elShiz
159939
3277
149
From the DICE AMA
EDIT:
It appears DICE hated the AMA.
Source:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-battlefront-2-controversy-we-hated-it-di/1100-6454992/
Just trying to help others understand the underlying issue with what's going on, and if things don't change, EA and other publishers will only continue down this ridiculous path of...bullshit.
Source (arsonbunny):
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7d4qft/star_wars_battlefront_ii_dice_developer_ama/dpvdfvb/
Thank you 1001111001 and Aokiji for putting this out there. It seems some don't have context to how microtransactions and the gambling setup translates to real world time and money. This is beyond insane.
Source:
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/yZ9nC
EDIT 3:
I was mistaken in saying Aokiji crunched the numbers. Here is a link to the FULL breakdown by Soeren Kamper
Source: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2017/11/it-will-take-4528-hours-of-gameplay-or-2100-to-unlock-all-base-game-content.html
EDIT 1:
Testing? Never been here before guys... Hope this works and if it does WOOOO this is pretty awesome!
No but seriously, this is bigger than we realize and some are trying to downplay the severity of what the Publishers are doing, not to mention how it impacts the future of gaming in general.
Just today the Gambling Authority of Belgium announced it will be investigating EA for possibly violating gambling laws/regulations. That's kind of a big deal and certainly more important than simply educating our kids about the dangers of this type of system. Gamers of all ages are affected.
Sources:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefront-2-overwatch-being-investigated-by-gamb/1100-6454989/
http://fortune.com/2017/11/15/star-wars-battlefront-gambling-disney-electronic-arts-loot-box-crate/
EDIT 2:
Now that this has picked up steam from major online gaming or other "news" sites, it's becoming quite apparent the sheer ridiculousness
https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/15/16656478/star-wars-battlefront-2-content-unlock-time-cost
Lastly, I'm asking for a friend, does asking for boobs really work?
CassiTheVainQueen
They deleted the Reddit comment.
bart2pl
don't pre-order games, no amount of shitposting will change as much as just not buying products before release
AddictiontoPerfection
I was just about to give up and Google what was wrong with the new Star Wars EA game so I could get the jokes. Thanks for the concise post!
Barian
EA is like the Harvey Weinstein of gaming. We've known for a while that they are greedy, and now we are finally dealing with it. +1
Obijesus
Are we dealing with it? Or will this just blow over like everything other EA release
Barian
Maybe it will just blow over, but I do feel we are talking about it in a different way this time, and the whole reddit thing is crazy :p
Barian
I honestly hope that more BS will come out in the open and be dealt with.
rebel13459
They've also added an arbitrary limit to the amount of credits you can earn in arcade in a time period for no reason 1/2
VitameatavegaminItsSoTastyToo
Son’s been playing the first one since it came out. He has the basic players and some that he finds along the way and he is happy as can be
Spaceorbisgaming
This is so sad I want to return to the days of playing a game with everything none of this lootbox bullshit.
villlllle
I dont mind Blizzard's implementation of loot boxes in OW or decks in HS...
Cereaza
Game development budgets have exploded since then. Crash Bandicoot cost $1.7M to make. Half-Life 2: $40M. Destiny: $140M
Cereaza
Doesn't mean it's impossible to make money, but publishers see that big budget games are required to attract attention in the market
Cereaza
and with massive budgets, they need more revenue streams. Microtransactions are a pretty reliable way to make a lotta money.
Ansatsunin
Yeah, no. The whole microtransaction-based bullshit we're heading towards has nothing to do with offsetting costs. It's pure greed.
Cereaza
I'll stop you there. 100% of businesses operate on Greed. maybe 99.9%, but no company says "Oh, that's enough profit. No more profit please.
Spaceorbisgaming
It still doesn't give them the right to fuck gamers over.
fairlybad
Cites sources, has math, psychological context rundown. Outstanding work good folk! +1!
Darjanator
Has the post deleted by the mods.
RockPaperChainsaw
It's the same principle used by Imgur to make you press or swipe to the the next post.
KlaatuVaradaNicto
Please be this passionate about Internet Neutrality. Its EA for the entire internet. PLEASE.
Tilted9000
Darjanator
And the post is now deleted.
Veolocity
I've been playing League of Legends on and off since 2010. And I still haven't come close to 4000+ hours of game time.
ShinyMatador
I don't get all the hate. Just play 31 hours a day.
raavatis
Right?! That way it'll only take just under 5 months. Easy peasy amirite?
papasmurf1118
Your sarcasm is outta control
Animala144
Sm9yCg
YOu need to play more like 300 hours per day to unlock all of that in a fortnight.
vulgarian
Well written, my experience to a tee. Please share
Outlavv
All this on what is just a rerelease of battlefront with ''new features'', and which is just a retexture of battlefield to be star wars
oxfordsorbrogues
Not true. Looks much better than battlefield visuals
justanotherguy135
That last part is objectively wrong
AmyRene
I remember when microtransactions first started taking over online games as payment instead of subscriptions and I said then this is where
AmyRene
Games that tried to push the boundaries of technology and impress us with the adventure of the game, instead of attempting to become a cash
AmyRene
It would end up. I miss my online games. I miss EQ2 before microtransactions were a thing. I miss looking forward to games like Vanguard.
AmyRene
Cow for the developer.
Jqball
#disney
zmxme
I just dont care anymore. "EA's..." you and your mother and your mothers unborn children's chrildren have already told me already
ekkhou
Well, this is just how our capitalist world works? Why not stop supporting materialism altogether then as we wake up to how things are run?
taytothief
Anyone with half a brain has seen this coming for years. It’s gamers who are to blame for this.
PhailRaptor
Not hardcore gamers. Casuals. The ones that mostly play mobile games and dabble in real ones. Almost all mobile games are like this.
BigFatUglyBugFaceBabyEatingOBrian
Truth. But I still think it's the lower age brackets in combo with clueless parents who are the biggest "problems" Keeping this going
Ansatsunin
Hey, fancy seeing someone from my Steam friendlist here. An old steamgifts member. Luckily, most of us have a brain.
taytothief
Oh hey shinobi!
LiterallyYourGrandpa
Repent! Repent you sinners! For we have wrought doom upon ourselves! Repent and the Gods of Gaming might have mercy on our souls!
WalterSobchaksWorldOfPain
Thank you so much for addressing this. The Star Cards were the biggest problem in my opinion. Fucking fuck, I wanted this game so badly.
Ansatsunin
... You shouldn't have in the first place. STOP GIVING MONEY TO HORRIBLE COMPANIES. Is this really so hard to understand?
WalterSobchaksWorldOfPain
I feel like I can't morally buy it now.
elShiz
You and me both. Cannot let my money support this garbage ass system.
minutericechannel
I miss mods! I remember free community built mods on games like BF 1942 that expanded online titles dramatically. I'll stick with BF1.
Lichelf
Get the original BF2. Tons of mods.
Mavgurian
Tons of servers?
minutericechannel
Haha, I have all the BF games on PC or PS4 now. I would love to host a retro BF 1942 or BF2 server! I miss being able to host!
Lichelf
Dunno. Haven't played since they brough online back recently.
8IZen
Am I the only person on the internet that isn't outraged by this whole ordeal? You are not obligated to play this game.
8IZen
If you go to Disney land you pay for a ticket at the door then you pay to ride the rides. No one is forcing you to go to Disneyland.
8IZen
It's an economic theory/experiment. It will get pushed to its extreme limit and then either collapse or retract. That's what the market do.
QDuplicity
Collapse or retract based on consumer response. This is our response, we're voicing our opinion that we won't support this business model...
QDuplicity
The more people who speak up the less likely that other games will have this kind of manipulative systems design in the future.
GadenKerensky
No, but the principle behind this issue is scummy, and no one wants it to spread to more and more games.
MiskatonicMusketeer
1)It's the predatory, gambling-esque nature of a product which is largely played by minors,
MiskatonicMusketeer
2)coupled with the fact that consumers are unable to play the game in it's entirety without massive investment.
MiskatonicMusketeer
3)This marks a broader market shift towards unethical, consumer-unfriendly business practices that warrants pushback.
Slander7
It's worth noting that the success of this model in the mobile market has made it the overwhelming default there for the last several years.
SpunkyGoon
They also dont have a $60 cost at the beginning. And most of them aren't random loot boxes. You know what you are buying beforw hand.
Slander7
You don't HAVE to play any of them, but it's become almost hard to find new mobile games that aren't flashy skinner boxes at this point.
Alfscooby98
Its a shame they've gone this direction. The beta was so fun and promising. I just hope the game will be relatively playable at launch.
ultrabla
Been playing the early access the game is amazing literally no signs of any of the negatives yet and ive already unlocked all the heroes
Ansatsunin
... Seriously? DON'T BUY IT. This fucking company needs to fuck off already. Mass boycott is in order. Did you even read any of the OP?
IAmJacksRagingBileDuct
Why are you still buying it?
UnspokenX
IT wont be. Its already unplayable and it hasnt come out. No hyperbole either. Let's give an example.
JustABonelessAlien
It's entirely playable. The only thing different from the beta is that some people will have a small advantage over others.
Alfscooby98
I guess so. I'm still planning on playing the game for the story though
Ansatsunin
... Congratulations. Your lack of insight into the broader issues at play here are helping ruin gaming year by year. Thanks.
elShiz
Was going to be the first game purchase in months, but I refuse to let my money support such a garbage system.
Ansatsunin
Stop buying any EA games whatsoever, let them bleed. Otherwise, they will continue aggressively taking over dev studios and killing gaming.
NotWrenP
On some heroes you are literally invincible while using abilities. That's not a small advantage
JustABonelessAlien
Not one hero is invincible because of their abilities. Plus the hero aren't even a postbox issue.
NotWrenP
/a/uaOvv the card shown in this picture makes your hero take 100% less damage when fully upgraded. Yes this is an issue.
JustABonelessAlien
It says 50%, you cannot get a fully upgraded card from a lootbox,
Buffalowingman
YouTubers have proven that is more than a small advantage check levelcapgaming's YouTube page
palmo
~30% more damage and increased health from star cards is not a small advantage
UnspokenX
It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE if you dont pay to unlock characters to join a game and NOT BE ABLE TO SELECT A CHARACTER TO PLAY because the 4 free
BeesechurgerProductions
Only in the Heroes and Villains game mode, which is based around unique characters.
UnspokenX
its still a humongous issue. "Oh, you didnt buy stuff yet? Well, say goodbye to a chunk of the game you paid for."
BeesechurgerProductions
I was just trying to correct your misinformation-based wording, not defending the core action.
UnspokenX
fair point. It's not exactly easy to write a fully-informed, coherent post sometimes. I mean we only have a total of 140 characters to w
UnspokenX
ones were already picked by other players. Games dont start 'til you got 6 people minimum.
roadkillnecromancer
this will get downvoted but yeah it is. they made a beautiful, enjoyable, and true star wars game, but the progression system SUCKS
Mavgurian
Will it still be enjoyable when 24/7 and better off gamers grind/buy the better gear, and a matchmaking system puts them against the 1/2
Mavgurian
non-equipped regulars that get curb stomped every round till they pay up? 2/2
Ansatsunin
Correction - the entire publisher behind it sucks, and will make all future games worse, unless we fully boycott them.
eksoskel
So... Just spitballing here. Doesn't magic the gathering work on this same principle?
Xalaqia
MTG you can trade/buy/sell/gift the cards you get. Cards can't be improved by grinding.
UnspokenX
yes, except people willingly put rules like "no cards over 10 bucks" or "commons/uncommons only" etc. BF2 is "you pay or you lose lol."
imgurdemocratcirclejerk
In a way yea, but with magic at least you physically get something that has actual value to other people.
MrPredator
This. In MTG, you get something physical in exchange for currency. That item has value, which allows it to be be bought, sold, and traded.
HungryWampa
With mtg you can spend hundreds to create an incredible deck. However, I can make a deck that will beat it 40% of the time for only $15.
BrosephStalin2501
No. Most tournaments (as well as FNM) are draft. $20+ entry fee and you can trade/gift your draft cards as desired. Pre-built can 1>
BrosephStalin2501
2> get expensive, but most hobbies can get as expensive as you want them to.
BrosephStalin2501
The same is true for most collectible card game. You do gamble on pack content, but skill, deck construction, and draw luck determine winner
CambianDarkhorse
Except you don't have to pay $60 first before you start to play the game.
Kronzor
What's a starter deck worth? $30 or so?
Grayfox23
You need to buy the cards. And Magic is notoriously expensive to keep up with the new expansions. EA isn’t the only company that likes $
ZKrock
Using CCGs as a strawman argument. Interesting.
Grayfox23
As an example of similar practice, not an argument. I'm not defending ea simply pointing out shit ain't New or exclusive to them.
sinbios
You don't have to pay $60 first to even have the right to buy the cards.
Grayfox23
... what? That doesn’t even make sense. You need to buy a deck before you can play the game. Then buy boosters to keep in the game.
sinbios
You're right, you convinced me. Magic is also trash that relies on exploiting addiction to leech money out of people.
EverybodysGrudge
those are additional cards from other sets. This is like buying a deck then you can't play all yours cards without playing hours/buying
ionizdgrunt
You don't need boosters or fat packs at all. Just buy individuals.
ArtOzz
4 years and 51 days of 3 hours a day average per week. Lol.
youknowwhyimhere6969
By that time there will already be 2 more games they pumped out.
pfsar
Not to mention that most people can't play games 24/7...
pfsar
Why do people think it's wrong to point out that unless you pay to play most people don't have a hope in hell of unlocking everything!?
n8crafter
"3 hours a day average per week"
pfsar
But even 3 hours a day is more than the free time some people have to spare on anything, let alone a single game.
seriousguy7
You got a shit bucket?
governmentgavemeagun
Or 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week, for more than 8 years...
PrisonMichaelScott
Yep. I don't even manage that most days in my busy life either....
kibateo
speaking of lol, League takes more than 3 years to unlock every champ. At least its a free game
XFactor777
This is complete bullshit the prices are nowhere near that high in fact they are more than fair don't spread lies it hurts the cause
definitelynotawolf
So what exactly is your position at Electronic Arts?
ElectricOwl99
Don’t bother with them they’d rather be angry than question the “facts” that support their arguments
ArtOzz
If Im guity of anything it us of MATHS. I dont know nor do I care about the accuracy of @OP's claims. I dont play EA or Disney titles and no
XFactor777
You need to check your figures you can grind out a new hero once a week with that amount of playtime they are only 15k at the most expensive
ArtOzz
1. I never looked up the figures. I was translating @OPs into hours, weeks, and years. 2. I dont care.
XFactor777
So you didn't do any research you just started spouting numbers because you want anger seems legit
ArtOzz
one ever listens to what I say about anything anyway.
elShiz
Ya, that's an entirely new level of ridiculousness even by gamer standards.
LadiesInboxMeYourInsecurities
Western games for sure. Korean MMOs though man. 4.5k hours is something they would sneeze at. They scare me sometimes. In a bad way.
AncientPostNecromancer
Their accounts are tied to their socials, so hacking them is a "federal" crime over there. Which i can get behind.
ArtOzz
Well, from what I know of games design there is actually a reasonable defence. But no one wants to consider it. Theyre too busy witchhunting
elShiz
Investigation by Belgium Gambling Auth https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefront-2-overwatch-being-investigated-by-gamb/1100-6454989/
elShiz
It's a payable game sure, however the issue still lies with the publisher pushing gambling and addictive behavior
ArtOzz
Indeed? I know someone whos been doing it for decades.
PrisonMichaelScott
I'm not sure that's the issue at all. The real issue is that they are charging ridiculous amounts for content that should be standard.
elShiz
Gambling under investigation by Belgium: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefront-2-overwatch-being-investigated-by-gamb/1100-6454989/
MMDCLI
Interesting. I'd like to know what it is.
ArtOzz
At -1 Im disinclined. But Ill say this much. World of Warcraft started the fine tradition of including gambling systems in games. EA isnt
ArtOzz
breaking new ground so much as adding to it.
DrShrinker
But you didn't buy upgrades with cash in WoW. You grind. Only thing you can buy are cosmetic items.
Falos
Are you 12? Missed Diablo 2? Not they started random equipment. Not that it takes 40 hours to get a certain boss drop either.
WhoShotMeInTheHead
It's the 12-16 age group which is the most vulnerable to this system. At least adults understand the pitfalls and spend consciously
[deleted]
[deleted]
Veolocity
And the next thing you find is that you wasted $80 on a game your teenager played for 4 hours.
Veolocity
You clearly don't understand the power of psychological addiction to something like a skinner box.
dmoral25
That’s why we have to spread this message. Apart from a gamer aspect, there is is a serious moralistic human aspect we have to consider. >>
ThatOtherTransGirl
I've played free to play mmos and seen exactly this. No they don't.
dmoral25
>>What kind of a message will you get generations be taught about this? This isn’t an argument against video games, but against these >>
Ansatsunin
No, they don't. Adults can also fall prey to dopamine addiction. Look at social media and smartphones, and the culture of "notifications".
PhailRaptor
You have clearly never ventured into the mobile game environment. That's where this shit came from, and it's fucking everywhere.
auscaliber
Except the ones who don't, are predisposed to gambling addiction, etc.
dmoral25
>> types of schemes. Parents should know what their children are getting into. So it’s our job to break it down for them so they know.
elShiz
Investigation by Gambling Authority: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefront-2-overwatch-being-investigated-by-gamb/1100-6454989/
elShiz
Possibly breaking gambling laws, there's def a bigger issue than simply not allowing our children access to said game
TheManInTheWall
So the game itself isnt bad, only the rewards and economy?
Slander7
Chess is a pretty good game, but it would suck if 1000 hours of grinding or paying a fee let you play with an extra bishop.
altrdgenetics
not an extra one... just the second one.
finwolven
You get King for free, but the 'castling' ability costs extra. Oh, and for 600 Chess Points you can get a loot-box that might give you...
finwolven
access to the new Premium 'Queen' piece, or an extra Elite 'Knight' piece.
BoozeHound001
I played the beta and found ground game play rather basic and generic. If you're looking to shoot then this is the game for you. The game
BoozeHound001
really shined during space combat. Much smoother but still had basic game play of "protect/destroy target"
UnspokenX
the campaign is a laughable 5 hours long, then you get schooled by people who paid, no matter how good you are for the remaining 2095 hours.
Satherian
I mean, imagine if you play D&D and gain 1 level per year. It may be fun, but if the progression is shit, people will get tired.
blepability
It's been described as an "above average shooter" with a tacked on, hollow-feeling single player campaign.
movethebongos
Game would suck either way. Boring and ugly and void of anything fun or original.
Welve
I would be willing to wager the game isn't spectacular either
HappyJello
Some people don't think they get the expected content for what they paid for, as additional content cost money. For example, you have to
HappyJello
pay to play Vader or Luke Skywalker, whom are a core aspect to the game
elShiz
As stated above though, it's only part of the issue whereas the overall problem is how publishers exploit automatic addiction responses 1
RoStarr
I studied psych and I can verify that the description is dead on and that Skinner's studies are the basis of modern video gambling machines.
Cereaza
But that's not EA's crime here. Almost all modern titles exploit those responses. People are mad at... the extent of it.
RoStarr
There's a difference between respecting psych principles to create an engaging game and exploiting it to force joyless grinding.
Cereaza
*looks left. looks right* Have you played it? Has anyone? Most people I see playing it like the game. Just not the $$ part.
TheManInTheWall
I enjoy opening loot boxes and randomised reward crates and can confirm that what was said about addictive gambling was probably right
elShiz
Thus creating a game where 4k hrs or $2100 is required to unlock nearly basic aspects, not super special limited items or anything
Jonesy343
Halo reach despite some flaws had imo the best customisation system ever, cosmetics only, full armour customisation and all by your choice
Jonesy343
No microtransaction and only using in game currency that was earned by playing and doing well/challenges. No bs
minipancho94
and those are just items in the base game, not those that will be added by DLC and future patches.
Cereaza
By basic aspects, you mean, Every aspect.
elShiz
Ya pretty much.
puxorb
The game is actually fantastic. The gunplay is great, the space combat is exciting, and the cherry on top is the graphics are GORGEOUS.
HeadFullOfEmpty
yeah but.... its EA, so fcuk em. Get Destiny instead.
puxorb
The whole progression/crate thing is not representative of the artists/programmers from the 3 studios that worked on this. Its really sucks.
Cereaza
All the reviews I've read say the same. "This is an awesome game... ... 'cept for the microtransactions."
Jimmyb3121
1/Can confirm. I tried unsuccessfully to get a refund before launch. I started playing and actually really enjoy the game, except when I get
Jimmyb3121
2/slaughtered by someone that bought Vader or Luke.
SchrodingerMil
I mean, I played the campaign and two multiplayer missions then bought Vader.
missboring
Vader and Luke are "cheap" now, I played for a few hours and could afford to unlock both if I wanted to; didn't as have played both in BF1..
missboring
The game is great, you can actually play it and not spend any extra cash... this is a ridiculous post, I never unlock everything in a game..
missboring
no matter how much I play it. You earn credits, and can buy the stuff you want most first, leave all the other shit. No problem.
Veolocity
I found the EA employee.
missboring
I found the sheep.
Veolocity
I haven't bought an EA game in years, buddy. Good job being a corporate shill though. Way to be an apologist for really shitty business.
eroso
+1 for opposing viewpoint. I never use any money in-game so I review games if they didn't even have that option. Is multiplayer offbalanced?
Veolocity
It's pay-to-win with $2100 worth of gambling and random chance. Figure it out.
eroso
I'm only interested about the game as if buying stuff is not even considered as an option. Rewards aren't rewards if u buy them.
eroso
But are you saying that the multiplayer is much easier for players who have all the fancy gear/characters? Vanilla is no good?
Veolocity
That's exactly what I'm saying. The game is designed with the intent that you will become demoralized and resort to paying for loot boxes.
APinkDragon
Yeah. From what I've heard, it's great. Just so hard to progress.
Veolocity
Unless you allow yourself to become addicted to a skinner box.
MrDeadsr
Campaign seems to be meh
APinkDragon
I played the first chapter (I don't own a One or good enough PC, sonI tried it out with a friend). I liked it, and I may buy it just-
APinkDragon
To play the campaign, then try to return it later. Maybe keep it if theybget their shit straight by then...
WalterSobchaksWorldOfPain
I only wanted it for the campaign. I don't play multiplayer games. However now I feel a moral obligation not to purchase this game.
APinkDragon
Exactly. The poor devs must have been brought to tears at whay EA is making them do. An amazing game ruined by their greed.
2lazy2workout
Some of you might find it amusing that Belgium might be banning Battlefront II for violations with gamble-regulations.
optillamanis
Nah, gambling should be legal. Just cause EA's is cunts doesn't mean adults can't make decisions about gambling without government.
AShadyZebra
The problem is that most of the people subject to gambling in video games are not adults.
optillamanis
It essentially is, since almost all of the money comes from parents. There's a very narrow band made of non-adults with their own money.
IronicUsername
I DO find that amusing!
LincolnSiixEcho
"I am amused" "I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOUR NAME WAS KIETH"
pilates4hotties
Before anyone gets their hopes up: Belgium is just looking at it due to complaints. They'll probably find it's not technically gambling.
pilates4hotties
Usually the existing laws hinge on getting cash back as to exclude packs of baseball cards and grab bag kind of things.
Sm9yCg
And if Belgium does, the other EU nations will follow. That's half a billion potential customers lost.
elShiz
Sauce: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefront-2-overwatch-being-investigated-by-gamb/1100-6454989/
ragekritz
we need that shit in america
zenoshogun
Yes that IS a fun fact.
OCDToTheDeath
The UK is investigating gambling in video games which could lead to legislation against these things. It could just up age ratings though.
slenders
Knowing the Belgian government. They just want to be able to get a piece of that income
HMatti
Altough as a belgian i think it probably wont go trough( or how it is written). Because they already had a discussion like this and said 1/2
HMatti
Lootcrates are not gamblin because you always get something. 2/2
AliBarber
I hope a lot of countries do that. NZ is particularly against gambling
esterchestermin
Our most famous building is literally a gambling beacon owned by a Casino...what gives you that idea???
Auxientius
The giant hypodermic needle
MerToo
the government that let that atrocity happen was more about selling NZ out to chinese casino companies than anything Kiwis considered good.
AliBarber
^^this
PrincessDonaldTrumpBANNED2
Are pokemon, mtg and other trading cards banned?
Typhaonic
The casinos were removed from pokemon games because of international issues like this. Idk about card packs.
Razblaze
MTG is definitely pay to win. I remember a week 1 tournament, the regulars, some of whom participated in state or national tournaments
Razblaze
already copied the pro MTG player deck builds that were worth $300+. I was able to find the exact decks of 3-4 players online in a pro list.
Razblaze
I never played a tournament again. I can't spend $300+ every few months to remain competitive and I hate copying decks. That's why I love
Razblaze
"LCG" Living Card Game. Take MTG and remove the random boosters and replace with a set 60 card expansion.
IcyLucario
I don't play MTG, are pro decks in MTG the type of thing you're really destined to lose against? I play PKMN:TCG(well, the online) and-
IcyLucario
-you see people copy pro decks, but since it goes on luck and deck building, creativity pays off more than laziness. Since there's always-
IcyLucario
(I also know that MTG cards are waaaaay more expensive, yes.)
ultrabla
Hopefully they follow suit with Overwatch, Hearthstone, Magic The Gathering, Pokemon, and the others
IcyLucario
I don't think killing every card game is much of a solution.
ultrabla
My point was just that it’s all just as much gambling when you buy a pack as a loot box and may be worse since most are directed at kids
AncientSeraph
I dislike the lootboxes, but it's not much different from random loot drops in other genres and don't mind it as long as it's for cosmetics.
AncientSeraph
MMORPGs have much, much, much higher grind values for actual beneficial stuff, so can't just blanket-apply the gambling rules to everything.
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
And Overwatch got caught in the crossfire. I wonder whether this leads to a whole domino situation that kills RNG in games.
TemporalOnline
Good.
Hutchy01
We can only hope.
undead4life
RNG can be done properly. As along time player of Monster Hunter games, the RNG reward factor is a positive part of what drives the game 1/2
undead4life
It's making sure it's balanced properly, built to positively reward gameplay & unavoidable. Jim Sterling just did a bit on MH & RNG even 2/2
SuicideIsNotAnOption
RNG keeps MMOs alive though, so they can't completely get rid of it.
BrentSquires
I think it’s dumb to wrap Overwatch in the same boat. Overwatch’s loot boxes are cosmetic only and not gameplay advantages
ultrabla
Its still gambling you aren't paying for something specific you are paying for random stuff its like a slot machine.
BrentSquires
Sure but the progression system in overwatch grants you many ways to get loot boxes, for every level you rank up and some arcade /1
BrentSquires
Modes give you a loot box for 1 win, so you constantly feel like you’re progressing quickly. Not to mention duplicates go to credits /2
Kuroikaze42
It ain't gonna kill RNG, just RNG from paid stuff
Kuroikaze42
It'll kill every kind of loot box system, but not, say, random damage values, because those don't cost money
drame
Rng with monetary connections Maybe but not just rng
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnm
Rng you pay for*** rng you pay for is cancer anyway.
whatiswrongwithyouppl
But my thing is, at least in Overwatch, the crates are for pure aesthetics, not for determining competitive edge like this game
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DontTalkToMeOrMyWaifuEverAgain
Not at all. Cosmetic loot boxes have been around for years, Overwatch actually did it better than TF2 or CSGO
DontTalkToMeOrMyWaifuEverAgain
I'm more than willing to support the Overwatch team for all the content they have given us and will continue too
ThePotatoBandit
Not to mention they're always adding new maps, game modes, and characters for free
YourWaifuIsTrash
And there are cases where even though the item for sale is cosmetic (see CSGO lotto sites), the gambling system is sketchy as fuck.
ukkingwithyourshit
Similar to Siege and it's operators in the base game. Had a very fair unlock system honestly. Everything else purely cosmetic
amorcelestial
And honestly, even the most expensive skins are cheap. I launch the game a few times a week and I more or less own everything in the game
AisforIlliterate
Not the seasonal ones. That's where they get you.
amorcelestial
*everything that I want anyway. Never bought any boxes either, all from just playing
Unsafefurball
Yeah, I have like 10k credits and no new skins to buy
vidiv
then it's time to get the voice lines, highlight intros and victory poses
AisforIlliterate
Here's the thing though: even if it's only aesthetic, I paid $60 to get items advertised to me. Items that I can't unlock without paying 1/?
AisforIlliterate
Since there are so few free loot boxes. Even if there's no gameplay edge, if I want my characters to look cool, I have to spend money, 2/?
AisforIlliterate
and if I don't, I have to stare at all the people who, through luck or payment, got the skin I wanted. It's not as shitty as loot boxes 3/4
YourWaifuIsTrash
Even then, if it's reasonable to get the edge with a little gameplay (see league of legends, where even the most expensive champs take >
YourWaifuIsTrash
A few hours to unlock if you really want them), I'm fine with the game selling a competitive edge.
RaynWisp
I wouldn't call LoL pay-to-win, the champs are expensive but it's also a F2P game... Battlefront 2 is not F2P, everyone paid for it already.
whatiswrongwithyouppl
I think pay to win eliminates the enjoy-ability of the game's primary feature, which is multiplayer. Paying for the game, then not being>
Burnyoureyes
Bit too general: RNG is in pokemon games as well.
GoGoGadgetBinoculars
Nintendo like
solisart
True. But it doesn't cost you $2100 or 4k hours to get all the pokemon, even with rng.
Ivain
RNG? no, but it will probably mean that any games that use paid lootboxes will be 18+ regardless of other content
Hurro
The thing with the Overwatch is it's all aesthetics. If someone wants to make their gun a different color, they can pay extra imo. /1
Hurro
It doesn't change the base game or give an unfair advantage over others. /2
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
I'm not arguing against RNG or OW loot crates, but it feels like if OW can get hit with an investigations (#thanksea), you can follow that
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
logic to a lot of aspects of other games. Like someone commented before me - Magic: the Gathering booster packs, for example.
Abrausedteleprot
M:tG gets a pass because physical cards don't become useless if EA turns the servers off
Lucallia
They've already pretty much deemed OW a non-issue due to the fact that the boxes in OW do not give people unfair gameplay advantages.
ShinyMatador
My buddy wants to know what RNG means... can you tell him this time?
Hutchy01
I'm assuming Random Number Generation which is lootboxes. Have a good night.
undead4life
Lootboxes utilize and exploit RNG. RNG is NOT lootboxes. It's it's own thing that applies to many things, not just videogames, or lootboxes.
Skaarje
Random number generator
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
Random Number Generator. To expand, it's what players call the random aspects of games, like loot tables.
CharlieTangoRomeo
RNG is just the process, it doesn't actually reference what is being produced. They use a random number generator to dictate if an item's 1/
CharlieTangoRomeo
Item/s* will drop as part of a loot box or reward