odroid C2) that performs the actual connection checks. I picked the C2 over, say, a Raspberry Pi because it has real gigabit networking on its own hardware layer, instead of shared gigabit that can't actually do gigabit like a RPi3 does.
The blue things are another thing I thought wouldn't be a bad idea to include: an internal UPS. Since the Odroid C2 uses a microSD card and they do NOT like power interruptions (read: if the power drops during a write it hoses the filesystem), I added two 100-farad supercapacitors and bridging/balancing circuitry to power the entire unit for a short period of time in the event of a power failure. When the power goes out, both the controller board and C2 are alerted to the situation and the C2 immediately saves all pending disk I/O and shuts itself down. The controller then watches for power to be restored and restarts the C2 when all is well again.
When the Informant is plugged into AC power for the first time (or the first time in a while), nothing shows on the front display for about a minute as the supercaps charge. When they charge enough to power the display, it shows a progress percentage until it's charged up enough to start up the C2. It finishes charging while the rest of the unit does its startup stuff.
I should probably mention that the supercapacitor power backup is only for the Informant itself - it does not power external devices like whatever's plugged into its power outlets. Nothing says the unit can't be plugged into a UPS, though, for extra redundancy and the ability to keep modem/router powered up through power failures...
A side effect of built-in supercapacitor power backup: it'll run when it's not plugged into anything, at least until the charge bleeds off the supercaps...
I don't want my crap to be set on fire, so I built in a ton of safety systems. This is one of them: a non-contact AC current detector. It's not easy to tell but I'm holding it against a power cord for my soldering station and it's sensing that there's current a-flowin'. The Informant uses two of these, sitting atop the two AC outlets in the back, to sense AC wiring faults. It'll detect a dead port (solid-state relay should be "on" but no current is flowing) as well as a stuck relay or backfeed (solid-state relay should be "off" but there's current flow for some reason).
There's also a timed "lockout" limitation on switching the power to the outlets, so that equipment plugged into them won't be damaged by toggling power on and off too quickly. The SSRs themselves are hooked to a heatsink and that heatsink has a temperature probe attached, so if things get too warm the whole thing shuts down and flashes an obnoxious overheat warning message on its front display.
Since I'm using a SBC as a "brain," and it can run a Linux distro, I can do all sorts of fun things. Like install a web stack. After the C2 boots up, it does an internal hardware check once a minute to do things like update its internal list of what the outlets are doing, take temp sensor readings, and so on. One of the steps is to determine its local IP address, which then gets shown on the display. Pointing a browser at that URL gives access to the test result charts, settings, configuration info, and even port controls for manually turning the outlets on and off.
And again since, well, SBC/Linux, I wrote an API for it so it's programmable. The test scripts are Python 3.4+ (but run fine in 2.7.9). Making custom tests for things like checking if a local fileserver is working, etc. is trivial.
Went for a nice, clean look for the web interface. I found a wonderful CSS stylesheet set from W3schools.com that makes it almost ridiculously easy to make a website that scales across platforms and automatically works just as well on mobile devices. Thanks to their CSS wizardry, that web interface is perfectly usable on a cellphone as well as a desktop PC.
Because why the hell not, I also added some basic testing tools. I can run a tracerouter or do a simple downstream speed test from there. Planning on adding a couple extras like a packet loss test at some point.
The "server latency/routing monitor targets" part should be interesting to the gaming crowd. I'm working on giving it the ability to monitor the latency and network connectivity conditions for up to 32 IP/port combinations. They'll be tested on 15-minute intervals like the main connection test, and will be listed on the main page of the unit's website here with color coded warnings for laggy connection or a higher-than-normal hop count from the traceroute.
Or, to TL;DR that bit, I can plug in the IPs/ports to my favorite game servers and see when they're lagging and/or there are routing problems between me and them. It won't tell me if a server is busy, etc. since it's only a connectivity test, but art least I'll be able to conclusively prove that my suckage in whatever game was due to lag.
Oh, that "support" menu entry was a recent addition - once I started showing this thing off to friends and acquaintances, there was a lot of "where and how much?" followed by surprise when I said it was a personal project. As such I'm exploring options for maybe crowdfunding a batch or two. That "support" menu will thus eventually point to a website somewhere if that comes to fruition.
I also added a simple little PHP script that gives the world's quickest Internet connection condition check. Again, works on any device, like my phone there.
Since the world is full of scumbags, security is a thing. I set it up so that, first off, the web server is configured to ONLY show pages to visitors whose IP address is within one of the IANA-allocated local network address blocks. So if you're trying to caress the Informant's website gently from outside the LAN (read: whoever set up the router foolishly added a port forward to the Informant instead of doing something more secure like set up a VPN) it'll serve you a 403 error and tell you to piss off.
I also set it up so that in order to access controls that can do things that might annoy fellow users of the LAN, one must have direct physical access to the Informant itself. Trying to get at the configuration controls, for example, will result in being told you need to enter a security code to proceed. Said code is shown on the front panel display of the unit for ten minutes once a "generate code" button is clicked. The authentication is per-client-device, and can be set to time out after one day/week/month/year or remain in effect permanently. That'll make it much harder for anyone to "accidentally" touch something important (like the "reset modem/router now" button).
Lunch tax!
Cat wanting lunch tax!
airforceteacher
I absolutely love the 90's telecom vibe the case choice gives off. Big kudos!
LoremIpsumEtCetera
Very impressive work. +1
WebMaka
Thankye thankye!
jsmeeth
@WebMaka. Please send me the link as well.
WebMaka
PM sent...
kbloodless
WebMaka
Maahes0
@op would you also be able to incorporate one of those ad blockers into something like this? The ones that stop ads for mobile apps on wifi.
WebMaka
I mean, you COULD add a DNSBL to it, but it's not intended for that. A RPi and Pi-Hole would fill that role well.
Maahes0
Yeah, I got a RPi with the intent to build one, just thought it might me cool to combine the projects.
WebMaka
Pi-Hole is worth it. I use another DNSBL and network-wide blocking is AMAZING. EASILY worth buying another Pi for.
Deadlynitro
Sounds like someone might be opening a Amazon seller account, this looks amazing.
WebMaka
Thankye thankye!
natemangreen6
I would like one as well
WebMaka
PM sent...
dundermifflininity2point0
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
GreatAlfredini
Best I can do is three fiddy.
rckhp
Cool stuff @OP! Could imagine an industrial use for Telco equipment and IoT.
WebMaka
There are already larger versions of things like this in the land of server farms. I want to fill the gap between cheap junk and $$$$$$$$.
IMayOrMayNotHaveTroubleFindingAndOrChoosingAUsername
Very neato! I couldn't imagine it done better. -- Also, "gently caress"; I understood that reference.
WebMaka
Hehehe, was wondering who'd get that first.
tbone1957
You made a thing I want. Also let me know if I can buy shares in your company.
WebMaka
PM sent...
tbone1957
Not received any PM.
WebMaka
Okay -second- PM sent... ;-)
relsky
I have absolutely no need for this, but it’s glorious and I want one! I could see this being exceptionally useful for small businesses...
WebMaka
One of my friends wires up businesses - when I showed it to him last week he was all "when, where, how much?" So, yeah, target market!
TwelveAngryMuffins
I want to purchase this
WebMaka
PM sent...
Rexecutioner
As a headend tech for an ISP, that's pretty awesome. Contrary to popular belief, most of us really want our products to work as best it can
edwinbismark1
You have a MVP, go for crowdfunding and make money with your invention.
WebMaka
Campaign launched.
Fuckweasel
Forgive me if this is ignorant, but isn't this just an expensive way of telling you what you already know but can't actually fix?
WebMaka
What it does that's beneficial is automate the restart process and document the problems you might be having. Easier to file a report on >>
WebMaka
>> a bad connection when you have actual data, complete with charts, to back up the complaint.
Fuckweasel
I see. Thanks.
squallau
"Real gigabit" -- Important for such a high-throughput application! XD Nah but seriously, I'm a fan of the lilly-gilding going on here. +1
squallau
You can also stop the OS getting "hosed" on power loss by mounting the root fs readonly, and doing periodic flushes of logs etc with cron.
WebMaka
Yeah, I know, but I still need graceful shutdown on power failure and that requires a little extra juice so it can do the deed.
mookian
I'll take 1 fur sure
WebMaka
PM sent...
kyodemer
I'd buy one these to babysit my connection. It's a cable line that goes to an underground box... that floods when it rains.
WebMaka
PM sent...
thatsnotmydog
Neat!
WebMaka
barbarian818
Fantastic work. I wish I could give you a lot more than one upvote just for keeping security in mind! PLEASE share this on Hackaday.
WebMaka
Not sure about Hackaday but now there's this page on Indiegogo....
flyingcarcass
I love this shit. You come back when you're ready and we will all throw money at you
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
Things are in motion...
thisusernameismeaningless
While I appreciate the idea, this is ridiculously overbuilt. You needn't the gige port, nor 4 cores, or all the bells&whistles. This is 1/2
thisusernameismeaningless
all doable with an ESP32 with the internal ethernet MAC. You build a device without following DFM guidelines. If you're interested, I 2/3
thisusernameismeaningless
could help you design an actual, manufacturable consumer product, rather than a prototype full of unnecessary bits and pieces. Just PM me.
WebMaka
It's definitely overbuilt, and I welcome constructive criticism. :-)
davidy12345
Nothing wrong with a personal project being overbuilt
davidy12345
Turning it into a consumer project makes it a whole new project with different requirements and expertise.
davidy12345
I love what OP made and I agree with all of your points.
WebMaka
I also love what the OP made and agree with at least a few of them thus far. ;-)
Ilove314159
That’s pretty awesome. Months well spent. And when something is easily read, great effort has gone into the writing. Same with tech.
WebMaka
Thankye thankye!
airforceteacher
Very good point. This is a good writeup.
IlioHae
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
Yes indeedy!
napsmear
Lance04
Perfect
WebMaka
Flawless. Victory.
TJ3027
WebMaka
IOnceOwnedMoonMoonButOnceHeTriedToLickMyBallsAndRanAwayIMissHim
Holy shit this is golden
WebMaka
I thought it was black and bright blue but I might can do golden. ;-)
FuturePerfectTense
WebMaka
yOuShOuLdPiCkAuNiQuEuSeRNaMe
You make this?
napsmear
Yes
yOuShOuLdPiCkAuNiQuEuSeRNaMe
Epic!
thegryffyn
No I made this
TJ3027
Bullshit I made it.
WebMaka
mineminemineminemineminemineminemineminemine
AskARussian
I made that
D33RLORD
Seriously op, throw together a kickstater, indiegogo, or something like that. There's a lot of money to be made here but that window closes.
WebMaka
Aaand done.
D33RLORD
Awesome news! If I wasn't dirt poor at the moment I would back you in a heartbeat. Congratulations and good luck.
D33RLORD
Incredible work BTW.
WebMaka
Thankye thankye!
WebMaka
Was already considering a crowdfunded run of these, and this thread's responses are thumping that drum REAL hard.
tacticool1
Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
elShiz
WebMaka
WebMaka
Somehow I missed a pic. The front panel has a light sensor and the display turns off until you do a thing... https://imgur.com/TlOhj1x
WhyNoGoAway
I want this
WebMaka
PM sent...
ebonyfaery
This is super interesting and I always wanna be able to make stuff but I'm mostly clueless about everything. Thanks for sharing op!
TheMalcontent
I wish they made alarm clocks like this
WebMaka
Get one of these displays and an Arduino and make something cool. ;-)
StephenHart
So, plans? Or where can we order one?
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
Coming soon I guess? Kinda caught flat-footed by the response so I'm gonna have to spin up a LOT of things in a hurry over the next few days
binaryspike
I have an EdgeRouter Lite with OpenBSD hacked onto it. I've only rebooted it twice in 4 years. A few power outages otherwise—It's solid.
WebMaka
pfSense on an old PC here - it only went down when the power did up until its SSD crapped itself.
binaryspike
No offense, but a good router should be able to handle network drops. Seems like this is a redundant piece of equipment to add to the pile.
TrapsAreIllegal
For my connection, it's actually the modem that is the issue.
WebMaka
Oh, I should prob mention it recognizes router OSs/appliances and sets up for reboot-modem-only. It sees my pfSense box during its setup.
WebMaka
For reference: https://imgur.com/YLxZrk6
baranovich
Very cool. What sort of display are you using?
angelisticthoughts
I too read the whole thing trying to figure that out
WebMaka
Newhaven Display slimline 20x4 OLED. Sells for thirty bucks if you want one for your own projects.
baranovich
Awesome, thanks!
J0EYGEN
As expected, when and how much?
Sec109
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
PM sent...
Rotmaster
PM me info too, got a few clients who could really use something like this
WebMaka
PM sent...
BenAndrus
The geek in me is squealing in excitement wishing I could actually get my paws on a beautiful beast like this. So perfect. Soooo need this.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
Okay, now you're making me blush. (Also, the OLED display is available in red, yellow, green, blue, and white.)
G1AC0M0
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
BatmanRidingANarwhal
So... how do I get one
WebMaka
PM sent...
DaneH3
What OLED did you use? I absolutely love the mirror screen info display, and I could totally adopt it into some other projects. Good job!
WebMaka
Shoutout to Newhaven Display for their slimline OLED 20x4 line. They helped me develop a custom driver for the display.
YepItsRome
Could totally use one in my cabin. Now I need to drive 200 miles to reset the router.
WebMaka
Oh that sucks... BTW, although it's set up to not allow WAN connections, you CAN VPN into your network remotely and touch "restart modem".
YepItsRome
My modem is up but my router needs to be power cycled. Would be nice to be able to setup another way in over 4G to reset stuff.
YepItsRome
Lost my site-to-site VPN so I had the cable company send a reset to the modem but the modem came up and my router is still down
seagoose
So, no kidding, how much??
NRC117
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
raptorheyzues
Yeah, grab this and send it to my bro who has much the same. So...@OP?
WebMaka
OP says you have a PM...
DarknessThrivesInTheVoidButAlwaysYieldsToPurifyingLight
Second that
WebMaka
PM sent...
SuperTacticalSandwich
Yes please
WebMaka
PM sent...
TheObservers
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
G1AC0M0
DOOT BITCH!
WebMaka
PM sent, bitch!
triptolemus510
WebMaka
PM sent...
Lunago
Does that mean the numbers have been crunched??
WebMaka
It does. :-)
WebMaka
And they were indeed crunchy. ;-)
NotVanilla
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
BlastFX
Unless @OP plans on making 1000+ units, $100–$200 for hardware alone. Add cost of labor, logistics and support and you're at $300+.
BlastFX
There's a reason most solutions use an Arduino—it gets the job done and costs 10 times less. Sadly, this isn't commercially viable.
WebMaka
Guess what I prototyped with? :-D And yes, 1K units would be a good starting point - anything less might not have enough economy of scale.
BlastFX
Even at that, unless you lose the Odroid and SSRs, you won't be able to get bellow $150. And I'm not even talking about making profit.
WebMaka
We shall see, we shall see...
Lunago
8/10 will still pay for it.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
I'm going to have to crunch the numbers to see what it would cost per each to make how many.
Warutteri
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
motivatedbyfood
+1
WebMaka
PM sent...
MrBubblehead
Also interested.
WebMaka
PM sent...
HazardousM00se
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
IHeartSwissChocolate
WebMaka
PM sent...
DarkSock
I will buy that prototype from you right now for 25 Schmekels...
WebMaka
But what if the mfg. costs make me have ot ask for 30 Schmeckels?
DarkSock
An outrage! That’s the same price as 1.2 sketchy boob jobs!
kruug
Even just a BOM would be useful.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Cpeb12
Yep same here interested
WebMaka
PM sent...
lookatmydingdong
Want!
WebMaka
PM sent...
TJ3027
Shut up and take my money.
WebMaka
PM sent...
rollerskateorgies
If you're going to start selling your own homemade electronic devices, look into insurance first.
Omega0397
LLC would protect your personal assets i think
WebMaka
If this grows the kind of legs this thread indicates, I may be putting a full-bore S-corp together in the VERY near future.
BlackjackB
I’d hold off on that for a while, an LLC costs a lot less to run and your device is either going to hit the ground running or be a niche buy
asscashorgrass
Um can you sign me up for one? Serious inquiry from a fitting username
WebMaka
PM sent...
Ihatestickyballs
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
tacticool1
I would also buy one!
WebMaka
PM sent...
LyricChae
Sign me up for two.
WebMaka
PM sent...
wileypdf
Time for a patent and you to cash in with hookers and black jack.... forget the patent...;)
LeSethX
New business...
way2dawn
This is easily one of the most useful things I have ever seen off this site.
WebMaka
PM sent...
LeonRennard
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
MilDravin
What if you also incorporated a pihole?
yerocorey
. I'll buy too
WebMaka
PM sent...
lolheals
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Jamerperson
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Jamerperson
Campaign being looked at.
EatsBees
Doot doot here's a dot on that
WebMaka
PM sent...
NaySayerWasTakenButIAmActuallyNaySayerDoe
Doot
WebMaka
PM sent...
n432984320
I would like to purchase 1 for testing, then move on from there. Something like this would be very useful for general IT contracting needs.
WebMaka
I can see where contractors could sell the hell out of these to every small biz they do work for.
WebMaka
PM sent...
MenloPart
You had me until "Per each."
WebMaka
Hey, if you want more than one...
pimmit383
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
AutoxLogic
.
WebMaka
PM sent.
Techtronic
I'd buy one too
WebMaka
PM sent...
krisiteenie56
I also would be interested. You need to patent this man
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
Patents are being mentioned a lot, but much of this isn't patentable. What IS patentable, though, I'll be working on.
BananReactionAnimal
Anything you disclosed in this thread is prior art now and therefore not patentable anymore.
WebMaka
Patent law gives one year from the first date of any public showing of a patentable thing.
hifive2wifei
Kickstart and get a good manufacturer; after you patent, of course.
WebMaka
PM sent...
albinoALPACA
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
drewerd15
Dot
WebMaka
PM sent...
Saese
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
BunniesinProfile
Adding a got because, Damn. I love it.
WebMaka
PM sent...
GrimlinKid
My internet works just fine, but I want one anyway!
WebMaka
PM sent...
IamTheRealBowser
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Kyrorayne
Be sure to include your time because this is a fantastic product. Also, I want one.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
I'm a bit taken aback by the response at this point...
airforceteacher
It's a great idea, and the layers of redundancy show some real thought behind it. Add me to the want list
WebMaka
PM sent...
tkochhar
Interested as well. Nice work btw!! Looks very professional.
WebMaka
PM sent...
rhofawx
Doot
WebMaka
PM sent...
normalizetherapy
Damn this is a long doot list... doot.
WebMaka
PM sent...
ultradongle
I'm not kidding either, let me know how much and I will buy a few from you too. This would solve the same issue at a few of my clients.
Malkozaine
Same
WebMaka
PM sent...
FROGSTARSCOUTROBOTCLASSB
I'd like to throw my hat into the ring of also paying federal notes for this thing
WebMaka
PM sent...
W0ND0
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
comeintokyo
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
PM sent...
BababaMoooya1
..
WebMaka
PM sent...
SoupCanMan
Install a background on your clients desktop with big bold letters saying "CHECK ROUTER FIRST BEFORE CALLING ME" still call you tho, lol.
WebMaka
"LOG INTO WEBSITE ON DISPLAY AND DO WHAT IT SAYS, --THEN-- CALL ME!" ;-)
ultradongle
They'd still call first.
manicmalki
Billable hours.
cheeserunners
Also would buy. Shut up and take my money!
WebMaka
PM sent...
NoThisIsATideAd
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
NinjaTurtleRaphael
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
3nd3rwiggin
Hope you enjoy your new career. Adding onto the ever expanding list of interested parties.
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
"So, what do you do for a living?" "I make little boxes full of wonder."
yepthatguy
That actually sums up what my neighbor does, but for lighting and FX for performers. He said a MB of RAM is a vast playground in his world.
Leedleleedl
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
6thDegreeKevinBacon
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
ohshitwaddupherecomdatboi
Please keep me informed as well!
WebMaka
PM sent...
NarwhalRidingDungBeetle
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
KuramaKitsune
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
shimensoka363
Poke me please if theres a crowdfund or direct to market for this, or failing that, plans so we can make our own
WebMaka
PM sent...
WebMaka
How 'bout we look into both. ;-)
0570
I’d like one, but it’d have to be fitted to EU standards (240v ac and EU sockets with grounding).
WebMaka
At least initially I'll have to roll out NA power only - the mains section is already 10A/240VAC but EU certs will take time/money.
0570
Here's a thought: add a cloud-service to it. If it does not get a ping every minute, a notification is sent out to the admin. Kinda SNMP-ish
WebMaka
Thought about that but I don't want to get too close to existing patents that specifically mention that sort of thing.
BlastFX
If it doesn't get a ping (i.e. the connection is down), how is it supposed to send a message to the admin?
CommanderLiteral
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Playinlax
$1,538 dollars
WebMaka
Eleventy bajillion dollars?
WebMaka
Also, PM sent...
bewarerockcreekpark
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
AyEssEssAichOhEllEe
I think everyone stuck with cable broadband would want one. I know I do! Seriously interested!
WebMaka
PM sent...
Curioustoknow
I want to buy one too, I live in the UK. Please keep me informed if you can. Much appreciate it.
WebMaka
PM sent...
Baltakhand
.
WebMaka
PM sent...
powwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I know little more than to say “neat” and I’m also going to chime in with, how much? It’s pretty :) i’ll take nine.
WebMaka
PM sent...
FirmLikeMutton
I'm in
WebMaka
PM sent...
CycloneSP
don't forget to include labor costs ;)
CycloneSP
also, since this seems to have become quite a popular product in this thread, you should look into starting yer own company! XD
WebMaka
Already had the company, had to add a crowdfund campaign.
WebMaka
Thanks to the response this has garnered, things are in motion...
kornikopic
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WebMaka
PM sent...