MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
1254
50
25
Source: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ypibbGTKKfBCdsjWj/what-s-your-peace-plan
Oct 10, 2023 6:57 PM
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
1254
50
25
Source: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ypibbGTKKfBCdsjWj/what-s-your-peace-plan
spLagger
I don't see much different between the two
nowinsituation
1949 to....NOW....just ignore everything that happened in between....
lurkilydurkiler
I’m so excited to see which of my Facebook friends are holy war experts/ historians.
JericoJones23
This is correct.
mward1984
So, was it here, India or Afghanistan where we the British invented leaving a country in the middle east in the middle of the night with no forward warning?
quietwalker
There was a whole plan with more than a year forwarning. They worked with their primarily Arab allies so that the Arabs would get what is now Jordan (then Trans-Jordan) and the Jewish population would get the less desirable Palestine. That's how all the Arab states were able to coordinate to attack the newly declared nation the day it was declared. Lots of notice.
wandermanspacebot
Fact: Israel repeatedly breaks international law by stealing land from Palestinians.
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
Correct. Not dismissing that fact, but just pointing out that Palestine wasn’t a self-governing nation until very recently. The Palestinian Territories were in despute before the Oslo accords with other Arab nations being in control of them during the Israeli-arab war.
HeresYourSauce
Can someone give me a rundown of what's going on? (Or link somewhere, if it's not unreasonably long)
sniggly5212
So there are great links and synopses, but try to understand that "whats going on here" could be a 4 year degree. But you could probably cover the last 30 years or so in a good afternoon read without leaving out too much context.
spLagger
Pre-1947 Palestine mostly normal poor country, very few Jewish people. Europe sent crazy amounts of Jewish people and lots more following the aftermath of WW2. British tried to keep rule over Palestine, but left. Built up tensions of all the jewish immigrants rose a movement that culminated in the UN trying to broker a deal 1947 Partition plan you see above. From then on multiple conflicts outbroke, Palestine weakened. 1967 Israel invades many of the major cities that have Palestinians in them>
spLagger
with a two prong approach, force the people out and simultaneously setup settlements. It's been ongoing. Reason it's brought up is Hamas (current control over Palestine) has launched a new attack on Israel and it's biggest in a long time.
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
/gallery/4PyCiZI/comment/2355518065 too lazy to type it all again, but essentially, the situation is pretty nuanced. Palestine. Palestine want Palestine until recently. the British mandate established proposed borders for the territory known as Palestine It was captured territory that was part of the Ottoman Empire.then the partition was made to establish borders for the newly created Israel so Jewish people could have a homeland (after centuries of persecution) Arab nations. /
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
Then arab nations went to war with Israel and the territories that is known as Palestine currently were controlled by Egypt in Jordan. Palestine didn’t become self governing until the Oslo accords
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
But since then, isreel has become increasingly fascist and become an apartheid state, taking over Palestinian territory which of course causes friction with one of the governing Palestinian bodies Hamas (which many now consider a terrorist organization)
jj86
The premise that "You realistically can't have a viable nation without having geographic contiguity" is silly. I understand a swiss cheese country is unrealistic but the US has Alaska and Hawaii which are disconnected from the contiguous states. Does Alaska not work because Canada separates it? No, because we are adults and don't create unrealistic transit issues.
Sorrontis
While I agree with your point, Canada & US are allies with strong political bonds. Palestine & Israel are constantly at each others throat.
jj86
If Canada & the US would never come to a consensus about borders and responsibilities, we would have issues. Neither country bullies the other.
Sorrontis
Canada's not in a position to bully :D
Erdanya
The US is also a superpower, Alaska is mostly empty and surrounded by water, and Hawaii is a remote island with no neighbors. Comparing that to increasingly smaller enclaves of people within a beleaguered nation that itself is surrounded by openly hostile neighbors with by now some 75 years of near constant strife is *really* silly.
lrateyourrig
Anything from a more credible site? (Not that yours is discredited, just that it has no credibility)
spLagger
It's kind of true in some ways, but that's like saying all the open space in the US is just public land for the taking. Also prior to 1947 British and others brought in crazy amounts of Jewish immigrants. It's what started the initial uprisings. Jewish rebels turned basically into a movement and a force and rest is kind of history. 1967 was the big turning point too when Israel did a two prong setup, forcefully remove Palestinians and set up settlements.
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
So just a quick Wikipedia search on the mandate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine for the partition map here, you’ll notice that all of the Arab nations voted against this and the subsequent events section, you’ll notice that the plan was never realized https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine and /
Cargobiker530
This is promoting the genocide of palestinian peoples: stop it.
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
in the course of the war section here, you can see the territories occupied in the Arab offensive https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War and the Palestinian national authority wasn’t established until Oslo accords resolved https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority
MAXIMUMPOTASSIUM
More of how I understand it in this thread /gallery/4PyCiZI/comment/2355518677