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Feb 13, 2020 2:04 AM
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reverendunk
I had a friend who'd to call me "emo" when I was having a depressive episode. Then they got depression. Managed to not rub it in their face.
Virgozer
I want to downvote this just because I despise that mindframe. You get a +1, though, because we need to get real with ourselves.
TacTheScribbler
My neighbor insults her SO like this. I could hear her screeching into her phone through the wall. Pissed me off on both counts.
Hitsi
Welcome to bittertown, where nothing productive is ever done and everybody sabotages everybody out of spite.
DarrenGreen
Yep. I'd hoped there would be some effort towards solutions here... and there are, but there's also a lot who think being bitter is enough.
CabinetDisplayPicnic
That sucks. I'm a woman, but if any dudes need to talk go ahead and drop me a message. Unbiased and experienced with anxiety and depression.
Goblor
im honestly just really glad realising 99% of my shortcomings are from adhd which is easily treated with medication
Redangle
IDK if anyone elses feels this way but, whenever people want to help me or try to be nice it makes me feel bad. Like I failed or something.
DropDrop
A study done of a tribe found that the men who helped other men the most, were the biological father of some of that man's children. 1/2
DropDrop
So even if it makes you feel bad, your wife will still appreciate the man who helped you... maybe that's where the instinct came from 2/2
RandyTheDancer
In my country ‘mens groups’ have started in some places, and its helps men talk about their life and issues. No therapist, just talking
rv6502
And also "hanging out with the guys" is good therapy for men. We all know at least one guy whose controlling wife doesn't let him hang out.
rv6502
This lacks recognition. But when it's reversed (man doesn't let wife go out to see her friends) that's correctly called Domestic Abuse.
gamgeegirl3
johnnyratbastard
Yeah, heard it too many times.
Tpyle0516
I'll help any guy friend who feels out of whack. Man I've been there shit sucks. I've had meltdowns because I have no one to talk to without
Tpyle0516
Paying someone
BetterDeadThanRed
Same, man. Grateful that I got a buddy to talk to who understands. We vent to each other about our dude stuff and it really helps.
BetterDeadThanRed
Also feels more genuine and meaningful than speaking with a therapist. Not to knock therapists, I just could never really speak to one.
PardusXY
My only suggestion, is don't overextend yourself, some people are emotional vampires, and will kill any drive to help those who need it.
tzap
Where I live this has changed a lot in the past 10 or so years. Still depends a bit on where you live and what kind of people you hang 1/?
tzap
with, but for e.g. me, where I work and with my friends it's fairly possible to talk mental health issues. At the same time it's still 2/?
tzap
also important to get some professional help for more serious issues. Friends and colleagues can share their experiences and listen now 3/?
tzap
and then, but it's very taxing to feel like you have to take care of someone else or have to be there for them all the time. 4/4
idontfuckingknowwhythisisnottaken
Thats what killed one of my friends father...He fell victim to suicide after 2 years of depression and doctors told him he was fine....
vigilantvigilante
Women perpetuate this as much as men. Even progressive movements still treat men as disposable, especially feminism ie "men's tears" merch
PlankTableGo
My parents response to my (2) suicide attempts: "Just get over it, you are too old to still be dealing with your childhood bullies"
Titaantjes
Wow, that's taking insensitive to the next level. I'm sorry that happened and I hope you can find support elsewhere
MorbidGiraffe
I have heard this so many times in my life. Get help if you can, it wont go away, but you can hopefully find ways to diminish the trauma.
GodOfTheUnderWorldHades
This, finally said fuck it and started talking to a therapist
kittykat
Not all that different for women.
underwaterscubaminer
I have guy friends and we talk about our mental health all the time. Wish it could be like that for everyone.
GUNSUP0331
And mental health professionals cost hella $$
DarrenGreen
Check out local community centers and colleges - often there's free or cheap therapy there. Generally students, but they can still be good.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
It's almost as if sexism hurts everyone and we should work together to end it, instead of childishly arguing over who's hurt most.
SteveTheEgg
The problem is it gives both sides power benefits which neither are eager to give up.
kojenk
Anyone who is putting men and womens issues at conflict or only brings one up in a discussion about the other does not care for either
kojenk
Both deserve their own forums of discussions to deal with their unique issues & if brought up together should only be to address both united
PardusXY
Agreed, but standpoint theory is touted by people who don't even know what it's called.
AsheLake
What?
TheVapeCrusader
This doesn't just apply to sex
iamthemadz
Nonsense. Only women and minorities are allowed to have valid issues
iamwang
How about instead of ending some external evil, you become better at handling what life throws at you, including sexism.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
How about instead of getting rid of the wolves in your house, you become better at fighting them off?
BabyGroot
The main difference is whether or not you can talk about how badly you a treated because of your sex without being called an incel.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
While men have been degraded for speaking out on gender injustice, most of the insults are of the "not a real man" type. "Incel" is most (1)
TheWombatStrikesAgain
often used for a very specific subtype of these people, usually with an extra dose of bitterness and entitlement. (2)
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Also let's not pretend there's not a shitload of derogatory terms that have been used on women who complained about sexism.
Hambinger
Therapy is nice and all, but have you tried bottling your emotions until your heart fucking explodes while eating spaghetti at 55?
SedativeComet
Women: men should feel free to express themselves too. also women: why would I be with him he’s so emotionally weak
DropDrop
Some men: women are the source of some of my pain. Society: YoU'rE SaYiNg YoU HaTe WoMeN?!?
rv6502
CrY mE a RiVeR! PaTrIaRcHy HuRtS mEn ToO!
LuminousExpanse
"It's like I'm dating another woman!"
DarrenGreen
Yep. And that shit is how you know she's not worth dating. If she won't take what she expects to give, she's not worth a second glance.
DarrenGreen
Men: Men should be able to express themselves. Also men: Expressing yourself makes you a pussy. People are different from one another.
LuminousExpanse
both statements are accurate
ItsMoreComplicatedThanThis
The term for that is "Toxic masculinity". And it hurts everybody.
shagadelicrelic
Divine masculinity: a concept. Discuss
BobMcVagene
Divine feminity: a concept. Discuss
shagadelicrelic
No one? Very well. Divine masculine: protector, provider. Divine feminine: healer, nurturer. Both can be found in any gender. 1
shagadelicrelic
..so instead of arguing back and forth about which is more toxic, an option is to notice how traits of either can complement each other
shagadelicrelic
Rather than yelling "no ur toxic" about what's wrong, an option is to focus on what's healthy, and to celebrate the F/M balance as divine.
DropDrop
It's a very victim blaming term. Do we call a woman being afraid to leave her abusive spouse, toxic femininity. 1/2
DropDrop
What if she's staying due to the belief that a good woman pleases her husband? Would we say she was taught a form of toxic femininity? 2/2
shagadelicrelic
Yes. 100% yes. Internalized toxic femininity: blind obedience, dependence, beating around the bush instead of communicating directly, etc 1/
shagadelicrelic
Think about traditional US marriage vows. "Love, honor, and obey." And women were socialized to look forward to that as the best day in 2/
shagadelicrelic
..their lives. Instead of being blamed, the victim must be encouraged to take control/responsibility in a safe and self-empowering way. 3/
subzero600
Toxic masculinity is just a buzz word created to blame men's issues on maleness instead of trying to fix things.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
That's not what it is, at all.
DarrenGreen
It is, but it's one of those terms that causes problems because it sounds like something it isn't. Makes it sound like masculinity 1/2
DarrenGreen
itself is toxic, as opposed to just parts of it. People hear that even when they're told the definition. I think we really need a new term.
Wemly
The term REALLY triggers boomers.
DropDrop
Yeah it would actually make a lot more sense to say, it's society's toxic view of masculinity, not some aspect of masculinity.
solarshado
Doesn't help that a lot of people *do* seem to use it in the "all masculinity is toxic" sense. Add in the internet's "amplify the extremes">
solarshado
> effect and you've got a perfect PR disaster.
PardusXY
I have suggested Toxic Gender Roles, but more importantly, the people who use the term, want that term, which tells me they like it that way
Boomzsplat
Sadly. Boils down to men not standing together, cuz DUDES
DropDrop
I'm all for men standing together, as long as they make a place for there women as well. Otherwise it's a sexist boy's club.
DarrenGreen
I respect making places for women, but sometimes men don't want to talk about stuff in front of women because it's potentially 1/2
DarrenGreen
something that could make them lose face, or something hard to talk about, like anger. That said, if we're talking activism, I am for 2/3
DarrenGreen
everybody staying together regardless of gender, always. And paying attention to make sure everybody gets respect and speaking time, too.
PardusXY
Some of us are, but we're not very popular.
monkofshadows
omh2
As of 2017 the US has 2 registered domestic abuse shelter for men and about 2200 for women.
rv6502
*Men and their children. Very important detail. If they don't go to a DV shelter fathers can be and have been charged with kidnapping.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Domestic abuse shelters are required for people who don't have the money to leave their situation. Women being abused are often not /1
rv6502
If men leave with the kids to a hotel (tHeY hAvE mOnEy) without going to a DV shelter that's kidnapping & the father gets charged & arrested
rv6502
And then the father somehow still has to show up to work, while somehow protecting his kids, while they're where? Left alone at the motel?
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Do you think the shelter has a daycare? You're leaving your kids alone there too. The staff isn't there to babysit them.
rv6502
That's even more reasons, not fewer, to address the sexist lack of services for fathers because they're ALSO held financially responsible.
rv6502
Thank you. You just demonstrated why there's an even more urgent need for even better domestic violence shelters for men.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
What? I just said they *don't* babysit your kids for you. It's the same issue whether he's at a shelter or a hotel.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
allowed to work. Men being abused usually still work. So they have the financial ability to get away. /2
DropDrop
That's really sad when you think about it. They have the means to get away from their abusers but don't.
rv6502
Because if they leave with the kids to a hotel to protect them without going to a shelter that's kidnapping and the father gets arrested.
rv6502
this worldview is devoid of fathers in need to protect their kids from the abusive wife. Cases of kids killed by parent is 68% by mothers
blairmichod
Citation needed.
rv6502
Plus his "Men work" means it's even harder to escape: Forced to leave your kids to an abusive wife knowing she's gonna take it out on them
rv6502
Even if "men being abused usually still work" can afford a motel Where is a father going to leave his kids while going to work? The motel?
NotIntoTheWholeBrevityThing
LORDBUMBLE
This guy is getting so many reps in
Sarcasticbombastic
We're on it!
JonShard
I don't got no time to play around, what is this?
Colopty
This song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcLIfSC4OE
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
Mulan, Disney movie. "Be a man" is the chorus of a song the character sings, starting with "Let's get down to business"
AFlyingPrius
To defeat. The huns.
Corynthos
The huns are gone. Next?
AFlyingPrius
The human race!
Corynthos
r/HFY might have something to say about that.
10tacles
Or are they?
jq879
Did they send me daughters, when I asked for sons
SLCtechie
You’re the saddest bunch I ever met, but you can bet before we’re through,
MFfromHell
Mister, I'll make a man out of you!
theuberkevlar
There's some bile in a bag in my shoe.
CharmingPrism
BE A MAN!
DaSauceSeeker
Ngl this is definitely the reaction I get when I reach out to my fellow guy friends, and it legit does feel like drowning every friggin time
MyDogAttacksTrees
Be a man
DaSauceSeeker
eetsumkaus
You need better guy friends. "Pansy stuff" is what your bros are for!
DaSauceSeeker
I agree, but unfortunately I've never had much luck in the way of making friends "IRL". Workin on it, but progress is a difficult path
PardusXY
So make good friends in fake reality, eventually you'll find someone you can visit from time to time.
SociallyAwkwardCanadianMoose
I'm sorry you get that :(
DaSauceSeeker
Appreciate the sentiment, but I'm used to it (getting more so everyday haha), so no worries :)
Azagol
Listen man I dont know what your going through but im sorry it takes a toll on you. You are deserving of love and compassion fuck those guys
DaSauceSeeker
Haha thanks, but they aren't bad people just the type who think that everyone has depression/anxiety/autism/etc to some degree
AlcoholicsAnonymousBYO
Yeah, found out the same thing. Later I worked out they were pretty overloaded with their own exhaustion, stress, grief etc
DaSauceSeeker
Yeah, I rather think it's the case here as well However, they are still afraid to fully confront the issues (we've talked a bit about it b4)
HypnagogicHallucinations
"Not Gonna Lie" (It took me a minute.)
DaSauceSeeker
It's ok, I actually had to have someone tell me what it meant when I first learned it....
Hellstorm99
Shitty as this sounds, I hear the whole “be a man” bullshit from more women than men.
Iloveanonymityandilovebeingnoticed
I’m in a church group w/4 couples,3 men are on anti anxiety meds-the3rd just talking about this, other2being encouraging. It’s not all guys.
DaSauceSeeker
I'm not religious, but I have actually gone to a few different church groups, met good people each time, but so far nothing lasting
memno919
That'll teach you!
DaSauceSeeker
I think I need summer school... I seemed to have missed the lesson
Mycologics
Out of curiosity. Are you American?
DaSauceSeeker
Mycologics
I ask because I feel in American culture it's much more of a thing then in European cultures. At least in my experience
ButCanHeDoItOnAColdRainyNightAtStoke
Allow me to vent though, I faced a situation of "be a man" where it wasn't so much I lacked males I could talk to like the comments say, but
ButCanHeDoItOnAColdRainyNightAtStoke
more like they were all successful where I struggled, and I faced deep shame in admitting I needed help. To this day I never told my friends
ButCanHeDoItOnAColdRainyNightAtStoke
that I admired about my problem, I told my recent partner who is helping me face it, but every time I had the chance to tell the biomed
ButCanHeDoItOnAColdRainyNightAtStoke
student, or engineer student, these successful peers that I was scared of even just signing up for uni and quite literally needed them to
ButCanHeDoItOnAColdRainyNightAtStoke
re enrol me and do it entirely for me, I shied away and just said "yeah nah bro I'm halfway through my marine science major!" but that for
DaSauceSeeker
Great friends otherwise, just learned not to talk about "pansy" stuff work them, instead I talk to my therapist and other friends ;)
thenumericdolfin942
Sounds like shit friends tbh
Muttons1337
I talk to my "manly" friends about sensitive topics all the time and they are super supportive as are my other friends. Sorry to hear that!
mcampSpaceWave
That's fair. Us men (and women) often have unhealthy coping mechanisms when dealing with certain things, deflecting, belittling, or anger.
Assbandit
Do you have any gay friends? We tend to be more open and a bit over the stigma of dudes sharing stuff without judgement or shame.
Jdonkay
Very true
DaSauceSeeker
I did actually, before I moved. Great group...actually met two of them when I took a girl to a Lady Gaga concert. We were just friends >>
DaSauceSeeker
>> I wanted more and tried to impress her (I'm an idiot I know haha) one of the guys actually ended up trying to talk me up to her >>
DaSauceSeeker
>> to no avail, but it made for a really surprisingly fun event
ArgJargon
Gay guys I've known probably have more judgement in them than any 3 women, difference between them and guys is it's usally paired with sass.
Assbandit
1. Stereotypical and generalizing statement, nice. I mean I could say "straight dudes I've known have more toxicity in them than anyone
Assbandit
2. else combined" but I'd be wrong and also I dont use anecdotal evidence to form opinions about a majority of people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
WKBetafiggit
I don't know if this is just an stereotype, but my gay friend is a better listener and more empathetic than all my hetero male friends.
WKBetafiggit
Truly a blesding to have him as friend. Great dude overall regardless of his sexual orientation.
Swedash
This makes me appreciate my friends a lot more, most of my guy friends are open to discuss such things but even then it's easier with women.
ArgJargon
As a man I have a few guy friends who are actually good about this, but I find its always a 1on1 conversation. I have a theory about guys /
ArgJargon
having even larger problems with discussing this kind of thing in a larger group of male friends. So often vulnerability is equated with/
ArgJargon
weakness, and you dramatically increase the odds of someone taking it like that, and then group think takes over and you get shit on.
ArgJargon
So figure out who you can trust, and take a risk. Guys are a huge herd of individuals thinking they gotta slog it alone.
banneduser2
You need new friends
BornToDoStuff
I dont even reach out anymore. The ones that would get it I dont have the confidence to tell and the others are too manly.
DaSauceSeeker
Bruh, I totally understand Honest disclosure is a very very difficult challenge It doesn't make it easier when you get the "man-up" reply >>
DaSauceSeeker
But not everyone thinks the same way. One person's opinion is not the same as another's...you never know until you ask/speak up
BornToDoStuff
You right. I know you right. But also it set a precedence so now I am worried about talking out my feelings with my bros.
BornToDoStuff
Emotions overriding the logic, ya know?
Exevium
Gotta be honest, few things are as relieving as talking about feelings with my ma.
PardusXY
Also men's mental isn't solved by "You just need to cry more", and anger is a legitimate emotion, we don't have to police our own feelings -
PardusXY
to make you feel safe.
SpikeMarshall
This is literally the stupid "if you can't handle me at my worst...." meme. Even as an autistic person I recognise appropriate emotional 1/
SpikeMarshall
2/ responses are important and I can't just go around like an unruly toddler. Humans are a social animal, built on social constructs
Iamaperson1166
"I'M NOT BEING EMOTIONAL! *SLAMS PLATE IN TO WALL*
tzap
For me it's not about safety, it's about empathy and that others' emotions kinda stick to me as well. It's fine sure if a colleague is 1/?
tzap
.. pissed at a client's silly demand and is bemoaning them for it, but being like, legit *angry*, or shouting or something, is just not 2/?
tzap
.. OK as a normal way of operating. Sometimes it happens and emotions get the best of people. But better be just sometimes. 3/3
PardusXY
During work, it's about being professional, and there are ways to decompress, retail backrooms are a pit of swearing sometimes.
DarrenGreen
Yep. Just be aware that expressing requires doing it to someone you trust. If you don't want to scare that person away, make it clear 1/2
DarrenGreen
that your anger is controlled, and not an attack aimed at a person who's trying to help. Express, yes. Yell and rant and throw shit, no. 2/2
PardusXY
Oh fuck off, if you're the target of my anger, I don't need to hold your hand when I am expressing my grievances with you.
PardusXY
Gotta love jack off who mute you, just for the record, I don't think violence is justified, but this douches "make it clear your anger is -
PardusXY
controlled" sounds like you'll need consent forms to be angry with someone.
DarrenGreen
Do you want that person to stay in your life? Then yes, you do. Not yelling, screaming, or throwing things is kindergarten shit. 1/2
DarrenGreen
Having a grievance with someone does not give you carte blanche on how it's appropriate to treat them. 2/2
theuberkevlar
Acknowledging that you have anger doesnt require you to be an asshat about it.
LoneDumpsterChild
I'm just just going to keep bottling everything up tbh, anyone I talk to about mental health stops talking to me after awhile
Huevos
On the flip side of that, I have had to stop being friends with someone bc every hangout became free therapy to them. It felt awful.
PardusXY
It's about volume, and it's hard to not overburden a single person, if you want to let it flow, a detached professional is best.
StevenNick
I've been there. It'll be okay. You will find someone willing to listen. Worst case scenario, find someone who's a known complainer. Join up
theuberkevlar
Do you have the option for counseling?
vipe650r
People who do that are scared of the demons they might have to recognize In themselves if they admit yours could be real...
vipe650r
God made us w/ emotions and to need to talk - to brothers, fathers, counselors, and just fellow humans.
Catsloveart
It’s all about presentation. There is a difference saying you struggle with depression. And talking about it all time.
niceblueshirt
Unnecessary assumption that someone is talking about it all the time. Also, even if all the time, maybe there's a reason
NaughtButOne
Not really. 98% of people don't want to hear either. At best you get a "oh, that sucks" and then you have to talk about something else.
diar
Interesting, but I don’t think that’s quite true. While many may not want to listen, many are also struggling themselves so they feel 1/
diar
If they start talking about it with someone else it may take them to a place they don’t want to go to with their own struggles 2/
diar
I say this from personal experience because it’s a daily struggle working in the entertainment industry. Long hours, bad schedules and 3/
SerpentWearer
One problem I've encountered is when someone tells me they're depressed is I don't know how to help. I try to be supportive and listen...
SerpentWearer
but I'm not trained to help fix those kinds of problems. So aside from trying to be a decent person and a comforting friend I'm at a loss.
Jepalaudsadsin
That's all we're looking for. We want to vent, not for you to solve our problems.