malbec
167153
1636
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https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/560798-police-chief-hails-good-guy-with-a-gun-after-officer-kills/
May 16, 2022 8:52 PM
malbec
167153
1636
53
https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/560798-police-chief-hails-good-guy-with-a-gun-after-officer-kills/
ILikeChocolateAndRaspberries
USA in a nutshell...
dudehiemer
If only there was some way to stop these "tragic" police shootings. Maybe start with not having right-wing terrorists train police.
britdick
This is insane.
boarwar
No, this is America.
SaveitforQueenDoppelpoppolus
they’re calling the guy they shot a hero instead of pointing out he had an unpaid parking ticket from 2005? oh i guess he must be white
MasterChristopher
Betty White (RIP)
QuartzPoker
Security training I went through says as soon as the cops arrive your hands should be visible and empty. You can pull out your phone after
QuartzPoker
They have determined you aren't a threat.
QuartzPoker
Note: this is specifically for active shooter training. If you see a cop kicking a man on the street, film that!
Ludus
Never forget kids - All Cops Are Bad
OsirisX1
So the police rolled up and shot the first person with a gun they saw, no questions asked.
BethMme4
This story is almost a year old. Is this a bot post?
malbec
Nice new account you got there fella!
PrincessNausicaa
From the headline, I thought the chief had been shot and was approving of his killer from beyond the grave.
TsubakiTragic
English comprehension is not a high priority for news services these days.
hopelesslybuoyant
Same
Wirefish
Poorly written headline.
hateanyway
*last words: great job, sir.
Syrpynt
*Handsome Anime Face, Wink*
SpamYarBlockers
Eats shoots and leaves
redmuz4
Eats roots shoots and leaves out our way.
espi0920
Yeah, I actually thought the article was satire because of the piss-poor phrasing.
EdoubleLIOdoubleT
Same here...
Jallenallen
Yeah me too.
benreilly10
Same
robotlaserninjashark
That headline gave me a permanently wrinkled forehead.
mizzamir
Seeing a whole lot of blaming the victim here when the real issue is cops arriving on a scene and shooting someone without shouting warnings
NERDRAGEohacat
Problem is we know from past incidences that doesn't matter. Remember the shootings of Andrew Finch and Daniel Shaver? The former was 1/3
NERDRAGEohacat
shot because he raised a hand when surprised by a cop that snuck up on him, the latter was shot because he tried to pull up his pants 2/3
NERDRAGEohacat
while obeying aggressive and contradictory commands. Cops shouted warnings in both situations, victims were screwed regardless. 3/3
acuteavocado7
because the police exist to kill u, not protect u.
drbjrart2
Sad but not new, there was an ex cop turned cop killer Christopher Dorner, while tracking them down cops fired on 2 trucks.that didn't match
drbjrart2
his truck, shot 2 women shredded some dudes truck, cop are really bad at identifying things and sharing info.... bad look
Voojagig
Maybe it's the police that need their guns taken away?
Lemmingofdarkestnight
Maybe not before we take the guns from the crazy people.
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
That includes a lot of cops.
Lemmingofdarkestnight
Damn right it does.
Hnetu
Hence the fallacy. If there's a bad man with a gun and good men with guns, how do the good tell the others from the bad?
goodguyC
1.) I had to take an 'active shooter' class when I worked at this hospital, and the officer who taught the class reprimanded the staff for
goodguyC
2.) not calling the police when he, the instructor, a well-known police officer, entered the building with firearms...
wiccancrow
nopost
If only the gun had a gun, this whole thing could have been prevented! /s
grimdis
Good guy with a gun fantasy vs reality; Cops won't know you aren't the original shooter. You get killed. Good work good guy with a gun!
matthdew
ACAB
cenataur
US police are like a Call of Duty co-op - no stealing kill points!
hnngh
There was movie/show with an active shooter in a mall and people started pulling out their concealed carries and started shooting each other
Arock77
Every concealed carry training I've ever done has said not to pick up their gun, and to literally drop yours after the threat is down.
Miller16of16
Exactly!
Youhavinagiraffe
Yep, if you're a civilian a bad decision in a stressful situation is always 100% your fault. You need to be a cop before your errors...
Youhavinagiraffe
...are considered someone else's responsibility! He was the lucky one really. The poor cop who shot him has to suffer weeks of paid leave
kojenk
Not to mention his poor wife having to deal with his murder induced boner
Svartlebee
It's an open carry state, for all we know he had no training.
armydoc17D
This!
Arock77
Or drop yours on the ground and get your hands up if you see police
Wispless
In any self-defense class they say to always have the gun pointed at the aggressor even after they are down and move their weapon away.
Wispless
You never know if they are just faking it. Disarming any aggressor is also taught, but mainly GTFO and get cover once they are down.
Arock77
Whoever teaches that has no business teaching. The police roll up to a shots fired call and see some asshole pointing a gun at another 1
Arock77
2 asshole, they don't know the score, they just see someone threatening another with death or serious physical injury using a deadly weapon
nobleImaginationWrecker
YUP! Why risking being a target. They're gonna cuff you anyways until they know you didn't do it.
OneNameHere
Only if you're white. If your black the racists will charge you anyway.
taurol
You misspelled "kill"
crusadurus
Sadly you often wont have time to do that, and it requires killing the people you perceive as a threat as opposed to trying to detain em.
giffyloob
no good deed something something something
IcouldntfindmymedsthismorningsoItookyours
Swashbuckler101
Gee, I wonder why they feel the need for a 3rd party investigation. It’s almost like they know the cops will get off on the Whoops Defense
dasAchteck
well obviously the solution is more guns. /s
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
A good guy with a gun could have stopped the good guy with a gun from shooting the good guy with a gun!
Jarjarthejedi
If the gun had had a gun it could have prevented this! /s
BigBloop
Not only more guns but bigger guns! Greater guns! Gun that has a gun! Guns that make normal guns look like less of a gun!
ACentaurElbowDeepInMe
Not more guns, BIGGER guns. Buh-bye "Good Guy with a gun", hello "Dude with a Howitzer"! /s
giffyloob
FragileDonkey
RandallKavanaugh
'fuckin 'mericans
Warvillage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es
ThisIsMyRealAccount
In theory, if everyone had a gun, simply having a gun wouldn’t cause the cops to shoot you on sight. (Not saying that’s an actual solution)
Warvillage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es
JadeNB1729
But probably holding the weapon that an active shooter was described as having would still cause trouble.
tuxedobob
The cops shoot people without guns now, so… maybe it’s just the cops.
TheRealArclight
holy fuck dude that was literally what happened.....my god.
dasAchteck
That's a pretty garbage theory.
ThisIsMyRealAccount
How so? Cops roll up and see 10 people standing near the body, all with guns, and shoot none of them. It wouldn’t be an identifying feature.
NERDRAGEohacat
There's no way to know if everyone calling 911 is looking at the same shooter, so police always go in assuming there could be more than 1/2
NERDRAGEohacat
one. They roll up and see ten armed guys around one unarmed body because one of them had the bright idea to pick up evidence? All dead. 2/2
TanithRosenbaum
Or they roll up, see 10 people with guns, and shoot all of them because they don't know what the situation is and assume a gang crime.
UnhelpfulAnswers
How to disprove the "good guy with a gun" BS with this simple step
WalksWithNoFear
Not always BS but this is a consequence of the real world, not Hollywood and the Hollywood ending where the good guy arrives just in time to
WalksWithNoFear
Save everybody and win back his girl.
LongoloidFartExplosion
This is only one data point, except for all the other times it has happened.
MyGenericUserNames
You guys need to sort out all this gun bullshit, it's destroying your country.
trustworthyfart
I don’t think guns are as big of a deal as the rising fascism.
mardukkur
Sane states have repeatedly "sorted it out" only to have our sensible regulations overturned by the FUCKING LUNATICS on the Supreme Court.
fractalsphere
So they shot the good guy. And they're loudly admitting it. And the cop who did so will be punished, right?
NERDRAGEohacat
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/11/08/olde-town-arvada-shooting-johnny-hurley
Chimichanga007
Pandragun
He shouldnt have picked up the rifle. They were looking for a gunman with an AR when they showed up, who already killed one person.
mrthewhitee
There are 15 million AR in America. You can't have a 2nd amendment and allow cops to shoot first at anyone holding a gun similar to shooter.
trustworthyfart
You can if you accept the fact that carrying an ar15 during an active shooting might get you killed.
crusadurus
And yet most right wingers seem unable to comprehend this problem. Iv said this to a SUPER right winger who thinks cops are trash, nothing.
NeoBaggins
Generally the rules of engagement require officers to id themselves/call for surrender. Unless the cop somehow thought the guy was aiming>
Lowslefthand
That was my question, they just open fired on him without identifying themselves?
VulcanP90
duh
NeoBaggins
at him, which is unlikely, I’d say it’s a case of nerves leading to a protocol violation, which is understandable, but also pretty>
NeoBaggins
inexcusable. Also, it’s definitely not on the civilian here. Picking up and unloading the weapon is commendable. And what if the civ had>
NeoBaggins
used his own AR from his truck? Situation would likely have played out the same.
TheMasterDB8er
Exactly^. They literally shot first asked questions later. The exact opposite of how law enforcement should act
TireeRunner
Lol since when do filthy pigs care about rules or procedures? It's not like many of them are literate anyways
TheMasterDB8er
^^ There was an active shooter. They don’t care about details, they just finally got a target they can shoot without consequence.
dingofdong
As I understand it, even US troops in active warzones have to follow escalation of force rules; unless the guy was actively pointing the +
dingofdong
+ rifle and aiming at the officer in question (which, y'know, given the situation I highly doubt he was), is he not at least owed a warning+
TheMasterDB8er
That being said, hopefully there is consequences for this pure incompetent carelessness. But thats the norm for american police.
TireeRunner
They kill without consequence whether there's an active shooter or not
tr26
What if he was a "good guy with an AR?" AR is a very very popular platform in the US.
tlamstrike
There was a church shooting in Texas that was stopped by a neighbor who grabbed his AR.
tr26
Good thing he didn't match the description.
trustworthyfart
Than he should have taken the training that tells you to drop it after the area is clear. Better yet, mandate the training.
tr26
No, the cops shouldn’t shoot first unless positive the suspect is an active threat and not a civilian with a 100% legal arm.
trustworthyfart
How many cops are supposed to get gunned down before they are allowed to fire?
tr26
I dunno, about half as many as pizza delivery drivers? Fewer than cops who died of covid?
tr26
Don’t say the victim didn’t do enough when the cops aren’t doing THEIR job right
trustworthyfart
I’m not blaming the victim. I am blaming the system that allows people to carry without training. Stoping armed gun men is what cops are for
yoHoeYoHoe
Devils advocate, but why would you pickup an gun mans weapon? That’s the first thing the police would see if given a description.
tcpolecat7
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. That seemed a rather dumv move there. Esp since cops get jumpy when one of their own is taken out.
Maverickaura
you secure a firearm before administering first aid to a gunman. this involves picking it up, putting the safety on, and moving it away.
Maverickaura
reasons why you might want to administer first aid to a gunman include but are not limited to; putting him in prison, not making a martyr...
mendrak
He paid the iron price.
chewybrian
Every other Perry Mason or western--someone walks into murder scene, picks up the gun, someone else walks in-"This isn't what it looks like"
Rignak
I always imagined this was such BS. That any normal sabe person wouldn't mess with it. Guess I was wrong.
NoFather
To express your second amendment rights.
HarryDresdenIsMySpiritAnimal
Playing a further advocate of deviltry: given today's political climate, what if he assumed the gunman wasn't alone?
Cutthroatlemur
To render it non- dangerous/ Unload it, remove mag, unchamber the live round. This is prudent.
desertfox721
I would assume to clear the weapon. Eject the round, clear the magazine. But honestly, it’s all just adrenaline moving you at that point.
duhqueenmoki
Teacher here. We have shooter drills twice a year. Every single time we are reminded never to take their gun for this exact reason.
EnigmaWearingHeels
That is so depressing to read. Sigh. What a world we live in.
alcaray
Maybe he didn't?
OneNameHere
Possibly to disarm the weapon? Unfortunately we can't tell since he's fucking dead.
mrthewhitee
To not leave a live weapon out in the open. Don't care if you think it wasn't the right thing to do, doesn't deserve death.
unc0nnected
I don't think anyone is saying he deserved death for picking up the gun only that it led to his death
Kohbah
I'm not sure victim blaming counts as devils advocacy. Having said that, I can fully understand a different mentality if I lived..
Kohbah
...somewhere as utterly batshit dangerous as America, so if this is inappropriate to point out then I apologise and please don't shoot me.
NickRivieraMD
what's the point even if you can't loot the body?
Maverickaura
why would he pick up the gun? oh i dunno, to secure it perhaps? you dont want to leave a loaded, unsafetied firearm just laying in public
hydrualic
Sounds like a made up part to help the cops skip blame. Hope there was video of this.
BongsandDongs
Did he really even have the gun or is that a cover story
IAmNotNSAsodonotbeparanoid
That’s the right question
M4Firefly
This is logic and reason. Not devils advocate. It was the mans equal fault for walking around with the murderers weapon.
2Used2bUseful
I agree. However, its ridiculous that civilians need to be more calm and collected than a "trained" officer
AuntieCoddswaddle
Adrenaline is a helluva drug.
rossimus
Because you were taught that there is such a thing as a Good Guy With a Gun
minipancho94
Yea first thing you do is call 911 and alert dispatch. 2nd thing you do is secure your weapon and render aide if safe.
BigDaddysMeatWagon
Last time this was posted, people pointed out he did everything wrong, like he did the right thing to make confusion.
Svartlebee
It's an open carry state, for all they knew, there could have been over 100 dude's there with an AR.
kravlin
Arvada's laws ban open carry within city limits. Most of the Denver Metro doesn't have open carry.
OmarAlHadeen
A lot of you haven’t yelled at horror movie characters for not taking the killer’s weapon when they think he’s dead, and it shows.
MushroomFiend
At the same time, the officer's first action shouldn't be to shoot.
SlumberingChaos
Devil's Devil's Advocate, holding a gun is not illegal, i.e. 2nd Amendment. Killing someone "cuz they had a gun" is not sufficient = Murder
guy23
Because of someone doesn't have control of the weapon then the fucker or his friend could get it.
Maverickaura
exactly. people don't just die the second a bullet touches them. gunman was likely still breathing, and he was securing the weapon before >
Maverickaura
<, presumably, administering first aid to keep him alive so the bastard could see prison.
guy23
Is a risk for confusion. But a risk that could save lives. Neither the officer or the bystander were necessarily in the wrong.
dogfavoriter
Picking up the weapon shouldn't be a death sentence. The other cops were out to kill the person who shot one of their own.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
1) Ordinarily I tend to criticize cops rather than defend them, but in this case, I think they made a defensible call. If you know an...
JohnnyLawlessEsq
2) officer is down, and you roll up on the scene and see someone carrying a black rifle, there is no opportunity whatsoever to ask...
JohnnyLawlessEsq
3) questions. Your only opportunity to deal with a shooter with an AR is to shoot first. There was just no good reason for him to pick up...
JohnnyLawlessEsq
4) the AR. What could he have thought he was doing with it? What happened to him *was* a tragedy, but he could easily have avoided it.
heckingoodboi56
Officers were out to kill. Full stop.
trustworthyfart
They didn’t know he wasn’t the shooter. I think you would agree if that was actually the shooter the cops would have been in the right.
thegator84
No, unless he pointed the gun at them they should take cover and give him the option to surrender
trustworthyfart
He already killed a police officer. We have enough dead by mass muderers in this country. They could save several life’s by ending it quick.
BootsNCatsNBootsNCatsN
Well what other chance do they get to kill people? I mean that's what they signed up for.
dogfavoriter
If they had found the shooter with his hands on his head and the rifle on the ground twenty feet away they still would've killed him.
DonutThief
Absolutely agreed
backrideup9
Depends. Was he white?
runOMG
Tell that to the Buffalo shooter who did the same thing and was taken into custody two days ago
Arock77
You shouldn't, I'd hope wouldn't. Kick it away from them if they're wounded, stand over it if you're concerned about bystanders, but don't 1
LupusLilium
Dude probably knew the 'ensure shooter can't grab weapon if only injured', but didn't connect the idea of kicking it away. -Unless- the guy
LupusLilium
had the rifle strapped to him, in which case I can actually see someone trying to disarm the suspect by unstrapping it and the cops picked
LupusLilium
that moment to arrive and only saw the guy holding the rifle after having removed it from the suspect.
TheBishopofBanterbury
Drop your own weapons and hold your arms up or get on the ground. Let the cops clear you. Or run the fuck away and be nowhere near the scene
livingonagiantfireball
I fear that sometimes even people with the best intentions may not make the best decisions and adrenaline may have cause mistake.
Kamica
Yea, I mean, the guy just *shot a dude* after having witnessed someone being shot! It's not really easiest to think things through then...
aloysiuscentauri
It is truly an altered state. This guy made a bad decision, but I am not surprised.
Arock77
2 pick it up, ever. Besides this shit happening, that's evidence. Technically if you're involved in a defense shooting the training 2
PoppinLochNessHopster
Weirdly in the home invasion that happened to me the dude was wearing some shitty leather gloves, we managed to get the gun from him->
PoppinLochNessHopster
I imagine our prints were all over it, if they even checked, they never doubted for a second it was his gun.
LANAAAAAAAAAA
How did you get his gun?
Arock77
3 wants you to retreat to cover, keep an eye on the threat on the ground, and wait for police. And drop your fucking weapon when they show.
Prometheusblu
If he thought there was another shooter with an AR having your own might not be a bad idea. I wouldn’t have grab it but ??♂️
Regularsizerudy
Do they teach this stuff when u buy a gun? Since protection is the primary reason given 4 ownership shouldn’t this be common knowledge
ICantThinkOfAUsernameWhilePooping
Of course not. And they don't teach police how to respond to a scene where everybody has a gun either. I guess it'll just work itself out.
FallenJester
FallenJester
You fill out a form, get a copy, and they make a phone call. It's a simple transaction
IAmTheBadW01f
Depends on where you buy it. Blue State? Mandatory training and test on it. Red State? You get the gun and a bottle of whisky and you're off
Arkenov
This is exactly what most non republicans want for america but the gop fights against. Few want to take away guns, we want actual licenses
Regularsizerudy
Forgot /S
NCPBullet
They teach this stuff if you take a course which I recommend any gun owner take the course
Arock77
I'm going to answer on the assumption that you're genuinely asking, because there are a lot of people commenting in this post who either 1
NeoBaggins
Render it safe. Drop mag, empty chamber, possibly pop the takedown pins and separate the upper and lower.
MadeYouLookAgain
Or you could like, just kick it away. If you’re doing all that you should probably oil the bolt carrier and clean the barrel
NeoBaggins
Kicking it away could cause a misfire under many circumstances. If there is a firearm in play, you want control over it.
Arock77
Not this, keep your hands off it.
EngorgedPhallus
It's not a fucking movie, kick it away and don't have a gun out when the cops arrive. Jesus.
backrideup9
Do none of that. Stay the fuck away from it, b/c, if anyone is paying attention, cops kill cop killers on sight. They also kill randoms.
TeflonTrout
He rendered it safe by removing the least safe part. The cops should know how to safe and clear, keep an eye on it but no touchy
NeoBaggins
Many people have died from assuming a threat was over and not taking proper precautions. Kicking it away or ‘keeping an eye on it’ might>
NeoBaggins
not be viable options if the perp still has a grip on it. Even if it looks like a death grip. Going in and gaining control over the muzzle>
NeoBaggins
of the firearm and then rendering it so it can’t fire is standard, no matter what your local fudd might have told you.
Arock77
Dagordae
What, you think the gun is going to possess someone to fire it? Rendering it safe is as easy as not touching it and making sure the shooter
NeoBaggins
That’s a good way to get shot by assuming the incident is over. It’s not over until you’ve given your statement.
Masonrig
You don't know what modifications have been made to the gun, so no, that isn't safe. Also dead people twitch.
Dagordae
Doesn’t move. And shooting them if they do. Fondling the evidence is the LAST thing you should do.
schlockchurch
Should be exactly this, as it shouldn't be left "active" in case anyone else wants to pick it up and try. Too bad all cops are bastards.
Dagordae
All cops are bastards yet you should plan for spontaneous mass shootings from unarmed passerbys? What a strange world you live in, where
schlockchurch
Guns are cost prohibitive, firstly. 2nd it doesn't have to be that some might rampage they could just hurt themselves or others on accident.
Dagordae
A firearm existing draws in people to go on rampages. You’d think someone who wants to rampage would have their own gun, this IS America
Dagordae
After all. Not exactly hard to come by.
NeoBaggins
Right? All these ‘experts’ (which I am by no means claiming to be one) but I do know the danger of prematurely assuming a threat is over.
NeoBaggins
Granted, if the cops come in blazing, you might be screwed either way. My point on that end would be, what if the defender was armed with>
NeoBaggins
an AR rifle or pistol from his truck or a bag? I feel like the situation would’ve played out the same in that case even if>
schlockchurch
Sometimes people feel all it takes to be an expert in a given situation is to have an intense hatred for the thing ?
NERDRAGEohacat
I get that you're trying to justify why someone would pick up the firearm, but people aren't trying to be "experts" by pointing out 1/2
schlockchurch
It's weird how you guys seem to miss the part where it was asked *why* you would do that. This is often training in gun classes. It's why.
NERDRAGEohacat
literally what happened if a cop catches you with said firearm in hand. Hell, cops have shot for less and gotten away with it. 2/2