maximilianfragglebottom
113528
3532
157
Nov 21, 2020 3:58 PM
maximilianfragglebottom
113528
3532
157
DewiMorgan
So, tax savings, rather than earnings?
lovingspace
I could spend a billion dollars on useful stuff. Easy peasy. And 1T. I agree with the hope that there aren't any billionaires, but...
ElBarbu
This would never work. In the end we would always have someone exploiting the system.
HippoLover85
fandomsandfeminism and i need to have a discussion on economics. intention is correct. execution is majorly flawed.
LerryV2
FUUUUUUUUUUCk the rich. THey have something I dont and I dont like it.
Mithi
The "have something" because they took it from EVERYONE ELSE.
Tenugui
Nobody in this site seems to understand what a billionaire actually is.
Nexodaedalus
A great visualisation tool... https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
wellthisjustgotinteresting
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
noneweregiven
sungsungasong
So don’t save your money?
leodavinci1
Except the material progress of the entire world proves these ideas are false.
darthbuttersticks
What this person is missing is the fact that billionaires DO circulate their money. Whether you agree that it trickles down is another
darthbuttersticks
A debate entirely, but they rarely hold on to their assets in straight cash in a box. Even if it’s in a bank, those funds go into investment
darthbuttersticks
accounts which go to other businesses.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
A wealth ceiling will make people find ways to hide their money, or just stop trying to earn more than it, making it useless
TheNightman53
FuriousBakedPotato
And eventually the glass under breaks. I surmise it won't be long now.
maximilianfragglebottom
YouHaveNoodsAndIHaveAnInbox
This is a far more accurate representation.
GaurieBanner
I just wanna say, the top image can be true depending on the company, I run my company the top way;good pay,benefits and profit share. Will
GaurieBanner
I ever be filthy rich or a billionaire, No but i will live very comfortable and I will also know my employees are as well cause; They are
GaurieBanner
The backbone of my success, I alone wouldn’t be successful without them
mn634
JonnyCrew
But how do they replace the glasses so fast?
HelpMeNotUprootMyFamilyTree
Lobbying
kenta89
I dont understand how lobbying can be legal. I dont see how it's consequences can be anything but corruption
jex0
Because lobbying at its core is literally people trying to convince Congressmen to vote for things. It's the paid lobbying that's bad. ->
jex0
So by writing to or talking to your Congressmen you are lobbying for certain Ideas. They can't make that illegal because it would undermine>
YouHaveNoodsAndIHaveAnInbox
Thats not true! It trickles down into offshore holding accounts to avoid paying taxes.
FlamingDeathGoat
ACTUAL trickle down economics already existed before Regan, it's called taxes. When people get way too rich, fucking tax them.
abobeaver5772
Reagan did not signficiantly lower effective taxation by more than a few percentage points. His second wave of reforms purged a massive
abobeaver5772
Number of exemptions and simplified the tax code. An 80% tax rate with a million exemptions making the effective rate 30% is worse than 30%
Groostav
This demonstrates a misunderstanding; No billionaire has a billion dollars, they’ve got billions in investments. They are owed billions.
Allrighty
Nationalise their investments.
OriginalLaffs
This is a critical point and fundamental misunderstanding by those who share the post’s views
thanatos777
Really? Are you sure? That seems very weird, because this sure seems like Bezos has over a billion dollars: 1/
thanatos777
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/bezos-sells-more-than-3-billion-worth-of-amazon-shares-.html
BinaryLogic
Linked article literally describes $10 billion fund for earth conservation, and expected recipients of $100 million grants.
thanatos777
Where did those billions of dollars come from? I thought Jeff Bezos didn't have billions of dollars?
OriginalLaffs
He has ACCESS to billions of dollars. It’s not sitting in a pile doing nothing, as implied by the post. It is in investments etc.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
That and things like wealth ceilings either make them hide their wealth, or stop trying to earn above it, meaning none goes to the public.
SploogeMcDuck316
Yup. Instead just tax em.
grandestgrandeur
I remember, about there being a study that proved. Poor ppl's $ is actually MORE valuable to the economy, than Rich ppl's $ 1/2
grandestgrandeur
Due to the Poor's $ goes right back INTO the economy. But the rich's is hoarded or worse, stored/spent out of country. 2/2
chancethewrapper79
The money multiplier effect is the term your looking for. Overshooting profits and investments hurts an economy. A fam buying food helps it
chancethewrapper79
Off-shoring* not overshooting
yeah222
I bet you a billion dollars that a could spend a billion dollars
DKB13
Don't believe in a ban, just that there should be huge taxes on wealth beyond a certain point. If you taxed Bezoz 90% after his first 1/2
edasm
That is not how (US) taxes work. Wealth isn't taxed, income is.
DKB13
I didn't comment on any existing tax structures
SROF
That's not how taxation works. If he is worth 100 billion but does not rise billions you cant tax that way of wealth
DKB13
That's not how the current system works
ScienceIsNotALiberalConspiracy
The US tax system is predicated on income, not gross or even net worth. Ergo, we don't tax Jeff on $150B every year.
DKB13
I've literally just said; that's not how the current system works. I'm not talking about the current system. Reform.
DKB13
2. Billion, he'd still.be worth about 13 billion.
Einer
That’s great idea. Every founder wouldn’t grow his company after that and would work on lowering it’s income and employment.
Einer
And less income and less employment = less tax.
DKB13
Or the fact that this was a comment on personal wealth, and it would have zero impact on business operations?
Einer
Most of that wealth is stock which means business operations.
DKB13
No, it doesn't.
DKB13
Or bizarre logic that as someone would now earn 100m per billion made would suddenly curtail or their business operations?
DKB13
Where to start; your failure to separate taxation on a company and on an individual?
xerath
But what do you tax? If you own a painting and it increases in value and you don’t sell it.. that’s wealth.. you should pay to keep it?
Mithi
Yes. Or was that a trick question?
Fibbus
Your property is taxed every year but rich people don't feel property taxes.
barnwolf
Like a wealth tax? I'm pretty sure most of Bezo's wealth is tied up in stocks, which he never paid tax on, because he never sold them.
Einer
He is selling them every year.
barnwolf
Yes, but I assume he still has most of them.
DKB13
Yeah, guess I'd envision it more as an asset tax. Pretty sure Elizabeth Warren had a pretty comprehensive plan for this- I'm just some dude
catrov
I would point out how economics works, but why get downvoted? You go for it, tiger! Here's an upvote: +1.
chancethewrapper79
You say that as if theres no such thing as corruption/flaws with a system. The post may be naive but its a big problem that needs attention
catrov
Unquestionably. But proposing naive solutions makes the problems worse, not better. I gave you an upvote anyway.
trippingthelightfantastic
sonicthehedgefundhog
Hey my name is relevant
kristofersmith10365
What a lot of people don't understand is that 99% of billionaires are worth that much. They don't have that much cash just laying around.
kristofersmith10365
To add, it mostly is invested in properties, or companies, or land etc. Granted, they probably still have a LOT just sat around.
yallmfsneedjesus
Indeed. Its because their business or company is so successful it is WORTH that much. People are stupid as fuck.
trippingthelightfantastic
comacomacomacomachameleon
yeah divided government is the best-case scenario because it means the government can't push costly regulations.
ChainmailleAddict
Regulations are why we have clean drinking water. Over-regulation is a thing but we are nowhere near there.
AreYouABadPerson
Found the libertarian. What's it like to be this fundamentally wrong about, well, everything?
StubbornViking
Lots of people are downvoting you but I have no idea why. What do people hate so much about your comment?
Glernaj
Because regulations are about protecting those without power. People like to say "but the businesses", but they already have the power.
StubbornViking
Ohhh I thought his comment was from the banks perspective, didn’t read it as anti-regulation. My b!
wwibbles
What is it about this comment that you feels brings anything sane or worthwhile to the topic? Branch Stonewalling good? Regulations bad?
comacomacomacomachameleon
it adds extra context to the Goldman Sachs analysis that the tweet left out. Their belief is that divided government has the best results.
wwibbles
I'm now more confused. Tweet says "Less money to help people when divided" This means they like it because costly regulations?
thanatos777
Goldman Sachs is one of the most evil entities on the planet.
TempestRose
Regulations are bad. I should be allowed to keep my baby under a floorboard but govt is wasting money in dum shit like that. /s
StubbornViking
Ohhhh I thought his comment was from the perspective of the banks. Yes regulations necessary
jmw91917
What if you want to keep a majority share of your publicly traded company that is valued at two billion dollars?
GeorgeGkr
That would be a great way to maintain control of the company you founded. But #eattherich memes are hip right now.
Vanadium235
Companies shouldn't be publicly traded or controlled by any one person, they should be owned by the workers who work there.
jmw91917
Yeah. There shouldn't be money either. Like a guy could bake bread *hits blunt* and trade that for a guy who builds cars..
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
Then why would anyone want to start a company if their work never secures ownership or control of their own business?
noneweregiven
Ah, the neoliberal battle cry of "Profit is the ONLY motivation for doing things!"
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
If it's a JOB then yes it's the main motivation, and someone trying to start a company won't get a loan on the basis of pride in their work.
noneweregiven
You mean a system built by neoliberals is run almost exclusively on neoliberal principles? NOOOO, say it ain't so!
TaviRus
Why? Does the person who comes up with the idea and builds a company that is profitable to the point of having employees deserve nothing?
TaviRus
Does the entity who risks much to invests in small businesses not deserve something for the investment that enables the business to...
TaviRus
Expand and then hire new employees, or purchase equipment/space that drives other jobs. Is there no value in that? Is there no value in...
TaviRus
In leadership. In someone who has the skill and foresight to see a new market, and to navigate the troubles of building into that market?
Lulabel73
People who think like this think people shouldn’t own more than one property either. There will always be billionaires and they should be-
axxeem
Castrated.
Lulabel73
Are you assuming that only men can be billionaires! :)
Lulabel73
- made to pay fair wages and taxes. That is all.
Astro777
If they were made to pay those things then they wouldn't be billionaires.
Lulabel73
Yeah they would. Some would drop off but there would still be billionaires. Other countries have billionaires.
Astro777
Those same countries still have poverty and other issues. And yes, over time billionaires would be eliminated because of inheritance taxes.
Lulabel73
New people will become billionaires. Not all are rich from inheritance.
Briqs
It's got a touch of utopia vibes going on but shit.. can we do this?
Xander77777
Only if your politicians aren't bought and sold. So... no.
Type17
In the UK, the top rate of tax was 99.5% for WW2. Was reduced to ~90% in the 50's & 60's. Results: research required, but it has been done.
abobeaver5772
No one paid it. It was so riddled with loopholes effective rates were generally around 30%. The Reagan/Thatcher era mostly just simplified
abobeaver5772
The tax code and set the rates around what people were paying
Comradecarl
Short answer is, No.
jjay20
America has taxed those making over 200,000 at 95% during world war 2. It’s doable. Maybe not 100%. But 95% is a precedent.
Conser1
I sincerely doubt anyone actually paid the 95% especially when that was income tax. Bezos has an annual salary of around $85k.
UncleRat
You make the billionaires comply or we put them against the wall. Walls are great motivators.
abobeaver5772
You can but it is stupid. You can dismantle the megacorps via deregulation that removes the barriers they rely on ti maintain obscene size
abobeaver5772
Such as IP law, the corporate income tax, and lots of more industry specific laws.
abobeaver5772
This would most likely greatly reduce billionaire value as most of their wealth comes from stocks in such corps
betelgeux
Sure - all you need are the billionaires to stop their lobbyists from blocking something like that from being made into law.
BearsDontCare
So...violence?
caerulakid
MoreButterForMyHam
It's the only thing that ever works
Dacricket
Violence.
Steps1000
No. Creating a wealth ceiling wouldn't stop billionaires, it'd just create 'sub-billionaire families' that 'independently' control wealth.
ROGUEdenied
not true, if this was implemented correctly they could not sub the money to anyone. It would be tiered and not a hard cut-off
MickeyBlueEyes2
Plus a wealth ceiling would just encourage consumption for the sake of consumption. When we should be working to reduce it.
Ninjainslippers
In the days of Eisenhower, the top marginal tax rate was 90%. We built the Interstate highway system. It's possible, but not likely today.
Jusmar
90% income tax cool. Let's tax Bezos yeah? 80,000*.9= 72,000. Yes, we fuckin got him!
Ninjainslippers
What the fuck are you talking about?
Jusmar
Tax Bezos 90%, you're going to make 72k/yr. He has paper wealth, not real.
abobeaver5772
Except the effective tax rate under Reagan barely went down.
LookHarder80085
Everything after a billion goes to charity and we name a dog park after you. Maybe a certificate that says you won the game of capitalism.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
And then they ceised to stop trying to earn anything above that billion, and charity got nothing because of an oversimplified argument.
Imalwaysready
Yeah, they use money for keeping score. So saying the reached the end and won and can stop now is a good idea.
LookHarder80085
Yes I stole it, go fuck yourself.
HiddenSanity
Don't mind if I do.
yetipc
beyond stupid.
Ringshadow
Sucking up to the rich people will not make you rich. They will not help you, they will not support you and you will not be rich.
yetipc
I *personally* have saved people Millions of dollars. via my technical expertise. I have prospered in the process, you do not know shit.
TiffanyTwisted
This is such a pessimistic view and the reason you will never acquire wealth.
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
I think he's just saying the idea of a wealth ceiling and putting a hard cap on earnings and net worth is stupid
trippingthelightfantastic
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
I love how there was literally a movie showing how toxic Zuck is to everything he touches, and then everyone kept being chill with him.
kimbo305
You talking about Social Dilemma or Social Network?
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
The fact that you even have to ask only makes the point :P
kimbo305
So which is it?
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
I was specifically referring to the Social Network.
Bollockstousernames
I say this fully aware of my hypocrisy in maintaining Facebook, Insta and WhatsApp accounts, but fuck Mark Zuckerberg as hard as possible
Jusmar
CourierNewsroom posts ads for democratic candidates and presents them as news. https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/courier-newsroom/
theGildedDanMan
Bruh, you know how many right wing voices Facebook and twitter have banned for NOTHING? Join the club.
AreYouABadPerson
You mean how many right wing voices they've banned after showing far, far more patience with than they do anyone else? Because that's far
AreYouABadPerson
more accurate, regardless of what the right-wing victim complex keeps telling you.
theGildedDanMan
I certainly agree there’s a victim complex. Ducking everyone in America has one these days. I’m just clearly stating what I’ve witnessed
AreYouABadPerson
What you've witnessed is what idiots within the right-wing media bubble say is reality. That is detached from actual reality.
theGildedDanMan
And maybe instead of having done “NOTHING” what they actually did was criticize someone. Thereby “breaking” TOS harassment “rules” which/
theGildedDanMan
No they didn’t harass fucking anybody.
AnonOmis1000
And yet they are doing Senate investigates about him censuring conservatives.
theGildedDanMan
Cuz... cuz they do censor conservatives. Twitter is worse tho
AreYouABadPerson
What's it like to be this fundamentally, blatantly wrong?
theGildedDanMan
They very obviously do! I’ve witnessed people get banned on both sides, but it’s worse on the right. How is that wrong?
AreYouABadPerson
Because literally all objective observation of reality shows that it really, really isn't real. Right-wing idiots on social media tend to be
trippingthelightfantastic
Gaslight, Obstruct, Project, GOP
theGildedDanMan
Cuz... cuz they do censor conservatives. Twitter is worse tho
Dzingara
Facebook is toxic. Idk why people use it still. There are dozens of other platforms.
Jusmar
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/courier-newsroom/ Unlike Imgur and Twitter, where everything is done in good faith.
LongPorkRockyMountainOyster
Facebook has a huge market share and also has absolutely perfected their addictive algorithms. People are literally addicted to the way /1
LongPorkRockyMountainOyster
Facebook makes them feel. The whole UI is littered with triggers for little dopamine hits.
Teriio12
All social media Is toxic
Moccar
I hope you realize the irony of you commenting this..
Teriio12
Yep, that's the joke
Jusmar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier_Newsroom
graehall
The only people who are against this are idiots who think billionaires earned it, or that one day they'll be billionaires. Both are false.
wellthisjustgotinteresting
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
possibleprincipe
I’m an accountant and I work with a lot of these idiots who think that some day they will be rich.
graehall
That must be depressing :(
CycloneSP
or, now hear me out, billionaires don't actually have billions of dollars in a bank account. most billionaires have *assets* that are
unreallystic
It drives me crazy how much I hear about wealth ceiling, as if everything is liquid and this simple.
Delathi
These are also issues with a billionaire who has that cash or someone who owns a thing that becomes valued at a billion. It gets complex 1/x
Delathi
If you own a thing and that thing rises in value are you forced to sell the thing if you bought it for less than the wealth limit?
theGildedDanMan
These people are stupid, pay them no mind. They don’t understand logic.
InfiniteNoodle
I agree there shouldn't be billionaires but I do disagree they way they're going about it is completely wrong and dangerous.
WenzelDashington
Exactly. Caosdth sitting in his mothers basement scratching lotto tickets with the belief that this would affect him when he becomes rich
KroniK907
I'd maybe be against a person having a billion dollars, as long as you arent counting the stock they own in their own companies.
KroniK907
SpaceX and Tesla need that money to continue operating as companies, so musk doesn't have real access to his stock options
KroniK907
Same with pretty much every other founder ceo
theGildedDanMan
Same with pretty much all the top 10 actually. That money is t liquidated but we still hate them for it. It literally is being used to :
theGildedDanMan
Support the economy in the exact way these people think it doesn’t. But nope “billionaire bad”
Euchre
So, name a billionaire that wasn't self made. They exist, but can you name one?
UncleMeaty
MacKenzie Scott
Euchre
So it took you 15 min to find an ex-wife of a self made billionaire, who got independently rich by divorce. Not all that many of those...
Euchre
...and not made by taking inheritance from rich forebears to become even more rich. Those hereditary rich are the ones you want to eliminate
UncleMeaty
No, it took me about 3 seconds. I wasn't sitting here waiting for you to post a fucking comment so I could reply to it.
BlueDuckPale
If you behead a billionaire you get to take his pow... I mean money right?
AllBent
There can be only one.
Euchre
No, they spread it out evenly amongst everyone, because bureaucracy never cheats, and everyone will be happy forever, and not just blow it.
johnrocks
They think a hierarchy is a natural, not-constructed thing, which is idiotic
ShouldersDeepInAHorse
I mean a lot of hierarchys ARE natural, the ones of competence most notably, but billionaires are rarely moraly competent
greentights
And usually not competent in the areas that their companies run
M4Firefly
I believe hierarchy is a natural thing across all of nature, BUT I think it is far too artificially inflated in humans.
myungyoon
Hasn't this been humanity's way for thousands of years?
AreYouABadPerson
So was horrifically high levels of infant mortality and dying in child birth. Should we not strive for better than "how it's been" now?
swattyKnotts
That doesn't mean it's a good thing.
myungyoon
Didnt say it was good, but that it may not be as simple a thing to extricate from collective mentality. Black & white is easier I guess.
graehall
Tough to see the system from the outside when you're caught up in it. Tough, but not _that_ tough.
kittenzforall
Tough in that it requires effort in the first place
Yakatakaplah
Awareness isn't helpful if it's used to encourage apathy. Hopelessness over our ability to change things is a real part of the problem.
graehall
Gotta get fired up and push for change.
daromander
Idk, I think someone like Gates has earned it. His product has more than a billion copies
theGildedDanMan
Hahaha more downvoted cuz these idiots “billionaire bad”
GingerJam23
Gates has also given away 90% of his income because he knows he could never spend it. The idea is to get more billionaires to do what he has
daromander
So the issue is what they do with their money, not how much they have?
lordzygos
That's the point of these taxes: So that people who DO have Bill Gates level money have to give back like Bill Gates does.
daromander
High taxes are good. Saying billionaires shouldn't be allowed isn't
elmonosabio
Though I like your idea, most billionaires’ money isn’t in cash, so it can’t be circulated anyway.
CKnowles
Though I like your idea, fish can't wear shoes, so balloons can't be eaten anyway.
dakkaffex
They're still funds that could theoriticaly be transfered/taxed upon, right ?
TheStaffmaster
this, sadly
Crustypeanut
This! But as other people pointed out, no one needs to own billions of dollars worth of stocks/physical assets/property/etc right?
GeorgeGkr
Yes you do. If you want to retain control of your company, you need 51% of the stock
Mithi
Then OWN your company. You are aware that this is an option, right?
Vanadium235
Companies should be controlled by the workers and managed democratically.
SIGMA920
A low level worker in a warehouse won't be able to provide good input on whether to switch from one transport company to another. A CEO
SIGMA920
can isn't in charge of managing expenses directly, their job is to run the company as a whole, not micromanage the company expenses. A