maximilianfragglebottom
110273
4124
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Nov 21, 2020 6:31 PM
maximilianfragglebottom
110273
4124
94
LeutAldoRaine
My parents told me I needed a degree and constantly said it doesn't matter what it's in. Like it's automatically a ticket to a better life.
mardukkur
Nothing's automatically a ticket to a better life but the college wage premium is real, it's big, and it's not particularly degree-dependent
unsolicitedadvice
For a while there, it was basically true. They just couldn't see the future where it would no longer be true. It was an odd blip in time.
whitewater0034
It used to be the fact that you were seen to have the ability to do such a thing that secured some jobs.
RandomName24601
I was told that no matter what, I should not get a degree in computers or IT, that field would be too saturated to get a job
TASKontrol
I was told an A+ certification was all that was required for an entry level $35,000/year job, and by the time I graduated it was "useless".
infernalcombustionengine
It could probably put you on a a path to that, but unlikely any course will walk you straight into those numbers without being able to1/
infernalcombustionengine
Demonstrate professional competencies. I did an a+ many moons ago. 2/
DarkwingDuc
For many of us, we were the first generation in our families to go to college. Our parents DIDN’T KNOW what to tell us to major in. We will.
mangrovia
My parents never finished college and will never comfortably retire. My brother and I are very successful with art and music degrees.
mangrovia
Not bragging, but at least finishing opened up a ton of doors for potential careers
endtransmission365
This is a very good point! I can relate to this.
yallmfsneedjesus
This is very insightful. Both my parents went and gave me and my sisters great advice.
MarshallDaemon
Yeah, I am very adamant about this to the younger people.
Problemwoodchuck
Yup. College is about networking as much as the education and if you have to work 2 jobs to afford it you won't have time to network.
IATTM
This hits home.
Kilroy115
My favorite is the fact that there’s a nationwide teacher shortage, and people cry about it, but no one wants to make changes to give
Kilroy115
New people an incentive to be a teacher. And, as a teacher, as much as I care for my students... better pay or incentive is nice too
sheblindedmewithscience
YES. I'm from Oklahoma, and they had a big teacher strike a couple of years ago for better pay, and our governor said they were "acting 1/
sheblindedmewithscience
like spoiled teenagers who want a new car" since they were holding out for a 10k raise instead of accepting 5k. It's ridiculous. Most of 2/
sheblindedmewithscience
them were working one or two other jobs outside of teaching. You can't be your best self/teacher if you are burning out and exhausted. 3/
sheblindedmewithscience
Even though my training is not in teaching, after a few years of working in my field and saving money, I have considered teaching high 4/
SenseiTheDefender
Unfortunately, higher education decisions must be made through a financial lens now.
spinbutton3
They always were. But the ridiculous push to get students to take on loans was terrible. I hope they wipe it all
SenseiTheDefender
I skated through college with average tuition around $1,000/semester, fortunately no student debt. I don't think I had to consider $ much
pleaseuseotherdoor
And before the age of sexual consent, ability to vote, drink or rent a vehicle.
Capnrory
It seems absurd to me that the standard path is to let children who have only lived in a single town make life defining decisions at 17
iputthefiresout
I also remember having the circular conversation with a high school advisor "don't do student loans you'll never pay them off" 'then I 1/
iputthefiresout
can't go to college' "but you need to go to college" 'then I need student loans' "Oh don't do student loans" '......' 2/2
DreamingOfDistantShores
"Have you tried not being poor?"
albumeatingtoiletu
Grants? Scholarships? Even student loans are ok if you only spend what you have to and pay a large portion back ASAP. Teacher's advice to me
IAimtoMisbehaveNotLikeThatOtherSpacePirate
I got a $21,000 scholarship to American -- would have still had over $80K in student loans if I had gone for four years.
RogueAvenger
Grants & scholarships aren't guaranteed though. I was in the top 10% of my class & got 0 scholarships because competition was so high
albumeatingtoiletu
Really? That's surprising, I guess competition varies depending on where you are.
evilspock
My brother did HVAC. I went to college. I make 4x what he does. So there's value there for some fields. But no, a liberal arts degree ...
evilspock
... isn't your ticket to the big bucks. If you are going into medical or law or engineering, it makes sense.
mardukkur
Not really: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html
mardukkur
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/22/see-how-liberal-arts-grads-really-fare-report-examines-long-term-data
Nbdycares
Mechanical Engineer here. My job is excruciatingly boring, but I do make good money. I think about walking away from the field every day.
Nbdycares
Also, I paid back my student loans in 2 years.
evilspock
And yes, it's insanely expensive. Can't help you there...
ZombieZooZombieZoo
You can make pretty decent money with a liberal arts degree, it's just a lot harder to accomplish
MenloPart
I got a B.A. and then a B.S. I paid off my student loans, but otherwise I am struggling. I haven't been great at fixing my car or things
MenloPart
around the house, so I don't know how well trades would work out for me, either.
sordatos
What is really outstanding is every generation apparently thinks that generational friction is something new.
whitewater0034
Ok Boomer. /s
HylianFox
Kids these days!
DurendaI
I'm an hvac tech that is going to school and wants to be a treasury agent... This kinda feels weird.
Sulla20118625
Get a degree or else you’ll be flipping burgers the rest of your life. Fast forward to the Great Recession where some Wall Street folks 1/
Sulla20118625
2/ Dumped McDonalds job applications onto the heads of Occupy Wall Street
Snarknado
Did they really?
BeckyLookAtHerButt
Yeah, I never heard the "get any degree." I heard "What are you going to do with your life?"
AmandaCANZED
My parents were boomers. My dad was a butcher and so proud of me when I became a meat cutter in a restaurant.
szepasszony
How DARE you get an education that isn't helpful at making rich people richer!
rhetoricIjustmether
Oh, it hasn’t changed. The shit I get when I say that my daughters can decide on college or another route for a career is the same.
dart223
Here too. My daughter has amazing work ethic for a 21 year old and a solid good history with highest references. Im proud of her.
ace5762
I got a physics degree from a top university, and I -still- only barely managed to get skilled labour on that basis. I got lucky.
MofongoBalls
Pretty much word for word my parents, teachers, school counselor told me
mythology333
I believed it, and got a masters degree in religion (focused on mythology).
pizzapartyhard
MA in philosophy here.
yallmfsneedjesus
Oooo i always want to ask and absolutely no snark in this question. What job did you envision having?
pizzapartyhard
I was planning on continuing through for the PhD (almost did) and becoming a professor. I ended up dropping out while I was writing my
pizzapartyhard
dissertation and now I teach middle school.
yallmfsneedjesus
You should finish the diss!!!
yallmfsneedjesus
I always wanna know and im not being snarky. What job or career did you envision having with this degree?
mythology333
Was going to continue to my doctorate and be a professor. Then my mums diagnosis became terminal and her passing broke me.
yallmfsneedjesus
So sorry to hear that. I hope yoube found some healing since then
Anonymous0199846
hahaha sucker. Now you have to kiss a sleezy persons ass to get a job. Totally unlike every other profession in this meritocracy. ...
mythology333
That is, probably the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me about my degree.
Anonymous0199846
You really aren't much worse off than any soft skills career anywhere. When you can't objectively prove your value on demand you have to.
Anonymous0199846
convince an ignorant blatherskate of your value. It's exhausting and frustrating and it sucks. If you DO have a hard skill then you still
Anonymous0199846
have to convince them of your value as they will pretend what you do is actually very easy if anyone studies it for just a minute.
Bornee
Start saying crazy thing about well known facts and the history channel will have a job for you.
mythology333
I do have a lot of crazy hair
mactoid
I’m a boomer and I don’t think I ever said that. My son got an Econ degree on his own!
heteroscedastic
Ventilation and air filtration is really important right now, but I feel like I'm missing some important point... ?
samanthadlcruz
you have to weigh the cost of a degree & the potential earnings difference from that degree - most colleges have priced them beyond reason.
martinomander5
Depends on what degree. Medical, Law, Engineering degrees can be good investments. English or Philosophy degrees less so.
mardukkur
Not true. Liberal arts majors catch and surpass professionals & STEM majors over their working lives.
MagicalScientist
I'm currently being told to get any degree because employers look to see if you were able to put the effort into getting one...
Secsletariat
There are still a number of jobs which list degrees as a requirement or enable you to fast-track to a higher position, but that aren't >>
Secsletariat
>> too specific in the exact degree. The trick is in finding & being good enough for them now. Some finance bigshots had them before COVID.
SienRaak
I was told that too.
tisterlynne1985
If the employer footing the bill do it! I did.
wherethehorriblethingsare
So you're saying my degree in Nasal Excavation is worthless?
amateurlapse
Consider me an omphaloskeptic
Lyllii
And you nose it
finitetoast
This is such an undervalued comment +1
marteney1
Only slight more so than Underwater Basket Weaving.
shank1104
I've almost finished my degree in Left-Handed Puppetry.
lookitupyourself
Wow. Someone's an overachiever. Wish I had done that. I went with starfish psychology.
thedarkcanuck
Not in certain Thai villages
SenselessSentiments
... story time?
Novawitch
That’s the exception. Nasal evacuation is the new liposuction
BeckyLookAtHerButt
Gold Digger by any other name still smells...
euphoricopportunity
It's not the R.O.A.D. to happiness, but that sounds like a profitable MD specialization. You remove botflies from sinuses, right?
pfunk81
More than my degree in potato hanging.
CrazedDrifter
That major is a great pick.
lookitupyourself
Rule 34?
Prinzka
Don't you mean Naval Escalation?
DoughnutJimmy
Covid testers in your area want to meet you.... https://imgur.com/jXgjrSg
xmaneds
fantastic comeback, excellent comment!
KevorkianScarf
Are they hot and/or single? I hear that’s a requirement for some reason
TinySnek
Can confirm, I am.
LyraTheLycan
Will 'high temperature and isolating' do?
KevorkianScarf
PaintedSlate
grandmathinksimsatan
As someone in a trade I do significantly better than my collage friends but I have a feeling it will pay off better for them in the long run
grandmathinksimsatan
I mostly mean physically
InvisibleMan86
Maybe. Folks with some of those degrees tend to backload their pay (management positions, lifetime earnings, &c m. Good luck either way!
DreamingOfDistantShores
Yeah, most accounts I've heard say trade work pays very well but it's a trade-off for damaging your body more in the same time.
DreamingOfDistantShores
Though I don't know how the benefits are for trade unions, maybe that balances it out?
grandmathinksimsatan
Depends on the trade I guess. I don’t have a union but my benefits are good. I’ve had complaints of my rough hands though lol
grandmathinksimsatan
They’ve been described as “crunchy” as a 24 year old this is disheartening and a crude reminder of what this work will do to my body ?
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
You know why trades are the way to home ownership? UNIONS.
LovesToSpooge517
You’re not getting the attention you deserve for this comment
CongratsYouAreHereNow
i bet some robot is getting it somewhere, for half the price. on a serious note, fuck robots and fuck self driving cars
DanielArcaris
Are you Will Smith?
L0rdAv0n
except the capenters union, or at least in my area. you'll work 6 months a year if you're lucky.
Wildmare
Only work during certain times of the year or the union restricts work hours?
toast667
A lot of trade unions slow down in the fall and winter.
Geekyre
Posts talks about hvac as im on the list for apprenticeship for sheetmetal. Although I'm hoping to do more structural than hvac
Stormycakes
You right. Unless you live in Texas where just saying the word will get your ass canned faster than you can say “at will employment”
ezzmann
Local 100!
martineb72
Nope, lack of trained employees to suppress the value. I looked into the trades in the 80s and early 90s. Crap pay.
IndianaNeedsMoreCorn
In Indiana, you go through a union apprenticeship and you earn an associates degree in the process. You earn while you learn, too.
edward8767
I'm in UK, did a software development apprenticeship for a living wage employee (£9 hr), now I'm doing a Master's degree, they're paying
edward8767
University is a rip off. I'd never pay for a degree now, not worth it, if I hadn't gotten this I'd learn a trade
rayhatesu
all while making at least $14+/hr (by now) on up from PreCub(Pre-Apprentice) to Journeyman.
bohjeenie
As it should be, you’re doing productive work after all.
morelikeconsham
That's not really the reason. It's more because of the content of the post. That an entire generation was told that not having a degree was
morelikeconsham
a sure path to poverty and that having literally any degree guaranteed a comfortable life style. The trades hemorrhaged labor while degree
morelikeconsham
requiring jobs experienced a huge surplus. Today, there are so many people with degrees that employers are literally offering positions
morelikeconsham
without pay that are actually being competed for, while tradesmen have a relatively easier time finding high paying jobs with little
morelikeconsham
competition. Yeah, the unions help, but being an engineer guaranteed a comfortable lifestyle even just 30 years ago. Even today, being an
wodansring
THIS
DabNaggit
Entered the trade as a union painter...HUGE mistake. I've never seen such lazy, wasteful workers encouraged by management to be that way.
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
Typical gaslighting, the "lazy union" is a lie as old as organized labor. Of course a boss wants people working themselves to death.
DabNaggit
This was my personal experience. I was there and you were not. NOBODY was working themselves to anything.
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
If you're paid to do a job like "install this electrical panel", saying no to running extra circuits isn't "lazy" it's "not doing free work"
DabNaggit
In union construction work, workers are paid by the hour not the job.
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
And there are surely deadlines too, so what makes you think your determination of "lazy" is more accurate than the contract?
szepasszony
THANK YOU.
Myrectumhousesasmallindonesianfamily
Unions these days are terrible. Sauce: I've been in several.
dentros1
Which ones?
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
You know what's worse than a low quality Union? Not having any unionization. Mine gets us lower med premiums and higher raise pools.
szepasszony
I'd rather have a terrible union than a terrible boss/company. I get a vote in changing the union.
jaypuck
This isn't necessarily true. You can make a perfectly livable wage as a non union tradesperson. I know for machinists, the difference is 1/2
jaypuck
$30/hr union and $25/hr non-union. Sure, there's a difference, but it's not like a non union machinist can't afford a house. 2/2.
NutellaElephant
For now. The union is still propping up your wage, you think the $25/hr is just cuz you’re so special?
pmrob90
This seems like an argument made in bad faith. Unions have very little power to negotiate. Being able to get members an actual living wage1/
NutellaElephant
The only reason for a union is power to negotiate by organizing labor. At least in history, modern corruption notwithstanding.
pmrob90
/2 is one of the few remaining benefits of being unionized.
jaypuck
I should add this is in my area and a rough estimate. YMMV.
Yepthosearebees
Private wages are higher than they would be because they need to compete with unions
WhoYouGonnaCallGhostNappa
Beat me to it
DaveTheScientist
Exactly.
HumanBlooper
1/2 yea but after benefits and dues are paid into it averages out, I'm not downing unions and have worked both but in my experience unions
NutellaElephant
And only certain states honor those unions now. Guess which ones?
AccountCreatedToUpvoteDogs
Every state has to honor a union but in 26 States they don't require you to pay dues which weakens unions
mardis
Well?
worldwithoutrockets
"Something something liberal hellholes, fuck California" probably
thanatos777
The problem is you have to make a decision now for what job you're going to have starting in four years for the next 30 years after that. 1/
thanatos777
So, something that is extremely lucrative at the moment may not be by the time you're out of college; see: lawyers in the early 00s, 2/
WarKittyKat
Yup. I'm one that fell for the lawyer thing. Got a philosophy degree with law school as a plan, and then when I was done it was
thanatos777
truck drivers, etc. 3/3
Capnrory
and you usually make that decision as a 17 year old with no experience in anything apart from school
ValtenHeldenhammer
You need some luck or good networking skills to get by on "any degree, doesn't matter what it is." Because, that is a thing to a degree
override367
not really, statistically literally any degree is likely to result in a better paying job than no degree, but networking... ees
override367
ANY_DEGREE puts you ahead of NO_DEGREE for random office jobs, but getting in on the ground floor typically requires networking
override367
but you can do a LOT OF NETWORKING in college.
override367
if you graduate with 40 fellow college students on Linkedin, you'll probably be able to find work
greatcanine
If you get a degree that’s in demand you don’t need luck or connections. If you get a Lib Arts degree you fucked up.
mardukkur
Liberal arts majors out-earn professionals over their working lifetime.
Dustorn
Cannot confirm. Have a tech degree, definitely still need the luck and connections.
drcurlyfat
To be fair, I've run into a ceiling at work a few times simply for not having a degree. My internal application wouldn't be considered.
Pyranamus
Yup. I just graduated with a BS in Chem Eng class of 2020 and just got hired full time 6 months after. It’s rough rn
floydly
networked my way to a job studying spiders and a career in academics. Make friends, be helpful, be honest when your struggling. It works.
LuIu
So, you're saying that subject is not important...to a degree, to a degree?
number2commenter
Thats the right angle to look at it
idonthaveanyideawhatthehelliamtalkingabout
there is some truth in that.. to a degree.
HavelTh3Rock
to a degree
imguracoon
To a certain degree.
iMcFly
Let’s just agree to degree.
AmCow
To a certain degree
DeadyBearr
God my friend hired at a private equity firm as a financial analyst and his degree is in communications. He's very likeable.
tisterlynne1985
That's some shitty advice...as you said is all about networking increase your skill set and adjust to the market. No one will look out 4 u.
ValtenHeldenhammer
What part suggested that it's advice?
tisterlynne1985
Not your reply the op one
ZombieZooZombieZoo
"It's not what you know, it's who you know"
XuncuTheTiger
This is true. I am in management, and my BA degree? Art.
RodYung
It's not who you know it's who knows you
onlymostofthetime
meh sometimes. in my professional life I've met and worked with some people who are much higher in seniority than me. those people would not lift a finger to help me with anything, despite praising my work ethic. I would agree it depends on who you know, but unfortunately you may not get that job or raise if the oligarchs don't like you.
ValtenHeldenhammer
I do find this is finally becoming less and less common, but it's still very much a thing.
IdUpvoteYouButYoureAt69
"Who you know gets you the job. What you know keeps you there."
Uwonsumfig
“A foot in the door is a dick in the wh...” wait. Nvm
ChiLLeCheeze
For the average person, yes.
ZombieZooZombieZoo
I'd agree with in most cases
greatcanine
True. It starts in h.s. - if you take it seriously and get high grades you’ll get into college. If you fuck around, it’s your fault.
Cloud26Strife
I graduated Valedictorian from high school. I went to undergrad on a full scholarship and graduated magna cum laude. Still unemployed...
ZombieZooZombieZoo
You can still get into college, it might not be a very good college.
12SecondSpidey
It definitely is now, but wasn’t then. My mom has a degree to teach 8th grade history, but in legal for a hotel conglomerate
Renzworth
Any degree here. Doesn't work. Not. One. Bit.
bohjeenie
First day at my EEE degree, head of school announced we’re all smart for picking a course with a guaranteed job. Graduated ‘08...1/.
greatcanine
EEE?
AnythingMuchShorter
Extra electrical engineering, or maybe electrical engineer engineering, where you design electrical engineers.
greatcanine
Electrical engineers are 78% code, 12% wiring and the other 32% is coffee.
AnythingMuchShorter
That math is not quite within the margin of error, but in practice it didn't cause me immediate problems so I'm going to push it.
BlastFX
Seriously? All my EE friends were getting job offers before they even graduated. I guess it's regional or something.
AnythingMuchShorter
I got an ME and EE, and I had a job before graduation and now make 200k 7 years on. I have never gone unemployed.
AnythingMuchShorter
I did get laid off by walt disney imagineering once, but I had another job lined up by my end date.
gifFix
Possibly same thing as japan where if u don't get job at one of these job fair deals near the end of the course then you're basically fucked
gifFix
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-japan-lost-generation/
greatcanine
This is my experience. Engineering is in high demand.
bohjeenie
3 years unemployed, minimum wage 1 month contract jobs and dish washing. Finally made it, didn’t need the degree (but it helps).
bohjeenie
My advice is, find a job you wanna do, get in the company at the unskilled level and find a degree to do part time that helps.
bohjeenie
A Degree only pays off on higher tier pay negotiations, either that or go straight to doctorate. Bachelors useless for job hunting with 0 Xp
bohjeenie
Larger companies may help or sponsor you in this endeavor. You can always leave after, as these larger places are harder to progress in
ValtenHeldenhammer
Getting in at the unskilled level is almost not a thing anymore. You need a bachelors to sweep the floor most places.
ValtenHeldenhammer
I found its more a matter of setting expectations in the dirt and dropping off resumes in person wherever possible yo get the first job.
narcoleptiKnickers
By luck and good networking skills, you mean your father introducing you to his business partners.
ValtenHeldenhammer
Thats a small piece of the same thing, but no not really
thelonehedgehog
Thankfully I got lucky, I've a a veterinary nursing degree, got into sales and now working a good job (admin mainly) for an energy company.
thelonehedgehog
This job is far better than the actual job I stuffed for. Very grateful for the way it all has worked out.
thelonehedgehog
*studied not stuffed.....
ValtenHeldenhammer
Not many vet techs (and the like) that i know are working in that field. Its rough. Junk pay to boot.
peeeopeepeee
Any degree will help with things like sales and manager positions. A lot of places see it as completed commitment.
ValtenHeldenhammer
Ahh management with no specific education or experience. Literally people who fail upwards. So common, too.
greatcanine
If you are going to spend 4 years of your life, why get ‘any degree’? Get one that pays.
mardukkur
They all pay. Liberal arts degrees start out lower paying but out-earn professional degrees over a lifetime of work.
peeeopeepeee
It's not advice for someone going in to college, it's advice for someone who realized they made a mistake but are almost done anyway
greatcanine
The saying ‘Do what you love’ is horrible advice and has sent many into useless degrees.....
greatcanine
....I have learned ‘Do what pays a lot’ and save ‘do what you love’ for hobbies.
szepasszony
We need to stop shaming people who get an education because they actually care/want to learn about a subject.
RogerTheCactus
I mean, if you drive yourself/your parents into a lifetime debt you can't pay off, then maybe you should be shamed a little
szepasszony
But the problem isn't the people seeking an education, the problem is that it is attached to a lifetime of debt.
RogerTheCactus
There's nothing wrong with people who want to learn, it's admirable even.. but not if they spend 100k on in with no means to pay it back 2
RogerTheCactus
Yeah, but if you can't have one without another then your search for classical education has huge consequences you didn't think through 1
szepasszony
1I don't think it is a case of 'not thinking the consequences through'. My husband has a phD in classics, loves teaching. So much so that
szepasszony
2 he'd suffer the horrible lifelong consequences to fulfill his dream of teaching kids. He's not the problem, the fact that there are
szepasszony
3 huge, horrible consequences attached to getting an education and becoming an educator is the problem.
RogerTheCactus
Of course, we all agree that it isn't fair and it needs to be fixed. About your husband, I guess you can't be a teacher without college 1
RogerTheCactus
So this is really unfortunate and unfair to him.. if he wants to teach he has no choice. I hope things turn out better soon 2