abbiistabbii
51977
1367
45
hell yeah, NOW DRAW HER TELEPORTING BREAD
feetku
uwu
Hammaga assalomu aleykum o'zbek xudosi!
O_O
OxO
Hey Thor, what the fuck I respected you.
yeah that sounds like West-coasters
SHE NEVER DID!
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TheGhostofElizabethShue
Kunosart
#36 It's my comfort media and I chose the representation!
RatoMolhado
#32
4chanrefugee
#11 hell yeah
SpaceMarineWithAnUrgeToPurge
#62
OmegaRainbow360
#47 wrf is going on with gambling ads, please don't share them... unless you're a paid affiliate I guess, but in that case it should be disclosed? Isn't gambling advertising highly regulated? Please don't help gambling firms bypass laws and regulations :/
IUpvoteFuturama
#31 This is how Cinnamon Frosted flakes are made.
DaGoobergoobs
#16 Fun fact: Nintendo decided to ship the Gameboy with this instead of Mario. They said if they shipped the game with Mario, it would be seen as a game system for boys. But of they shipped with Tetris, it would be something for everyone and not just boys.
RulesOfImgur
#20 Plagiarism Induced Synthesis System (P. I. S. S.)
Fhant
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1bXMxdjB4NHI3cWFjcm9tc2VtMm03d3B3MzU0MnMycTd4M2poeDU2MSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/F0XPSvNDyGpos/200w.webp
parabolic000
I've taken to calling it Abominable Intelligence, like in 40k.
ImGoingToGoFallAsleepOnABench
A plagiarism-induced synthesis system (PISS) that produces computer-rendered artificial pictures (CRAP) and stunningly low-originality products (SLOP).
SkeletorOverlordofEvil
Stunningly Low Originality Products [S.L.O.P]
ArchaeoEejit
That's not AI, that's capitalism.
tavinjer
It can be both!
Untoast
Stored in the Backup Analog Light Learning Space (B.A.L.L.S.)
theobituator
#43 TV party tonight!
Revelant
#30 alot of people worked at Blizzard in its hay day, he's isn't special. Like me.
SapphicCatgirl
#42 Holy shit is that an Umamusume meme I spot??? Lowkey, the horse girl gatcha game goes way harder than I expected it to. Perhaps being lesbian and a furry influences my feelings towards it bit though lol
Sageypie
#28 worked with this poor person that went through this, but like, in a sad and desperate way. Their wife came out as lesbian, so they immediately said they were trans as a way of keeping their wife. Somehow got approved for meds and all, and, because I apparently give off some confessional vibes, they confide in me how they did not want to transition, but felt forced to do so as their only means of keeping their wife. Just hope they're doing well wherever they are now.
Tangurena
That's a sad tale, but this is not uncommon among the trans women community.
Disclaimer: have 2 exes who came out as lesbian and another 2 who should have.
TwitchFox
I know its entirely petty, but can you swap out #47 for this version without the stake ad?
skinnermarinkykinkydink
You can't swap images in an existing post but yeah that's a better one.
TheGhostofElizabethShue
Literally impossible. But yes going forward let’s use this one.
JustSomePersonThere
I’m keeping your version and deleting the gross one. Also, fuck Stake in particular.
AntaNce
I am here to say I am petty too, and I represent this remark. May the petty be with you, and also with YOU
IWasACatAllAlong
Why, are you a vampire? Getting nervous? I dunno what stake is.
TwitchFox
Stake is a gambling company. They've gotten into the habit of paying people to add their stupid banner onto memes/posts so that their name gets spread across the internet.
So on top of making memes/cute animal videos worse, they're promoting the gambling industry which preys on peoples desperation.
xzinik
i think people should start to put tha fucking logo en unsavory things(like a plane crash or similar) and spam the hell out of it so that it gets ingrained on people that it is a bad thing when that fucking logo is in it
IWasACatAllAlong
Oh that does sound pretty stupid and unethical.
TwitchFox
Just the marching enshittification of the internet. :(
Zalm
#18 just make sure you don't fuck over the indie devs with this.
TheMrrigan
#11 i hate to tell y'all but this Twitter account is a Nazi
5amNonsense
> femboy arts
> nazi
It's a tale as old as time
aslum
You can tell because it's got a blue check
TheMrrigan
Eh, some bluechecks are just annoying libs
aslum
Nah, if you're actively paying fascists $8 (or whatever it costs now) every month you're a fascist.
slinkiisu
Fuck
MichikoTheJungleFox
#2 Tbf tho trending topics are just modern tabloids, which have always been like this. It was never meant to be intelligent content. Just stuff for people who find that kind of news entertaining. Chances are that if you were an older person back in the 80's or 90's or whatever, you wouldn't have cared about a lot of the celebrity news of the day either, nor even known many of the celebrities the kids knew. "Tupac Shakur was shot? No clue who that is. I don't listen to the hippety hop!"
Violaquin
#32
LtRooney
I assume that #18 and #30 are related, but I have no idea what they're about.
MelodyLightfoot
Pirate software is a jackass that used to work for blizzard at some point and now does mostly shit takes on YT with a radio filter on
ChicksDigTrucks
#1 I hope @KitSucksAtSkating is doing well.
CarnCarbyofRabbitArmy
Holy shit the description in #47 works SO HARD to dance around the whole r**e part of the story. "Poseidon r***d this person and they were really f*cking traumatized by that and Poseidon gave them a wish after the r**e like flipping a coin to a brutalized prostitute" puts a very different spin on the whole "please make me a man and give me invulnerable skin" wish. I'm all for modern retellings of gross old stories and elevating queer history but unfortunately this ain't that.
Lesgrylls
#16 I hope you've seen darkmanes tetris review. For the life of me I can't get his voice out of my head when I play
abbiistabbii
https://blahaj.zone/notes/aa0p8oe0oe7w0098
LettermanAirsoft
#30 I really liked pirate software until the OnlyFangz stuff happened and I realized he was kind of a dick to the people around him. And then the stop killing games shit happened and he's dead to me
KZFDG
He was a colossal prick in Eve Online for years
Whatdoyousaytoanicecupoftea
#16 Give me the L
PwnageHobo
#1 "hell yeah, NOW DRAW HER TELEPORTING BREAD"
PwnageHobo
Sauce is Pale by J.C.McCrae (a.k.a. Wildbow)
https://palewebserial.wordpress.com/
Art is 'Found' by Joe Hutchinson (@owl_hat on instagram) Pale is a wonderful mix of cute coming of age, slice of life stuff and blood, guts & 'orrible murder. Friendship, family, community building, making the world a better place, and standing up to oppression.
Halfwise
#11 *Shows pretty femboy*... *Doesn't give sauce on pretty femboy*... (Of course, this is assuming they have like an instagram or something where their whole schtick is being a pretty femboy, and not some rando, which I doubt.)
yifin
#29 to everyone hoping for some sorta change after the floods, please know this is from 1993 and fuck all has changed in the US to lower this from happening. To the ammosexuals, I hope you trip down stairs
MKESewerRat
Remember that one meme about the American dream of being able to hijack a plane to take your child to another country for healthcare? That's essentially the reason for conservatives' response. As long as the U.S. maintains a "Lone Hero" culture there will continue to be "Lone Wolves".
corticalstack
Disarming the American Left seems unwise right now. Any new gun laws will exclusively do that and nothing else. We need legislation that addresses the root problems that make people turn to violence.
Didn't see anyone here upset about Luigi, just saying.
flavivsaetivs
It's not even hard to find a compromise that saves lives and lets people continue to do fun things like shooting sports or collect interesting firearms. Just require people to get a sport shooting or collectors' license for semi-automatic firearms and larger magazines.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
Canada has a similar gun culture to the US but we have better requirements and licensing, it doesn't stop people who want to have fun or keep coyotes away from their chickens, it just means you need to do some bare bones safety training that escalates based on how dangerous the guns are.
I know of one lady who's legally licensed to own/operate/supervise operation of fully automatic weapons (for movies). The safety registration was high but around the level of a pilot's license nothing nuts.
flavivsaetivs
Fully automatic weapons are licensed in the US as well, I'm actually shocked it's possible at all in Canada.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
only ones that are grandfathered in from before the law
flavivsaetivs
Yeah that's how it is in the US. Unless you're a PSC.
zimirken
Magazine size limits are bullshit anyways. People can just drill out the limiting pin on their "limited" magazines or carry more than one magazine.
PectorialMuscles
Making it easier to convict people for obvious crimes is part of regulation.
corticalstack
Now if only we had a policing and judicial system that punished fascists and bootlickers and not just minorities and leftists
PectorialMuscles
Duh? I thought we collectively agreed no laws would be made or enforced in good faith until we fixed the US Fascist party. You don't need to cite the last 200 years at leftist imgur commenters.
RayneOfSalt
#18 someone's mad about the Stop Killing Games initiative?
pineapplecatastrophe
Pirate software said he can’t support the vague wording of the petition in its current state and how he’s getting death threats.
His concerns are 100% valid but the WoW community is still following him around aping anything they can, thus memes like this.
Grurim
LOL
pineapplecatastrophe
Lol :)
RayneOfSalt
I have no idea who "PirateSoftware" is or anything else surrounding it, other than that people were trying to stop companies from killing off older games. Which seems like a good thing to me.
pineapplecatastrophe
Yeah, the problem is the "SKG" initiate is too vague in its current state, doesn't take into account how some stuff being hosted server-side is a good idea for fair online play, and is going to lead to bad legislation, if it even goes anywhere.
RayneOfSalt
ah, I see. thank ye
skinnermarinkykinkydink
I've read their proposal/petition and it's not "too vague". It's not a pre-written law but considering it's something proposed to multiple countries that's a good thing (leave the legislating to the legislators).
The level of specificity is in line with other similar initiatives like Right to Repair and such.
amdkenobi
From #30 is seems like YouTuber "Thor" is mocking the movement.
pineapplecatastrophe
Not mocking, pointing out legitimate concerns that nobody had addressed yet
Grurim
LOL
RayneOfSalt
He seems like a less than pleasant fellow.
amdkenobi
I work as IT for a software dev company and, I hate to say it, he gives off the same vibes as most of the "infalable code gods" I have to deal with.
RayneOfSalt
Oh, I run across a lot of wanna-be authors with that kind of vibe in my dayjob as a glorified spellchecker.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
Every industry has them, some are worse than others for accommodating them though yeah :D
Rezmic
PirateSoftware. This drama has been all over my feed so let me give you a brief rundown. Thor aka. PirateSoftware has made it very clear that not only is he incredibly opposed to the initiative, but he's also very wrong about what SKG is trying to do. MANY people have tried to inform him that he's got it wrong but it turns out he's stubborn and won't listen. This is bad because he shares this opinion with his many viewers. Despite that SKG has reached its goal and Thor is not happy.
RayneOfSalt
Thank ye for the rundown, I appreciate it. I'd heard of the SKG thing from a discord channel, but didn't know there were people making drama about it.
aslum
Also likely some of groundswell on the SKG is pushback against PS after a Hardcore WOW server fuck up where he doubled down on not his fault
RayneOfSalt
This Thor person sounds like a food who's been deluded by corpos.
Rezmic
He does actually have some genuinely good takes, but this seems to be the sad hill he's willing to die on.
RayneOfSalt
Food? Fool. I've gotta pay more attention now that I don't have a light-up keyboard.
Nuttsy
He likes to tell folks he spent 7 years working for Blizzard. (His dad was one of the earliest hires.)
RayneOfSalt
Does he think that gives him special corpo-insight powers or something? i went down a bit of a rabbit hole and there seems to be a weird parasocial cult of personality thing going on with some of the "big names" involved.
Nuttsy
Turns out, boobs are not necessary for the development of a weird cult of online personality.
Who knew!?
pineapplecatastrophe
Yes a lot of WoW players tried to “inform” a network admin on why his take about game construction and hosting concerns were bullshit that nobody needs to worry about
Weirdly he didn’t change his stance, almost like there is an actual problem that still needs to be addressed
I am also in that field and his concerns made 100% sense to me, it’s so surprising to see this red faced pushback
Rezmic
Found his alt guys.
In all seriousness much of the hate DOESN'T come from his stance on the matter, but from how much he was misinterpreting the goal (either misreading it or not reading or at all) and then doubling down on his misinformed stance. He is at fault and will not admit any wrong on his behalf, this is what most people are annoyed with.
pineapplecatastrophe
He wasn't misinterpreting the goal, he was pointing out issues that the petition does not address in it's goal, and problems it creates for dev's if legislation was built on the current wording. Would you like to contest one of his specific points from his still available 8 minute SKG video, rather than giving parrot bandwagon responses? Or is that a little too much for your attention span?
pineapplecatastrophe
(And he demonitized that video before you try to say "I dont want to give him money" lol)
Rezmic
Really don't know why you're getting personal over this, you really shouldn't be offended for someone else. If you're just gunna reference me to a video I've already seen, I guess I'll just recommend watching Ross' (the SKG creator, @accursed_farms) video reacting to it.. I believe there are others who break the issue down better, but Ross is obviously the one directly involved in this so it's an important take.
AxellTheDragon
#30 God fucking dammit! I also held Thor in high regards, for what it's worth. I kept getting YT shorts from him, and thought he's genuinely wholesome with how he tries to explain coding and stuff, gives good life advice, and he has some great experience in game dev, and was afraid with all this good that something negative might come out about him, and lo and behold, he gets all pissy for something that's in the best interest of his viewer base. What the hell is his problem with it??
Arracor
Tl;dr he's actually a corpo shill at heart, always has been, and it took until now for it to come up in a way that makes him look bad. :L
pineapplecatastrophe
Literally a fully indie streamer who runs a ferret sanctuary. I don't see how he could be further from corporate, but whatever you wanna tell yourself to make your anger feel righteous.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
"The man who consistently and constantly encourages people to get into making games for themselves is corpo, actually" is always my favorite brainrot take.
pineapplecatastrophe
He very intentionally got out of that life lol, it's such a weird take.
TeofiloPaolucci
A lack in faith in government and their ability to write legislation about something they likely have little to no understanding of; is what I'd assume, which is a totally reasonable fear. He just fucked up how he relayed that fear to the public and everyone hates him now for it.
CoherentLemur
There's some pretty reasonable fears to have about this initiative. If done wrong you could end up with a lot of people losing their jobs, some EU developed games dying immediately, and a larger number of games not being available for purchase in the EU.
Thor just went about it in one of the worst ways possible.
3Davideo
I got a similar impression. Near as I can tell, the movement has reasonable demands, Thor gave reasonable critique, things got a little traction but not really enough, and things stayed there for like ~10 months. Then, when the deadline was nearing, some sort of hate campaign started against him, which shot up engagement with the original petition. While I broadly agree with their cause it's incredibly disappointing that the emotional and inaccurate approach is so much more effective than >
3Davideo
> actually approaching the issue on its merits instead.
pineapplecatastrophe
These are some of the problems with SKG:
- The petition in it's current state is too vague and does not account the many different ways in which games were built.
- Forcing devs to make the game fully playable client side will lead to a LOT of online cheating.
- Forcing restrictive legal programming requirements on indie devs will absolutely result in less games made / devs going back to big publishers.
Zalm
This. I'm gonna copy this comment and use it as most of these are the same arguments I make, aside from some devs simply not making a game because the inherit issues in revealing their proprietary code to the public.
BishlamekGurpgork
Best I understand it, the concern is that the back end behind games is really complicated, and that if they have to develop it to be extendable to consumer PCs as servers in addition to professionally-hostable, it'll make a lot of people less eager to make live service games.
His main objection as far as I can see is that it doesn't really clarify the details of what it's asking for and he wants an actionable proposal up front, not a "we'll figure it out when it gets traction" proposal.
Thisisknottheend
Some muck has definitely been flung at Maldavius Figtree, aka Thor. His rancid take on Stop Killing Games involved him actively and aggressively misinterpreting Stop Killing Games and demanding his followers not support the movement. The two main theories I've heard are that he's either an industry man at heart and actively wanting to sabotage a consumer right's movement, or he's a narcissistic douchebag who cannot swallow his pride and keeps doubling down despite being wrong.
Briarcastle
Also the third, he has (had) a live-service game with another YouTuber (Ludwing, I think) and took it as a personal attack (narcissist) that he'd actually have to do the right thing for his customers.
Though it looks like he got what he deserved and was booted from that games team.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
He left because the SKG movement was trying to kill games, actually, which he is against.
pineapplecatastrophe
He never demanded his followers not support the movement, where did you get that? He gave his opinion on an 8 minute YT video, which had some pretty valid points, and said he couldn't support the movement himself. Nothing misrepresented. And it's really funny to see people calling a guy who left corporate life to stream and run a ferret sanctuary a corpo.
WooSomethingAwful
From watching too many drama videos about him; He misunderstood what the movement was about, and refused to learn. His game dev experience seems to be fabricated, as he didn't work with gamedev at all at Blizzard. His blind popularity has waned after too many scandals where he was in the wrong or just straight up lied and decieved. A general unwillingess to give any critics a semblence of debate and banning all that disagreed with him has been a thing for years. Good at social engineering though
pineapplecatastrophe
Actually the 'internet' misunderstood what he said, and most people haven't watched his videos on SKG His concerns are 100% valid but a WoW community has been following him around trying to make him a villain in everything he does, like he was deciding factor for SKG doing anything or not. People really fell for it
WooSomethingAwful
But I did watch the videos, again with new knowledge. His concerns are not valid as he just straight up misconstrued everything he is concerned about. He is hunted, yes, but because he is a pathological liar with an enlarged ego, who can't accept fault? I followed him for heartbound. I took his side when SKG first came out cause I was non the wiser and believed him over some random no name. That was a mistake. Don't take my word for it, sure, but don't just blindly take his word either.
pineapplecatastrophe
What of his concerns from the video do you not find valid?
WooSomethingAwful
1/21 Long one ahead. If you didn't want a breakdown then sorry I guess, just ignore everything I send :) TLDR: He hasn't taken the time to look into the initiative at all and it shows. If I had bothered to read or watch information about it myself, which going into this I will assume you have, of course done, if you are arguing against. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y timestamps to this video only as it took too long for this one alone
GCRust
Imma be real - I keep hearing about the Stop Killing Games/PirateSoftware situation, but I have absolutely no clue what any of it is about and frankly for my own peace I'm not sure I want to know. All I know is I'm not sure why its a controversial opinion to want to prevent publishers from arbitrarily shutting down games in an era where absolutely everything is online exclusive.
Zalm
Because not every single online game is made by huge publishers and dev studios with infinite money. Smaller devs studios might not have the means or capacity to do what the initiative wants, and thus we might lose out on really good games because some people don't want them to ever go away, and they want to play an online game by themselves 20 years after it's released
NefariousGoop
It's been blown out of proportion as things often are. He had some legitimate criticism that was received poorly. I am absolutely behind the initiatives' spirit, but there are many ways it could bring serious harm to already broken industry. But it could also do good. I'm just a pessimist.
pineapplecatastrophe
Not controversial at all, and PirateSoftware agrees that is a problem with games going forward. He just thinks forcing all games to be made to be useable client-side only will lead to a lot of problems, which it absolutely will.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Short version: Corpo fucks everything else + this may hurt competition
Arbitrarynamehere
A streamer guy didn't understand what the initiative was and made up a bunch of strawmen arguments to knock down all authoritatively and everyone is rightfully dunking on him for being a bit of a moron
rusrsdude
He acts like a spoiled brat rich kid who, if he doesn't get his way, will use his resources to bully you and make you regret wronging him in any way shape or form. There's a lot of content about how he acts in mmorpgs, but whether they're true or not, I'm not entirely sure.. though through speculation, it seems like the allegations may be true.
pineapplecatastrophe
They aren't, it was wild speculation by WoW nerds after he was rude on that one DM run. People love a villain, even one that is trying to help games and ferrets lol.
rusrsdude
Idk, there are a bunch of controversies regarding him. Take a pick and dive in, I suppose.. but as a gist he's been accused of several "minor" things but none which he just accepted as truth and apologized, one instance being him and his community got several people to quit (bullying) playing Ashes of Creation. He went on the defensive and became argumentative, as usual without any apology for how his community acted nor for how he acted.
pineapplecatastrophe
Yeah I've touched on all of the major controversies. He's either apologized when he was a dick (which is commendable in this day and age), or stood by his principles when he had some pretty good points. I agree that he is snooty and overconfident, but it's because he's a developer, that's really how they all are lol. He is not Corpo Satan looking to steal your video game backlog, he is just pointing out some problems with what is currently on the petition.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
His view is that corporate + government, as two of the major parties that will figure out possible regulations will absolutely fuck it up (He comes across as left-leaning libertarian, to me, in general) + 3 swatting attempts have been done against him, most likely related to this.
Plus a ton of death threats. He, literally, opposes it because he thinks it will be bad for consumers and any non-triple-A dev/publisher.
(Notch also opposes it, but because he insulted Thor, that = supports it xD)
NationalistCanadianMooseWarrior
Ironic that notch would oppose it, after creating a game that has stayed more than relevant since 2009
Arbitrarynamehere
He thinks it will harm consumers because he doesn't know what it is and keeps making shit up
Zalm
It will harm consumers in that some games we could have gotten will never be made. Well simply never know how much bad it caused because someone with an idea and a little bit of time could have made some amazing solo dev project that grew into godlike popularity, but because his idea was basically an online game that would require him to make it playable offline, he never bothered.
Arbitrarynamehere
Another hallucination. It doesn't touch indie games.
Zalm
I have heard that said before, but I don't feel like that would be the case unless they specifically find a way to have it only apply to certain companies of a certain size/financial status/income.
Anything that affects big dev companies can most certainly affect smaller ones, and even worse depending on the situation. Not ever indie game is a single player, offline pixel game.
1eventHorizon9
Its worth nothing that his mild criticism of the Stop Killing Games petition has resulted in a staggering amount of death threats, harassment and an actual attempts on his live via swatting. So I can see why he isn't a Stop Killing Games biggest fan.
pineapplecatastrophe
100%. It's wild people think all of this is a reasonable response to someone pointing out issues they had with a petition that affected his field.
Arbitrarynamehere
It was not mild criticism. That also has nothing to do with the initiative itself
1eventHorizon9
It was mild and centered around live service games. I don't agree with him on that point, in fact considering all the pirate WoW servers, he's full of shit but he absolutely does not deserve the torrent of hate he has received. He certainly doesn't deserved to have people attempt to murder him with the police over it.
Arbitrarynamehere
Obviously that shit is bad but again it has literally nothing to do with the initiative
DonaldTrumpsFlaccidHairpiece
None of that is ok in any way, but do be careful about taking his claims at face value. He's bragged before on his stream about how he couldn't be swatted (He has some deal with local law enforcement) and his recent claims happened while offline, which aren't typically how people swat streamers.
pineapplecatastrophe
Yeah and because he took that unfortunately needed precaution, he is alive today. They did not bust in his door, they showed up and knocked to see what was going on.
DonaldTrumpsFlaccidHairpiece
Again, you're just relying on his word here, nothing more. I'm sure he's shown you video from his security cams of the incident, right?
pineapplecatastrophe
I've froth-mouthed vitriol across social media, and death threats in his stream, is that good enough? Doesn't seem unlikely he got swatted given the neckbeard types that are up in arms about this. (Not all SKG are neckbeards, but swatters and death threat-ers are)
anarchoFeline
speaking as a software engineer that has worked in the gaming space but not directly on games, there are a lot of backend components to an online multiplayer game. things like databases, caches, event streams, and other supporting services like auth, data validation, security, etc. it's not gonna be double click destiny_server.exe and you're good to go, it's complex. making that stuff possible for anyone to do would be hard and probably not worth it for companies so they just won't...
anarchoFeline
and I'm pretty sure that's what Thor was getting at but I haven't paid close attention. it's that rather than make those games possible to be run without the dedicated infra that game companies have been setting up for years they simply just won't release the game at all or just won't release it in the EU. for a certain type of game making it available forever just simply isn't tenable.
pineapplecatastrophe
100% correct. I've found that people who have a stronger understanding of how networking systems and client/server softwares operate have no issues with what Thor said.
anarchoFeline
yeah not too mention security concerns for games like wow or overwatch that use something like battle.net authenticate. even if they retire those games their other games will still use the same auth mechanisms and exposing that code anymore than they already do could provide info to malicious actors to exploit. I don't think it's a bad idea to preserve games but it's not as straight forward as some people think
pineapplecatastrophe
Yep. The good news is that there is no way in hell SKG legislation ever gets through the US House, so this is a lot of anger over nothing.
Zalm
If it affects the entire EU, there could still be repercussions in the states were it to succeed.
CoherentLemur
So, after doing some digging, it seems that some of his complaints about it are that it can potentially kill game development in certain areas, and this needs to be taken into consideration. He did go about it in a really bad way though.
Games as a service such as Destiny, PvP games such as Apex or Planetside 2, MMOs like WoW, basically anything that requires a large server to run it would need the backend rebuilt, and a lot of games currently in development would just die.
Nathanyel
Yeah I don't like him in general, but this seems a dumb thing to rake him over the coals with. The whole "don't kill games" movement seems idealistic, but naive.
Darkorth
As a co signer, the petition is not about that, nobody is asking that games are fixed retroactively, only that new games have and end of life build planned in the future, that doesn't require a backend to minimally run, go read about it here https://www.stopkillinggames.com/
slinkiisu
Sure but the consensus has been "let the lawmakers sort it out" as if lawmakers would EVER side with gamers
Darkorth
I'm not sure what you mean by consensus, here's the specific answer from the Q&A on stopkillinggames.com https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq#:~:text=A%3A%20Th">ames.com">stopkillinggames.com https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq#:~:text=A%3A%20The,being%20intentionally%20destroyed.
DonaldTrumpsFlaccidHairpiece
WoW literally has private servers running right now. Literally, the thing being asked to be allowed, is happening, currently, but if Blizz wanted to, they could force them to take it down. This would not stifle game dev in the least, there's so many examples of current and past games that have done things to allow them to be played forever. This is like saying automobile manufacturing would be stifled by forcing them all to have seat belts.
Arracor
Nah that's a blatant misrepresentation and he got it wrong and attacked it completely on purpose because he's making money off the system.
backrideup9
Sounds to me like the only thing that'll kill game dev is lack of funding. Good things the execs take so much salary and bonuses for themselves every year, now they can just cut back on their own greed and there won't be a problem. /s
trancek
Which is why the SKG initiative specifies that this would only apply to games released after legislation passes, and not retroactively, so that development studios know beforehand that they'll need to set up an end-of-life plan for their games.
yqpqfrdp625772
Grandfathering games like that means those games grandfathered in will just branch, like how wow did with wow classic and then the branches are going to drift, and then every game that’s made is just going to be branches of those grandfathered games that only large publishers could afford to own. Sure seems like there’d need to be a sunset clause.
CoherentLemur
Which I fully agree with SKG in general, but I'm still expecting a good 10-20 years where some games cannot be sold in the EU just due to the nature of how new laws tend to have unforeseen consequences.
I'm also expecting a lot of developers to lose their jobs as games get killed off because of this. Games take a long time to make. Just because it won't apply retroactively doesn't mean games won't die and companies won't downsize.
This needs to be done carefully. Politicians tend to rush.
Zalm
This is my biggest fear.
"... doesn't mean games won't die and companies won't downsize"
They could possibly kill or hundreds of smaller indie games currently in production, or ideas that could be amazing that will never even see production due to this type of law.
trancek
Games and studios are being killed off on a fairly large scale already without these laws in place, because of unscrupulous suits making financial maneuvers to enrich themselves at the expense of their employees (see all the rounds of layoffs at these companies in the midst of record profit numbers). They might take the opportunity to conveniently blame these laws if and when they hit the books, but nobody who's paying attention will be fooled. It's greed, pure and simple.
TinyOctopus
What about expansions? WoW has new expansions being released over the next few years. Are those exempt from this?
Arbitrarynamehere
They would never be included.
NefariousGoop
You could probably argue that it's not a new release but expansion to existing software, and such would be exempt from this? Maybe? I'm just a schmuck on the internet.
Blutsaugher
If it has expasions it's not a sunsetted game. Or do you mean what happens to expasions when a game ends its online service? Because in that case then as long as the base game is playable, so would be an expansion.
TinyOctopus
No. The rule for providing a means to continue to play only applies to games released after the proposed role takes effect. Are expansions considered new games, meaning that WoW would have to provide a means to play them after WoW makes way for WoW2? Or are the new expansions exempt from that rule.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
So then why not just say "these are things it hasn't considered" and list them rather than wishing a shitty outcome on them?
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Probably the multiple swatting attempts.
wadatahmydamie
Yeah, this whole thing sounds like it’s well-meaning, but clumsy in application for the way it’ll raise the cost of entry for smaller developers.
Large developers will be just fine, of course. They’ll just hike prices and consumers will just get fucked over from a different direction
skinnermarinkykinkydink
Smaller developers aren't making games as a service though, they aren't hosting massive server farms that require a login to connect to in order for you to play. The requirement to make sure the game works without the match making server or leaderboard or whatever minor server they host would be minimal extra coding.
A massive MMO going down would be more work but they have more resources too so percentage wise it's about the same.
wadatahmydamie
I think you’re too young to remember when MUDs were huge, and too myopic to see that for every giant company like Ubisoft that treats their customers like hogs to be slaughtered, there’s another 1,000 studios that’ll see their costs increase.
If you’re willing to volunteer your services as a coder, then by all means, do so.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
I would if that was an option. Forcing them to make it open source if they abandon it would be even better.
And the work to make a MUD type game into self hosted is pretty small, for that they could just release the server installer and make a tiny patch to add in specifying a server IP instead of hardcoding it.
and again these are all for future games, no one is forcing them to go back to something some random person made in their basement in the 90's.
skinnermarinkykinkydink
also a pile of MUDs are still running: https://medium.com/@the_andruid/multi-user-dungeons-10-games-still-serving-up-text-based-fun-in-2023-1e3951d3bf43 because they don't take giant servers to host.
Arbitrarynamehere
I beg you please read what the initiative is and not what Thor says it is - the entire problem with him in this saga is that he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
Lycanthian
So this is my biggest issue with the hate on Thor. While he went about it wrong and is overall on the wrong side of things, he did raise questions that should be answered. But instead of answering them, people just keep saying "that's not what the initiative is" so people ask what it is and the only thing ever pointed to are vague generalisms about what the initiative wants to do and not do. People don't seem to understand that vague generalisms don't fly in a legal setting 1/2
Lycanthian
For this to become law you need specific and direct legalese carved out to protect the games people are concerned will be adversely affected. So if you slap a note on someone's desk that essentially says "protec games" you can't pass burden of proof when someone asks what the exact legal language is that does that.
Arbitrarynamehere
Once again I am begging you to actually read the damn thing because it isn't vague! Where there are grey areas, those are left to negotiate specifics that won't hurt the industry or the initiative overall. There's FAQs on their site. It's actually not that hard to understand
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
But I was told the benefit of it is, from the supporters, was that it is vague. Now it's not vague?
Lycanthian
Just to clarify, this isn't an argument between me and you over the initiative I have no issue with the initiative My only point is that when someone asks you to clarify a point in your document you don't get to say "just read it" You are required to point out this portion they are asking for, at least a legal setting.