PrincessBatCat
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Feb 19, 2025 1:39 AM
PrincessBatCat
32877
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OsIgnis
This is just not true. Jesus stated in Matthew that he did NOT come to break old covenants… I mean it’s all bullshit anyway… but do like to think of all those fake preachers burning for wearing mixed fabrics and eating lobster.
override367
That's a lot of words to justify why the new writers of the second installment of your favorite book seem to have retconned a bunch of stuff, instead of just "it was written by different people with different priorities and laying with another dude in Rome wasn't as bad as all that"
Karma1970
stronomer
I simply don't take my moral guidelines from a historic collection of cobbled-together fantasy stories, quite easy. Kant's categorical imperative is enough for me.
meganical
And, the Old Testament never mentioned lesbians so they need to stop being dragged into the mess. It also could be included in hetero relationships since it was sodomy and not homosexuality they said was bad. No anal, people. Sorry but I think God knew most religious zealots already have a stick up their butt so there’s no room for anything else.
RuKosopaty
Things i like to point out to "Christians":
1. Jesus was middle eastern Jew. It seems so obvious yet people tend to magically forget about it.
2. Jesus was a rebel. He didn't want people to sacrifice anything to follow old, dumb traditions. Why you think he would want you to mistreat someone for being gay, for the sake... of old dumb traditions?
NightOwlRally
He also hung out with thieves and brigands, whores, drank and never let people forget that when people try the ol' "WWJD?" remind them that flipping over tables, fucking shit up, and chasing people with a whip are within the realm of possibilities.
ParaSiddha
This is basically long form Galatians 2:19-21 which closes "if the law could bring righteousness Jesus died for nothing"
NightOwlRally
Christ did in fact say one curse word, when he was telling his followers to 'love one another, as I have loved you' and when someone asked 'what if they're gay or look different?'
"Did I fucking stutter?"
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
My school taught me that the Bible is the absolute law of the world, that everything mentioned in the bible needs to be followed to a T, I viewed women less, I was extremely homophobic, it was only when my Mom, a super religious person who said "The bible is not written by god, it's written by goat herding virgin assholes" well not exactly that but almost like that, and thus I broke free from religion, the homophobic part broke off when a friend came out the closet.
DrewK98
I doubt goat herders could read and write. The bible was written by rich, powerful men.
IUpvoteEveryNicholasCageGIF
It was either continuing the path of idiocy or losing my first kiss, my first love, my first date, and my best friend forever.
Grapeape2000
Cool, cool...except that that first paragraph is a Christian understanding of Jewish theology and not the way Jews see it.
CedricDur
As if it wasn't clear most people, if only at a subconscious level, aren't aware it's all bullshit and baby talk. Look at all the priests diddling kids. You think they really believe in their god?
Huor
Nice to think that logic and reason can have an impact on people using religion to justify their hate.
MasterMookie
I wouldnt pray to a god that can change their mind of what is correct or not and have a punishment of eternity for doing the wrong thing. Thats not a god that is a maniac. A god that changes is not perfect therefore their morals are not certain to be the best way to live. I will live life by my way through logic and empathy even if this god would be real.
Z0op
Yeah even if we just shove logic aside and say, yes, this is all true (which version then?). Has anyone read the book and the horrible things its glorifies and justifies? If God is real then he is an absolute psychopath. Damn me to eternal suffering in hell then (not every version has that), because this is plain wrong and i would refuse to worship it even if you could prove it to be real.
In any case, its quite the hypothesis to actually base your life and moral codes on, so i dont
Z0op
Im perfectly capable of shaping those on my own
syntheticgod8
Anytime I hear them complain about homosexuals all I hear is, "I think about male on male buttsecks ALL THE TIME and CANNOT STOP and I'm going to make it your problem because I think it's yucky. My disgust over something I don't have to do or see if I don't want to trumps your rights and freedoms."
dripstone
This seems to check out. Christo fascists seem to invalidate Christ's sacrifice...
4EverZw
Were we to believe these fictional stories, then there was no real sacrifice. An eternal being did not die, but instead experienced momentary discomfort. What jebus did was the equivelent of giving the last crab rangoon from your plate to someone else at the buffet, knowing full well another full tray is about to be brought out.
meowingintensifies
at best, he allegedly gave up his weekend for their sins.
turtlefarm
What I always struggle with the whole Jebus coming down to be killed for our sins, is that why the F*ck does ANYONE need to be killed in order for this Space-Pixie then somehow be able to forgive the sins. I mean, he's supposed to be all powerful, yea? Why can't he just forgive without the extra theatricals if he wants to?
That's just one of the 1000 things in the book that makes me think it might just be a bit of bullcrap.
psmith00
i'm certain the Repugnicans would spin this differently just so they can keep the old rules and crate as much pain as they can with them.
JamShady
Extrapolating this further, if Christians don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing.
NearHereThere
Yeah cool. None of it's real tho. So ... Fan fiction for 2000 years ago goat herders at best.
amiurume
Here's the thing, they don't care. They use their "religion" as excuses for treating people who are different from them as less than.
PartaVictoriisPax
"something something no god before me"
Akistos
of course, the *really* real reason people don't have to do any of that stuff is because it's all a made up fairy tale.
spookyactionatadistance
Ya. My only answer to a religious argument is "I don't care". I will respect you and allow for you to practice your religion, if you need time for prayer or accommodations for Ramadan I will gladly help as long as you leave me alone and respect that I don't care about any religiosity.
cornworld
That's accurate. I used to work with a guy who followed certain beliefs and he would have to fast. He would sometime slip and make excuses to me. I would laugh, because he was he was following rules he placed on himself and I was cool if he ate during our shift.
RaekinTheBored
Huh, I guess when you look at it that way, religion is kind of a learned OCD.
SonnyVabitch
I won't go to heaven because I live in sin and reject the message of the Lord Jesus Christ. They won't go to heaven because it doesn't fucking exist.
Ivain
Well, yes, but logic and religion don't tend to fit in the same brain. Not that most religious types care even about arguments involving their own religion unless you're a high-ranking member of it, and even then they might ignore you if their favorite preacher says otherwise.
LuminoZero
Dismissing all religious people as fools is a crutch to make yourself feel better and superior. Jimmy Carter was religious, he was also a Nuclear Physicist.
Akistos
Ever major religion is logically impossible at worst and riddled with inconsistencies that invalidate the basic premise at best. No amount of intelligence or degrees will change that.
LuminoZero
"Logically Impossible" always makes me laugh. Most religions have an omnipotent God that existed before the Universe, therefore is not bound by the laws of physics. So why do you think physical laws could define such an entity?
Bunnies007
If Jesus sacrificed himself to absolve us from our sins, why is it that every innocent baby is tainted by 'original sin' and has to be baptised to restore that child's innocence?
11InternetSmuggler
That's only the Catholic babies. Most protestant babies are fine
Bunnies007
Phew, that's good to know!
OmenJones
That's an... interesting take on "Christian theology." I'd rather just go with "I don't fucking care what the Bible says."
NightOwlRally
If you use the word "lore" instead of "The Word" it really makes them happy. Trust me ;D
PrincessBatCat
And that's perfectly fine. Not saying I do or don't believe it or anything either. Just sharing what happened to be the 16th favorite. Or rather the 16th of the 16th because I'm not about to share an entire dump lol
Chimaeraxxxxx
It’s a valid point if you’re talking to people who do believe in it. Sure there are some who don’t know anything about the Bible and don’t actually care what it says but will claim it says to gate people, and those people won’t be touched by this. But there are some who may be touched by the “logic” of believing in it the way you’re supposed to
crateo
Well, it is the catholic perspective. Quoting the leviticus as law would take you to the inquisition express
Hashbrown123
I get it, but you make a better point by using their own religion against them. They will just brush off a non-believer.
OmenJones
Unfortunately, this very comment thread demonstrates that people aren't interested in learning what the religion actually says past twitter comments, so...
EaNasirsExcellentHighGradeCopper
the bible doesnt even say anything about homosexuality. Its all from a fucking mistranslation that actually says, basically, dont fuck kids.
OmenJones
Eh... no. The original text is ambiguous at best, but at no point references children. That particular "interpretation" has its origin on Twitter. It could mean a few things (even something as mundane as fornication), but there's nothing behind the "pedophilia" interpretation.
Vebrandsson
You've been hit by quite a lot down votes but you're not wrong. There's legitimate debate over translations based on the oldest versions of that section of the text, and not just by modern Christianity. Even the Talmudists have discussions about how to translate that into their books.
PrincessBatCat
Considering how notorious pedophilia and church servicemen mix, I wonder if it was a purposeful mistranslation and where it started.
CyanideBreathMint
Amen
MrSatisify
FierceAndAdorable
This is exactly why Constantine converted, and made Christianity the state religion.
RuminatingYak
"I do not see in religion the mystery of the incarnation, but the mystery of the social order; religion attaches to heaven an idea of equality that stops the rich from being massacred by the poor." - Napoleon, March 4, 1806.
Midioto
I mean, so are memes and pithy quotes, but here we are. :/
SpecialIdiot
"God was invented by cavemen to explain thunder."
Beardedgeek72
GodS
pfrazier21044
Nah bro... you can miss me with that religion s%^it - Albert Einstein 1947
listentothesoundbetweenyourlegs
It's amazing how people can go on and on about a crummy work of fiction.
meganical
Sorry your ancestors and their collection of passed-down stories into a single book didn’t meet your expectations
funone77
But MY fairytale is the one that got it right.
EdelwoodHikes
For the last damn time, Balrogs did not have actual wings.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
I don't believe in god (at least not the Abrahamic God), but I still think of Jesus as being a great moral philosopher - the dogma is fiction, but I wouldn't call it crummy. I actually kinda like the bible as a work of fiction, but maybe that's just personal taste.
meowingintensifies
As Forest Valkeri says "It's a bronze age sex manual." lol
Akistos
HEY BABYLON 5 IS THE SINGLE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD ON TELEVIS- oh wait
faphappyscreencappy
Building a religion around that might be fun. Weekly service could include a Swedish meatball supper.
Akistos
fresh, or aged....?
doctorId
Church is just a book club that never moved on to reading another book
kwent86
In Grod we Trungus - Steve Brule probably
Karma1970
W0lfsbl00d
It's mythology, folklore, allegory and bits of historical information conditioned in from many angles. It was designed by many men for different reasons, some to guide, some to control, some to help cope with not having true answers to injustices, miseries, dark thoughts, existential anxieties, etc.
The moralists of the Bible even tried to warn future societies about society ending scum lords like Donald. They refer to him as Antichrist.
Johnsky
When they quote Leviticus, demand to know how many pets they have sacrificed to their god.
syntheticgod8
I like to ask if they're a Levite priest. No? Then those laws don't apply to you.
crateo
Good ol' inquisition would have burned anyone telling people to follow the old Jewish law :D
phuzz00
Or if they're wearing mixed fibre, or have a tattoo
maday1br
I was thinking ask them about the amount of pork and shellfish in their diets, but the mixed fiber thing is better.
yalczero
Anytime a magat starts quoting the old testament like it's supposed to be treated as serious I think to myself "We need to bring back Nero-equse garden parties. You can be the lights."
ExTechOp
To be fair, Jesus specifically said to follow the Jewish law (eg. John 14:15), but other parts of the text imply his sacrifice has freed humans from that, and Paul concurs:
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ
(Dan Docimo in this video)
M4UsedRollout
This is because Jesus and Paul disagreed on what Jesus’s sacrifice meant.
ExTechOp
The internal schisms of early Christianity are indeed largely glossed over in the New Testament, but some hints of how bad things got do remain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Antioch
By the way, that original image has lost a lot of pixels, here's a better copy from ten years ago. /GKBWfyi
HawkmanXLII
What would be a normal human answer to that question? My friend wants to know how many pets it's ok to sacrifice on average.
SithElephant
That depends if you were raised on a farm.
Ihaveafork
He has a big barbeque cookout planned for this weekend, so whatever you can spare now would be good.
UdensZirnis
As much as necesarry, duh. Ran over animals do not count.
derekjohn
Does it matter if you chased them ?
DukeSliscus
They don;t need to, they can quote Corinthians. You know that book that says "Hey, this is what Jesus *really* meant" That has a bunch of pro-state, anti-women, anti-gay bullshit in it that reflected the contemporary beliefs of the people the early Christians were trying to convert... which is probably a coincidence right?
tl;dr: fuck the pauline epistles
M4UsedRollout
If it makes it any better, the most-cited anti-woman stuff was likely not written by Paul, but added later. There were a lot of women involved in setting up the early church, and Paul was glad to have their help.
Phoebe, Prisca, Mary, Junia, to name a few.
DukeSliscus
I don't think any of the Pauline epistles were written by Paul
M4UsedRollout
Scholars think at least half of them were written by the same person: Romans, Galatians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Philemon, Philippians, and 1 Thessalonians.
DukeSliscus
Same person? Yes.
Paul ? No
Gabelvampir
Well Kristi Noem kinda sacrificed a few...
ilikepot8os
And yet still wears mixed fabrics, or segregate herself from the world when she's on her period.
ThisGuyPostingThings
Doesn't count as a sacrifice if it annoys you and that's the only reason you're doing it.
Arkvoodle
Maybe that's just her public excuse for animal sacrifice.
TI99Kitty
Let's see... she killed a dog for (checks notes) acting like a dog. She also killed a goat, for (checks notes) acting like a goat.
Sheari
Am I allowed to kill Kristi Noem for acting like Kristi Noem? /s
SithElephant
Yes, but more accurately no.
Calicious
This is not correct for virtually every Christian denomination. Jesus came to fulfill the need for sacrifice to atone for sins - and that's it. He didn't erase all of the other rules listed.
I think it's all just a shitty fantasy novel, but let's at least not mess up the agreed upon canon.
Rayfire3535
Is the canon agreed upon?
11InternetSmuggler
Lol exactly what I was gonna say
PrincessBatCat
It doesn't say the rules were erased, only that there's no need to follow them anymore.
Calicious
If you don't have to follow it then it isn't a rule anymore - ergo erased.
LandManatee
If a Christian doesn't understand this, they haven't read the Bible. Colossians 2:14 describes the nailing of the old law to the cross with Christ's death, and Hebrews 8 establishes the change in covenants very clearly.
M4UsedRollout
If a Christian believes this, they haven’t read the Bible. Matthew 5:17-20.
You’ve hit on a central contradiction in the Christian faith: Paul and Jesus disagree on the point of Jesus’s death and resurrection.
Or, Paul and Matthew anyway.
LandManatee
The crux of that passage comes down to the difference between "destroy" καταλῦσαι, and "fulfill" πληρῶσαι. He did not come to break or nullify the law, but to bring about its fulfillment.
M4UsedRollout
If you get caught speeding and are given a speeding ticket, the law has been fulfilled. That does not mean there are no more speeding tickets.
Calicious
Col 2:13 reiterates no longer needing sacrifices for absolution. It nails the indebtedness to the cross - not the law. It says nothing about the law no longer applying.
LandManatee
The "legal demands" of the debt here refer to the law.
Calicious
What version says "legal demands"?
NASB says "certificate of debt", NLT: "record of charges", NIV: "Legal indebtedness", NRSV: "record against us", ESV: "record of debt", KJV: "ordinances against us",
None that I can find refer to the law itself, but rather your own record. So whatever version you are referencing is VERY fringe as it says something entirely different than everything else.
LandManatee
Can't believe you didn't actually finish reading those before you posted. Legal demands is in the ESV, where they translate χειρόγραφον as the "record of debt" and δόγμα as the "legal demands." I think the NASB does a somewhat better job of elucidating the original meaning with "the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us." I mean, Paul is directly discussing the fact they no longer need to keep the feasts, Sabbaths, or physical circumcision that were prescribed under the Mosaic Law
Calicious
The original text is: χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασιν ὃ ἦν ὑπεναντίον ἡμῖν
χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασιν directly translates to "handwriting in the decrees" which refers to a note about your personal adherence to the decree.
ὃ ἦν ὑπεναντίον ἡμῖν directly translates to "which was adverse to us" which denotes that said note is of your failure &/or punishment.
So the original text doesn't mention anything about laws, it talks about our record of following those laws &/or need for punishment.
Calicious
hebrews 8 doesn't ever say it changes the law - it changes the covenant (relationship) between god and men - making it so they no longer need to use the same means of absolution because (8:10-12)
God has multiple covenants in the Bible. None change the divine law.
LandManatee
The law is literally a covenant. The Mosaic covenant. There are certainly covenants which do not include laws, but the Mosaic covenant ain't one of them. With the death and resurrection of Christ, the purpose of the law was fulfilled and a new covenant enacted on His blood. If you don't understand this, you really need to spend some time in Romans and Hebrews.
Calicious
Negative. The law is simply one part of the covenant. There is not a single place in the Bible that says the law was changed - only the path to absolution for breaking it. Both of the examples above further aid my point.
Calicious
It won't let me reply to your next comment about ANE covenants and Suzarian treaties. It just disappears from the app. If you can see it, disregard this.
I'm very aware. Vassal treaties such as those define entire relationships and not just laws - proving my point and making it look like you only brought them up as a failed "gotcha". Vassal treaties can change without the actual laws being changed. In fact, they often do.
Calicious
To be forthright, I have a degree on this topic.