Bountyhunterfromhell
86321
1573
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine
Dec 23, 2023 6:44 PM
Bountyhunterfromhell
86321
1573
120
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine
CJFoxx11
Yes. We have seen this before with milk. The largest producers have the most clout in advertising. They still push flavored milk in schools because, ‘any milk is better than none.’
huffnpuff72
‘Influencers’ are a blight on our society. Most of them are greedy and just dumb enough not to realise they are just corporate shills.
mediumrarechickenstrips
pjm82
I'll admit I didn't stop eating beef for ethical reasons, or for environmental reasons. It's just too damn expensive
Bojovnik84
While I get it, I'm more worried about the damage billionaires and coke/Pepsi are doing before I care about meat.
TheLookAndFeelMUSIC
Looks like they succeeded with you.
Jindujun
Sounds like vegan propaganda to me
PeteyVonWho
Don't care. Beef good. Soy not good.
bububub2
Yeah a lot of them are on imgur shitting on vegans
WeNowGoToDanWithTheWeather
Found... the Vegan?
bububub2
Nope.
sevenfingerman
I can not wait until cultured meat becomes main stream
Thornaxe
I’m not certain it will ever be. Turns out that making a factory to mimic an animals digestive system, waste filtration system and immune system ends up being very expensive in an energy sense. Nature has had millions of years to get as efficient as it has. It’s utter hubris to assume man can surpass this easily.
Energytwo
I'll never be a vegetarian/vegan no matter what either of you say.
Bystandr
Of course, but we also need in the meantime to setup ALTERNATIVE food production that people agree to eat. We cant just stop tomorrow.
Bystandr
If you want to worry about farting cows, too, we should also be maybe concentrating on not cutting down more of the Amazon, and turning off
Bystandr
coal fired plants and moving people over from gas to electric vehicles because those sources outstrip those emissions by 3 orders of
Bystandr
magnitude and more.
StephenDaniels
Is it the same people who sold us the BS about smoking or did they all die of cancer?
vandude9090
Lol. There are much bigger things to piss and moan about.
andtheniatethebowl
Is it cool if I raise my own beef? I hope that isn't as bad for the environment
Addmagnet
I understand the issues around how producing meat is more 'environmentally costly', but how much more processed are vegeburgers etc and ...
Addmagnet
... how does that sit with the medical/health advice about not eating processed/ultra-processed foods? Heads they win, tails we lose.
BrdCdn
The real answer is just cutting the amount of meat we eat waaay back. Still enjoy it as a treat or in small portions but solve 90% of the problem.
sirdouglasbuttersworth
As with all diets, limiting processed foods is the way to go, for health and for the environment. With veganism that means mostly plants in their plant form and less meat-substitute-packaged-items. I don't think anyone is advocating for the standard American diet just with processed substitute foods for meat and dairy
Thornaxe
I worry about this too. Synthetic meat and cheese have to be the most ultra processed concoctions humans have ever created. Give it 25 years and I worry they’ll be in the same category as partially hydrogenated oils and trans fats.
jsims281
There are also massive amounts of ultra processed meaty foods - I don't think that's an issue with meat free stuff in particular, it's across the board with any cheap food that gets made in factories. It's not that hard to cut out meat and still avoid ultra processed food.
Ree81
Musk (who still has a LOT of followers) just said something about this 2 days ago. "You don't have to worry about cows". Another message was "Don't worry about fossil fuel use in the short term, only long term"..... another opinion was "The environmental movement has gone too far", and he blamed the ENTIRE movement of being anti-human.
ViridisEyoh
The problem is the huge industries and those cattle farms that don't take care of the animals. My whole issue with this antimeat movement is that they're not tatgeting companies like that. instead, they're targeting the smaller farms who are doing it right and claiming they're doing just as much damage as the huge cow mills.
Ree81
And with platforms like Twitter, how do you even combat it? You can't remove posts, regardless of how much they lie, and they're mostly the majority OF all posts...
meowingintensifies
Agree, 100%. Cattle is a food source, period. The antimeat industry paints this as black and white, where there's a LOT of gray and nuance.
KnowGoYesStopWin
There’s no right way to do the wrong thing. We do not *need* to consume animals to survive. 80% of our crop’s going to feed the livestock is also highly inefficient(that % wouldn’t change even if they were free range)
ViridisEyoh
No. Just no. Meat is actually a fundamental part of our diet and the crops we produce aren't even the kimd humans need to survive and stuff like grain and wheat aren't great for us. Look at how many supplements people have to be on when trying to cut out meat entirely. There is absolutely a correct way to do a correct thing.
Lashiel87
Except that ignores the negative consequences globally caused by veganism and to a lesser degree vegetarianism. One example of which is that humans require protein and others factors typically gained from meat, as we are omnivores. While there are plants that can provide those they aren't native to the regions that need them most leading to domination of staple crops in other countries and a rise in price such that locals can no longer afford the very food they grow, and starvation is a thing.
Lashiel87
That being said. Balance is possible and a gross reduction of meat consumption is needed as we eat waaay more meat than we actually require.
BrdCdn
This. Just cutting down the amount of meat we eat solves 90% of the problem. Can't let perfection be the enemy of good.
pr3viso
The beef industry doesn't have to worry about me, I can't afford beef anyway
thecanadianwhoatethemoose
Yeah that's great, it's still not going to change my opinion about eating steak. Also blaming consumer choices instead of targeting Industries and government for not putting a greater emphasis on sustainability is going to lead to meaningless change.
TheLookAndFeelMUSIC
It'd be pretty awesome meaningless change if we all made the consumer choice to eat way less meat. Less methane in the atmosphere, less land clearing for their pastures and feed, rehabitation of fodder cropland to carbon sequestering ecosystems, less animal slaughter/abuse etc etc.
mikefromcalgary
Why are they still being referred to as influencers? They are manipulators.
freshthrowaway1138
Same reason we call it advertising rather than propaganda.
ChristopherHallett
Oh hey there! You know concrete? That grey stuff that starts out liquid then sets hard? Please, PLEASE do not do any research into how environmentally damaging it is!
ananfro
I mean, y’all can afford meat? That shit is expensive. I’ve gone mostly vegan because it’s what i can afford
Comet260
I go with ground turkey.
r0twhylr
Where I am, you can get a pound of fresh spinach (about $6) for a little more than a pound of hamburger (about $4-5).
freshthrowaway1138
How many calories in spinach vs hamburger? I could also buy a pound of tomatoes for less than a burger, but I'd end up starving.
ananfro
I can buy a 15 pound bag of dry beans for $25. And that gets me a lot of meals.
r0twhylr
Yep, beans and rice are relatively inexpensive and will take care of a lot of your needs, but a well-balanced plant based diet isn't always cheap.
StarmineRendezvous
I for one cannot wait till we have more sustainable and less harmful lab grown meat as the norm paired with well developed food printers. 1/
YangKoete
Or, you know, try other recipes and ingredients that already exist?
StarmineRendezvous
Could eat the absolute BEST meats you could ever ask for on a whim eventually, with no morality issues whatsoever as animals won't die. /2
StarmineRendezvous
Oh, I should also add that it takes away power from right wing rural areas, at least in the US, so that is always a bonus as well. /3
Arphalas
Lets be quiet about the ecological impact of vegans and their meat alternatives instead. Fuck it. I’d rather have steak.
2074red2074
Vegans and meat alternatives aren't nearly as bad for the environment. And no, almonds don't really use an abnormally high amount of water, that's a myth.
BeesechurgerProductions
Only if you ignore the fact that a huge swath of the planets needed for meat alternative nutrition can only be grown in certain parts of the world. That kind of inherent imbalance in the food logistics structure would cause untold amounts of strife, lots of which would impact the environment far more directly.
Gaelwyn
Which plants specifically are problematic? I am really curious as I try to avoid buying food that is bad for the environment.
jsims281
Is that a bit like how they grow alfalfa in the desert in California, and then export it to China as pig food?
TheLookAndFeelMUSIC
Good to see you care so much about the impact of your food choices. Meat alternatives are mostly soy. 7% of the worlds total soybean production goes to food for humans, whether 77% goes to livestock feed. I'll leave the choice up to you.
2074red2074
Most meat alternatives are soy-based. Yeah some people use shit like jackfruit and I have no idea what the hell is in Impossible Meat, but a typical veggie burger is just soy with some flavorings.
Gaelwyn
Pea protein is common in the non soy options, or just beans and various vegetables.
taez555
Are you telling me all those TikTok cooks I watch all the time that keep plugging brands are possibly plants?
YangKoete
"possibly". Even on imgur there's plenty. If they name a brand, it's likely a plant.
taez555
You mean like the very first top post right now that mentions Pizza Hut and Mountain Dew? :-)
YangKoete
EXACTLY.
trippingthelightfantastic
KnowGoYesStopWin
Rule29
This great but still puts the blame of climate change on individuals while the real culprits are the 100 companies responsible for the vast majority of greenhouse gasses
TheJuiceLoosener
I'm 100% fine with vegans and vegetarians, and there's no doubt that it's a healthier dietary choice for the individual and better for society. Also, fuck the beef industry. But also, don't get too enamored with methane reduction as a solution for climate change. Interview with a (legit) climate change scientist at Oxford: https://thebulletin.org/2023/12/mass-delusion-and-wishful-thinking-why-everything-you-think-you-know-about-methane-is-probably-wrong/
TheJuiceLoosener
Tl,dr: Methane degrades on its own, CO2 does not. While increased generation of methane does cause some warming, the global climate emergency we're having is due to the accumulation of durable greenhouse gasses, i.e., CO2.
basiccricket8444
It needs to be part of the overall plan for the next 20 years. Also he's a physicist not a climate scientist.
TheJuiceLoosener
No, it doesn't. It's a waste of time and effort, two things we cannot afford to waste. It's a distraction from the real task - decarbonization. Methane is not reflective of the true nature of the climate crisis. The problem isn't warming, it's permanent, irreversible warming. Also, physics is a climate science.
basiccricket8444
Physics is a science but is not climate science, and you can do both. There's no point in not reducing methane. Also yes, methane degrades but it is still very potent. Since our time schedule to reduce warming is measured in decades, it is a good idea to tackle methane. He even says so in the article.
Thornaxe
Yup. The numbers toured by the anti beef groups all originated in one horribly flawed UN report that was retracted and even apologized for by its creator. IIRC he completely whiffed on methane degradation. But the report was out there and the damage was done. Same way as vaccines and autism.
trippingthelightfantastic
Thanks for this.
Clockworkdancerobot
Meanwhile, the Beef industry is killing America and farmers. Beau of the Fifth Column https://youtu.be/BeQIBde5_4I
facemcsh00ty
Always upvote Beau. We need much more Beau.
lapus
America is killing America
Clockworkdancerobot
When beef is in so high demand, commands huge prices, and farmers are going broke? Something is very very wrong.
Pelican3
They can sell to fewer people who can afford the higher prices while reducing production costs enough to actually increase profits. Capitalism doesn't exist to feed people it exists to fleece them.
NaughtButOne
This has been most companies' takeaway from the last 3 years. They truly gave us too much credit, and thought we wouldn't pay through the nose if they increased prices.
The701
Well we can't go doing crazy things like letting workers hang onto the value of their labor.....
Einbrecher
Part of the issue is that the problem has been exacerbated to such a degree that people don't themselves have the money to pay others what their labor is worth. You could say "buy local," but I just split a cow from a local co-op with my BIL, and it still averaged out to ~$6.00 /lb. When ground beef at Wal-mart is $4.25 /lb., and folks can't even afford that, there's not much they can do to change it.
Clockworkdancerobot
Sounds like govt needs to set up a wholesale network that pays people for their labor, and distributes food to those in need. If the private sector won't compete...
Thornaxe
Packers have fucked us farmers for decades. They’re integrated enough they don’t have to pay up. And they’ve discovered any disruption to their systems (like a fire at a massive facility) actually BOOSTS overall profits because it limits throughput, allowing price spikes in meat and a glut of unprocessed beef(driving down the cost of their raw materials). The free market can work, but not when there’s too few players. And we’re long past that point.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
As someone who's seen it first hand, really no ideas on a way forward?
Thornaxe
Covid saw a boost in interest in small scale meat processors. But that’s a lot of money to put out. Maybe some federal loans to help existing small town meat cutters get a bit bigger or new guys get started. A lot of these facilities are booked out a year or more.
ifounditunderthere
The industry is already seeing the start of a major shift, because baby boomers vs younger generations, and their views on red meat
KnowGoYesStopWin
It’s highly unethical and it’s killing the planet. The younger generations are 100% right about this one.
slinkydust
Incorporating seaweed into cow diet reduced their methane gas by something like 80%
ThrowAwayAcct0000
I'd love to know more. Source?
Bountyhunterfromhell
ifounditunderthere
.... it's not for the reason you list...
junkgoof
The health aspects seem pretty clear. I’d pretty much eliminate red meat if my daughter weren’t addicted.
PostMoThoin
Nobody ever mentions the environmental impact of body builders eating twice the calories
junkgoof
No one thinks this is funny?
HelpfulCorn
The 73% of Americans who have eaten their way to overweight or obese are probably a more significant impact
D1vadrag0n
I can assure you that there are more than enough kids in the 3-11 age group who are functionally air plants and they offset the body builders' excess calories lol
DoseOfScience
Pretty sure they're a small subset.
SgtDefaultGN
Yeah that’s like chasing classic cars for emissions reduction. Not super duper worth it.
PostMoThoin
I mean it's still unethical
KinetoPlay
It isn't though. As a society we throw away literal tons of food. No one is going hungry because some gym bro ate a big dinner. More than enough food exists for everyone, it's just not distributed properly because that would cut into corporate profits. If anything, that super eater is actually helping because at least anything they eat isn't thrown in the garbage.
DoseOfScience
Most of them also mostly eat chicken I believe, as grilled/boiled chicken breast is supposed to be "the best". There are grandfather issues, similar to what happened when Mexico City tried their shit. I honestly think that simple economic forces work just fine compared to the industrial end where the business majors give zero shits.
tylerPumpkinTraveler
This “starting shift” happened with dairy and is why tons of people think soy milk is terrible to this day—because soy milk was the first alternative milk to go against dairy when it was still *huge*.
Sensiblyinteresting
Soy Milk is pretty gross. Now Cashew or Almond milk I'm all about.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Rice milk is my favorite.
bahamutepyon
Oat milk makes for a pretty good coffee creamer alternative to.
Sensiblyinteresting
I love using the non sweetened vanilla for cereal. Accidentally added it to Mac & cheese once and it was horrible lol
BlueDsc
I switched to almond milk because of calorie intake reasons and I was pleasantly surprised at how much tastier it is than regular milk.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Isn't almond milk (probably cashew as well) like really bad for the environment? The amount of fresh water almond plantations use per square km is staggering. I should go look it up but someone will correct me or affirm me.
KnowGoYesStopWin
Almond milk uses the most water of any plant milk, but still only uses HALF the water for what is need for a a glass of cows milk. Oat milk is the ‘greenest’
Sensiblyinteresting
It's significantly less than what cows require and leave, carbon foot front wise.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
But... I just drink water.
KnowGoYesStopWin
A lot of idiots think soy has mammalian estrogen in it that will affect their bodies/hormones, when it actually has *phytoestrogens which only affect plants.
Strategicgnomer
It can act as a hormone in humans, at least, according to a meta analysis by the NIH. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6390141/#:~:text=Consumption%20of%20phytoestrogens%20derived%20from,(CRP)%20%5B15%5D.
Gaelwyn
A lot of people are also either allergic or sensitive to soy and try to avoid eating it. Personally, it makes my neck swell up and it looks like I have a fucking spare tire around my neck. Awesome that it's added to nearly everything. Almond milk and oat milk are what I usually drink.
tylerPumpkinTraveler
I wouldn’t call them idiots. I would say Dairy ran a VERY effective smear campaign against soy.
peterbozeman
I want eating bugs to be normalized
swagb98623
Lion king already tried it
Mikehippop
SmartAverageBear
Ah, it's only a promotional thing
HeyOP
You can get similar if you're willing to shop online. "Cricket bars" should bring up something.
PrincessWendyB
I'd prefer rabbits, but I'm old.
cbale2000
"Live in the pod, eat the bugs. You will own nothing and you will be happy"
Ree81
I somehow doubt it's necessary to 'go that far'. It's a tough sell nonetheless.
HalstenTorqThorkelson
I'm only eating the bugs if the rich are. If they're still eating beef, then fuck that.
Dontletthebedbugsbite2
I keep trying insect foods, thinking 'this time it's not going to taste like a bug.' But it always tastes like bugs. It just tastes dirty.
Slickdoodle
Calm down Renfield.
leodavinci1
Does shrimp, lobster, crab, and other similar seafood count? It should.
hyperchondriac
Fuck that. Eat them if you want, I will be 100% vegetarian or even vegan before I eat bugs. I would consider for short term survival only, if that was my whole future I would find a nice quiet place to end it.
LarvaLamp
I've had so many pets throughout my life that ate crickets and mealworms that at this point I just see them as food anyway.
indigoaya9
Then start eating bugs, Peter.
slinkydust
There is Chirps brand but they're pricey
Ninjainslippers
I wasn't really a fan of a taco I had with chapulines (grasshoppers) just because of the texture and you get legs and exoskeleton stuck in your teeth which is an odd sensation. Cricket flour is good though.
HaveYouHuggedYourUndertakerToday
Fkn chapulines are fantastic, and I love them, BUT I agree that they are not for everyone. They soften up a lot to where the shell and legs don't get stuck in your teeth when you add a lot of salsa.
TheFakeCraigFerguson
Like, man, I get that this is a push we need so badly, but just hearing that grossed me out on multiple levels. I imagine it's like eating a shrimp tail, which grosses me out and gives me heebie jeebies. My mouth is not okay with such sensations. Flour sounds like it would be fine though. Texture is just so important with food. Flavor too obviously but
hellsgunslinger
It is in some countries
cbale2000
Mostly due to the poor food quality in those countries. Bugs are a lot more appealing when starvation is the alternative.
HaveYouHuggedYourUndertakerToday
Insects are often cultural or ancestral foods. I'm indigenous. We have eaten crickets for thousands of years even when venison, snake, rabbit, squirrel, bison, fish, shellfish, and fowl have also been available for that time. Same can be said all around the world, regardless of "food quality".
peterbozeman
True. That's a good start.
HeyOP
1) There are downsides. "Each year in the U.S., it is estimated that anaphylaxis to food results in 30,000 emergency room visits,
skarreslave350
In a country of 300 million people those are not big numbers.
HeyOP
1) Most eat pretty much the same things with relatively little variety. A large dietary protein market shift to insects will change that.
HeyOP
2) These are fairly preventable instances of illness and death, and we're doing more to prevent them than ever. Yet, rates are increasing.
HeyOP
3) Not just in the US but also in the US. I'm all for more protein sources, I've eaten bugs, but it's important to remember there are risks.
StephenDaniels
The sithish bad guy from Ahsoka died that way. I don't think bugs were the culprit though.
HeyOP
Ray Stevenson. Anaphylaxis reports unconfirmed so far, but yeah could be. Live to 58, get killed by authentic Italian food. Sucks.
HeyOP
2) "2,000 hospitalizations, and 150 deaths." Throw more insects into the mix and a lot more people are going to find out the hard way that
HeyOP
3) they have a dietary allergy. (I say "more insects" because there's already a niche market in the US.)
TheFakeCraigFerguson
There was a discussion on imgur I came across about roaches and shellfish allergies. I'm allergic to cockroaches. I only know this from an allergy test I had done. I reacted to roaches even more than I did to grass. I just am really, personally, not ready for bugs. I'm glad gen Z is doing better than me.
HeyOP
Food allergy instances/diagnoses have been rising for years. Might be increased awareness, maybe. Or, maybe not. They might be doing worse.
SuperfluousMeh
I've always wanted to try roasted crickets, myself.
Rogahar
Ngl when I saw some documentary guy trying (iirc) honey-dipped crickets I did kinda wanna try one too lol
SuperfluousMeh
That makes me wonder if they taste a little like what they eat and if you can alter that by what you feed them, kinda the way wild game supposedly does.
HalstenTorqThorkelson
I tried a bunch of different fried bugs in Thailand. Tasted like the spices it was cooked in, but the texture was like stale chips. Wouldn't try again. Rats tasted a lot better than bugs.
HeyOP
What's stopping you? https://www.amazon.com/Whole-Roasted-Crickets-Canadian-Raised/dp/B07DWDFV4M/ (other roasted crickets brands available)
SuperfluousMeh
I'm a bit of a chicken, buck buck
HeyOP
1) Fair enough. Not sure if it would be worse or better, but you could raise your own mealworms and make 'em taste like pretty much whatever
SuperfluousMeh
I had thought of incorporating insects into larger permaculture once I was able to get some property, but I hadn't thought about mealworms.
HeyOP
2) you can get them to eat. Live, quaker oats fed mealworm tasted, unsurprisingly, of plain oats. As a for instance. Seems cornmeal is a
Zedrapazia
I tried it and hated it. No thanks for me, it was bitter
SuperfluousMeh
I'm worried it'll be too much like soft shelled crab, which I do not like, or have not had well prepared, but kinda still don't like.
Zedrapazia
I like crabs, shrimp and lobsters of all kinds, those aren't an issue to me.
However, since our land insects are so tiny, they're mostly just crunch and no meat, very dry and as I said, tasting bitter.
SuperfluousMeh
I'm reminded of when Andrew Zimmern went to Cambodia, he tried tarantulas and he said something very similar, that they were kind of bitter. It must be the guts.
Zedrapazia
I'm not a pro, but I've been told it's the exoskeleton. You can't really shell out such a small animal tho.