AttemptedCleverity
58101
2218
48
Oct 18, 2024 10:36 AM
AttemptedCleverity
58101
2218
48
shortyjjp
Happy to say, as an election judge, my poling place is excited to get provisional voters. It means we get the provisional judge to do some work instead of sit on their but all day
Sangueffusor
I see this come up every voting season, and it always makes me wonder, "After casting your provisional ballot, then what do you do?"
greggor
You have to immediately resolve the issue with your registration. Call whether voter hotline is associated with your county or state and ask for help.
In the majority of cases, you will fail. Most states do not allow same-day voter registration, and if your name was purged from the voter rolls, there’s nothing you can do to get your vote counted. If it is an error on the part of the poll staff, though, then you’re likely to be counted once someone reviews it.
strictly4lurking
q34tw4
it could/should all be online
DomeGuy
This is NOT true nationwide! Only 48 states allow for provisional ballots, and a good number of those who do do not allow you to cure your vote if it turns out you voted in the wrong place.
Know your laws, people! https://ballotpedia.org/What_is_a_provisional_ballot%3F_(2024)
memeseeks
Don't let the Nazis steal votes
Valtrith
Also, do your voting as early as possible if possible!
NostrilSnowboarder
This coming Tuesday baby!!!
FormalWareBytes
Commenting for more viz
ImCommanderShepardandthisismyfavoritepostonthefrontpage
I can apparently vote tomorrow. I wasn't aware early voting was ever this early.
Valtrith
FUCK YEAH!! Proud of you for looking, Commander!! Just, don't dance when you get there, don't want you arrested for attempted election interference ;D
ImCommanderShepardandthisismyfavoritepostonthefrontpage
Valtrith
Magnificent O.O
germican12
When shit is so messed up and it takes 8 hours in line to vote if you are then allowed to vote at all, why doesn't everyone simply vote via mail???
Dappin
This happened to me as a 20 year old college student. In Miami. In 2000. Check your voter registration!!
mrsdowneyjr
But also: if you didn't register, you need to. Seriously. Register. And check it in time before every election if you need to. Do it again if you move or change your name. Vote where you live today. Take an id and a bill. Don't give them a chance to turn you away and remember: they only work there once every couple of years, are paid $6/ hour with 5 hours training and have the day off because they don't have a better job.
stonerhino
Check your vote status BEFORE you show up and make yourself a problem/target for security.
NostrilSnowboarder
I'm bringing my voter registration confirmation, 3 billing letters to my current address and my passport, I say you all do too. Don't leave any doubt and make them look and feel stupid and powerless. If you don't receive a registration cancellation from your town or city hall, they got nothing on you!!
stonerhino
Raising heck will make YOU the problem, not them. Now, if you have everything correct and are turned away, you have other civil options to take action.
NostrilSnowboarder
I'm not walking in and waiving it around. I'm just saying to be prepared if something should arise.
thenonworkinglight
Hi, Election Clerk in PA here. Ask for the JoE (Judge of Elections). They'll walk you through a provisional ballot, which will be submitted separately to confirm your eligibility.
Happyhenlisa
The 1st time I voted was 36 years ago. I tried to show my ID because even at 19 years old, I had more common sense than the morons running it. I could go vote under anyone's name, by just knowing their address.
greggor
Yeah, go for it. You’ll be committing a felony and then never be allowed to vote again. I’m sure it’ll work out great.
Quaxx
The US voting system appears wierd to me.
AsAnItalianItsDifficultTalkingOnTheWebCauseIcantUseMyHands
It’s weird that they just accept it and don’t demand a change
cjandstuff
It's even more fun realizing that every state has their own rules and laws on voting.
Hoiloidl
Honestly, far as I understand things, it's every city or at least county have their own rules about t a lot of things.
alwaysacleric
If it was easy to vote, Republicans would never win
ProbablyWrong524
They openly admit this.
Anamesolongnoonecouldhavepossiblychosenit2
It appears weird to us as well. Don't even get me started on gerrymandering
Joeybigtimes
There’s an awesome YouTube video by the map men about this. https://youtu.be/cwBslntC3xg?si=nIbZpY5sS8daveJ7
Newclothes
If, as per @littlecoatfatguy , "Federal law requires that I be given access to provisional ballot." if my name is not on the register, is true, that means that people could vote, at least try to, more than once, but that also means those folks, who actually vote, or even try to vote twice, will be responsible for actual voter fraud.
pretyinpink
They told me, you all ready voted. Clearly not lady you marked off the wrong damn name!
erock1918
Stop the steal?
WellAckchually
Any advice about US election law that doesn't list a state is suspect at best. In several states, including mine, if this happens you just provide proof of your current residence and register at the polls and cast a normal ballot. There are very few valid provisional scenarios here because of that but we get people that have read these things and start making a fuss about voting a provisional ballot which would be worse for them than just reregistering
ADDGirl
Yes, Minnesota has same day registration.
or0b0ur0s
Not that it's a reason to refrain from doing this... but in most cases, that just lets them throw it away later, instead of immediately. I've read that, at least in some states, you literally have until the end of the business day on Election Day to get your registration squared away with the election office... who will be swamped and unavailable, naturally.
The entire point of wrecking people's registrations without their knowledge is precisely to generate provisional ballots which can't >
or0b0ur0s
be legitimized in time, and therefore can be thrown out, uncounted. In past elections, there have been reports of people being given a provisional ballot unasked-for, and not told what it was, nor that their registration was missing or invalid.
What they should do is be required by law to notify you that your registration has been challenged or revoked. Let them make 100,000 phone calls the week before the election and see how they do with their "electioneering" then.
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guyanesebro420
Can confirm
littlecoatfatguy
Don't use the word "request".
"Federal law requires that I be given access to a provisional ballot."
retrostone21
Don't use "Federal". 'Incipient Fascists hate this one simple life hack. By law, I get a voice'
DomeGuy
Federal law required all but 2 states to set up a provisional ballot system. States can vary WIDELY based on how you can request one, what it means, and what the process is to cure it.
SarcasticCant
Bring some protection too. There's gonna be extra "enthusiastic" people thinking you are giving fake votes or taking votes away... or whatever their narrative is nowadays
blainetog
We're not composing a magic spell, nor are we trying to invoke our right to an attorney in a way that the cops can't weasel out of. You can start by requesting a provisional ballot and then switch to demanding one if the poll worker is belligerent.
JusticePhrall
request
1) v. a way of saying that a party to a lawsuit (or usually the attorney) is asking or demanding a judge to act (such as issuing a writ) or demanding something from the other party (such as production of documents). 2) n. the act of asking or demanding.
littlecoatfatguy
Absolutely zero polling-place volunteers will use or understand that definition of the word.
Technically accurate, functionally meaningless.
JusticePhrall
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Request
LoveMyEmotionalBaggage
While it is possible the poll worker is turning you away because they are thumbing the scale, it is also possible they are ignorant to the law. You request, and cite that federal law requires they provide a provisional ballot. No reason to go from 0 to 60 that doesn’t help the next person, being calm and explaining educates those that are ignorant.
If you don’t think poll workers can be ignorantly to the law, it happened at my polling station during the primaries. 1/2
littlecoatfatguy
Nobody said anything about going 0 to 60, that's your own interpretation and I agree that would be counter-productive.
If you think it makes it politer to say "okay, no worries, we can just do the provisional-ballot thing instead", until you've established whether the poll worker knows how this works, there's nothing wrong with that.
Point is, you're not requesting a favor, you're asserting your legal right, and absolutely nothing stands in the way of doing that calmly and politely.
LoveMyEmotionalBaggage
When I said I would need a provisional ballot she said “oh yeah!” And directed me to the person in charge.
During the primary it would be foolish for her to be doing this for nefarious means when as a democrat in a red area most candidates were running unopposed and any choice wouldn’t impact the Republican candidates.
Arbitrarynamehere
I was a poll worker last election and I've never heard of any not knowing about provisional ballots. We do training on it weeks before the election, and pretty much robotically let you know about your options if there's ever an issue getting you checked on election day.
deadlyJumper
People complaining about this are ignoring the fact that ACAB and judges can and will use your word choice against you and interpret it in the most ridiculous ways to screw you over and no doubt MAGA plants will do the same. Or have you really never heard of cops NOT getting a lawyer for someone in custody because they didn't phrase it the perfect way that they couldn't "misunderstand" it.
SalamanderBSC
For any doubting the malicious misinterpreting: https://abovethelaw.com/2017/10/suspect-asks-for-a-lawyer-dog-willfully-ignorant-court-denies-comma-counsel/
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littlecoatfatguy
I wish that were the whole conversation, but we both know it’s not.
deadlyJumper
But... since when has that stopped MAGA both in the upper levels or those at the bottom who eat up all their lies and believe it as gospel? They know justice isn't going to come swift enough to REALLY stop them, unless you're saying THIS particular action out of the MANY is gonna bring the hammer down before January.
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littlecoatfatguy
Who added the word “demand” to this discussion?
sambaah05
Thats overly pedantic here. The word request, absolutely aligns with the law. Otherwise, you are just stating the law to them, but nowhere in what you just said, are you technically asking for a ballot. That's the equivalent of walking info the poll and saying, "I'm a US citizen, and registered to vote". Ok cool, so do you want to vote? Or are you just stating that as a fact? Google "provisional ballot request". Plenty of references to that. It's totally reasonable.
arewenotkingsandqueenstogether
Right, especially since poll workers are just citizens who volunteered to work there
celestedrake
Not generally cops who want to be pedantic so they can get away with things
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Vallete
I hear you, if they have misunderstanding "I want my lawyer dog" energy
VagabondEngineer
The federal law states that request cannot be denied. This is the point.
Someshithead241
Since when do they care about the law?
manystripes
If they don't care about the law, does it really matter which words you use?
Anaphriel
I don't understand your comment getting downvoted. There's already been numerous cases of voter intimidation on top of Republicans doing basically whatever they can to make sure people they don't like can't vote. But apparently saying no is just unbelievable.
sambaah05
Incorrect. That's not what that word means. You have to ask for it, before they give it to you. Think about what you are saying. Things you "ask" for, can be denied. So you are effectively saying, they shouldn't "ask" for a provisional ballot. So what should they do instead? How does the poll worker know you want one, if you don't ask for it?
littlecoatfatguy
Who's being pedantic again?
DoctorWookie
"I require a provisional ballot as required by law, you will provide me one. "
It's a little combative, so I would only state it that way if they refuse a request.
sambaah05
Sure. But my point is, doing that probably won't change anything. "Demanding" is Karen move that rarely pushes the person you are talking to change.
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sambaah05
The law doesn't make any distinction there. A voter requesting a ballot, and eligible to receive one, should receive it. There's no loophole that says unless they demand it, you don't have to give it to them. Thats just not how it works. You demanding it, I'm guessing won't really help the situation and suddenly cause the poll worker to change their mind. But you do you.
Chronomechanist
If I request that you do not have sex with me, will your defence at the rape trial be that I didn't DEMAND that you not have sex with me?
Requesting something is absolutely a valid legal indicator of your intent.
whatbuttondoipush
My state doesn't ask. If you registered once, they send you a mail-in ballot. They have free drop-offs in every small town you've never heard of and more than 10 in the major cities. Plus you can mail them in.
ClikeX
The US voting system is a mess. I can't imagine having to deal with being registered. In my country, I am eligible to vote simply by being a citizen of the country.
eventide215
It's always funny to me when people say "my country" in cases like this. What country? How large is your population? How bad are the crime rates there? All these things, and more, go into all of this. What's really a mess is the intelligence of the people on this entire planet. Morons are getting away with too much.. like being able to vote just for the fun of it.
ucandcantunc
No , it's not. That is the propaganda they want you to believe . It's bullshit. My family do poll work. It's very organized and linear.
It's each persons responsibility to check voter registration and know where they are to vote.
What we have is as always , a few bad actors spoiling the group.
Most poll people are honest and want you to vote.
ClikeX
> It's each persons responsibility to check voter registration
That's what I mean. I don't have to check any voter registration. I am automatically eligible to vote simply by being a citizen, and my ballot just gets sent to my registered place of residence. And I can vote in any poll station in my municipality.
flipj
But do not ever forget: best strongest healthiest democracy in the world. None better. Shining beacon on the hill.
It is simply an attempt to ensure fewer and fewer of the "wrong people" vote, since you cannot use literacy tests and land-owning as a metric these days.
vmos
In my country you have to register and bring ID to vote, but my country was created in order to suppress the minority population and laws created to keep it that way. It's been over a century but we've outbred them, who's the minority now eh?
PurifiedInTheWatersOfLakeMinnetonka
The secret ingredient here is voter suppression. We’re a country that DOESN’T want voters to vote. We want a disenfranchised populace that gives up their right to vote due to the inconvenience and bureaucracy, so that only the cheaters continue to “win” elections and stay in power. So there.
Jecht1
One side absolutely wants that the other side is on the fence about it.
BlueAngel3141
It’s not the “country” that doesn’t want people to vote. It’s just one political party who doesn’t want everyone to vote.
BuiltonSin
...and that's why we get the day off to vote. Not just the day off, but we also get paid to vote! Greatest cunt-ry in the wurld!
HowlingRollercoaster2
Aus?
CallMeTrix
Some Dtates have literally ratified their Constitution to state that civilians are no longer allowed to propose their own ballot measures. Regardless of the will of the people, they can literally just deny any and all public demands, no matter how popular, to propose or change laws. ONLY THEY can do that now. That was how politicians prevent the term limits on a local level that people want.
HowlingRollercoaster2
And how they prevent a measure reversing that limitation too certainly
BoppinAndJivin
As it is as it shall be l
robingal1
Send your leaders a "thank you" sticker as an encouragement from a US citizen.
astrangehop
What country would that be?
ClikeX
The Netherlands.
GlobalImageServiceCat
In my country, we get Democracy Sausages after voting outside the polling stations.
keoghberry
Australia?
HowlingRollercoaster2
.
WellAckchually
Where I live in the US, it is common for communities to have pot luck meals at polling stations and everyone that votes gets a baked good or scoop of casserole or bowl of soup or what have you
fingobaggins
I do love a democracy snag...
Dolenmorgul
Here here
Tigersterne
Do you have a national ID to prove citizenship?
ClikeX
Yes, which is mandatory to have. And your ballot gets set to your place of residence, which everyone has because you're registered at your local city hall. Honestly, the only thing you need to make sure of is that your National ID hasn't expired at the time of voting. And you're able to bring your national ID, passport, or driver's license as identification.
Tigersterne
The US nor the states have a mandatory national ID. Love it or hate it, having it be mandatory is considered anti-liberty. It varies by state, but usually there are token ID requirements to register to vote (eg proof of state residency (utility bill in your name)) plus plus of citizenship (birth certificate or passport).
Superchief86
In Australia you do have to register. But being that voting is mandatory, it is a big event made very accessible. Lots of polling places, and elections are on a Saturday.
jacquelinedilmore86
It's ridiculous and you also have to go to a certain building to vote, there are several places near me, but I have to go farther away to vote. Waiting in line is an all fay thing too.
ucandcantunc
Only a few states require that
WellAckchually
Both of these are based on state and local policies. In my state it is a newsworthy event if a line takes an hour.
blainetog
It's partially because we don't have a national ID system, so determining people's residence can be a little tricky. Since the government doesn't automatically track where you live, you need to affirmatively reach out and update your forwarding address when you move with the post office and your state's drivers license department. Otherwise, it wouldn't be clear which city and state you should vote in. THAT SAID, it's also way more obtuse than it needs to be in GOP states to suppress votes.
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BuiltonSin
Sounds too simple, must be a problem with it
failsafe
It matters at the state level due to the electoral college. Despite being a federation there is a decent amount of power and freedoms given to individual states, one of which is the control of their voting. Elections are seen as a state issue, not a federal one. So where you live matters because one could simply cross state lines and vote in a different election. It would be like a French citizen going to Germany to vote in their elections.
WellAckchually
This is the real difference: In the US we vote for *everything*. There are 14 contests on my ballot this November, and that's not unusual. And that's in addition to the 8 contests I voted for this April, and the two primaries. If we had separate elections for different levels like some countries do we would be voting ~8 times in even years and 4 times in odd years
WellAckchually
If I moved down the street, I'd be in a different school district and different municipal ward, both of which affect my ballot
takedown751
Not so simple in U.S. with rampant illegal immigration and the erosion of citizenship by the left
ProbablyWrong524
Study after study, investigation after investigation, and we repeatedly find that there are almost no credible reports of voter fraud, there has NEVER been an instance of fraud on a scale sufficient to affect the outcome of the election, and the reported instances of voter fraud have been almost exclusively due to confusion rather than malice. Stop using bullshit talking points to further such demonstrable lies.
SneakyGaryTheSerialHorseDrowner
And the credible ones are always like "whoops, it was a MAGA voting for Trump twice"
Togwoop
And in my country we have "prevoting" time before the final votes are put in. During this prevoting time, you can vote at any voting station, which will be conveniently scattered everywhere for ease of access. If you wait for the final date for the "official" voting, you can only vote at your assigned nearest station (usually ~1km from your home). Walk in, show ID, get the paper, fill number in a booth alone, cast vote at the desk. Simple, clean and efficient.
zuken
We have early voting, but voting early has a slightly elevated risk that shenanigans will happen. The early ballots tend to be targeted by the conspiracies more.
Also the polling locations are far from convenient if you're in the wrong state.
kaarbaakimgr
That sounds like the US
HowlingRollercoaster2
Ifvyou are lucky enough to be in a blue state this is more likely to seem true. States that allow mail in voting and generally make voting easy tend to tuen out blue because the majority of the population leans blue. Voter suppression creates red states
mastikator
You live in a democracy. The US is more of an oligarchy with democratic elements.
MyCommentsUsuallyHaveTypos
In most states here, you're automatically registered to vote when you get your license, and re-registered to vote when you renew.
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zombieregime
Obtaining a drivers license is not a requirement to be able to vote, you can still register to vote while not having a license to drive. Its just when it happens for most people since ya know American car culture go brrrrrrrr. Fucks sake man, stop drinking the Kool aid, its ruined your critical thinking skills...
echonite
If you go to a store and buy some hotdogs and at the checkout they ask you if you also want to buy some buns as well, is that discriminatory to those that dont buy hotdogs? Considering you are perfectly able to buy those buns already? Its just killing 2 birds with one stone since the requirements for your license are basically the same for voter registration.
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darthstormer
Deleting because my intent was not to dissuade provisional voters, but to point out the lengths that I guarantee the GOP will try to go to invalidate them.
KnifeKnut
Then you posted a poor example.
AgainstMethod
Posting this without link or context as though random people risk prison for voting is bad.
RMWX
Sometimes I wish there was a way to have like important context notice attached to comments because this could scare some people from doing a provisional ballot.
KnifeKnut
You leave out a lot of important context, she was a felon, but did not know she wasn't allowed to vote. https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/28/texas-illegal-voting-conviction-crystal-mason/
darthstormer
Yes, but the whole point was, she knew she had the felony, was unsure eligibility, and the poll worker said file a provisional until we can determine for sure. Exactly the purpose of a provisional.
KnifeKnut
"Mason’s prosecution hinged on an affidavit she signed before casting her provisional ballot that required individuals to swear that “if a felon, I have completed all my punishment including any term of incarceration, parole, supervision, period of probation, or I have been pardoned.” she was on supervised release.
fishmaceins
Isn't the whole point of a provisional ballot to get checked for eligibility afterwards? How can that be illegal?
KnifeKnut
/gallery/zzwazRO/comment/2423063227
AgainstMethod
The circumstances of that case don't apply to most people.
PileOfWalthers
Because she's black and female and was to be made into an example.
AgainstMethod
She's also a felon. If you don't have a felony record, you probably don't need to worry about this specific thing
PileOfWalthers
That's why she was casting a _provisional_ ballot! Trying to, anyway.