LunaAtlas
31897
955
33
Jun 6, 2025 4:10 AM
LunaAtlas
31897
955
33
TIREDGANG
US has a credit score of 715 if anyone was wondering
mooseablethenok
Shortest answer, because running a country at a deficit isn't a bad thing so long as GDP matches. If you make 2700 a month, and you borrow 2800, you are 100 dollars in debt at the end of the month.
Arenlor
You can find the historical context of credit scores, but also: https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/16/business/moody-us-credit countries have their own and the USA's is going down.
fartharder
Different budget
acuteavocado7
trump is actually creating a new rule to limit debt because of the insane 34 trillion debt. for more info google "trump rule 34"
OliverOtter
It's because the finances of a nation (especially one with fiat reserve currency) have less to do with the finances of a person, than the finances of a person have to do with a blue whale foraging for krill. Debt, up to a point (and $34T may be beyond that point) is good for a nation and drives prosperity by being paid back (even if more debt is then bought with that). Debt for a person is an anchor.
stevestevensonthesteve
On one hand, yes I get it. But also, isn't the majority of that debt owned by people and entities within the US itself? Like for example you can buy bonds, and the government repays it plus interest to you over time?
SneakECoyote
Man I would've had a house ten years ago if not for credit scores.
gesel
It is not, ar all, nonsense, but tragically, it appears a little beyond many voting Americans' math skills. Every country, including the US, has a credit score: for countries it is the bond rating and, just like your credit score, it influences the cost of credit. The US WACC has been quite low, reflecting the low risk, among other factors. US borrowing is good policy if the cost of capital < the return on capital, you would too, if you understood the concepts.
linkdk59
Why even is my credit score calculated by two companies in the US when I don't even live there?
agburanar
To be fair, for better than a decade, my total debt was more than my yearly income (i.e. I had a mortgage and a car loan, and made less in a year than I still owed).
The difference, of course, is that I took on that debt to buy a house, and then slowly paid it down. I didn't keep borrowing more every year to continue buying toys (Lego, in my case; aircraft carriers in Uncle Sam's).
SomeGeek75ygh
Two easy and simple words: Wage slaves.
stargrey
I'm old enough to remember when the news was predicting we would never recover form a national debt of 2 trillion.
ATLandNerdy
The USA has a credit score too, and it just got lowered from AAA to AA.
Hexidimentional
because the united states is capable and does pay the interest on that debt, its not really any different from the average person having a credit card with a limit of 3200$ and having some balance on it that they are paying down.
SomeGeek75ygh
You put the dollar sign at the front, what kind of barbarian are you?!
Hexidimentional
Do you say thirty two hundred dollars, or dollars thirty two hundred?
SomeGeek75ygh
Not a valid argument, since the grammatical format is $ at the front and c (well, the cent sign) at the back. You don't see in retail stores "Soda 1$" after all. It's "Soda $1". Etc.
BipedalHumanoidWithSlightlyDifferentNoseRidge
Are you backed by hundreds of millions of workers?
Industrial and economic output are what the "lenders" see.
KingKrabvoldIV
It literally is and that credit rating was just down graded. Imgur is full of lazy people that need to read before posting.
AgainstMethod
I swear, the blanket assumption on the internet is that every cynical statement must be true and insightful.
KingKrabvoldIV
Then maybe they should shoot for funny or intelligent, which they also missed.
Zamm005
"Don't worry that you have a credit score that tells banks how profitable you will be to milk dry... Cos China has a social credit score! Just trust me on that OK?! Your life is bad, but its OK cos I'm telling you someone else's life is worse... Dont think about what I'm saying. Certainly don't ask 'even if you're telling the truth, why is that relevant to me and my life?'... But ideally just go full drone mode and repeat the words 'China is worse than here so I must be happy and contented!'"
adamsonpaul5772
What is a credit score? Is that an American thing?
AgainstMethod
Most countries have credit rating agencies that compile information on how much people are borrowing and how reliably they've repayed past debt. The US agencies have formulas to give you a numeric "credit score" that gives lenders and landlords an at-a-glance estimate of how risky it is to lend to you. There's nothing inherently wrong with credit scores and nearly every complaint Americans have about it are actually problems with the credit industry itself rather than the scoring system.
Daemencer
Country debts are very different from people debts.
PTKrieg
Until Trump, that debt was constantly rotating out, and everyone knew they were going to get their check on time; it wasn't a $34T bill sitting there unpaid and going delinquent.
KingKrabvoldIV
Trump hasn’t defaulted on debt though, so your comment is a lie.
PTKrieg
The critical bit is "everyone knew they were going to get their check on time"; Trump hasn't defaulted, but his actions have resulted in the US losing AAA status on the Moody's and Scope ratings, which is fair to describe as a weakening of trust/confidence. Not catastrophic, but definitely not good.
KingKrabvoldIV
Well yeah, but a default would be catastrophic in comparison. Just don’t lie. Trump is an anal wart so there’s no need to make shit up.
tokerator
I recently checked my credit report. There's shit on there that I've never been a part of.
channelranger
Pretty sure if someone checked mine they'd just pull a shotgun from under the desk and shoot me.
Zaranthan
My credit's so bad they won't even take my cash.
furioustomato
It's a cosmic joke that the banks that have destroyed the economies of the western world are the same ones that decide that the people they've screwed over are too risky to lend money to.
OhIfIMust
Rules for thee...
TohmaytohTohmahtoh
Could not agree more. The irony is totally lost on the banks...
channelranger
And yet an 18 year old with no job and no plan is fine to lend 40k to for school because they got the government to make it so there's no getting out of a student loan. Ever.
CatSingularity
they dont get all the money at once and they need to maintain a set gpa in order to keep the gov paying out that loan, but hay, you cant pay it back if you have been broke from the day you were born
phobosorbust
The national debt has nothing to do with personal debt. It's a convenient vehicle for the reich wing to shift wealth to the wealthy.
By making it sound like the country is broke, it's easy to convince people we can't "afford" things like universal healthcare.
Except... we decide how many dollars exist. We could decide to fund anything and everything we want, and it is not possible for us to run out of money. There are consequences, but not the dire ones the right claims.
JustAnotherPOG
Hyperinflation can get pretty dire.
phobosorbust
because things are going so well currently
It's nearly impossible for our economy to fall into hyperinflation. At least for now. Once this current admin finishes brutally murdering international trust in the dollar that situation will change.
JustAnotherPOG
I suspect if we decided to just start printing money to "afford" whatever we desire with no thought to the effects, things would get worse than they otherwise would. Statements like yours are analogous to someone saying, "why does it matter if I get shot in the head when I already have a broken leg?"
phobosorbust
Not even close. You've simply assumed my suggestion would be implemented by people trying to make it fail and wilfully ignoring economic advice and abolishing all taxes and eliminating several more safety valves.
Printing money is already what we do (see for example quantitative easing), and taxes are one of several policies to control inflation. The people currently in charge are using these tools to extract wealth from most people and concentrate it in the hands of the few.
phobosorbust
What I'm really arguing for is that we spend whatever it takes to get to a functional society, and if we need to inflict some economic pain along the way to control inflation then start at the top. Financial transaction taxes, wealth taxes, etc.
Get more money into the hands of people who need it and will spend it more or less immediately. That makes for a healthier economy.
Primotimewaster
Also, an independent study I read about years ago found that 80% of negative reports were posted in error by the reporting credit agency.
DrewtanggaurdiumLeviosa
Every year get your credit report, and dispute everything. Even the stuff that’s valid like your current credit cards. You’ll be surprised how often the credit company doesn’t respond and suddenly your score goes up.
SomeGeek75ygh
How/where do you dispute things on it, btw?
DrewtanggaurdiumLeviosa
You have to request your full report from each of the three agencies. You can do this once a year for free so don’t let them charge you. There will be dispute instructions included with the report you are mailed. Basically you just circle everything and mail it back. Any debt that has been sold is unlikely to be provable especially if it has been sold multiple times.
SomeGeek75ygh
Excellent, thanks a lot.
Karma1970
Because America runs on hypocrisy. The "Land of the Free" was never free for most people. A hypocritical nation created on stolen land and built by a stolen people.
Harbltron
Land of the fee, home of the slave
7hatsBollocks
It's the land of freedom to exploit people by thieving capitals. They just let people think it was for all. Working as intended really.
BillHubbard
Ranking 25th on the freedom scale.
poderous
To be fair, you are describing the origins of most modern first world countries. It’s just a question of how far back in history you want to look
Karma1970
"To be fair...", yeah you can fuck off too.
owlcatsanctuary101
The land of the "it's free real estate, mate" /s
darthnerdus6236
Isn't that minted on Australian coins around British monarchs?
DoubleOhTwentyEight
Nonsense. Credit scores are an outstanding reflection of personal responsibility. And the United States has a credit score too. Too. It is called our bond rating.
oxygenisnotfree
Credit scores are just another poverty rating. Rich people aren't worried about balancing groceries and medicine with a car payment. Nonpoor people can afford to pay off their cc each month, while that higher interest rate on low income households perpetuates their debt.
DoubleOhTwentyEight
This isn't true. Of course it is easier for wealthy people to have healthy finances. But income and credit score are only moderately correlated. A low income person can maintain a quite good score. And in the absence of such a scoring mechanism, we'd need one. It's way better than loan sharks.
Cloudraker
I notice you keep repeating this ignorant shit but haven't offered a single rebuttal to arguments against you. Things like why does the score go down when things are paid off. Or why isn't rent reflected? Seems your a one trick pony in this debate and that trick is just carrying water for rich people.
Karma1970
They're also known to have inaccurate information and difficult to correct, Fuck off.
ulfgarBentbeak
~kinda. The USA is like the Ottoman Empire. In it's early days it *was* the land of the free in comparison to it's contemporaries. However, over time that "advantage" has eroded until it's reversed and the nation is too high on it's own supply of propaganda to modernize to keep with their values. The Ottoman's had the same issue. They were very progressive and forward looking in their early days but didn't adjust to the world around them and so entered a slow decline. Coasting on momentum.
EstoyPoopis
......in its early days it was a slave nation...
ulfgarBentbeak
As was every great power of the time. As I said, compared to it's contemporaries. The Dutch republic was the only other nominal democratic nation of the time, and they had a defacto monarch in the House of Orange. The Dutch republic was also already involved with genocide in modern day Indonesia by that point. Hell, the thing that people forget about the slave trade is that the African nations/tribes were eager participants at the time. They enslaved each other all the time.
BillHubbard
The credit score is not there to protect you against loaning too much. It's there to protect those who lend to you from you defaulting on your loans. Proper countries have systems to protect the civilians, America protects the companies.
IconicM
How dare lenders not want you to default on loans. It would be great if everyone just stopped paying their debts right? Up until everyone stopped lending and you couldn't get money.
RawSugarPackage
India uses a form of the buddy system.
AgainstMethod
Proper countries also consider repayment history and assess the risk of default. That's not some big American capitalist conspiracy, it's just how all banks work.
Akurei00
There's a sweet spot that must be had.
Without some sort of credit rating system, people can keep going to banks and taking out loans far more than they can afford. This does have a negative effect on people who keep their money in those institutions. Their money is what's lent to borrowers, after all. Indiscriminately handing out loans is bad.
There's lots of stupid shit with this system, too. Like denying mortgage loans that would actually cost them less than their rent.
JustAnotherPOG
I'm with you on the first two, but the last is pushing it. There are two significant factors with a mortgage that are considerably less of a factor than renting. The most obvious is the fact that maintenance costs on a home are baked into the cost of rent, but they obviously aren't accounted for in a mortgage. The second is the amount/likelihood of risk and investment assumed by the lender as opposed to a landlord. An eviction is generally cheaper/shorter than a foreclosure.
Doso777
The USA is judged by credit scores as well.
KingKrabvoldIV
Came here to say this well. People are living in a bubble.
TsubakiTragic
yep, and it's not AAA
lackinglife
The real historical context? Laws were passed that stopped banks from denying loans on race, so they needed a new system. Enter credit scores, where the original scores were based on what assets like houses and businesses you had.
Guess who had houses and businesses because they had gotten loans previously?
HOAs basically had the same origin.
WhatUpDog3000
FREEDOM!
MyCommentsUsuallyHaveTypos
Huh. And here I was told because consumers were too irresponsible in the 1920s.
newsguycraigevans
This post is illegal in the states of Florida and Oklahoma.
IGotTheMusicInMe425
I will forever be bitter that credit scores became a thing the very year I was born
djj25
And Trump is pissing away over $45M to message his ego with a military parade on his birthday
AgainstMethod
People keep saying this like it's a bad thing, but credit scores (1) are based on repayment history and total debt, not wealth and so (2) are *vastly* superior to how banks made these decisions before we had FICO scores.
noWhiteHorseHereJustBatturuPrinsu
Isn't the whole point of a credit score a digit that reflects if and how much you can pay off your debt to whomever you loaned it from? Credit cards don't make you wealthier, but they do allow a debt collector to get their money (by forcing you into more debt). A house or business can be sold to pay off debt. Credit scores don't reflect how rich or responsible you are, they reflect (or should reflect) how much debt payment can be collected from you in a pinch.
poderous
A credit score is a digit that reflects your risk as a borrower
noWhiteHorseHereJustBatturuPrinsu
The risk of lender and borrower are similar right? If a borrower can't pay back the lender doesn't get paid. The exception is systems where borrowers can be forced into prostitution/slavery to pay off their debt. But technically we don't live in such a system.
Clockworkdancerobot
It helps keep the rich rich, and the poor poor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88v_r9osaAU
Karma1970
100%
textilelover
That being said, it was an attempt to get around the old-boy network, and today, it's based on you being able to pay your bills reliably. And having assets, this is true. I'm not saying it's great, but it's somewhat better than just walking into a bank and having the manager have full discretion. "Well, he looks like a reliable fellow!"
Poppypoppoppop
This is "recent" too
lackinglife
Yea I'm 2 years older than credit scores. I got so angry when I first found that out
AgainstMethod
And it's *better*! People should be mad at banks and wealth inequality, not the practice of credit scores.
brandonblk
so.... its racism with extra steps
PersonalityFire
https://imgur.com/hyqcoLD
Affray
Classism. Non-white people were just the first targets of the barriers, now it's all poor people on equally disadvantaged footing.
NorthmanoftheNorth
AND a thin veil.
clonedeeznuts
It ain't thin unless you're head thick
DinkyDoinky
The definition of usa
StellarJay77
Along with bigotry, it's the answer to pretty much any question as it pertains to anything unbalanced or unjust in the US. Wealthy landowners have been making the rules for hundreds of years.
GCRust
Guess where Police Departments originated from? :D
Doismellbacon
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1azk4a3IzMXUwZ2JlejdwcXowaDE1aDgxam5udWI2ajh6NXZxOXVtMSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/PJyYNUEg8h0xa/200w.webp
DoubleOhTwentyEight
Nonsense. Credit scores reflect how consistently you meet your obligations. They also reflect your consistent failures to meet obligations. In the absence of such a system, any smart and decent person would think the system up.
tooomanystevesgotbanned
Found the rich white guy!
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
I doubt this person is rich. Rich people generally understand finances. Probably a "temporarily embarrassed millionaire"
TohmaytohTohmahtoh
The people that thought this up and the system to raise or lower your score (which are completely counterintuative) were not decent. They were clever, deceitful, and crafty, but not decent.
OreoBorealis
So how come paying rent doesn't factor in?
poderous
Most rent payment information is not reported in a way that banks can have access to it.
wawickline
I haven't missed a payment in over 20 years. I use about 3% of my credit. My credit score dropped almost 30 points last month because I paid off 1 card (About $100) and used another for it's bonus (about 85$). $85 whole dollars dropped me from 807 to 778. Not sure it has anything to do with meeting my obligations.
RingKichardTheThrid
Why does getting a new credit card raise your credit score? Why does doing a credit check lower your credit score?
Imnotenteringausername
Why does paying off your debts decrease your credit score
QotU
You credit score is a measure of how what a good little borrower you are, not how good you are at financial management. Banks punish you for paying off debts because that’s not profitable for them. Your score goes down and can disappear entirely for “no credit history” because you are actually very good with money.
DoubleOhTwentyEight
They don't"punish you for paying off debts." If you spend on a credit line but pay it off every month you will have a strong credit score. It is only those who have no recent history of making payments that will have a decrease to their score.
QotU
Mine is decreasing. We pay everything through our credit cards and pay them off each month. Paying off our mortgage took it down, too.
I don’t actually care but it is how the system works. Banks want debtors to earn interest. They don’t earn interest from me. My score absolutely is penalized.
DoubleOhTwentyEight
It doesn't. Paying if a credit card every single month and carrying no consumer debt improves. your score. Not spending on a credit line can hurt your score only because the agencies are unable to say anything about how you behave if you never have bills to pay off.
brandonblk
Why does asking to see your credit score decrese your credit score
IAmASentientWaffle
What‽
CoinedWatcher
Not just you asking. Need to make a big purchase? Better figure it out quick, because every time someone else checks your score it takes a hit
SupernaturalReactions
Pretty much anytime you ask why something happened in the US, the answer is almost invariably bigotry....
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1MHZrbHU2dzc0ZTNvY21ybDJvMDhlYnpoY2x5ZWZxZjh2NWJsYzF2diZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/C3oIjra1N9kFq/200w.webp
EyeSpyABreathtakingPerson
Or money. Often both together.
SupernaturalReactions
Money often comes from then fosters bigotry.
Hate is more profitable than love.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1aXB0Zmh3c3pyY3g0ZnFrMGhrYnlyN2V5OHJ5dzBreW9zdjZrMzRjayZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/nue8HnpTlqs92/200w.webp
BarbecueSteve
Except for National Parks. Because Teddy Roosevelt wanted future generations to see the same wonders he saw.
WillemHellfire
And Nixon with his EPA.
SavageDrums
And/or Reagan.
DarthGoodguy
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
Same thing
JollyJokzr
Nah, the rest of the world copied Reagan in the 90s. We just recently started copying the bigotry
ThanatosElNyx
That would imply that there's no bigotry outside of Reagan which is nonsense!
thropian
All squares are rectangles type of "same thing". Racism isn't reagan, but reagan is racism.