Jaspering
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Apr 2, 2018 10:32 AM
Jaspering
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zombiejedediah
Stop voting for idiots. +1
bjorklund
Yes, agreed. Keep the liberals and Dems out of office.
wallyworld83
A women in her late 50s tried to tell my wife that the cost of education has not become more expensive now compared the 1970s.
ChallengerDeep
Education has doubled and more: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76 - see "Constant Dollars"
ChallengerDeep
I'm really proud of my schools and degrees, but stopped giving to one alma mater after I saw what tuition has become, relative to mine.
spectheintro
I hope your wife drop-kicked her. I mean that literally; I hope some part of your wife's foot connected with her frail, entitled body.
burnseybuzz
Did she live under a rock?
andthentheresmaude
Maybe she’s doing Learning-for leisure.
GreenBloodedPointyEaredBastard
Is her name DeVoss?
WacknCheese
Im thinking she never actually availed herself of the 70's educational experience she was quoting figures on.
Averylazyturtle
Is her name Rita Rded?
JakalSwitch
Did you bitch-slap her?
G3ologist
I'd punch her in the throat.
Gorlor
Hippies
CrimeThinker
Maybe she meant both then and now you can just pay 0 and become uneducated like her.
Altanese
BobarinoTheBobcat
stratus41298
This post is so old it can legally drink.
CorgiMagnet
But it can't afford to.
FurToaster
Yet it is still valid
darkninja2992
And yet it still rings so damn true
Semiflaccid
Problem is it's all still true. Maybe even more so now, especially with the mighty Cheeto in office.
SurfHill
It is 3 years old, so it can only legally drink if you count age in dog years.
stratus41298
In meme years it's 46.
HighlyRatedBarcodeExterminator
didn't get any less true tho.. more if anything
Andalite
Your response is not only old, it's so wrong, I mistook it for the President.
BrianTheNomad
That was impressive
chromed
Ohhh snap.
stratus41298
TheMythicalJackalope
Fishamil
What the hell does that have to do with the content and it’s message?
Placentaur
You'd think that'd make it out of date and discredited but it's still so accurate..
FlabbergastedLoaderbot
But can't afford to.
JusttSummGuy
A drunk seven year old?
iraqwarvet31
I haven't seen it. Glad do did
jjc101
Doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
seacaptain7231415
Its still true though. And worse now than it was
TheGiggityGuy
JohnnyLawlessEsq
I’m just wondering where they got that stock photo.
izoli413365
The avg home might cost $440k in like LA or NYC. Totally not nationwide avg though.
getridofTheSeaword
You’re right, the average home price is $189,000. Up from $7,354 in 1950, adjusted for inflation it was $44,600 in today’s money.
izoli413365
I think thats the median of prices homes sold in whatever year, most ppl with cheap homes dont sell them often.
getridofTheSeaword
According to what information?
izoli413365
Well its not too far off from what only new homes for sale go for on ce">sus.gov">census.gov, realtor.com shows 188k median sale price of homes.
getridofTheSeaword
So you’re saying what I said about median home cost is accurate, but you have no information for what you said about people selling cheaper1
quixotegut
But for MY generation, all that, AND we were told that it was still possible... you knew what you were in for... we had the rug pulled out.
kojenk
I have exactly 2 hours of free time each work day before I need to sleep due to traffic. Life is like...
TheBurritoConfederacy
There is no happiness. Only marketing lies.
justafloridaman
I know the feeling, 70+ hours a week is rough.
SeeHowItGoes
Oh my goodness, that is very worrying to hear. Is there anything you can change about this? I hope you're doing ok.
voxtones
As an older guy(56)I have to agree with this. We had it easier. We know it’s hard for you. So quit walking around like you rent the place.
thiscommentwillselfdestruct
I don't know whether to laugh or cry
PunjabiMacgyver
hahahahahaa
FoolMeChickenSoupWithRice
Fuckingold.jpg
derburger
What the fuck houses are you looking at that are 440k. Lower your expectations or move further from the city.
meeewww
or move to a less expensive city. 440k is fucked
HibiscuitsTea
This post neglects all the struggles and sacrifices the generations before us made.
kong210
I am sick of people my age comparing us to our parents, our parents didn't have the same possibilities and experiences we do..
oddmog
A listless feeling that we will never be able to get the basics. There's new tech floating around but you can't shake that dread.
bansheehalo
It's probably because of those damn phones
throwawaynoms
Fun fact, tuition cost are the results of 90s democrats pushing for a greater prevalence of loans for minorities to afford college 1/2
throwawaynoms
2/2 causing colleges to essentially view it as a blank check since practically everyone will be given student loans from a bottomless wallet
getridofTheSeaword
Gonna need a source on that.
throwawaynoms
Biased source to guided you http://redalertpolitics.com/2016/05/04/hate-student-loans-thank-bill-clinton-hillary-wants-repeat-mistakes/
getridofTheSeaword
An admittedly biased source? Why would you even post that unless it’s because you had nothing reputable? So you don’t have a source then.
throwawaynoms
Because I was alive then and remembered it, and didn't feel like googling it for you. Do your own research or don't, idgaf.
somanywonders987
My college has had two raises in tuition since 2016. They've also defunded grants for students with mental illness. We're scared, out here.
MothMonsterMan
I would bet my bottom dollar that your college has had a tuition increase every year for over 20 years
dale3887
Mine goes up 2.8% every year. Equates to 1k for out of state students every year. Started at 42k per ear will end at 46k roughly
Carabiner96
My school raises its tuition a couple grand every year
somanywonders987
Yep. I can almost guarantee it's for sports scholarships or for the department heads to raise their pay.
Thneitis
My college cut tuition by 20% move to Washington
somanywonders987
Will you house me
Thneitis
Haha just don’t move too seattle and it’s cheap. I lived 10 min out side of Spokane and paid 750 for a 2bd 1b with a garage and yard.
somanywonders987
Bruh $20 a lifetime is out of my budget right now
minizeries
My tuition increased by 75% between my first semester and my last. My scholarships were for a fixed dollar amount. Whee.
doesit
My University not only raised tuition, but had the nerve to raise parking prices double during my fouryears there,and got rid of free prking
MrSnowy
My college hasn't raised tuition in 6 years. In state, it's just over 13k. Fantastic.
MothMonsterMan
I went in 2010 and again now, over that time tuition has increased at mine by 30%
nullpotato
My first year and last semester had the same tuition cost. And that was a state college.
Seam0nk3y
Mine raises it 1-2% a year but it's already at like 55k a year since they pay teachers tenure for teaching rather than research
mrweekend
Our flagship university here in Illinois has had 5 tuition increases in the last 7-8 yrs while cutting lots of grants/scholarships
M0rgue
So much money goes to athletics instead of academics.my college also just payed $650,000 for Nick Jonas to perform. Meanwhile, buildings 1
allegedlynerdy
The college probably didn't pay, probably a student organisation out of its own funds.
M0rgue
Are crumbling, we had to drop half our foreign languages, and arts and sciences department cant afford phones
somanywonders987
Yep same here. Tuition going up and a graduation rate of 49% but all that money they're taking in is going straight to fund the footballers.
deamonsatwar
Because that's where there money is coming from. Those games make a good chunk of money.
M0rgue
It might be different for other unis but the football at mine is its own separate business entity. None of the money earned goes to educatio
waitwasthatreal
A lot of athletics at college are already money makers, or the college is trying to get them more profitable.
mrweekend
But that money comes from tv deals and boosters, not the schools general funds
waitwasthatreal
Exactly. The big expensive athletic programs aren’t sucking money, they bring it in for the school.
mrweekend
At most large universities athletics are self sufficient
M0rgue
Ours operates as its own seperate business entity. None of the money received goes to the school but the school still puts money into it
mrweekend
They do. It depends on the school though. Went to LSU and they’re entirely self sufficient in athletics, including stadium expansion
Silas007
stuff like stadium are usually heavily subsidized by local government as well
skolvike
What college teaches "payed" instead of "paid"?
JustAnotherFurry
Finish your degree in europe. Lower rent and tuition pays the moving costs in less than a year, also food is cheaper over here. PM for Infos
NeoHelios
How about just moving to EU in general, ha ha. Student or not.
SomeonewhoknowsadognamedEVA
Majority of the time the European degree doesn't count for shit in the US
JustAnotherFurry
You tell me a BA. of Science doesn't count? Boy are you wrong. Also german trade degrees are highly sought after in the US ;)
SomeonewhoknowsadognamedEVA
Majority isn't all inclusive there sport. It would also be a Bachelor of Science BS not BAS.
JustAnotherFurry
BA. of Science or Ba. Sc. are commen in my country, seems to be local differences. What do you mean with not all inclusive?
deamonsatwar
It's ok. There will be a crash eventually then all the people making those rules won't have income either. I can hope.
Silas007
It is possible that somehow the powerless take over after a crash but usually the ones responsible make the rules and the poor pay up.
Lambpasty
My fear is it will crash like the housing market did: those responsible will suffer nothing while the middle class pays for it.
Doumdidoum
It doesn't always crash and regrow. Several countries just get stuck with bad policies and decay steadily until they are erm. Shitholes?
LincLoud
In my area, over the past 2 decades, nearly every college has raised tuition approximately 70%. Now colleges are starting to feel the ->
TitanicGaming360
I honestly would go to college, pay my tuition fees until I'm out of college, and they can foot the bill for whatever's left. Greedy shits.
LincLoud
pain as enrollment is drastically down. Some say its the govt's fault, others point fingers at greedy colleges, I don't care. They're all ->
LincLoud
getting rich off of those who want to use the same techniques their parents and grandparents tried for upward mobility; education. So ->
LincLoud
it's good to see them suffer a bit.
mrweekend
Couldn’t agree more
PaintedSlate
Most colleges aren't even for-profit, so you have to be a coach for a flagship to get rich there. Complex issue, with good and bad reasons.
PaintedSlate
If you factor out for-profits, it's a lot less bad but still a major issue. Then the matters of proportion-state-funded and mandated costs.
LincLoud
Oh I'm aware but that only makes things worse. Many colleges learned they could expand their wealth thanks to sports programs and do ->
squip
The outrageously bloated administration of universities is the reason for this skyrocketing tuition.
AlwaysUpvoteBrockIsARapist
Administration is a form of welfare in my opinion, hell look at how bloated it is in the government, health care, insurance agencies and
AlwaysUpvoteBrockIsARapist
1 the like, Hell one of the VA's in Pa could not afford to hire anymore doctors a few years back, but they added 6 admins making about 100k
AlwaysUpvoteBrockIsARapist
2 a year, funny the things you hear when you spend 20 hours a month someplace.
squip
Not sure I see it as welfare, here. It's an ever-expanding bureaucratic empire at universities. It's parasitic to the institution.
AlwaysUpvoteBrockIsARapist
At the end of the day, it is paying people for the sake of paying them, and when we are paying someone 50k a year and there is little to
AlwaysUpvoteBrockIsARapist
1 no value added for the time they have spent there, then it amounts to a form of welfare available to a favored few.
mofreckle
All I'm hearing is he has money to inherit. Which is more than me.
samsonguy920
With life expectancy these days? They'll long be collecting Social Security before inheritance becomes a possibility.
evilspock
Nah. They sank that profit into a new home. That they now pay insane property taxes on.
scnottaken
They then took out a reverse mortgage on said home to travel in their later years.
LeftHandPanda
I'm 33. Bought a house last year. I'm just keeping the head down, not buying stupid shit i can't afford. Very difficult to save though
kong210
Thank you! In the UK I have argued with peers about all the extra things we can spend our money on vs our parents!
spicebar
Every person/couple I know around my age who owns a house has received financial help from their parents to purchase it.
shabutie84
Right, but before that were you renting an apartment on your own? Or living with parents. Easy to buy a house when you live at home.
LeftHandPanda
Renting for five years. Rent kept going up and up. Got financial help off both of our parents to help get the house.
spicebar
Every. Single. Person. I know around my age who owns a house bought it with financial help from their parents.
LeftHandPanda
Very,very difficult to do it otherwise
CatnapperSakura
In the UK four of us got together to buy a three bedroom house. It's incredibly lucky that we all get along so well and we've had no 1/
CatnapperSakura
marital disputes, I don't think this is a situation many roomates could keep up for long when money is as tight as it is.
WeezyWee
But I want to go on 3 holidays a year to Magaluf and buy a brand new Golf!!
CliffWestern
Saving is easy but it requires that you have a healthy amount of funds not going to neccesities. Anyone can save if they have the $
livingonthemildside
Not true even saving a dollar or any amount every week adds up you don't have to have a huge chunk every paycheck to dedicate to savings
CliffWestern
get cheap furniture. Every article I read with tips sounds like a rich person thinking they just discovered second hand goods.
CliffWestern
Saving is what well to do people call tightening the belt. Poor people call it every other day. Believe me, poor people know how to 1
livingonthemildside
Yes we are paycheck to paycheck and with my husbands last raise instead of using it we have it direct deposited to a savings account
CliffWestern
That is disposable income. You may not be rich but you aren't broke if you have investments. I'm not broke now but I was. There was no way1
CliffWestern
Find me a rich person so frugal they re-use their trash bags. Thats broke. 8
CliffWestern
around poverty. 7
CliffWestern
saying these things aren't helpful to certain people but no, not everyone can save. That is an easy observation to make if you've been 6
CliffWestern
into this myth that rich people are rich simply because they "saved" and took second hand furniture or re-purposed their recycling. I'm not5
CliffWestern
Every tip I have ever seen on magazines about "being frugal" and "saving money" are things poor people do by default (and more). It feeds 4
CliffWestern
I can afford my necessities just fine which is what I said originally. You need to be covering your necessities before saving is possible.3
CliffWestern
I could have saved when I was barely covering food and rent and not always making that goal either. I can easily easily save now because 2
kittykat
What state are you in? Makes a big difference.
SirSidneyRuffDiamond
In answer to your question about what state they are in, Pissed I would expect at this time on Easter Monday, cheers ya paddy bastard
LeftHandPanda
I live in Ireland, everything is gonna very expensive here
effigyoma
"The secret to buying a house is living somewhere you don't want to"
malexmatt
Yeah, kind of.
bannyd
i live in New Jersey - purchased a house at 25 years old for $137,500 - taxes are $4500 on my 40x120 piece of land - god i hate this state
kittykat
are those dimensions in feet?!
bannyd
as an american engineer, unfortunately that dimension is using feet - i wish it were metric!
Winterboer
I feel this is very location specific. $440k for a three bedroom house is unheard of where I live. Maybe in San Diego?
hurrdurr69
Where I live that'd be about 6mil CAD
pvtpastapajamas
yep. i paid 135 in 2002. probably worth 160 now. 45 minutes east of Atlanta. 1600 sq ft roughly. still, it’s definitely harder now
Firevine
I live in a booming suburb SW of Atlanta. It's getting crazy here. Doable though on teacher pay and me in school.
FuckThatBitchThisIsRussia
It’s more specific to larger cities i think. I live in Denver and 440k gets you a studio lol
ThatDwarfWhoStealsYourOpinions
Don't buy downtown then, genius.
leabelle
Our 3br, 2 bath, on half an acre in Virginia was $40k. It's 100 yrs old but comfortable. We should have it paid off in 5 yrs.
SexyStarfish
$440 will get you a 2 bedroom place in San Diego in some areas. A single family will be 750k+ not near the coast.
seratraxalyn
A 3 bedroom house where I live is typically over $1.5 million dollars...in a not super desireable location, to boot.
ZtZebaztian
Where the FUCK do you live? Over here a 3 bedroom/2 bathroom is less than 200k.
seratraxalyn
Tokyo
seratraxalyn
Where do YOU live? :)
ZtZebaztian
Texas :P
zeldasdad
nppraxis
These posts come from people born & raised in coastal cities who are being priced out. They don't realize costs are reasonable elsewhere.
LtKifKroker
I hate when people use posts like these to reference as "all millennials". This is a problem, but a little research and willingness to 1/2
LtKifKroker
Be flexible can do as lot top improve the situation. Does it need to be fixed? Yes. Is it as bad as posts like this one say? No.
thoraxetheimpailer
I live in a small town of 3000 and our houses are 350-450k
thoraxetheimpailer
Not coastal
ladoys
What size cities are within 40 miles?
thoraxetheimpailer
90k 50 miles one way and 15k 100 the other way
nppraxis
Desirable area?
getridofTheSeaword
Look, costs are better, but not reasonable. I live in MO, my husband and I make over $100k, but with student loans, taxes, healthcare, 1
getridofTheSeaword
401k contributions, our take home is so much less. And yes, we have 15 yr old cars, a modest house, etc. everything is expensive no matter 2
getridofTheSeaword
Where you are, just less expensive in the middle of the country. 3
nppraxis
I agree with this. OP paints a bleak picture, and it's not nearly that bad elsewhere, but college & healthcare costs in the USA are absurd.
charlottadupont
Indiana has a lot of manufacturing jobs around $16 to start and housing is really affordable....but even I'm getting out after retirement
Ravenbreaker
I think a big problem is that growing up not enough people were told its okay to be in that field of work, people look down on it.
Ravenbreaker
I'm in Tool & Die myself, and its a shadow of its former self, but I think people look at it kind of like fast food.
Ravenbreaker
Like its something to be ashamed of, that they'd rather work in an office doing paperwork, or working with computers.
charlottadupont
It's frustrating, we can't get anyone who has any work ethic, it's unfortunate. They work two months then get fired for attendance or drugs
Ravenbreaker
No one really stays with companies long term anymore either. Pretty rare to meet anyone who has been there over 5 years
nppraxis
I can empathize on how hard it must feel- you want to stay with your family. But they don't realize they're expecting buy high-end housing.
DeusExSpockina
I want a two bedroom that needs a little TLC. If you’re lucky that’s 300k in the shady ass part of town in my city. High end is 700k to 1.5M
nppraxis
What city? Sounds coastal. Median US home price is $190k.
DeusExSpockina
Boston and surrounding region, so probably 30-40 towns and cities.
nppraxis
USA's median home cost is $188k. It's because they live in a desirable area with $400k homes. Unfortunately, all of California is desirable.
ukalliq
I can't imagine desiring to live in California, but to each her own.
nppraxis
California's actually really nice, but the income requirements would add too much stress for me. But if you grew up there it'd be different.
8bucktruck
Where do you want to live with the avg. home costs 440k? Really?
halfofyouaredumberthantherest
I have a 1k sqft townhomes in one of the worst neighborhoods in San Diego and it was 350k. All I could afford to remain here with family
CountessVonFingerbang
In the metro bubble of most major cities. Not IN the city, but about 45 min or longer commute from.
DigitalBang
Charlote NC, 5 bedroom ranch, 250k 25 minutes from City Center.
halfwindsor
35% of income on rent. Oh man, that would be so sweet
midnightbread
35% of your gross income is the standard. I'd be shocked if you were paying more than that and if you are something's wrong
JustinTroubleAgain
*cries in New York City-er*
Aingelproject667
Wait...are you saying that I'm SUPPOSED to have money left over after paying my monthly existence fees?
UilleannMann
That’s long gone. Just try not to work think about it
Thewayofthebear
I live in a small studio flat in what used to be a care home, I pay £550 rent a month and earn 1300. Plus bills, car, pension and savings
UilleannMann
Do you eat?
Thewayofthebear
I am sustained purely by misery. No I eat, but my weekly food budget is around £20-£25
StrangerRangerDanger
Savings? What is this "saaavings" you speak of?
Thewayofthebear
It’s where you put aside money each month for a rainy day, but end up dipping back into them each month in a soul destroying cycle of broke.
ShenanigainAndAgain
It's insane, around my area it'll cost you £700+ just rent for a one bedroom flat on rent! Gets more insane closer to London
TossacointoyourWitcherOvalleyofplenty
Try £1700 for a two bed flat. Urgh.
Thewayofthebear
Yep, I grew up in Surrey but moved to Suffolk as I couldn’t afford to live there anymore.
imneonian
Can verify. I'm paying 1550 for a one bed in London
MeetMeInSanJunipero
I love London but I could never move back. I pay £350 for a large 1 bed flat in Glasgow now. London is frustratingly expensive.
Thewayofthebear
That’s a pretty good deal, but what’s the wages like up there? Glasgow is a beautiful city.
TossacointoyourWitcherOvalleyofplenty
It’s disgusting isn’t it? Privacy and solitude are charged at a premium.
Timeandrelativedimensionsinspaghetti
I'm a white male 24 year old from an affluent family with every possible advantage, and I'm at 35%. God forbid you don't have these benefits
Laaub
I'm still exactly 50% and I consider myself pretty lucky.
UilleannMann
As well you should if you live somewhere nice
Laaub
What funny is that when I took a personal finance course, the instructor stated that you should never exceed 25% of pay for housing, 1/2
Laaub
Which feel impossible.
authoritech
Hahahahahahaha someone kill me.
authoritech
Because it's so true.
Abelthiar
If you live where someone may actually kill you, rent may go down to 35% at least, so long as it's a studio apartment with a shared bathroom
KWJester49
Is it where people are living that have high rent or jobs not paying a lot? Cause even with all utilities/expenses wife and I aren’t at 30%
mormacil
What about both of those?
hmrco92
I pay 33% on rent, and that's after I split it with my SO. I can't afford a trailer or studio apartment in this town alone.
Benegesseritwitch75
I'm forever grateful my ex mother in law sold me her rental house 15 yrs ago at the price she bought it.
UrinalPube
I made all the right decisions, and still pay 20% of my income to property tax alone, and that's with a 1 hour commute because I can't affor
baccci
When I used to rent last year I was earning £1,800- my rent was £1,600.
KidSisco7
I pay 51%. I can't afford a car. Take public transportation
Alexdgod
I don't understand where are you working and how much are you making to go about 50% income ratio. Even w/o roomies i barely go above 30%
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
That's actually the number they shoot for on new low-end apartments.
Cr1spyEvergr33n
Right, more like 65%. If my car broke down, I'd be fucked in half
theIdris
Right?
DaveC426913
30 years ago, mine was 50%.
imSupposedToBeWriting
I'm at 50%
imSupposedToBeWriting
Private university secretary in miami. 50% of my pay goes to rent. I get paid 13$/h
l009
More than 50% of my 18k goes to rent.
goldpotatoes
68% .... Damn... I wish I didn't do the math.
doggo
They've been feeding us that lie for a couple of generations. I'm a tail-end boomer born early 60s. By the time I moved out, no way 35%.
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
i'm currently using 80% of my income to rent, 35% is my dream
Zang1983
Where do you live, if I may ask? I spend about 15-20% of my monthly income on rent. I live in the centre of a city of about 300k ppl.
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
I'm living in Curitiba, Brazil in a 30m² flat in downtown. This is the most expensive rent i've ever paid and with the lowest wage i've had
SinGirl75
That’s so tiny. My flat is 50 square metres - I thought that my place was small. I’m sorry friend.
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
hey small places are easy to clean, it takes 20 minutes for me to clean everything up haha, cheers!
somethingsomethingpunny
yeah why live somewhere that expensive
malakim
Because thats where the jobs are?
somethingsomethingpunny
wow i didn't know that every single job ever was where rent was expensive?
malakim
Certainly not, but most office jobs tend to be in the big cities, which means high rent. In the country there are just very few jobs.
KillerTofu615
35% is the national average. I'm in income controlled housing and its almost 50% of our income.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
Income controlled housing is beyond fucked up in that it's based on county income. Also applying for the permit is a farce. Source: My job.
QuackQuackAttack
What city?
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
Curitiba, Brazil
jesophat
Move somewhere else. Get out of the city.
MATTYBE87
I don't live in the city. In fact, if I moved further into the country, my rent goes higher. I'm currently paying 90% of my pay in rent.
somethingsomethingpunny
lol either you make almost no money or you are living outside your means
MATTYBE87
I'm not a doctor and I live in Tasmania which is in a rental crisis. Next question.
MATTYBE87
I'm not a doctor and I live in Tasmania which is in a rental crisis. Next question.
AliBarber
It's really not that simple.
PubstarHero
It's really not. The higher I climb up in things though, the easier it gets for me to just up and leave though (as my skill set is 1/?
AliBarber
That's nice dear, not all of us are that lucky. My skillset is totally interchangeable around the planet but moving still costs a lot
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
Yep, firstly I would have to find somewhere furnished which doesn't exist outside downtown, this already makes it impossible to me
PubstarHero
is in demand + other things I cant talk about). I get nation wide job offers around what I make now. But if I was still 2/3
EmeraldLight
THIS. So many people say "Just move somewhere else" like it's freaking easy to do -.- I COULD move an hour away to a new town... except my
EmeraldLight
wage will decrease by 50% and my pad rent will probably only go down $100. AND I own a my trailer, so I'd have to try and sell.
PubstarHero
Climbing the ladder to get where I am at currently, it would be an impossible pipe dream. 3/3
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
Getting out of the city here means moving to real poor communities and having to travel almost 2 hours just to go to uni 1/2
meeewww
or.. move to a cheaper city
sombrerohorsewagon
I had a 3 hour commute and lived with a shotgun behind my bedroom door for four years saving up money. Not the best but thats what it takes
yarow12
I know people who simply cannot live like that. I'm just not willing to deal with unhealthy environments or crappy owners/neighbors.
SluntCayer
A three hour commute?? One way? I how is it possible to have a full time job and commute 6 hours a day? That's nuts.
HolyShitpicklesItsTuesday
but yeah, rent outside the city here goes to as low as 10% of your income (around 90-110 dollars a month)
klikklik1236
Where do you live?!
daftpunk34
What the fuck do you live in montana or something
SpitefulRed
Where the fuck do you live? A tent city?
nedstarkbastardson
I live near Montreal. Me and my girlfriend pay around 25% of our income in morgage for our condo. Regular 50k a year job, 35-40hour a week.
TheIncrediblePirate
I pay 20%ish but my “house” is 13m2 and I have to share my bathroom facilities.
Bleusilence
YES! I live alone and use only "29%"!
pickanack
Yea I was right around 60% when I lived in D.C
JustAnotherFurry
I pay 250€ a month utilities included and free 150.000 internet connection. Also free healthcare. And I pay 600€ in college tuition a year.
supdab
Where do you pay 250€ a month? But 600€ is a lot for tuition.
Bystandr
I wish. More like 55% now, and if i was to move out , the best I could likely do in the same accommodation is 65% and +.
thelonepig
This month I paid 13% on rent. I'm very fortunate.
stuiiful
I pay $650 for my rent (includes nothing but it’s a 2/3 bedroom house) I only bring in about $1800/1900 a month but I work about 70 mi away
epicfail331
So you're paying the difference in gas costs then?
stuiiful
No, not completely, also have 3 dependents. I’m doing okay for the area I’m in but most Apartment’s are more than I pay for rent
thetain
lol yeah, sign me up for that!
PunjabiMacgyver
FreyaNicci
Only 21% for me.
xJohnn
My fiance and I pay 11%. Guess we aren't doing too bad compared to a lot of people in this thread
spiderjohn36
I was thinking the same thing...
Sevulturus
Mines closer to 60% when I factor in taxes utilities and insurance.
Welshhoppo
Here in the UK we have a cap of 42% on a mortgage. Not sure about rent.
Nerfgunner
Get a better job
JupiterSSJ4
21% of my income goes to rent (2bd 2 ba), now I that my fiance lives with me, I have her income too for saving
PoppaBigBear
Come to think of it, my rent was 30% without utilities. I thought that was good.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
That's actually pretty average in terms of demographic profiling. Source: There's no way you'd go through a 100 pg PDF, but it's my job.
nunavailabul
More like 105%
Meddafizziks
Right? I was like "Yo foo I pay 60% not including utilities and amenities."
Shortendoftheleg
I’m hovering around 75 and that’s WITH another renter...
BruceWillisFromTheFifthElement
I'm right around 7-8%... granted I rent a very small room from a buddy who has a small house in a relatively inexpensive area of the US
BruceWillisFromTheFifthElement
I'm just waiting to pay off my student loans, which account for about 25%, at which point I will buy a house and probably be over 50% :(
HollyRex
54%, I live in California.
justhatsHowyouGetants
Where do you live?
AntiDownVoteActivist
Here. Here.
sutra46
This is a sincere enquiry, would you consider living in a place where pay check is smaller but the rent is way cheaper? Why live 'here?'
halfwindsor
I absolutely would. In my field the work is concentrated in London. Another 5 yrs & it'll be different for me, but for now I need to be here
sutra46
Bummer. The accumulated experience helps in future job opportunity, am sure.
Stinkyshark
Wat the fuck
jwhitScifiKing
Yo, It’s kinda scary that you don’t k ow this already, but if it costs 60%, you’re not living within your means.
thenameshandbanana
Yo it’s kinda scary that you don’t know this but some people have no choice.
jwhitScifiKing
There’s always a choice. Sometimes it’s painful, or difficult, but still, the life you live is up to you.
thenameshandbanana
Cool I guess instead of paying rent I’ll just go be homeless
Sylmor
In my country you're not allowed to rent below €725 a month if you don't qualify as poor. I pay 800 a month to rent, no choice involved. /2
Sylmor
Thats 800 out of 1900 income and I don't get any government funding that those with less income get leaving me with a lot less remaining
igivetheinternets
So you're saying your government is fucking you
CrazyCatLad
I pay $1095/mo for rent. Which is about 33% for me. Would love for that rent to contribute to a mortgage instead though.
SteevyT
$955, a little under 20% for me, before including wife's income. I have an attached garage. SOMEONE SELL US YOUR FUCKING HOUSE!
steelironman
Ha. Got u beat with 1075$/mo. But for me thats 50% in the winter and no OT
CrazyCatLad
My last place in PA started at $715 and jumped to $825 over a few years.
steelironman
I did have a place in iowa for around that. And there is section A housing for that price in IL. But at 12$hr i make too much to live there.
MedTactic
Im just happy i was even able to find a studio for $700+ after extras for 300sqft on 28th st of grand rapids, did i get lucky?
TheGiflivesagain
Shit I'm paying 1700 a month in NH for a 3 bedroom
steelironman
Same. But with utilities and food it goes to 100%. Lucky i live with someone else to split with me.
NomadGray
I dont even gave the other person splitting it eith me... She starts her job on the 16th though... But shit.
BrianTheNomad
Same. I’ll be taking a semester off just to get another job/save up a bit.
KadeDoyle
You can buy food? I wish I could buy food
BahamutBBob
Gotta wait for ramen packets to be >25 cents.
KadeDoyle
Top ramen and hotdogs. Feast of kings.
GimcrackGewgaw
I estimate about 15% of our take-home goes to housing. My friends have A+ pads and a bedroom for every kid. We live in our means and save.
FelixTheAnimator
Where tf are you?
GimcrackGewgaw
We live in a small apartment in an undesirable part of NYC. Decent job + frugal life.
FelixTheAnimator
The avg income for someone in Brooklyn or Queens is twice what the average income for someone in my city. I don't think it quite equates.
RaynWisp
80% of the country that isn't on the West Coast is like this...
FelixTheAnimator
Out of curiosity...What's the average per capita income where you are vs. what the average rent? (you can look that up on city-data.com)
FelixTheAnimator
Given that there isn't a state in the US where the minimum wage can afford an average apartment (and I'm in TX) I think you might be wrong.
evilgriff
You shouldn’t pay more than 30% for shelter, not including utilities. Try to find a more affordable apartment, or get a roommate.
thenameshandbanana
3 people in a 2 bedroom apartment here I still pay 50% on if my income on rent.
MyFavouriteHoodie
You don't live in Peterborough, UK, do you
evilgriff
I live in New England, Massachusetts to be precise. My wife and I make 115k combined with a masters and a bachelors. We own a house 1/2
evilgriff
2/2 Oh right , as a veteran I used the VA Home-loan. Sorry guys I feel like I cheated the system now.
BrianTheNomad
If you go into the military, then yes there are more options. For a lot of us though there are less options. Good on you though for that.
TacoCup
My folks make a lot of money, and live in an expensive area. I never have or ever will recieve help 1/
TacoCup
financially. I'm just starting a career, do ok, not well enough to move though. Do I forfeit my career and move somewhere cheaper or 2/
TacoCup
stick with my career which has the plausibility of being very lucrative. Easy choice for me. Don't even consider moving an option.
NomadGray
..... If i paid 30%, i'd be living in my car... Which is paid off. Like.. fuck you.
evilgriff
That’s what the formula says on my budget spreadsheet. Geez guys.
AliBarber
You don't live in Auckland, Sydney, London, Paris, San Francisco, New York or Toronto, do you
evilgriff
Nope. Too expensive.
LurkerOfDarkness
To be fair, he is right, but those places also have overinflated housing prices.
ashackatak
You can’t really say that. Supply and demand mi amigo.
thenameshandbanana
Don’t forget Seattle, prices are ridiculous here. Getting the hell out of here once I finish my masters
TheBeerDoctor
Honestly if everyone who wasn't highly paid left those areas things would get figured out fast. Like how fireman in Menlo park make 175k.
spoons3
London here -V.lucky to be in Zone1 with affordable rent - house was previously trashed &gutted. Odd # of housemates help too (3bed place)
AliBarber
What's affordable to you though? I lived in Marylebone for 4 months in a bedsit for £565pcm and then out to Walthamstow for 8, £650pcm.
ashackatak
You don’t live in Southern California do you
evilgriff
No. I live where it’s affordable, lol.
VolcanoHerder
But are there high paying jobs for all of us there?
stirthepot
ScipioWright
I'm in a pretty cheap apartment and work as a civil engineer. Fresh out of college. ~60% goes to apt, utilities, and internet
[deleted]
[deleted]
evilgriff
Wow, that sucks dude. Hopefully in a year you can move to a better paying job. Municipal jobs have decent bennies, and job security.
ScipioWright
Nah, just in a pricey area. North east NJ. Thinking of moving out west when the lease is up.
superhams
Don't understand why you've been downvoted to shit, you're right. If you're spending 60%+ on rent, you cannot afford to live there.
duckhostage
All the places I’ve lived where the housing was affordable didn’t have any jobs willing to pay you for 40hrs/wk to afford it.
superhams
I'm not saying it's fair, it absolutely isn't. It's a shitty situation.
ashackatak
Depends on how much you make. If you clear 150k, living off of 60k a year is entirely doable.
evilgriff
Reality sucks, try to sow a little wisdom and everyone yells at me.
TheOsteoarchaeologist
They're getting downvoted because that's just not feasible everywhere...I have a fulltime job, decent wage - cheapest studio = %50 of wage.
evilgriff
I live an hour outside Boston, pay 1800/month for mortgage, property tax, & insurance. 3bdrm, 2 bath, 2 car garage. 1 acre lot.
superhams
I've looked for five minutes on rent in zone 2, london: cheapest studio i could find = £1,1750pcm, cheapest living with people = £500pcm.
superhams
The studio bit is the problem, living with people will reduce that cost. What they said isn't unfair, it's the system that is.
izoli413365
Thats over 2k/mo. Could get a nice ass place with that money most places.
TehGuard
I struck the jackpot, rent is around 25 or 26 percent for a large two bedroom apartment in a very nice area for 520$, just midwest things
zombiedisneyprincess
That is so cheap. I'm jealous.
givememorememes
Dude, holy crap.... I can’t even afford to be homeless for $520 where I live
jimjong1
25% with a roommate for a 4 bed 2.5 bath house right outside of Portland
LiberalsAndConservativesSuck
Midwest is so cheap I love it
BoneThatTrombone
Only problem with a low cost of living is that the quality of living is also low. there is nothing to do here!
HouseofWeiner
In like the middle of nowhere town?
TehGuard
Cincinnati
b0Bm3h
Where on the orange earth do you live?
GreatOdinsTaint
Except Chicago, where a studio that can only fit a twin bed costs 1700 a month unless you wanna live in a warzone.
lyricallove
Wtf? In my city, 20 minutes away from Dallas, a small 1bdrm/1bth is like $900. It's impossible to find ANYTHING under $700. Unless you 1/2
lyricallove
enjoy living in decrepit shitholes. 2/2
FussyZeus
$850/mo for a duplex unit, 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, basement + two car garage. #justmidwestthings
smurfalurfalurfalurf
WHERE
TehGuard
Cincinnati
PunjabiMacgyver
darude - sandstorm
doggo
Clearly not Chicago.
LiberalsAndConservativesSuck
False. Currently living in Logan square (northern Chicago) with a $1400 1 bedroom apartment and am making $5200 a month. 27% goes to rent
mkyner
5200 after taxes?
LiberalsAndConservativesSuck
My company gives a little extra for rent for relocating me here so I included that too, so ya I guess so.
GreatOdinsTaint
Holy shit, where do you work that pays 5200/month? Teach me!
LiberalsAndConservativesSuck
Recent grad of Purdue university and got a job as a manufacturing engineer for an automotive supplier
doggo
"northern Chicago"? What? You mean "the North Side". And, dude, really? Making $5200 a month means you're a statistical anomaly. Get out.
wam3483
I spend about 25% on mortgage but I'm fortunate, and live in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the US, and have worked hard.
RoovyRoo
I think it's implied that two people splitting rent ends up being 35%
smurfalurfalurfalurf
Dude I pay roughly 70% of income on rent, I feel your pain. Can't wait to graduate college but I'm not even sure it's going to get better
stickinthemud
I'm a teacher who was able to buy a home at 27 rent for anything decent is outrageous though
Iwantsomepie
50% income to rent here in Maine
jawsoshuell
25% in rent, but a 100-year old house, doesn't meet code, bad neighborhood, that the owners only bought to turn the backyard into parking.
ThisIsntYou
Agree. My flat costs 300€ rent (utilities not included) i get 700€/month
kief87
That is a shit salary.. what do you do?
scarfface
Bafög
JustAnotherFurry
Bafög+Minijob+WBS, Studenten leben doch wie Könige wenn sie keine Idioten sind!
PostmortalCoprophagia
Und was macht man wenn man kein Bafög bekommt? Richtig, von weniger Geld Leben als jeder Hartz 4 Bezieher.
ladis540
Part time imgur server?
IdleNarrator
That is considered a good salary in Eastern Europe.
kief87
Is that with a college education or?
IdleNarrator
Depends what degree. In IT, law, or economics you can usually achieve these numbers with ease, but some like mechanics engineering...
CamelsCantFlyInSpace
Living on welfare on northen europe gets you that 500€ m / rent payed do nothing
ThisIsntYou
Living in Eastern Europe
NotYoTypicalImgurian
Great comeback.
zombiedisneyprincess
I used to live in East Europe too. That's a decent salary there compared to the minimum wage.
rabbiebabbie
Your job is living in eastern Europe? Sounds brutal
SexualConsent
Probably one of the Balkan Slavic countries like Croatia or Slovenia, since he's using the Euro
Vardulf95
Fuck man, I pay 50% of income to rent. And that’s after 5 YEARS of non-stop working.
Vardulf95
(I’m 23)
robogeek78
I spend 35% of my income on alimony
MsSchadenfraulein
God I thought mine would be bad at 50% before utilities but looks like I am flying high on here.
Aimlockbelch
Lived in NYC for decades. 60% of my income went to rent. Now living in VT. My mortgage is 40% of my income now, at least for 30 more years
DooksandPooks
Yeah it’s more like 50% for most people
DaveWesh
People ask why I live in North Dakota - cause its cheap. 107k for a house, payments less than a 2 bed room apartment and 1200 sqft of equity
Oberic
65%ish for me. Ugh. 35% would be amazing.
Oberic
Before electric, internet, gas and food, obviously.
IStoleALoafOfBread
most landlords in my city require someone to co-sign the lease if rent is more than 33% of your income
Textuality
I'm paying 35% of my income on rent. Course, I live up in a small town where my 3br house is only 700/mo.
origina1crisp
35% is what I have left AFTER rent!
chad57
That's unimaginable. I work from home, but since my dad's office goes out of business, I see the need to assist him as breadwinner 1/?
chad57
And now I barely save enough for my wedding, but I think family's food & bills deserve the most of 25% of my wage 2/?
chad57
But it only costs USD 2.5 here for a bowl of ramen, banana oreo smoothies, and a egg-mayo sandwich, so I think I got that going for me 3/?
mitotinytims
i do think this can be case-dependent. I'm a grad student living in a large city, and 32% of my stipend rents a decent one-bedroom.
Popspoppingit
I'm pay 25% right now, living with parents, living by myself it would be closer 70%. FML
Qpix
atm i spend 100% of my income (student loan) on rent and savings cover food.. so yeahhhhh i really need to get a job asap
ClimbThemCrimps
Are we talking percentage out of take-home pay (post taxes and insurance) or out of pre-tax salary?
The4thWiseMan
After tax. Rent only tho, don’t include utilities
ClimbThemCrimps
Oh okay cool. We are about to move into a more expensive place and I have been feeling really anxious about spending more money on rent,>
ClimbThemCrimps
SteevyT
Uh....I can't do that calculation. My rent includes some utilities.
DosedDane
Cries in danish
blurgh
My rent is about 1/7 off my income here in sweden. Its a student flat though
blurgh
And shared. Would be almost 25% otherwise
RuthlessRuben
I share with 2 people and it's ~28% for me in Austria. Nice place, close to a subway station, shitty insulation though.
faithfuldoubt
I'm kind of confused. I work entry-level customer service and live in a nice part of town, and my rent is less than 20% of my income.. (1/2)
jimjong1
Where at?
faithfuldoubt
Where do you all live where rent is 60% of your income?? Or is it more don't have tons of great job opportunities? .... (2/3)
faithfuldoubt
Not trying to be condescending... I'm genuinely curious. Sorry if I sound judgy. (3/3)
BrobiwanKenobro
My friend (paying more not to commute super far through atlanta), cheapest apartment he found was 1600/month for a studio.
halfwindsor
I live in London. A 2 bed in a reasonable area with <1hr commute is ~£1,500 a month.
halfwindsor
Add in utilities and my partner and I are paying around 45% of our combined income.
Abusabus
A lot of this is determined by where you live. A large city? Expect to pay more.
WookieWookieWookie
but you can always live in a suburb and commute in. There are options besides a shitty appt that costs 1500 a month rent.
GalaxyExpress999
Sure. Pay big rent, or live in shitty place. Having 1-2 hour commute counts for latter, IMO.
catsandbeerandbeerandcats
I recently moved to a small mountain town. Rents are just as ridiculous as the city I moved from.
drinkALLthemilk
25yo here. My rent is about 1/6th of my paycheck. I found a job specifically in a place that had cheap rent ($400). Work smart, not hard.
landofahz
That advice is peachy, but not practical for a lot of people. Certain careers require you to live in specific places, and it's hard /2
landofahz
when you train for years in a field you love to just switch to something else in favor of more convenient housing.
landofahz
But yeah, if you can do your job anywhere, then totally do it somewhere with affordable.
OneDayWeRodeTheMountainCrestAndIWentEastAndHeWentWest
If an industry's entry-level jobs leave you struggling to pay rent, I'd be worried that's not a good industry to get into?
OneDayWeRodeTheMountainCrestAndIWentEastAndHeWentWest
It's a sign supply outstrips demand - an unpaid internship leads to an insecure and poorly paid job, if not unemployment.
BernieKl
It's precisely because people are willing to pay more than 35% that rents are going up. Landlords will charge whatever they can get.
OriginalSyn
People are "willing" to forego a lot of things in order to not be homeless.
NormyX
No it isn't, do you know anything about housing affordability or are you just pretending to know what you're talking about?
ajohn7211
I work two jobs (40-60+hr/wk) and currently only spend about 10% monthly income on my shitty apartment in a college town.
somethingsomethingpunny
finally someone who is making smart choices. live where you can afford, get capital saved up and move when you can
AbeoLogos
If they're only paying 10% their monthly income on an apartment in a college town, the apartment's owned by a friend or family. Only way.
ajohn7211
I make close to $3k/mo between the two jobs. Rent is $280($840 split 3 ways) +utils for a really shitty basement in a house.
butlerfetish
Have you looked at the cost of moving somewhere you can afford? Especially when you grew up somewhere you can't afford?
somethingsomethingpunny
yes. I did it myself? grew up in an area where rent was explosively high, worked my ass off and got out
pfiidude2
Yeah, clearly all poor people need to do is uproot their life and spend all their money moving. Thats never resulted in homelessness evr
nousernamesleftforthekids
Many of us have to live where we can find work though. The job market is kinda shit.
malexmatt
Job markets are local. Nationally, unemployment is very low and wages are creeping up because labor supply is tight.
somethingsomethingpunny
I can understand this. however you can live there until you have saved up enough/actually find a job somewhere else. I know it is hard
somethingsomethingpunny
but it IS possible
Ravenbreaker
It's sad that you're being downvoted for promoting a "pull yourself up" mentality. It's the truth. We're not trees. We can move.
Recreationaldrugsnuggler
I spend 30% on rent. But that's after working 80 hours a week every week for 5 years and dying a littleceach day.....
[deleted]
[deleted]
UilleannMann
SURVIVE.
theonlythingIknowisnothing
Same, living in a smaller city. But the 80 hr work weeks for my salary means I make a slight bit more than minimum wage. My choice though...
AirKeytar
What is the point of even being alive at that point? You are living to work to pay bills and nothing else. What is the end goal there?
UilleannMann
I spend about that on owning my hut. I don’t know that there is a point anymore. Wtf are we doing with ourselves?
Noumenon72
As someone who spent 13% of his income on rent for years... there is no point to being alive anyway. Even if you get to quit at age 55.
thePyromanic
The way it's going we'll never be able to quit working
AirKeytar
13% is low. I meant working that much, you can't possibly have any social life or fun so why even bother living to be a tool for a corp?
UilleannMann
You’ve got it real nice
ThatUsernameHasAlreadyBeenChosenAndlsNoLongerAvailable
move out of the big cities and work in trades.
Pappy10299
Situations may change, but man hasn't. If you can't make it, scream and cry and say it's everyone else's fault.
Frostbitecosplay
That really does seem to be the secret. I still pay about 40% of my income on housing but that's a 15 year mortgage on a 4 bedroom house.
TehGuard
I live 10 minutes for downtown Cincinnati, my rent for a large two bedroom is 520$ in a very nice area
UilleannMann
As a former career welder, now accountant. I can safely say that I made a hell of a lot more as a welder and was much happier at my task.
ElizKM86
You could do one or the other but probably not both. Not a lot of work for tradesmen in rural areas.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ThatUsernameHasAlreadyBeenChosenAndlsNoLongerAvailable
then move. find a town with some industry. the're build a new plant in my town - population 4000 and they need 1400 tradesman to build it
ThatUsernameHasAlreadyBeenChosenAndlsNoLongerAvailable
"the bottom" is apprentices, they make 60k
ThatUsernameHasAlreadyBeenChosenAndlsNoLongerAvailable
i meant to smaller cities not rural
ElizKM86
Then I guess I'm curious what you think housing costs look like even in smaller cities. What cities did you have in mind?
lobstasalad9095
My 2 kids have no college debt because I scrimped and saved for 18 years to pay for it. I am a Boomer.
CuttleFishOfCthulu
Alot of kids dont take into account that your generation knew how to SAVE MONEY. You guys didn't blow your money on shit.
oddmog
Good on you for doing that. Honestly the situation is boned in a lot of places where you need family to bail you out which is the sad part.
SephiRothIRA
529 calc says if I start with $20k and contribute $100/mo for 18yrs I’ll have $130k+ for the fund and it says that’s not enough in 2036!
HelpfulCorn
It will be for instate tuition. Otherwise 2 years at a private or out of state college.
Bam906
You are a rare breed sir. Well done
SkyrimTraveler
I'm so glad I didn't have any kids, I would feel so guilty letting them grow up in what this world has become. Those that came before suck.
Thewayofthebear
Why would We have a child if it meant We’d be dependent on government handouts for the next 20 years?
buzzl1ght
And "they" wonder why the global birthrate is in decline.
bringbakfirefly
A much needed decline tbh.
EreyaTheForgotten
And it is happening all over the world. The politicians think less about the people and more about themselves.
kr18
Eh to be fair I think that's the way politicians have always been
EreyaTheForgotten
Well I have been studying a lot of history and politics from my country and seems like they cared about the country 40y ago.
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
This is pathetic. Yes there are problems that millennials inherited, but wantonly shoving blame for them onto all members of a previous (1)
Usernameisalreadyregisteredwasalreadyregistered
generation and pretending like they're all horrible and have nothing to offer is only going to make things worse.
thetain
This is why I support the rural life. It's possible to raise kids cheap in some areas. if you can save some on groceries it helps a lot...
bringbakfirefly
My son lives quite well but we also moved to an area that has decent living expenses and good wages. Stop moving to CA.
catsinthejukebox
Yeah! And fuck all those people on the East Coast and the Midwest too. Stop living in places that cost money or have high unemployment.
bringbakfirefly
I live in the Midwest and live a decent lifestyle in an area not corrupted with high expenses. I also moved 1k miles to make it happen.
catsinthejukebox
That's awesome for you. I've been working 10 years to try to pull myself out of Detroit. It's not easy or guaranteed. Finding work is hard.
bringbakfirefly
Detroit is a terrible to place to thrive. You should get out ASAP.
pezzle
Just to be clear - it’s the politicians that caused this - not the average 40-50 something.
greendean
If it wasn't for 'those who came before', you wouldn't be here bitcvhing, now, would you!
bannyd
just had my first kid last June - I already feel guilty about the bullshit shes going to have to deal with in her life
HerrFraeulein
I get the sentiment, but people have been saying this for 2000 years
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
Uhh, what the world has become? Do you know what 1900-1950 was like? And before that? We're in the golden age right now.
DoctorMantisTobogganMD
Maybe globally when talking about war and peace, but not for the common person.
rabbiebabbie
Lol no definitely for the common person my dude. All measures of quality of life have skyrocketed since the 50s
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
darkdragonempress
And after that came a long reign of prosperity. My uncle worked the rigs for 8 months and paid for his last two years of college entirely. 1
darkdragonempress
Kids I went to school with that now do the same job can’t accomplish that. 2
rooik14
Yeah we had our own small crisis here not that long ago and americans are working longer for less pay.
hearthstoneaccount3
Yeah if you have to go back 100 years to try and prove someone wrong you aint really winning. We peaked in 70s
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
70s wasn't even in the Information Age. We're still on the rise.
malexmatt
Peaked in the 70's? Good of you to be so breathlessly ignorant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9375_recession
ddare
...the generation that can't do math correctly. The $95k house appreciated by 700%, not 7000%.
HappyBeach
Right!! 789%
Kevii88
Was thinking the same :D
IdeaOfLove
I'm thinking it was a typo, just because it's pretty obvious.
Laouke
Save it for the semantics bowl...
SexyStarfish
That's not a correct way to look at it. It should be based on an annualized rate of return which is around 11%, high, not abnormally high.
nppraxis
That’s pretty high. Inflation averages 2-3% annually. A house inflating 11% annually is a lot.
SexyStarfish
It is a high rate of return for housing, but there's a lot of factors that go into that. Location, demand for housing, rising wages, etc 1/2
SexyStarfish
2/2 that increase doesn't just disappear. People that bought houses sell them for a profit. That's why people invest in real estate.
eractnod1
Only if you're comparing how much something cost a year ago which they weren't. It would have been more enlightening to use >
eractnod1
CPI to show actual differences in real cost between then and now.
SexyStarfish
Uh huh? They were talking about total return which is meaningless. I can say I've gotten a total return of 20% on 2 different investments /2
SexyStarfish
2/3 but the holding period of each is very important. If one is based on 1 year vs 10 years that is a big difference. 700+% without a time
SexyStarfish
3/3 period means squat. Yes, you can adjust for inflation which will lower the return, but you're missing my point.
MyDogJake
$35k/ year for a teacher? No wonder you're circling the drain...
CaptCounterCulture
If you remove new teachers the average wage is $57,000.
mallerzkay
And in California its like 70k.
Scrappytonya
19th year, Master's degree - I don't make close to $57K and probably won't.
DoYouEvenCareAboutPeople
Y'all need scandinavian socialism to get out your rut. The rich should be taxed more. Nobody needs 3 houses, 4 cabins and 6 cars.
8bucktruck
No one needs more than food and water and a warm room.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
Sorta helps when you have a country the size of a large city and super low population density.
MinisterofToques
Long before we met, my partner started a company while raising 2 sons as a single dad. The man didn’t sleep or have any free time...
MinisterofToques
... for 20 years. He later sold his company and gave a lot of the money to charities. His sons and extended family received the benefit...
MinisterofToques
...of paid-for university educations. He still works tirelessly out of passion for his work. He didn’t come from money but earned...
MinisterofToques
... every penny. I feel bad that people as a whole think he somehow deserves to have to pay more taxes. He works and sacrifices just as...
MinisterofToques
... much as the next person. Just as deserving of his success. So if he want to own 6 cars and 4 cabins it’s no one’s position to tell...
malexmatt
What exactly is Scandinavian socialism? I always hear people talk about it, never had someone explain it to me.
MrSwaggerMcJaegerReborn
Mixed market economy, big focus on public sector with higher taxes but also government provided education / healthcare. Paid vacation 1/2
MrSwaggerMcJaegerReborn
And parental leave. Money when your sick and unemployed etc.
Phaggotboy
And you think that no billionaires exist in the Nordics? The Nordics thrive because of their products business policies
matthiasfactor
I can have as many houses as I fucking want.
SitusInversus
But that would be socialism, muh!
thetain
American who lived in Scandinavia here, thank you! Socially responsible, kind, and fiscally reasonable people keep this world on its feet!
[deleted]
[deleted]
SDhn2a
...What does Bernie Sanders have to do with this?
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
And seeing that his own tax plan would place him in the highest bracket, where is the alleged hypocrisy? He's willing to pay his fair share.
LincLoud
https://www.cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/43-taxes-and-economy/3071-tax-week-bernie-sanders-didnt-practice-what-he-preaches
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Even if this information is correct (not exactly a trustworthy source, that), he paid his taxes fair & square under the current tax code.
[deleted]
[deleted]
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Millionaire only if you add his wife's assets, otherwise his net worth is around 800k.
LincLoud
I was talking about the fact the above says "No one needs 3 homes" and yet Sanders owns 3 houses.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Which he doesn't need either. Besides, the above text wasn't written by Bernie Sanders. Don't try & change the subject with whataboutisms.
Couchguy303
I love how this argument never mentions that the US basically pays the defense bill for Scaninavian countries, or how the middle class there
Couchguy303
is heavily taxed, or how it costs twice as much to buy many products, or how they're starting to run out of money and that's why you're
Couchguy303
seeing austerity measures taken and economical right-wing politicians getting elected. Most of all, you never hear the person making this
Couchguy303
argument also say "These countries only have about 5-10 million homogeneous people, the vast majority of whom have the same values and
Couchguy303
culture."
admiraldookiebritches
It’s not ok to tell someone what’s an acceptable way to spend their money.
meeewww
yes it is. greed is the cause of almost all problems on earth
GimcrackGewgaw
It might be ok to say it is unjust that some have so much while others have so little.
[deleted]
[deleted]
admiraldookiebritches
*are not
Snooj
Raising taxes only implies that you trust the government to spend your money to fix the economy.
Qualtagh
Then pair it with lowering taxes on the poor.
PaperCl1p
In the USA the vast majority of the poor do not pay federal taxes at all. Close to 48% of Americans actually.
Qualtagh
Correct. But everyone in the country pays taxes at some point in the chain (taxes on goods, etc), so there is room for redistribution.
PaperCl1p
A large percent get paid by the federal government. We redistribute all the time
Doumdidoum
What do Scandinavians do to fix the economy and the government? They control their politicians.
nextgenpants
"Nobody needs 3 houses"
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
With a net worth of somewhere around 800k (twice that if you add his spouse's assets), he's not exactly Bill Gates. And this is after 35+...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
years in politics. He's among America's poorest senators and all the others are a lot younger.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Besides, he never said "tax everyone but my family". On the contrary. He'd fall in the highest tax bracket of his own tax plan.
ZtZebaztian
So would a swath of people who own 1 house and 5 stores....
MenaceToSobriety
GoldenRamoth
yeah that's a guide to happiness. But ignoring that the world is fucked and avoiding fixing it, is a good way to perpetuate issues.
MenaceToSobriety
I agree. I was commenting merely on the "nobody needs...[list of enviable things]" comment.
GoldenRamoth
But that's the point. When some folks have all those things, and others can't afford to eat, and are wage slaves, it's a valid point.
MenaceToSobriety
I do not agree with that, but respect your right to the opinion.
rooik14
and then he gave her ice cream. Also not sure how much advice I'd take from a guy who wanks in front of his co-workers.
MenaceToSobriety
If a person gives another excellent advice, then leaves the room and literally shits on his coworkers, does that invalidate his advice?
rooik14
His advice is also shit. His analogy is not that of a healthy society. Let's say for example we had a husband and wife. One works 1/
MenaceToSobriety
If you disagree with the advice, that's fine, but to frame it in the context of the scandal is simple and irrelevant.
rooik14
2/ in IT and makes big bucks while the other is physically disabled so they can't work long hours or in a lucrative field. Should the
rooik14
3/3 disabled spouse then pay the same amount in as the IT spouse and their spending money be determined on what they had left?
MenaceToSobriety
No, but I tend to agree with the logic behind most extreme examples.
Winterboer
The rich will simply emigrate. I've met some Swedish expats like that. They fell into the highest tax bracket so they moved.
Jenshk
Actually very few leave so it has no impact.
Winterboer
I don't know about that. Anybody with that kind of money can live anywhere they want to, or just hide income offshore in foreign banks.
Jenshk
I know it’s hard for some to understand but many of us are actually happy to pay our tax. We see the money being spend on people who need it
flamingflamingo
Not ALL of them.
KharnApproves
If you're more driven by money than you are by the well being of your fellow man: you can go fuck yourself.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
I can't speak for Scandinavian countries, but I know that many German employers actually care about their employees. It wouldn't occur to...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
them to cut costs wherever possible and pay them as little as they can get away with. On the contrary. Skilled labor is expensive due to...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
our apprenticeship system & employers go out of their way to keep a good worker who has been trained in-house. The entire mindset is ...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
different over here. Less "greed is good", less "I got mine, screw the rest of you", more social responsibility & sense of community.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
If they want to emigrate to some 3rd world nation where their kids are at risk of being shot in the classroom, so be it. Enough are staying.
niknights
Why would they emigrate to the US?
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Because it has been turned into a tax haven and celebrity playground for the global super-rich.
rooik14
Good fuck those who don't want to contribute to a healthy country. Let's make all the good countries like this and then they can all go 1/2
Xeynid
"Tax the rich more so there's more money." "But what if they leave?" "Good" That doesn't solve the issue.
MadHakon
If they leave and refuse to do business, someone else will eventually take their place. The market doesn't disappear because they do.
Xeynid
If something about the market causes those in the market to want to leave, then that can reduce the size of the potential market.
rooik14
Just some of the bad actors will leave, not all rich people. Some, if not most, understand they need to chip in their fair share.
PaperCl1p
"their fair share" would be the same percentage as everyone else. Progressive tax system is messed up.
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
then you'll need to tax those remaining even more to balance out what you lost when others left.
rooik14
2/2 live in fucking Saudi Arabia if they want to be robber barons
Winterboer
Well and good, but I don't follow: if the people in the highest tax brackets emigrate to Saudi, where will the tax money now come from?
rooik14
It won't be all of those in the high tax bracket just the people who don't believe in contributing to their country
sky12354
Hey what's wrong with Saudi at least my country doesn't have income or property taxes college is free and you can withdraw money from the
sky12354
Bank without fees go saudi ????????
rooik14
2/2 so heaven for an asshole who happens to be rich and doesn't care about others because it might mean one less yacht.
rooik14
Let's see, a theological extremist state who funds terrorists and cares more about the wealth of the few than the health of its citizens 1/2
LincLoud
Worse yet, for those who are under 18 (maybe even under 16), the early jobs market (retail, food services, etc.), the ones where you first->
LincLoud
gain experience are slowly being replaced by automation (which was the inevitable end result of advancement, I won't argue that) and as ->
LincLoud
such fewer young teens will be able to build any capital early on or gain any real world experience in a traditional manner.
CyberCunt
In germany we did some math: by 2030, ~60% of jobs will be replaced by automation.
LincLoud
I don't doubt it, unless your math was done by someone unemployed. Kidding. Japan is already going that route, a major accounting firm ->
LincLoud
plans to replace several accounting jobs with a specialized AI. I am not sure what people of the future will do.
adventurekitten
Meh, but weren't most people farmers only 100 years ago? And we made new jobs.Like Yoga instructor or programmer or dog walker.
adventurekitten
maybe dog walker existed. But still my point. They will figure something out. Start the next microsoft.
LincLoud
Microsoft was started by a man who was too smart for Harvard. Not by a former farmer. The average (or below) person will be left behind
adventurekitten
Only if education doesn't keep up with the changes. And there is no reason it shouldn't. Great teachers exist.
LincLoud
Great teachers who can overcome a massive budget shortage? The service industry is being replaced. More and more wait staff are being ->
adventurekitten
Jobs are changing they aren't going away. Now more people are employed in the service sector which saw the biggest gains after the recess
Asteroidrules
Reminder: in the 1970s and earlier, a minimum wage job would put you through college debt free.
EarthAnimalArmy
late 80s is were minimum wage hit $5 an hour, and where its stayed until recently, 30 years of minimum wage less than $6
MarkWatneysVicodinPotato
I went to college in NY state 2000-2004 and paid for mine with 2 $10/hr jobs. Graduated debt free. It can be done but not at minimum wage.
adddaaaammmmm
And I think at about 10 hours a week. Now you’d have to work 48 iirc. That’s not even real
CouchCarrot
Reminder: no it wouldn't.
jlrolin
30,000 had the same buying power as 100,000 today. That right there should convince people, but ya know... fake news. Thanks Fox News.
theMonkeyTrap
My solution is simple. Allow student loan to be discharged in bankruptcy and let market take its course. All nonperforming bs will be gone.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
If they did this, there would be no reason to not declare bankruptcy. I'm not buying a house in 7 years after which my record will be clean.
CotterPyke
Afraid you're wrong there. Minimum wage in 1978 was about $3.00 an hour. Not likely to put yourself through college w/out financial aid.
Asteroidrules
College tuition was much lower in 1978, and the dollar was less inflated so it was worth more.
CotterPyke
i'm aware of the value of the dollar over time. Even considering ditto, it was cheaper but not nearly as cheap as you may think.
pyrrhlis
Ahem. Inflation?
Solemnace
So yeah, minimum wage has gone up by around 140%, whereas the cost of tuition has gone up by roughly 2800%
Solemnace
Yeah, how could you afford college on such little pay? Unless perhaps the average annual tuition fee was 360$ at the time.
CaptCounterCulture
Colleges tuition went up, we need to look at the effects of government loans that colleges take advantage of.
UrCompanionCube
That's exactly why. The kicker is to consider what generation is running the colleges
Asteroidrules
The creation of out-of-state tuition was also a major factor. That didn't exist prior to the 80s, now it's more than double in-state tuition
hakunamatatas
Exactly, everyone can get free money for college from the government. More people are going to college, so they responded by raising prices.
CaptCounterCulture
And it should obviously be the opposite, more people using something usually lowers the costs of each individual. But not when there's >
CaptCounterCulture
No incentive and every other college is abusing it.
hakunamatatas
1 Well university is also a bit of a unique product as there is exclusivity, you can't just go to Harvard if you can afford the classes.
hakunamatatas
2 You have to show them you deserve it. Though if you just donate millions of dollars you could probably get in.
thepunchline710
No, my generation is the one that fucking ate tide pods.
Fishkeeper
Previous ones did things like eat live goldfish and cram themselves into phone booths. Humans are stupid.
rabbiebabbie
You realize there was like 11 people who ate tide pods and the majority were elderly people. You're elderly?
thepunchline710
It's almost like it was a joke
rabbiebabbie
That's not allowed here
thepunchline710
My bad, I'll watch myself next time
rabbiebabbie
Check yourself before you riggiddity wreck yourself
Garrly
I’m tired of this generation bullshit.
winifrit
Yes. I'm a millennial- it's really not that bad IMO.
adventurekitten
I agree. I've mostly only heard millennials defending themselves by how rough they have it. Are there other vocal sides to the argument?
Sirmane
I'll be real..I make 70k and have only 6k in student debt. Then again I joined the military and went into IT. Earned my BSITM free over 6 yr
serpentinebaboo
Humblebrag.
illogical06
I make 70k too. It isn't as comfortable as I thought. Definitely not bad tho. The housing, medical, and education market is shit tho.
Sirmane
That's for sure. I am working overtime so I am pretty happy making a very good wage. Not as good as 90k would be but still comfortable
HowFarmsWork
I think you’ll find even 90K is really only like making 55K after taxes. The system is set up so the more you make, the more you pay.
ladoys
How much of that do you lose in withholding taxes?
illogical06
Roughly 30 percent
hwatL4bloopy
was it worth it? i'm debating moving to afford medical school.
PaperCl1p
Moving where? State med schools are cheap af.
hwatL4bloopy
NZ maybe
PaperCl1p
Are you from the USA?
hwatL4bloopy
Yeah
Sirmane
I recommend the military to anyone that can join. You get the GI Bill after 4 years. Easiest job you will ever have.
hwatL4bloopy
I was debating the medical scholarships but I'm also getting older at this point
Sirmane
I believe the max age is somewhere around 35. Even if you join guard or reserves you will still be able to use education assistance.
SomeDetroitGuy
If your measure of what housing prices look like is San Diego, CA, then you've got a very skewed view of housing prices. Two teachers living
Danmanbadman
When I was in HS, two of the teachers I had were married, both had to work a second job to put food on the table.
catapocalypse
Thank you for this. Why are ridiculously high cost of living scenarios always used for these arguments.
hstein3
Because city living is glamorized enough that people can't comprehend living somewhere else
ladoys
This
seratraxalyn
Because more people live in cities than the countryside, perhaps?
seratraxalyn
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.html
malexmatt
What that census report calls 'cities' includes a lot of the places people like catapocalypse are talking about.
KryptKeeper
Can we just take a moment to recognize the fact that someone followed up their claim with a source, without even being asked.
KryptKeeper
Take notes. This is how you discuss things on the internet or elsewhere. Not with arguments and insults, but with fact, logic, and reason.
SomeDetroitGuy
in these parts could easily afford a very nice house in a very nice suburb and send their kids to very nice schools, while easily having
BorisVee
Same in Canada, teachers are paid so well it kind of ridiculous. Starting salary of 60k most teacher I know make over 80k. Houses are $$ tho
SomeDetroitGuy
Around here, it's typical to start between $35k and $45k depending on the district and if you finish your Master's, get a few years in, make
SomeDetroitGuy
$60-70k a year. In those same neighborhoods, a 2,000 square foot 4 BR house is $300,000 or so.
Diolas
Saw a teacher on Ontario's sunshine list this year.
SomeDetroitGuy
enough money for a very, very nice livestyle.
WookieWookieWookie
It amazes me that these people seem to forget that suburbs exist. A lot of my co-workers bitch about housing here in Chicago. Move to the
WookieWookieWookie
Damn suburbs. There's tons of easy commuting options.
devmartel
Same here in most of Florida.
OddlyPacific
The salary quoted for two teachers is the salary of one teacher in San Diego if they have a master's degree.