Even IF we buy into the concept of fetal personhood (and we shouldn't), the right to bodily autonomy should still override it. If you can't force a person to donate tissue, blood, or organs to save somebody elses life then you certainly can't force a person to donate their entire body to function as an incubator to keep someone else alive. But of course none of this is about logic or uniform application of law, so fuck...
So start filing for evictions of unwanted pregnancies instead of getting abortions. If they're an individual person they need to pay rent, they can't just expect handouts.
If the poor woman had died during the miscarriage, these crazy, narrow-minded, conservative shitheads would put her dead body in jail. "SAVE THE FETUS!" What about the life of the mother who is carrying the fucking fetus? Anti-abortion shouters are so dumb, they need to be watered twice a week.
Remember that time they stole a woman's corpse because she died whilst pregnant and they forced the body to stay just alive enough to try to birth the child, and then tried to charge the family for the costs of their disgusting fetish.
So outrageous! Any judge, prosecutor, medical personnel, social worker, et al who participated in such an action ought to lose their professional license. So blatantly misogynist (and apparently racist to judge by the examples shown i this vid) and outside the realm of justice.
Kinda too bad, if you live there, because that's the reality of the US right now. Hopefully you find a coping mechanism that isn't too damaging for yourself or others.
That's part of the goal. The oligarchs want us to give up and disengage, so they're propping up every nutty religious bullshit movement to wear us out.
The thing is, they wouldn't even deny this. "Doctors killing babies" triggers them like crazy, but "babies starving", "children abused", "homeless because of medical bills" etc etc are all someone else's problem.
Here's the thing. Even if a fetus is a person, abortion is still ethical.. No one gets to use another person's body without consent. We call that rape, or slavery, or kidnapping depending on the situation. Person can't survive without my blood and I didn't want to give it? That person gets to die. Treat a fetus like every other person and abortion is completely moral. It's only if fetuses are extra-special or women aren't people at all that it becomes an issue, because people don't use others.
Nope. If the fetus is viable, and the pregnancy must end, usual standard of care is to try to save both, but the woman gets to decide when her pregnancy ends if she no longer wants to be pregnant. Late-term abortions with nothing wrong just don't happen. But in the theoretical case, the pregnancy person gets to choose. If induced labor could save both and is a viable option, I see no reason that wouldn't also be an option though. Let the woman and her doctor decide the best option.
To get to the point: Would you force a woman to get induced labor if her child is for example in the 38th week and viable but she wants to abort it? Not speaking of medical reasons risking the mother's life.
No, I would not, but your hypothetical scenario would also never, ever happen. No one aborts a full-term healthy fetus. But to play along, I would not step between that woman and her doctor; they would decide the safest way to end the pregnancy, which might include induction as an option, but it would not be forced.
These situations happen when the fetus is disabled, Down Syndrome for example. The mother needs to birth the child anyways, they just kill the baby beforehand in these situations. Shouldn't be allowed.
They are the intended target. But white women are sometimes being dragged into this BS as well. Like that white Christian lady in TX, where the fetus was brain-dead (or something like that), and the hospital refused to take it out.
As others have commented, it is about controlling women in general. But the racists especially want to punish minority women. And they don't care about the collateral damage to white Christian women, because they are women and don't deserve rights either.
"Woman charged with 137 counts of manslaughter when new rule says that unfertilized eggs are potentially people, each charge stems from a period according to medical records and her period tracking app which sells its data to local and federal law enforcement."
but they can't charge a man with the 100 MILLION counts of manslaughter per sperm in a wank, or the 99.999 million counts for only getting a woman pregnant with one baby.
"Florida woman indicted on new charges in Florida when she turned 18 and had not yet been impregnated. Prosecutors say by not already trying to have children she is pre-emptively aborting a living fetus by not having one inside her"
And denied her counsel, and ordered her to have a medical procedure against her will. I hope at a bear minimum she bankrupts every person and organization involved with lawsuits
Honestly it sounds like a violation of several rights. Least of all, I don't think you can have a surprise trial. Nothing about that sounds right. Also if she has no say in any part of it, why bother asking her anything at all? Looks like she was detained and denied legal counsel.
I have yet to meet any pro-life person who can argue why dead bodies have more rights to self-determination than a pregnant woman. Also, they really don't like when you point out that people should get a Child Tax Credit from the moment of conception, by their logic. (Well, they're fine until you make them realize this includes poor POCs. Then their bigotry kicks them in the cognitive dissonance.)
Absolutely. Dobbs opened a can of worms. A federal law to restore full reproductive freedom (not just regarding abortion) must be passed when Dems have another trifecta, even if that means modifying the manner of the filibuster or carving out an exception for protecting individual liberties.
It's my understanding that white women are primarily harassed with legal jeopardy over intentional abortions (which is abhorrent dont get me wrong) but non-white women are prosecuted over any medical evidence that a pregnancy existed and didn't produce a living child.
Cruelty itself -is- insane. There's a reason animal cruelty is a major red flag for a kid being a psychopath. A healthy human being in a functional society do not do that kind of cruelty. Drumpf is a symptom, not the disease.
Saying they are insane when they are not clinically insane is giving them an escuse for being cruel. I've known actually insane people. These are just terrible humans.
SoGrosslyIncandescent
Even IF we buy into the concept of fetal personhood (and we shouldn't), the right to bodily autonomy should still override it. If you can't force a person to donate tissue, blood, or organs to save somebody elses life then you certainly can't force a person to donate their entire body to function as an incubator to keep someone else alive. But of course none of this is about logic or uniform application of law, so fuck...
HighSorcerer
So start filing for evictions of unwanted pregnancies instead of getting abortions. If they're an individual person they need to pay rent, they can't just expect handouts.
Woogyface
are you great yet?
Arcadian1
That is so gross.
Lionanar
I was waiting for him to draw some attention to the fact that all these women are black.
USA is so fu*ked up that I think it is time to catagorize the country with Afghanistan, Somalia and North Korea.
StraightOnThroughTheChompers
If the poor woman had died during the miscarriage, these crazy, narrow-minded, conservative shitheads would put her dead body in jail. "SAVE THE FETUS!" What about the life of the mother who is carrying the fucking fetus? Anti-abortion shouters are so dumb, they need to be watered twice a week.
akafluffy
Remember that time they stole a woman's corpse because she died whilst pregnant and they forced the body to stay just alive enough to try to birth the child, and then tried to charge the family for the costs of their disgusting fetish.
GloveFullaVaseline
If you haven't already figured it out yet, I'll just let you know now that Florida will do everything it can to get you killed.
SirVG
Know what's funny about all of those cases he brought up? All black women. And I mean funny weird not funny ha ha.
DWolf
"We need to make her do c-section because she's costing us money just waiting there." -- insurers and hospital administrators
RIxspacexCK
republicans, making america grotesque allthetime
backrideup9
3 black women in dumfuckistan states being lllegally legally fucked by white people. May they all get the most painful for of rectal cancer.
ItsaBeemer
If that's not a crime against basic human rights, I don't know what the fuck is.
newsguycraigevans
ThE cOnStItUtIoN dOeN't SaY yOu HaVe ThAt RiGhT! - some shitty corrupt Florida judge
HolyFreakingToast
fuck the GOP. this is their playground.
Widgetboy
"There is not a constitutional right to counsel." YES THERE FUCKING IS. SIXTH AMENDMENT, MOTHER FUCKER. Sue them into the ground.
nelllybellly1
So outrageous! Any judge, prosecutor, medical personnel, social worker, et al who participated in such an action ought to lose their professional license. So blatantly misogynist (and apparently racist to judge by the examples shown i this vid) and outside the realm of justice.
Ttoften
Backwards ass country!
Detacheddavid
Another reason to hate Zoom.
newsguycraigevans
People insisted on voting Republican so here we are.
trinxter
I cannot deal with this much insanity.
rusrsdude
Kinda too bad, if you live there, because that's the reality of the US right now. Hopefully you find a coping mechanism that isn't too damaging for yourself or others.
Lampmonster
That's part of the goal. The oligarchs want us to give up and disengage, so they're propping up every nutty religious bullshit movement to wear us out.
echonite
Thats why I dont call it "pro-life", cus its not about the life, its "Pro-forced birth", cus that is literally where their concern starts and stops.
InboxMeYourHDGIFs
It's anti-choice.
xypotion
The thing is, they wouldn't even deny this. "Doctors killing babies" triggers them like crazy, but "babies starving", "children abused", "homeless because of medical bills" etc etc are all someone else's problem.
TinyBadger101
Here's the thing. Even if a fetus is a person, abortion is still ethical.. No one gets to use another person's body without consent. We call that rape, or slavery, or kidnapping depending on the situation. Person can't survive without my blood and I didn't want to give it? That person gets to die. Treat a fetus like every other person and abortion is completely moral. It's only if fetuses are extra-special or women aren't people at all that it becomes an issue, because people don't use others.
MoaningClock
Following your reasoning: Late-term abortion should always be illegal in your view, since the baby could survive outside the womb?
TinyBadger101
Nope. If the fetus is viable, and the pregnancy must end, usual standard of care is to try to save both, but the woman gets to decide when her pregnancy ends if she no longer wants to be pregnant. Late-term abortions with nothing wrong just don't happen. But in the theoretical case, the pregnancy person gets to choose. If induced labor could save both and is a viable option, I see no reason that wouldn't also be an option though. Let the woman and her doctor decide the best option.
MoaningClock
To get to the point: Would you force a woman to get induced labor if her child is for example in the 38th week and viable but she wants to abort it? Not speaking of medical reasons risking the mother's life.
TinyBadger101
No, I would not, but your hypothetical scenario would also never, ever happen. No one aborts a full-term healthy fetus. But to play along, I would not step between that woman and her doctor; they would decide the safest way to end the pregnancy, which might include induction as an option, but it would not be forced.
MoaningClock
These situations happen when the fetus is disabled, Down Syndrome for example. The mother needs to birth the child anyways, they just kill the baby beforehand in these situations. Shouldn't be allowed.
Saeraphym
The US totally isn't racist. /s Our top 3 examples of abhorrent treatment of women just happen to be women of color.
CASchoeps
Just a coincidence that these women are black, right?
imguronefive
They are the intended target. But white women are sometimes being dragged into this BS as well. Like that white Christian lady in TX, where the fetus was brain-dead (or something like that), and the hospital refused to take it out.
As others have commented, it is about controlling women in general. But the racists especially want to punish minority women. And they don't care about the collateral damage to white Christian women, because they are women and don't deserve rights either.
EmeRgencyDrD
Totally coincidental.
DefaOmega
I suspect this is why they want to get rid of birthright citizenship as well. Otherwise, just getting pregnant in the US would make a US citizen, no?
ItsaBeemer
Hahaha. Oh sweet summer child. I depends what colour it is of course.
xypotion
Coming soon: intra-uterine cameras, to confirm fetal skin color
ojisama
Thank you. Here have a maximum bleak award 🏅
DefaOmega
I mean, yeah, that's sadly ultimately what it's all about. Been awhile since I was called a sweet summer child though, so thanks!
ItsaBeemer
Nothing but love was meant by it.
DefaOmega
Haha that's the way I took it. Cheers!
UnoriginalPieceOfRepeatingShit
america is a joke without a punchline
Affray
Neuronyx
DwayneTheCrackJohnson
An unfunny version of The Aristocrats, and it just keeps going and going and going and
HarryDresdenIsMySpiritAnimal
Not being funny, but America's punchline is the line of immigrants queueing up to get punch by ICE rapists.
ItsaBeemer
Alright. You top that The Onion. I dare you.
ExTechOp
We passed beyond the satire horizon some time around 2016 and ever since, it has been impossible to top reality with attempted parody.
MechKelly
"Woman charged with 137 counts of manslaughter when new rule says that unfertilized eggs are potentially people, each charge stems from a period according to medical records and her period tracking app which sells its data to local and federal law enforcement."
akafluffy
but they can't charge a man with the 100 MILLION counts of manslaughter per sperm in a wank, or the 99.999 million counts for only getting a woman pregnant with one baby.
philmoregraves
"Florida woman indicted on new charges in Florida when she turned 18 and had not yet been impregnated. Prosecutors say by not already trying to have children she is pre-emptively aborting a living fetus by not having one inside her"
Goldensands
Satire is supposed to be unrealistic
ItsaBeemer
That sounds way too realistic.
pandemicmodedad
Isnt that what the heritage foundation is doing for school ages girls? Read somewhere their plans and threw up in my mouth.
tizme
Stop, stop, STOP! You’re giving them ideas. 😢
IgnisInvictus
... they pulled her into a zoom meeting 12 hours into labor?
What, and I cannot stress this enough, the actual fuck?
micuu
And denied her counsel, and ordered her to have a medical procedure against her will. I hope at a bear minimum she bankrupts every person and organization involved with lawsuits
TyrannusEquus
Honestly it sounds like a violation of several rights. Least of all, I don't think you can have a surprise trial. Nothing about that sounds right. Also if she has no say in any part of it, why bother asking her anything at all? Looks like she was detained and denied legal counsel.
IgnisInvictus
I had to look this shit up.
It's happened more than once. The one lady was 12 hours into labor before the hearing, and it was a 3 fucking hour hearing.
https://www.propublica.org/article/florida-court-ordered-c-sections
TyrannusEquus
This just screams willful violation of civil rights! I was a bastard cop and we couldn't question people in the middle of a medical procedure!
micuu
and now that I see my typo, I'm going to add that I hope a bear mauls everyone responsible for this. Fuck'em.
Jackalblade
Always choose the bear.
BabeAfett
It's not about protecting the fetus, it's about controlling women. Fuck these bastards.
cattlegrazer82
Actually, this opens up a pretty good loophole. Serve the fetus eviction papers. They have 30 days to vacate or they will be forcibly removed.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
I have yet to meet any pro-life person who can argue why dead bodies have more rights to self-determination than a pregnant woman. Also, they really don't like when you point out that people should get a Child Tax Credit from the moment of conception, by their logic. (Well, they're fine until you make them realize this includes poor POCs. Then their bigotry kicks them in the cognitive dissonance.)
DefinitelyaHumanNotanAlien
Controlling, and punishing women. It's all sparkling misogyny at the end.
akafluffy
no, sparkling would be better, it's flat misogyny in an unsealed bottle.
BabeAfett
Its actually just urine.
Frencheeseater
Bullshit laws or law enforcement to have a bad faith pretext to put Blacks in jail and then force labor : slavery 2.0 !
Frencheeseater
RobertAG25772
Absolutely. Dobbs opened a can of worms. A federal law to restore full reproductive freedom (not just regarding abortion) must be passed when Dems have another trifecta, even if that means modifying the manner of the filibuster or carving out an exception for protecting individual liberties.
OneMoreLime
Interesting how these laws are enforced primarily against people of color.
BabeAfett
I wouldn't say primarily, but definitely with more regularity.
OneMoreLime
It's my understanding that white women are primarily harassed with legal jeopardy over intentional abortions (which is abhorrent dont get me wrong) but non-white women are prosecuted over any medical evidence that a pregnancy existed and didn't produce a living child.
BabeAfett
Yep, I 100% agree with that assessment.
ExTechOp
Quick way to test what it is about is for the pregnant mother-to-be to drive down a carpool lane and see if she gets ticketed.
BabeAfett
Fucking right
RandomGuy12345678910
Or file for the child tax credit before they're born. Make the IRS (federal government) say that it's not a kid.
Affray
BabeAfett
Plus child support and cost of prenatal care for the mother. If women are just incubator, those require maintenance during pregnancy.
tupacshomie
yeahhedugit
And those bastards are clinically insane to do this.
DeliciousDelilah
They aren't insane. They know exactly what they are doing. The cruelty is the point.
yeahhedugit
They may know what they're doing, but they don't care. Hence, the insanity.
Goldensands
Cruelty itself -is- insane. There's a reason animal cruelty is a major red flag for a kid being a psychopath. A healthy human being in a functional society do not do that kind of cruelty. Drumpf is a symptom, not the disease.
DeliciousDelilah
Saying they are insane when they are not clinically insane is giving them an escuse for being cruel. I've known actually insane people. These are just terrible humans.