UndyingSolon
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Link: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pennsylvania-Awaits-First-Look-at-Congressional-Map-474478543.html
Long and short of it is, the election in the fall is going to look vastly different in Pennsylvania than it has for the past few years.
FP Edit: WOW this blew up. If you want more information on what Gerrymandering is and how to prevent/counteract it in your state, visit https://www.lobbyists4good.org/single-post/2017/01/23/Is-this-the-root-cause-of-our-political-dysfunction
Like I said in the comments, I don't care which side is doing the gerrymandering, it undermines the voting process and produces inaccurate voting results.
Oh and... Send fantasy art. I need inspiration for my D&D campaign.
heynsa
Maryland is the worst offender
demosthenes89
Yay PA! Now we just have to get them to pass legislation to let an independent body draw the maps in the future.
demosthenes89
https://www.fairdistrictspa.com/
dennydorko
PossiblyABananaButProbablyNot
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130712.png
Rocksnotch
Hello yes I live in PA and everytime I look at these charts I cry thank you have a wonderful day
UndyingSolon
You have a wonderful day, and go out and vote!
thatsmysecret
If only Maryland gave a shit
UndyingSolon
Look at my comment for NC
chugeknight
Awesome. Undo the damage conservatives and republicans have been doing since Reagan.
yikesimgur
Go home Delaware county, you're drunk.
doyouguysrememberpogs
Representing Delco in nola!
picante94
Typical Delco. But we're proud of it!
gakio12
Explain.
yikesimgur
gakio12
Thank.
amatureadult
Who told you?
UndyingSolon
2SP DelCo Lager /a/KnH8E
CmRock136
Heyyy I'm in Delco. And I'm not drunk. I think.
Cyzyk
Give it to Delaware so it's less confusing.
iAmLordBeer
Shit, MontCo was divided among 5 districts...
CmRock136
They had to divide the KoP mall up. It's too big.
MsDavidAttenborough
Woo delco
MofongoBalls
As a Chester county native I laughed too hard at this
KarlOkladek
Woo Chester County!!
yikesimgur
Howdy neighbor! I'm pretty much on the border of both!
MofongoBalls
Hello! I'm from oxford
yikesimgur
Concordville/WC area
FlatPlutoSociety
Yeah, but you can say that about anything at any time.
UndyingSolon
When isn't DelCo drunk? They even have a beer naked after them: http://www.2spbrewing.com/our-beers/
BuiltonSin
Can't even look at beer if you are underage, I might get the wrong ideas.
wrathofthekraken
Kinky
UndyingSolon
Good catch
StJiub
No one likes us, no one likes us, we don't care! We're from Delco, fucking Delco, no one likes us, we don't care!
FIDLAR
I think that chant is kinda corny
CmRock136
Delco, present!
ItsMeToddKraines
Yup, good old Delco.
picante94
Loud and proud Delco!
TheNameIsEaston
Only need 9 more
MrOsmo
To catch em all?
EternalFoodComa
I think the john oliver video also needs to be added here https://youtu.be/A-4dIImaodQ
wabash9000
I vote remove all districts. Everyone votes on the candidate they want and they distribute the seats to reflect party votes.
wabash9000
Highest vote candidates get the seats for their party.
rando84
Proportional representation would be great. Third parties could get a few seats to keep the major parties from being complacent.
Aanokint
Fantasy art? https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryLeviathans/ Check it. There's a whole plethora of subs dedicated to this stuff
UndyingSolon
Just got the alert that I got more comments, I'll check it out!
StormWingDelta
Now go state by state and do this kind of fix to them all. >:P
rando84
The Supreme Court is about to make a decision that might just do exactly that.
StormWingDelta
Going to be funny watching both parties whine and throw tantrums over it too. :P
imakeurglassesfoggy
As a democrat in md, please do md next!
malcolmisamazing
In Australia we have an government body who control all electoral matters with NO political interference http://www.aec.gov.au/
Munshi87
Best explanation I have seen was from John Oliver https://youtu.be/A-4dIImaodQ
UndyingSolon
Hadn't seen it, good one.
marymarymistressmary
I'm purple!
doomsdayaddams
Now please for NC!
flavivsaetivs
SC is dealing with it right now, appearantly.
drowninginthesouth
Isn't this in process now?
TCGreen
The Supreme Court is probably going to rule on it, but unlikely before the next election.
SaneBrain
The Supreme Court stayed the lower court and won't rule until after 2018 over.
bearmannn999
Amen
KingOfTheAnarchists
and OH!
UndyingSolon
If someone files the claim and it goes to SC, this would be a defended federal precedent.
ForgotMyOtherAcct
It wouldn't be federal, the actual supreme Court isn't weighing in afaik. It was the Pennsylvania state supreme Court. Unfortunately.
IAlwaysPost140Characters
No it won't. This case was decided in PA state SC and based almost entirely based on the PA constitution. There's little to extract to other
PsychicOctopus
Maybe the argument is whether it is outside the scope of the judiciary at all, in which case Fed SC may decide to hear it. Hard to tell
IAlwaysPost140Characters
By appealing to the SCOTUS they've exhausted their appeals process for this. SCOTUS tacitly approved the order that set the deadline already
PsychicOctopus
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, it hasn't gone to the US Supreme Court yet. (Unless I read the article wrong, but it said PA supreme Court)
5NoteHalf
NC is a true gerrymandering shitfest. I used to live there.
whippasnappa
I just left NC to go to Seattle. Yay for leaving hickville
flavivsaetivs
Live South of it, yeah it's basically a line through the middle of the state which has all the democratic voters in one district.
cuzitsthere
Still do... Shit blows
bustosoon
Gerrymandering is so bizarre (Euro here)
anotheroundplease
The concept is simple, but the application is a mess. The party in control gets to group geographic areas for fed. Elections. -leverage
anotheroundplease
That’s an explanation not advocacy either way. What asshat downvoted that?
Chaimgoldbergenstein
Well I mean you guys basically gerrymandered your country borders over the course of several hundred years so
whooshby
My previous job was drawing precinct lines in Mississippi. It was very interesting. We gave the optimal (keep communities together), 1/?
whooshby
2/? but politics moved the lines to get gambling passed. And we had to gerrymander to get more black officials elected. Even had to move
Branmaster4
If this was done for whites it would be national news.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Who do you think is drawing the lines? They purposely group the minorities together so they can only affect one district.
Branmaster4
White people bad.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I mean, the specific white people doing this are pretty bad, yeah.
whooshby
You could say it is. when you put black people in one precinct, you are making the other whiter.
PhotonicBoom
It's done for whites in nearly every case in the southeast.
whooshby
3/3 a line to keep an ex-mother-in-law out of a legislator's district.
ialwayssaywhyiupvotestuff
You had to gerrymander the gerrymanderers.
ILikeCuteGifsAndICannotLie
Why would that matter?
whooshby
If you are asking about the ex-MIL, because she would get all her friends and neighbors to vote against him.
UndyingSolon
The ex-mother-in-law one may be the only justifiable reason I've heard...
JailtimeBillC16
How did it feel moving lines?
whooshby
It kept changing with all the proposals, so it didn't feel like a final effect.
torpthorkertoo
chamilitary
Was this a GIS job?
whooshby
Yes!
chamilitary
That sounds pretty cool. All i ever did was digitizing and map editing. Super boring stuff compared to what you did.
sunyudai
None of that *should* happen. I know it does. I think we need a standard algorithm that is not in any way weighted by party or demographic..
KeeleonOhms
Just draw straight lines. Squares dont care whats inside them.
Delathi
Then you get 100,00 people in one square and then Fred the cattle rancher in another square with his very own member of the House of Reps
sunyudai
groups by population cluster, divides to keep numbers roughly the same, and is aware of geographic and political boundaries.
sunyudai
Oh, and is applied nationwide.
MichaelDello
How were the new boundaries determined?
WhichIsIt
They just outlined each colored section exactly. Then those lines formed the boundaries.
rando84
according to nonpartisan districting principles; compactness, similar population size, trying to keep communities together, etc.
PresidentProTempore
Please do this for Texas. My district (22) is a gerrymandering piece of shit and it's not even the worst one.
UndyingSolon
Get the bats under the bridge in Austin to file a claim against the state. Everyone loves those bats.
DonnieDangles87
God damn those scrotum winged, flying doggo shitters.
UndyingSolon
Last time I was in Austin my ex wanted to take me to see the bats. Turns out there was a festival on the bridge to celebrate them 1/2
UndyingSolon
Paid $20 in parking and $60 in entry. It was so loud the bats never came out. Thousands of drunk, disappointed Texans. Horrible.
PenisShapedPoops
District 1 representing! Er...Gohmert. I've heard this district was blue before they added my city to it.
LightofNuitari
In the Court's statement after the ruling they explained the language in the state's Constitution they based the decision on. Apparently 1/2
RdizzyC
Certain supreme courts will be filled to the brim with bias though, don't forget that.
LightofNuitari
most states have similar or the same language in their own constitutions protecting voter rights. If someone opens a case, you've got a 2/3
LightofNuitari
good chance of stopping gerrymandering there too. 3/3
BuiltonSin
Two thirds chance sounds great!
manimatr0n
This entire state is fucked. By all rights we're deep blue.
TagMan212
And by all rights California is Deep Red. The vast majority of counties vote red but the big coastal cities control everything.
PresidentProTempore
Land area /=/ population
DonnieDangles87
Just because there's 40 food trucks in a mile radius of you doesn't mean Texas is blue.
manimatr0n
Born and raised and currently live in West Texas. The urban blue population is larger than the rural.
82kets
The DFW suburbs might disagree with you
marsgoose
Despite all efforts TX is far from fucked, mostly because there are enough rural areas to balance out cities.
marsgoose
Also why we should all be supporting localizing govt. cities want to be liberal, rural areas don't why can't we have both?
marsgoose
Oh right because everyone wants power.
boskonetwo
No, we aren't. Republicans win the popular vote by 10 or more percent.
manimatr0n
Voter suppression is a hell of a drug. Go check the electoral maps and results before and after Karl Rove got a hold of them.
boskonetwo
Yea, ok, right.
newsguycraigevans
And that's what's wrong with Texas
ItsUncleSam
Okay
anotheroundplease
Yup - no state income tax, businesses moving in, and a higher standard of living than NY, Cali, or MI. What a cesspool.
XoxSmotpokerxoX
But still Texas
imgurdemocratcirclejerk
Sounds pretty nice.
meltingpine
This is a good start but ideally just get rid of districts and do proportional representation instead of FPTP
Felman
You'd have to amend the state constitution. Assuming you mean just for Pennsylvania. If you mean the US, federal constitution
MacaroniDeathFork
Its crazy how both parties do this... but hey, democracy!
rando84
It's like bribery--poisonous to democracy regardless of who is doing it. The faster we get rid of it across the board, the better.
Woffenhorst
Well, the US *does* rank 21st on the democracy index.
IamAMON
Well it's a democratic REPUBLIC, so that changes things a bit
Woffenhorst
So are the top 10 countries on that list.
IamAMON
Oh. Never really thought about the existence of a list like that, so I didn't know
Baalzak
I love you for that change of direction based on new information. Please stay awesome.
segfaultytowers
Fun fact on some indexes NC isn't a democracy anymore. We're up with pseudo authoritarian states
PsycheClone
"Yeah but it's first in the America rules index!!" - Study and research conducted and funded by America Rules LLC™
MimiBeast
UndyingSolon
I would say One Party does it more than any others... But if the Other Guys did it I'd be pissed off about them undermining their platform.
4254
Yes, but demographic information, and computing power, allowed a much more lop-sided gerrymander for the 2010-11 districts, than previously.
MyLabrum
At first I wondered how bad it was. After the before and after picture, there's no way you can say the original map was fair.
ZackPageWood
Shape makes things look bad but it’s the efficiency gap that is the true marker of partisan gerrymandering.
cousteau
Or they just shoved "make it look good" into the gerrymandering optimization algorithm.
MyNameWillBeSirFred
As a district 10 native my whole life I can’t wait to be rid of Marino.
5NoteHalf
Ever wonder how Mike Pence won Indiana governor? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Indiana_congressional_districts.png
delecti
Compared to some of the examples I've seen, and without being familiar with Indiana's population, that looks incredibly reasonable.
TinnyOctopus
It isn't. Urban center Bloomington (strong blue) has its county split between two districts. City of Elkhart is split out of the county of
TinnyOctopus
Elkhart. Indianapolis gets a district to itself basically on th city limits. Kokomo is also pulled from its county. Basically, any time a
TinnyOctopus
city votes in a different district from the rest of its county , that's an indication that something's fucky.
buckeyes995
He was elected in a statewide election though, gerrymandering played no role in his election
Randombastard360
Only 49 more to go
microcactus
Yeah, I'm tired of North Dakota being gerrymandered as fuck.
CaptainDickSimmons
Same for Indiana. My hometown is in two Congressional districts, IN-2 and IN-5.
Felman
Micro was being sarcastic. The entirety of Dakota is a single district.
rando84
Do they gerrymander the state legislature districts? I'd imagine the state is so red and so sparsely populated they don't bother.
CaptainDickSimmons
I know, but I'm being serious. I almost voted in the wrong district a few years ago.
Felman
Yeah, God damn Montana with its single district. Fuck it!
Cheomesh
Ah, is it actually Equitable? I mean it's less squiggly, but for all I know there's still Shady Shit (tm) going on there.
5NoteHalf
It's slightly less tilted. It's still somewhat unbalanced, favoring the Republicans, but less so than before.
Cheomesh
Pretty much the only way they can hold on to real power at this point.
5NoteHalf
True. If it were a true popular vote election, Republicans would have a much, MUCH harder time of it. McConnell has even stated they've 1/2
5NoteHalf
been carefully crafting it that way for YEARS to cling to power and support things nobody really wants. (He didn't phrase it that way) 2/2
5NoteHalf
Actually, he kinda DID phrase it that way, some to think of it.
PekkaKarhunen
PA is roughly 50-50 Dem/GOP. Prior to the redraw, its congressional districts were 6(D)-12(R). New maps with the same vote would be 8-10.
Arcanum3000
That's somewhat expected due to Democrats being more heavily concentrated geographically. Many districts are likely to be more competitive.
PekkaKarhunen
Right, due to Democratic clustering, the GOP still has a ~2 seat advantage. A 6 seat advantage was pushing it, though.
PekkaKarhunen
As a Dem, I don't want a map that "favors" my party- just a fair fight.
doyouevengeneratelift
it was actually 13-5. One of our reps stepped down
PekkaKarhunen
Thank you for the correction!
DuckPlanetKing
But... how are republicans supposed to win if they are not allowed to cheat??
CorruptedJester
Gerrymandering isn't illegal though
rando84
I'm sure someone said the same thing about bribery when it was being outlawed. If the court rules it's illegal under constitutional (1
rando84
interpretation (state or federal), then it's illegal. The courts have struck down plenty of antidemocratic practices. (2
rando84
See Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964), for example.
anotheroundplease
But illegal how. In this case PA’s constitution. There are a lot of things that may be immoral, but do not happen to be illegal.
anotheroundplease
You mean like ballot stuffing for dead people by Dems?
Chaimgoldbergenstein
Shh, if they notice that they might notice the illegal immigrants using dead social security numbers; can't have the public seeing that, no.
wesski84
No. Like colluding with/being subservient to a foreign nation to undermine a presidential election. Which has happened.
anotheroundplease
Yup, Hillary paying the Russian and the FBI using it for FISA Warrants would be collusion. Example of many sources to follow.
anotheroundplease
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/memo-fbi-used-tainted-steele-dossier-paid-for-by-hillary-clinton-as-reason-to-spy-on-trump/
anotheroundplease
How about a pay to play for Hillary and the Russians? Pretty corrupt to me
Wauphale
"The new map likely gives Democrats a better shot" and "approved in a 4-3 decision, with four Democratic justices backing it"
rando84
A legislature that's permanently rigged itself into power is when the court should step up and intervene--there's no legislative solution1/2
rando84
by definition. Gerrymandering is banana republic style electioneering in the eyes of every other Western democracy. 2/2
TCGreen
And yet they didn't gerrymander it to give Democrats an unfair advantage. They maid it fair to both sides.
PresidentProTempore
I mean, if it has better representation then Pennsylvania was more Democrat to begin with.
fleacollerindustry
They should have done what California did: have a agensy outside of the purvey of any party redraw the lines, then have ppl vote on it.
Arcanum3000
As I understand it, that's what the court did. They gave it to an outside electoral scholar to redraw.
Wauphale
No district lines would be the most equitable.
thornus67
An Act of Congress has mandated districts since the 1940s or so.
UndyingSolon
Also, since electoral votes are counted once the divisiveness of the two party system will always buck back and forth. Runoff would be best.
UndyingSolon
Arguable... If PA were to ever move from a winner-take-all system, the districts would be more equitable.
shinydev
The GOP was given a chance to do it again and they made the second most inequitable map in PA history.
rando84
Shitty, but you almost have to appreciate that level of audacity.
shinydev
Almost.
thunderfromoverunder
Those would be the four democratic justices appointed by the executive branch. Don't act like they appeared out of thin air just for this.
Wauphale
I could've sworn this was true, but for all but one, they're elected. https://ballotpedia.org/Pennsylvania_Supreme_Court
thunderfromoverunder
We'll, that's what I get for making smartass comments based on assumptions. Thanks for researching on my behalf.
PresidentProTempore
This little comment thread was a gem of sensibility in an otherwise hostile world of political discourse. Thank you both!
halfswing
From "ridiculously rigged in Republican favor" to "slightly less rigged in Republican favor" but I guess progress is progress
UndyingSolon
It's a baby step, but one with a federal precedent from a Supreme Court with a GOP filled majority is a big ass baby step.
[deleted]
[deleted]
halfswing
I never said they didn't, nice projecting.
rando84
Let's get rid of it everywhere. Seems to be a lot fewer national Republicans opposing it (props to Schwarzenegger for leading the charge)
cousteau
Or computers are so advanced now that you can optimize gerrymandered layouts without it looking obvious.
TheLurkerWhoLurks
That's exactly what they did here. This map is more favorable to the Dems than the Dem's own proposed Gerrymander.
lfcnpk123
“Drawn” up by the PA Supreme Court...Republicans said it was BS and wanted it brought to the US Supreme Court...Justice Alito shut it down.
KirchoffsVoltageLaw
Hey I'm all for a governor that is pro planned parenthood and net neutrality.
pilates4hotties
Yeah, man, it's always cool to cheat if you win.
MyNameWillBeSirFred
Well wolf isn’t without issues but he’s sooo much better than the republican field. I’m still hoping that Lamb beats Saccone and embarrasses
MyNameWillBeSirFred
(2/2) Trump enough that he won’t come back to PA soon
KirchoffsVoltageLaw
Yep
thiswillonlyhurtabit
Having been born in PA the new districts is much more fair
chelsidagger
I agree, I grew up there and this is a much more objective distribution of districts.
tpanyS
Tell that to the republicans here bitching already that it's unfairly democratic lol.
rando84
Seriously, how dare people elect their representatives in fair elections
chamilitary
All districts everywhere should be drawn randomely in equal parts. Only way to make anything fair
segfaultytowers
As cool as that would be, there are some districts that have to be drawn to protect marginalized protected groups: see NC district 12
Arcanum3000
Not randomly. The purpose is to elect people to represent the population. It's reasonable to, for instance, group several similar 1/
Arcanum3000
small communities into one contiguous district. They'll get someone who represents their interests (in theory). The problem with 2/
YoureWaifuAShit
that presupposes that people elect people like them because people like them share their interests.
Arcanum3000
gerrymandering is the opposite: Communities are split up and parts are included in districts where they will be permanently in the 3/
Arcanum3000
minority. It deliberately takes away their representation. 4/4