jackbos
133
79
45
Wording matters
There's no such thing as "free healthcare". The only question is whether you pay for it or the government does with your taxes.
The US government spends more on healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid, and other health programs) than it does on the military. People often don't realize how much nationalized healthcare countries spend on their systems and how deeply the resultant taxes affect all sectors of their economies.
TL;DR: If you call it "free" you're trying to ignore the biggest downsides with the systems.
vermil
And I get called heartless for sayin' this...
drGrafenberg
Nothing is free. We all pay for it, in one way or the other. That can be a good thing.
PSYchr
The alternative is a healthcare system that allows market influences, which inevitably sees costs driven upward to satisfy investors.
NinjaSpork
It's just something people say - like 'hot water heater' - don't need to heat hot water and so forth
omegapulsar
When someone else discounts another person's valid point because a slip in terminology makes them commit a fallacy I discount them
[deleted]
[deleted]
Rednustard
You are an idiot. http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go
mdumbblonde
Between earned income tax credits and subsidized healthcare costs, you could feasibly pay no taxes and have insurance at no cost = free.
travishawkins2199
Sounds like a personal problem, try not to get hung up on semantics. If it's a valid point then it's a valid point.
InterruptingA10
RoosterTheRed
More than half of the discretionary budget ($1.11 trillion) was allocated to the military this year.
Rednustard
Unpopular penguin would speculate that most people who say free are on the lower end of the tax scale
CrimsonBlaze
Apparently people missed the entire week they taught the constitution in school. States can tax. Federal should be funded by tarrifs
7357
Semantics. That's like a scientist saying "I can't take anyone serious that addresses their body mass as weight, because weight is relative"
VidiVeniThenSheLeft
It's considerably shorter than "Single-payer government-provided universal healthcare"
MathiasTolerain
Hey look! OP is incapable of communication unless we cater directly to their definitions of words!
DangerMeme
I get it, but I feel like you're just using that as an excuse to make yourself feel smart.
majestrate
It's implied that "free healthcare" means that citizens do not pay for healthcare out of their pocket; Rather, it's done via taxes.
zarkingphoton
This, OP is just being pedantic.
naidim
The problem is: words mean things. People keep saying "Free" and eventually come to believe it. It's not free, you pay for it, we all do.
majestrate
Don't play to the lowest common denominator. It brings down the group as a whole.
Thetwitchy1
"Free" as in "free taco with your meal","free of legal restrictions", or "free as a discount whore"?
gimmenudesplease
come on op..you know Bernie is gonna make the USA a better place with all his FREE ideas
lonelyfriend
Bernie is an idiot!
TheWolverine
Gotta elect that second messiah
gimmenudesplease
for all the "free" stuff right
tuxisagamer
Taxes are not the worst thing in the universe, so please stop acting like they are.
CrimsonBlaze
People aren't supposed to be taxed you asshat. The US government was meant to be funded with tariffs, which Big Business made sure it wasn't
InterruptingA10
My only issue with taxes is how everyone just wants to tax the nebulous "rich". Things need to be simplified and raised overall.
tuxisagamer
I think that as incomes goes up your effective tax rate should increase. . Someone making 250K should pay a higher rate than someone @ 50k.
InterruptingA10
I agree, I'm not arguing for a flat tax, just something more simple than the mess we have now. and to raise taxes overall.
InterruptingA10
That and "tax the rich!" is bumpersticker. 2/2
jackbos
Taxes are the worst thing for an economy. Please stop acting like they aren't.
tuxisagamer
If that were true then the 1950's would have been the least prosperous decade in US history instead of the most prosperous.
smileEZ1
Do you even understand why the 1950 till 1970's where so prosperous? Huge tech increase. Creating a huge debt with social aid.
tuxisagamer
We were investing in infrastructure, increased social services, and science and funding it through high tax rates. Yes, I do understand why.
lonelyfriend
Taxes suck. Especially when they keep rising and the government takes more of what you earn to pay for people who refuse to get a damn job!
eavalin
you know what sucks more? an one bedroom apartment being 80% of your income in a shitty part of town.
Waganga
I don't mind paying taxes, esp as I appreciate roads, bridges, pubic transport, schools, pell grants, voc rehab programs, etc.
lonelyfriend
You do realize that the tax on gas is supposed to pay for a lot of the roads, & bridges. Yet most of it is spent on bullshit .
Waganga
That's a pretty vague overarching statement.
lonelyfriend
The bullshit part? Or the gas tax part?
tuxisagamer
I don't mind paying my taxes and I certainly wouldn't mind them going up to pay for universal healthcare.
lonelyfriend
If you don't mind my asking, what are you paying in taxes now? 30%, 40%, 50%? Wouldn't you like to keep more of your paycheck??
smileEZ1
Lonely I feel yah. I'm currently at 38% practical tax. With a sub 30k annual income. Now tell me how I'm privileged.
lonelyfriend
And there has been talk about how Bernie would see about raising taxes to 60+%. I want to be able to spend the $$ I earn the way I see fit!
tuxisagamer
1) None of your business 2) I would essentially be trading my healthcare premium for a tax and wouldn't notice much change anyway.
lonelyfriend
1) no problem.
RX78
How are you smart enough to have this convo but not smart enough to realize that no-one means "free" as in "nobody has to pay"?
smileEZ1
So it's okay to lie. Nice ethics. It's okay. I understand. We live in a world of advertising and propoganda.
RX78
Nobody lied. "Free" is an in-group/out-group concept. If I tell you we can go eat some free donuts, this does not imply that nobody paid 1
RX78
for them at any point ever and they are just some magical donuts that appeared one day. It means that you and I are not the ones who have 2
RX78
to immediately shoulder the burden of the cost of the donuts if we wish to eat them. Super simple stuff man. 3
smileEZ1
Unfortunately people (not you or me) are dumb enough to not connect the word "free" to the concept of taxes and government spending. 1
smileEZ1
They only connect "free" to "not my responsibility". "Free" to "unlimited" or valueless. They don't see full responsibility of payment.
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
It's funny when I read septics spout shit like this, I KNOW they're ignorant. See, US spending on healthcare is NOT higher than the military
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
It shows they don't understand the difference between discretionary and mandatory spending. The two don't even come out the same budgets
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
It also ignore the economics of scale, where true nationalised healthcare systems reduce cost of spending through leveraging large scale
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
against traditionally high cost products - for example, one drug that I've marketed before, yearly cost to NHS is ~£1200, yearly cost for in
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
the US? Over $14,000 (~£9000). And that's a cheap medication in the grand scheme of things.This oversight of conflating true one-payer
IWishPeopleWouldStopStealingMyUsernames
healthcare systems, with systems like "medicare" where the government just pays private costs on behalf of individuals is pretty much failin