Babybunz
173396
5802
267
There’s no freedom when your material needs are insecure
Freedom means freedom from domination or it means nothing. Our economic system is literally built on domination of the working class to maximize worker insecurity to control the labor market.
LesLesVegetables
Exactly. Why do you think so many places have unions? No paid sick leave,no job protection against employer and decent wage unless unionized
torque88
I'm a millennial & hate when older folks talk about millennial entitlement. But when I see things like this I kinda have to agree with them.
pullingsaiyantails
Some people choose a 500 dollar luxury car payment. Some people choose to live way outside their means and rack up debt (like me). Freedom 1
pullingsaiyantails
To succeed also means freedom to fail.
OliverClothesoff70
Yep. We should totally switch to one of those eastern Europe economic systems because one thing the US doesn't have enough of is breadlines.
SROF
Like Socialist Republic of Finland?
Txcincy
Yall need to understand the difference between freedom and security, then realize we've been begging for security for the last 70 years
Kbantar
We have been giving up both.
ParanoydAndroid
Nah, in political philosophy there's a distinction between negative and positive rights and negative and positive freedom. Short version
ParanoydAndroid
is that negative freedom is freedom from constraint, positive freedom is the ability to do something. American system values the former,
ParanoydAndroid
not the latter. Consider being naked and alone in the woods versus being able to open a small business bc you have healthcare and your kids
ParanoydAndroid
have guaranteed education. Former is negative freedom, latter is positive.
Honorius77
asplenium
I think I’m this case it means other people are free to not help
Methaqualone
Also in this case those people were free to make the choices that led to their circumstances
Gluseph
Ya fuck y'all for trying to start families, buy a house, and pursuing any career other than medicine
Methaqualone
Wait what does the career part have to do with your comment
Gluseph
Because most jobs are considered non essential, at least here in Canada. Including very well educated people. Actually it seems you're 1/2
Gluseph
More likely to be employed right now if you work in fast food than if you have a degree
flashtrigger
Mandatory overtime or die hungry and homeless. Slavery with extra steps.
DukeDarkwood
Serfdom. It's basically 21st-century serfdom.
GonzoRunner
“And other duties as assigned” or as I similarly like to refer to it as the Slavery Clause.
FajitaPrinceofAllMexicans
Wasn't the term "indentured servants". How they kept people working back in the colony days with debts as well.
ElbowDeepInUserSub
But they're extra steps that the people perform. Paying slave wages has numerous advantages over housing and keeping slaves.
peachesforme
"wage slavery" is the going term for it and it fits
diatribein
Don't forget that you need to be competing and make yourself look desirable just to be lucky enough to get the slavery you need to survive.
maststick
Tying your job to your healthcare is the biggest step of all of them
SupplyinTheFlyin
When the government controls our basic needs we’ll then just become slaves to them. Slaves to government or slaves to corporations it sucks
flashtrigger
Good government isn’t impossible. Just hard. And depending on your country might take revolution
pullingsaiyantails
Better vote for more government. That'll fix it
MyRealBodysSlowlyDyingInAVat
Oo la la, someone's getting laid in college!
pullingsaiyantails
I'm sure slaves had unemployment benefits and the freedom to leave whenever they wanted. Stop trivializing.
PiggyWobbles
"you're free to leave whenever. Good luck eating tonight though"
pullingsaiyantails
There are so many programs to help people get on their feet. There are actual slaves in the world rn. Its fu cked to trivialize them.
PiggyWobbles
you're missing the point - our system revolves around forcing labor out of individuals at the threat of homelessness and starvation, that >
PiggyWobbles
< as other people have pointed out, is still peasantry (slavery) with extra steps. If the choice is work or die, that's no choice
pullingsaiyantails
Invent something. Pool resources with others. Sell oranges on the road. Hardworking people eat.
PiggyWobbles
Hardworking people eat as long as they adhere to the rules set up by rich people, in a system designed to benefit them structurally
idonthaveauser
It is called "the American dream" for a reason. It's not the American reality.
8hourgamer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw
Whovian2018
I make the national average salary, furlough as of tomorrow. After 11 years I have enough saved to keep me going for a year if I have to. [+
Whovian2018
I genuinely think most people spend outside their means and do not know how to manage money and live on a budget.
Ltserb
Half of adults in the the US have a chronic disease. What about them?
annibe11e
Only about 12% are limited in daily activities due to chronic disease, so it's not AS bad as it seems.
Ltserb
And they all have to pay for treatment.
annibe11e
Yep! I have 4 chronic conditions, all requiring treatment. I plan everything around them so I have adequate income, healthcare, and savings.
2fast2barious
And therefore they are doomed to their fate and not entitled to a right to life?
HamboneHFY
Their fate is theirs to control, and their life is theirs to live.
2fast2barious
With the assumption that everyone is born equal right?
HamboneHFY
No, not even that. History is full of disadvantaged folks born into FAR less free and equal societies than ours who still "made it."
HamboneHFY
life is a game about how well you play your cards. Being dealt better cards at the start might be an advantage, but it's not the whole game.
micicle
Comunismsohotrightnow.jpg
Nunyajonesinc
Free your ass, your mind will follow
Banatine
Instructions unclear, but I think I might be gay now.
nhnmreWatcher
So freedom is protection now? WTF? If anything, freedom is the opposite - freedom puts more on you. Serfs we’re protected by their king.
toolazytoname
To be free means to be free to starve, free to suffer needlessly, free to die. The oligarchs are free to profit from this. It sucks
Bolderox
It's almost like society as a whole is a luxury... the real world will kill you over the smallest things
LookForAnInsultHarder
Freedom is most abused term. Fear arises from not being able to get food and shelter. Because all resources are being claimed already.
CptJTuttle
It's not a controversial take, just a ignorant one.
tacobanditog
Freedom and financial freedom are different
puffyjacket69
It's actually called wage slavery, not freedom. It's like sharecropping. All your wages go to 10 large monopolies.
GTimgur
...wait what? Who was raised to believe this?
Ijustwantquiet
That would be called wage slavery.
dbba
Some people will always be satisfied so long as there is someone lower on the pecking order to kick down
Vyrro
It's all the corporations' fault. Having that much centralized power is bad....let's vote for a bigger govt instead
RobMx80
They are. But it’s not like this has all went downhill in the last 3 years. I know plenty of people who’ve struggled under both parties.
nudes4jesus
while obviously not the case for everyone, plenty of people waste their paycheck on stuff they shouldn't. i make less than most friends and
flakeOfDoom
Every time I hear this, I have to think - sure, some people would make poor choices. But also, convincing people to spend money? That's a ->
flakeOfDoom
ridiculously huge industry, that's been developing new strategies for longer than any of us have been alive. Why is it an absurd idea that->
flakeOfDoom
maybe...it works? That if someone is basically told to spend money to be happy from childhood, they'll do exactly as they've been taught?
nudes4jesus
while i do agree, people *need* to be responsible for their own actions. i took a course on advertising and was appalled at how people in
nudes4jesus
class were brainwashed by it. we went through a segment about brand loyalty and people actually started fighting over clothes brand. absurd
chuckles11
Anecdotal evidence is no replacement for hard quantitative data showing how modern capitalism is fucking a lot of people over
nudes4jesus
once again, i am not saying it isn't, what i'm saying is a significant portion of the people living paycheck to paycheck do so from their
nudes4jesus
own choices. nowhere near all. but a significant portion.
nudes4jesus
i'm one of two that actually is financially fine during this because i save up and don't spend 90% of my paycheck each week on random shit.
Blue4Five
Same. I've never made much, but I was free to learn from my mistakes. No cable TV, chose to not have children - my choices are my freedom.
peadubb
Good on you! Buying only what you need is a fantastic concept. FOMO is a powerful pull...
nudes4jesus
i mean i don't only buy what i need, i just don't spend recklessly. nest egg comes first, then i can spend when i have over that amount
nudes4jesus
should we be able to afford things? yes. should we be able to afford expensive hobbies while also eating out 6 times a week and drinking
nudes4jesus
every day? less "living paycheck to paycheck" and more spending 30 bucks on drinks a night. there are people who are not like this, but i
nudes4jesus
see plenty who are saying this exact thing
StellarJay77
That doesn’t make them unworthy of support in a national crisis. It’s way more complex then them just being victims of consumerism.
SentientDumpsterfire
Thanks for saying it, having been raised by and living around "the downtrodden" my whole life it's hard for me to buy the "slaves without
EveryoneWhoDisagreesWithMeIsLiterallyHitler
this chain should have more upvotes. too many fuckfaces equate "not being able to buy all the shit they want all the time" as slavery
LetMeSeeMyKids
A global pandemic is not comparable to a blown tire. Homelessness of the public majority is not dwindling on a tire popping or not. I mean,
LetMeSeeMyKids
There's a spare tire in the trunk, for fack's sake.
annibe11e
Which is temporary. You have to replace the blown tire and put the spare back in the trunk.
annibe11e
This isn't comparing the pandemic to a blown tire. It's talking about a literal blown tire being a devastating expense for many people.
LetMeSeeMyKids
I may be misunderstanding. How is this a controversial take?
n0n53n53
a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. A sudden $300-400 expense can start a spiral. This is why payday loan companies are around, to +
n0n53n53
+ feed off of people who get a bit behind. After that they are hooked
LetMeSeeMyKids
Agreed. But people who are 100$ away from financial ruin at all times are aware they are. They may choose to ignore the fact, but they are
LetMeSeeMyKids
Aware. I dunno, I may be misinterpreting the statement. It's a typical rich get richer, poor get poorer thought. Nothing original, but I
LetMeSeeMyKids
Guess originality isn't the point OP intended. Starting it off by saying it was a 'controversial take' had me believe I was getting new idea
n0n53n53
being aware and being able to change the situation are not the same
LetMeSeeMyKids
Yes, but how is this a 'controversial take' on financial standings of the lower and working classes? Or has this phrase lost all meaning
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
And 90% of people who did think it was awesome until their crisis will go right back to complacence once they recover from their hardship.
bdoverflow101
Well sure! Tiger king 2
abrownangel2
Most of the white working class in the UK consider themselves upper or middle class even the those on the dole unbelievably.
BQZip
By world standards, they are
upupandawaymyfriends
Ouch.
BQZip
NO WE WON'T! *Buys a lottery ticket*
SGAtlantis
What are our options?
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
Once recovered from financial hardship, understand that it can happen to anyone and work toward a more robust social safety net?
KOZtic
It sounds like symptoms of an addict so the first step to recovery is admitting we have a problem. We're still in the detox stage trying...
KOZtic
to not let our hearts explode.
sunflowersticklemorethanfeathers
Or the "ahhh the good ol days" before Caronavirus. They weren't that good just better compared to the pandemic.
complimentpin
What can we do though? all political options currently wont help
HueNost
If*
LurkingTrout
"I will never financially recover from this"
samwyze
"Phew, glad that's over. Now to go about my life, business as usual, while learning nothing. God bless America."
industrialjones
God will provide /s
dudeloveall
Thoughts and prayers
NotQuiteBlonde
You think thoughts and prayers get multiplied for every up vote?
linguinepescatore
another brawndo pls
Tminus1622d
You forget the 'lets blame a random group of minorities for all our problems' step.
VinerialBlumpkin11
Minorities? I always thought everyone blamed white people for all their privilege.
Tminus1622d
It doesnt matter who you blame, as long as it's a subset of the larger population. Historic examples worldwide include: left handed people,
Tminus1622d
everyone who wears glasses,...
VinerialBlumpkin11
I wasn't blaming people, was pointing out hypocrisy of person claiming that minorities are blames when I'm reality whites are blames for
Tonberryc
The "it's all a conspiracy because I'm not sick yet" dumbassery seems to be working well for them right now.
bikecicle
Hopefully the minority group we blame this time is the 1%
RevolutionOnHerLips
This was an early democrat strategy that the republicans subtly adopted. Convince poor white people they're on your side so they don't
RevolutionOnHerLips
team up with poor people of color to bring you down. smh.
AnythingMuchShorter
If you hear what fox news or the conservative radio pundits are saying, they've already planned how they'll blame it on the usual scapegoats
IdiotSavantTinker
Thanks, Obama.
BaronVonJoeJoe
Blacks and other minorities?
ReasonablySorryButNotTooMuch
the left, the 'elite', foreign countries, minorities. You know, the usual.
AnythingMuchShorter
Yep.
BaronVonJoeJoe
The elite are just the nobility at this point. Lords of the new world with serfs.
ReasonablySorryButNotTooMuch
Except what Fox calls 'the liberal elite' are just people who finished highschool. ;P
DLTBGYDCU
4x over 40yrs I’ve worked my self out of possible ruin. We are free to work as hard as we want & earn as much as we can. Continued
youaremyfire
The problem is I worked 70 hour weeks to survive, and even then I sometimes had to choose between an electric bill or groceries.
DLTBGYDCU
8hr/day 7days/ week with some 12s thrown in. Join a good union. It ain’t easy.
youaremyfire
It isn't. They were also taking advantage of staff. It was group home care for people with developmental delays.
youaremyfire
I'd often work in a 7 resident home with many behavioral issues for 18 hours. 3pm-9am. Some in wheelchairs.
youaremyfire
I passed medications including controlled substances and an insulin pen with no certifications at the time.
DLTBGYDCU
Get a union in there. Our local covers a facility like yours. Call your local Teamsters ask about representation.
DLTBGYDCU
There are no guarantees. No one or govt owes you anything. This is natural selection & survival of the fittest. Continued.
whatstherush
What do you think the purpose of a government is?
Bigmclargehugegr8
Prevent the group of people at our border from killing us for the grain
whatstherush
So they owe us protection?
Bigmclargehugegr8
Grain allowed humanity to gather in larger numbers on less land. Had to form armies to protect the grain stores. So at a basic level yes
DLTBGYDCU
Chin up and Don’t Let The Bastards Get You Down.
Blue4Five
wmzer0mw1
I am so sick of this style argument. We have long proved cooperation is the fittest strategy. The solo hero does not work.
wmzer0mw1
People are asking to not go bankrupt from healthcare. IT costs less and performs better. Why is this such a challenge to accept?
wmzer0mw1
Fuck if everyone had done their damn part and stayed home for a month, we woulda been clear of this virus alrdy.
DLTBGYDCU
You want something get it, fight for it. Life isn’t fair. Never will be. We can’t make everyone equal. Continued.
LiquidHandSoap
Shit take, bro
GenStrike
We have survived as a species for 100 000 years by taking care of each other, not by taking it all for ourselves.
TheWeegie
Its hard to hear i know, but Americans are some of the most indoctrinated people on earth. Hence why basics like healthcare is difficult.
Pitzy0
?
whatpassesforclever
LegosBearsAndSex
Is the book actually worth the read?
0tsoko
I definitely think so.
AnythingMuchShorter
It doesn't help that all of our media and politicians are owned by a small group of billionaires who've hired experts in manipulating people
MindOfMobius
Growing up as an American abroad really helps.
SailorVSays
Yeah, hence why so many think it's "socialism". Morons.
puffyjacket69
Absolutely true.
thanatos777
Americans love nothing more than the taste of boot. Especially if it's a corporation wearing that boot.
luckydude
And basic education. For everyone. Not only the very best hospitals and schools in the world for the happy few, and shitholes for the rest.
sadurdaynight
Doesn't help that we have a massive 800lb insurance gorilla that has gov't in it's pocket, and spends tons of money on marketing phd's to 1/
sadurdaynight
brain wash us into thinking we need the massive middleman.. and it's tied itself to our jobs, so being unemployed doubly screws us.. and 2/
sadurdaynight
our parents got indoctrinated into this, so the rest of us were just born right into it with no idea there was any other way. So.. yeah./
reicaden2
Yup, that's the issue, but we have no way to get rid of it at this point.
littlespitfire24
We can not rescue the indoctrinated until Fox News is destroyed.
youknowthatonepersonwiththeface
I feel like I'm in a shit relationship, the U.S. is a shit show but I want to change it so I stay. Also waffle house.But, like, almost 50/50
Vaanhalen
Literally this entire post is indoctrination genius
notsureofanything
Probably because for a long time it was gravely train. Now those people are in charge and don’t understand real hardship
StellarJay77
They misguidedly believe the American Dream is attainable by everyone and that it’s all about extreme wealth.
VinnyKneecaps
You mean other countries don't force children to swear allegiance, hand on heart, to god and country every morning at school? Blasphemous!
ShadeEmberi
well a few probs do, north korea maybe
xSayo
Try being an 11 year old in the deep south and refuse to do that xD boy that was fun
Ruchie
As an Australian, Fucking hero mate.
crumpuppet
every morning? o_O
UnrealDreamer
Every morning at the start of the school day, for the first 8 years of schooling.
IAmTheEarlyEvening
Straight up indoctrination
InTheDistanceAPlaintiveEnglishHorn
What are you guys free from again?
DuckPlanetKing
Healthcare and higher education among many others.
reicaden2
Whoa. A lot of countrys ask that respect be paid to the flag and a national anthem be sung when the flag is demonstrated...
SeeHowItGoes
True, but that is different to the pledge of allegiance the original commenter if referring to.
AwesomeEEl
Nowadays, if saying the pledge interferes with your religion or something like that you have the choice not to.
Counterfit
Everyone has the choice not to.
Iwannaseeit
As far as I've been alive, no one has ever had to say it, ever. For as much reason as "I don't want to"
Babybunz
It’s extra hard for us Americans who shook off our indoctrination
nolzvader
Asking as a European American who likes America, what exactly did you do once you "shook off your indoctrination?"
Babybunz
Lotta things including made sandwiches. I don’t understand the point of your question.
elrupTieSmuggler
The fact is everyone is content. This form if society has been in the works for generations. Every generation becomes more like cattle
pyropowers40828
Right, cause having the government steal your money to provide for you is freedom
daURLfieldcanonlycontainlettersandnumbers
Ate you not paying taxes in the US? Is the government providing for you with that money?
pyropowers40828
I pay a ton of taxes. And no, they don’t provide for me. They mostly murder men, women, and children in third world countries.
daURLfieldcanonlycontainlettersandnumbers
So wouldn’t you rather have them provide for you and your fellow citizens?
pyropowers40828
No. Because they have to steal from someone to provide for me. I’d like to provide for myself and provide for my fellow citizens myself.
2fast2barious
In Denmark the Government is covering 75% of workers salaries so that struggling companies don't have to fire their workers. 1/
2fast2barious
The government is using tax money and savings to keep companies afloat and people employed. But I guess to you that's theft and tyranny
GriffinMann41
So we should abolish public education, roads, the military, the FTC, FDA, stop giving money to corporations, and cease any and all subsidies
KamalaKilledJoe
Yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes, yes. Gov has a role, but it should be very limited, for large projects that single municipalities can't handle 1
KamalaKilledJoe
On their own. Roads should be handled essentially as they are, with local roads managed by local municipalities, regional roads by the 2/
KamalaKilledJoe
Region, etc. FCC is important for coordinating HOW we're utilizing the EM spectrum, else it'd be unusable - but there's a lot of overreach
applerazmataz
And there’s that brain washing again
bdoverflow101
Yup
Shoutrr
the main point you're mistaking (except the tax part) is that our governments are working for us, not the other way around. if they fuck up
Shoutrr
then they are gone, because most western/1st world countries lives in real democracies, and not pseudo republics/corporations.
pyropowers40828
Governments where the majority can vote to take away your individual rights are tyrannical. Government should exist only to protect rights.
Shoutrr
what about government were the minority can vote and take away everybody's rights, and that are gladly doing so ?
pyropowers40828
It currently exists to support corporations and the people that you vote for, not the people.
Shoutrr
that's a US problem: a bunch of moron against big governments vote for people that are supposedly against big governments too to reduce the
ButtblasterMcAssmaster
It's hard to believe there are really people that are this selfish and evil.
StellarJay77
It’s not selfish, it’s a very real belief that others need to be a certain level of self sufficiency to be worthy of support. The American >
StellarJay77
> Dream has been contorted into being all about “you can be rich if you just work hard enough”. And so a lot are not willing to help others>
StellarJay77
> because it fucks up their own American Dream.
pyropowers40828
I willfully donate and support people in need. I want to see those that need it helped, I just don’t believe that stealing is moral.
MindOfMobius
Taxation isn’t theft you filthy bootlicker
pyropowers40828
Umm what? If you are against the people who assert authority over you (the ones with boots), it makes you a bootlicker?
MindOfMobius
corporate flavored boots
pyropowers40828
Wouldn’t it be dress shoes or something then?
DaBaiMa
You’ve fundamentally misunderstood what tax is.
pyropowers40828
I don’t. Taxes are taken against your will. Used inefficiently for things you don’t want.
DaBaiMa
Go live in a log cabin, then. If you want to live in a society, tax is the minimum buy-in.
SomeDetroitGuy
If you want "inefficient money use", check out our health care system.
pyropowers40828
It’s almost like it’s heavily regulated.m and the government interference drives up the price.
stankginchfurbuger
Founding fathers said no tax with out rep, not no taxes. Your beef should be with your shitty representation, not the idea of taxes
pyropowers40828
They did pay taxes. Voting doesn’t help, no politician represents limited government or minimal taxes. It was a 3% tax starting it all.
bdoverflow101
Your name fits.
MindOfMobius
You had 18 years to decide to leave before that, and while I don’t like the argument, you actually can leave if you don’t like it.
pyropowers40828
Not without paying a tax... but your right it’s not a good argument. Most governments are tyrannical.
InsertNameHereIGuess
So you don't want police, fire department, roads, education, military and all that ?
pyropowers40828
Did you know all those things could be funded voluntarily? Even if it wasn’t, the military doesn’t defend this country, it is absurdly large
pyropowers40828
It’s funny that people often list the same functions of government. And the list isn’t very long. But here we are with a huge list in life.
Govote
You can check your voter registration at vote.org
[deleted]
[deleted]
Govote
Ok. You take the first shot man. I'll wait. For everyone else it's time to grow up and vote. Check your voter registration at vote.org
Vaanhalen
Fuck off
Govote
Y, Vaanhalen?
Govote
You were my favorite band in 7th grade!
FiveEalsInASuit
vote for A: senile corrupt shit sandwich. Or B: Narcissistic corrupt giant douch. The choice is yours !
LariCheltsy
Govote
Oh hell yeah!!
VinerialBlumpkin11
Because voting makes people more responsible with their money. Keep thinking government will take care of you, surely any day now it will..
UWAGAGABLAGABLAGABA
Doesn't work for Hawaii
manWithNoHands
Who are the downvoters everytime you suggest this? Just curious.
ShiraZen
Trump supporters? Nobody else has an issue with voting, I would guess.
pyropowers40828
People that don’t believe voting changes anything, especially when you get to choose between horrible and terrible.
flistdumpnumberonemillion
lots of members of "you should actively avoid voting because bothsidestho, somehow not voting will fix it" squad shitting up the place
efemral
Whoever they are they are not willing to comment.
KaoruVanity
The ones who think he should be using vote.gov</a> instead of vote.org
defiedthestars
Id guess people who know there's no one with real solutions to vote for atm.
steviedrawsdinos
True that.
DancesWithHedgehogs
I was a Bernie supporter, but I'm not downvoting the person who suggests that voting is a thing we should all do. Vote against a guy!
sadertots721
Trump humpers lol
Drizzt893
A lot of people think he's a bot.
Ronelyn
A bot that can understand context and provide a viable, nonmanipulative solution to the problem? Sign me the fuck up!
jimmityjammity
He's not a bot but easy to scan for words like 'freedom, economy politics, voting' etc.
Ronelyn
Honestly, if it's not a bot, it should be. When is "Make sure you freakin' vote" NOT something people should hear?
Txcincy
Down voting here has as much impact on the outcome of presidential elections as voting in November.
DancesWithHedgehogs
What's your suggested alternative to voting? Your frustration is understandable, but what's your alternative?
SirBrendan
Big Ol' Union organizing workers as a political body to make concrete demands while training that same mass for self-government.
Govote
Take a wild guess
Gababu
assholes. There's some people here that no matter what downvote.
IdiotSavantTinker
Republicans?
manWithNoHands
Trump supporters. I figured as much.
BrazilianThunderPanda
Nope super progressive here & I down vote bc it’s annoying seeing it when its 7.5 months away & I can’t do jack shit right now.
WoeToHice
You could check your voter registration at vote.org ;)
ItsThatJordanGuy
"They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again."
Kittyswitch
Voter suppression is a serious issue in the US. Plus our options always suck.
AlaSnackbar
So shouldn't your ID be checked before you vote?? That'll make sure only registered and eligible people will vote and none else in you stead
Ronelyn
Hence, check to see if you're registered. And voting to get a slap in the face rather than a stab in the groin is still worth doing as...
Ronelyn
...you campaign to get "actual help without slaps or stabbing" on the damn ballot.
thynix
Agreed! Ranked choice voting can help with this - see http://rankmivote.com/ for example
Govote
Yes!
Kaluaman
I love you robot
LukkaPucca
Govote
Haha I'm a dude, but I've been programed to love you back all the same!
MatrimBloodyCauthon
I love you dude
porktacular
More like VoteBot
Gruezi
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9936C719FF689E7D <- thank my later
cheesedogs
.
Govote
Instead of this risky click, I'll leave this here one more time: Vote.org
KLUSTENATOR
I'll just go ahead and never thank you.
nukethelizards
But Bernie dropped out.... Biden can’t win, and if he did his platform doesn’t fix anything listed above. We’re Fucked 2020
AlaSnackbar
I dont think you'd like the "Freedoms" under Bernie or his compatriots.
FireGodTheOG
Lmao all the downvotes but this is why a two party system blows. We’re kinda put back where we were 4 years ago.
Ronelyn
We're on a plane with blown engines. We can't reach an airstrip. We can choose between an open field and a mountain.
FiveEalsInASuit
you get to choose between two mountains, but you're going to end up down the same ravine after the crash either way*
Ronelyn
I'd rather have an airfield, too. But the odds of anyone surviving go way up if we land controlled in the field.
Ronelyn
Not minimising the shit we're in. But hands on the controls, whatever there is of them, is better than hands off.
cheesedogs
Agree. Except some think biden is the mountain and others think he is the field
prophet002
You sound like a Trump voter.
DancesWithHedgehogs
Nice troll.
Ronelyn
*blinks* I...wow, okay. I should introduce you to my aunt. *She* sounds like a Trump voter.
prophet002
This is why most people voted for Trump. He was better than Hillary in their minds.
Ronelyn
I campaigned for either Castro or Warren (preferred airfields). I voted Bernie in the primary (another decent airfield). Now I'm pushing...
GryphonHunter
if there is proof at all of this its happening right now
angryjumbus
It's been happening for decades, you just look at the people on the corner and assume they're just lazy.
iguessidontknowhowtospellimaganative
Yeah, a couple of million people live paycheck to paycheck, have large amounts of debt, and are generally fucked. That's your proof.
GryphonHunter
i wasnt asking for proof. i said the proof was being demonstrated and exasperated by the current crisis
iguessidontknowhowtospellimaganative
Well you know, that's just, like, your opinion man.
iguessidontknowhowtospellimaganative
No, my bad. Reading is hard sometimes.
TheOneAndOnlyButtStabber
look up the most free top 10 1st world countries, USA isn't on it.
GenStrike
Currently listed as a "partial/flawed democracy"
TheOneAndOnlyButtStabber
thats like saying the Hindenburg has some fire damage
inok777
It'll buff out
LaronX
I mean most of the rest of the developt world has been telling you, but the USA have the terrible habit to yell "'MURICA" and ignore it.
GryphonHunter
A good portion of the IS has been screaming to fix it too for years. But we have a minority rule in this country
LaronX
No offense, but that seems because you seemd to have gotten comfy with your jail. Instead of going for drastic change you keep going for 1/?
LaronX
the easy and short term options. That is why Trump won, that is why Obama could be loved and kill people illegally with drones in Iran 2/?
LaronX
the USA are happy to eat dirt if it means it is not the worst case. No matter how much better things could be 3/3
PleaseRespectMyAsshole
My wife and I (me, really) are bad about saving money but this has scared us into a different line of thinking. We've put back enough 1/
PleaseRespectMyAsshole
to cover three months worth of rent and I still don't feel like that is enough. I'm terrified that we are going to lose our jobs and be 2/
PleaseRespectMyAsshole
homeless but I know I am not alone in that feeling. This really sucks. 3/3
Catladymandont
Damn you must make a lot to be able to put three months of being rent down at a moment's notice
PleaseRespectMyAsshole
We do okay for ourselves, have no kids, and we put the stimulus checks into our savings.
RonnyBert
?
InnerBushman
IMHO it's happening all the time but we are merely frogs boiled alive, that's why almost no one takes action.
CatharsisContained
Researching this turned Elizabeth Warren from R to D. She found too many cases of people getting screwed over emergencies that snowballed.
PolarHailStorm
Didn't Trump himself jump from R to D to I multiple times 8 years or so ago? Your politics is fucking bizarro.
lurklurkingmclurk
He just got mad that the US elected a Black president.
AcquiredSire
Anoint to Wikipedia he was a D at some point. Probably when he was dealing with bankruptcy though lol.
sugarmamaofcats
He's still a D. Just not in the sense of democrat anymore.
Babybunz
Everyone’s a socialist in a crisis. Capitalism has utterly failed to perform the most basic duties of an economic system in this pandemic
TheCharedLizard
I mean you could say current America is socialist. cooperate socialist, so none of the socialism is actually for the people.
nannafland
I’m.... I’m also a socialist when there is no crisis...
BandaloopDancer
I for one am excited af for a post-capitalist future.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
I always say Socialism for the necessities, capitalism for the luxuries. AKA a welfare state that incentivises its entrepreneurs.
Saajix
I just want a system free of monopolies, and lobbyist. Consumer centered, and ethical work policies/labor rights. With a risk to reward
Saajix
Ratio that is fair to the guy who spent the money and took the risk at the top. And a system that allows bartering, and trading. And
Saajix
I hate the credit system and the double taxing, and interest, gut that whole thing. Along with the immediate depreciation on purchases.
sugarmamaofcats
Sounds like you need to run for politics
damogen
Somewhere arund the middle of the second comment you stopped making sense. But in the first half I am all with you.
GryphonHunter
if you stress test it and it breaks, it isnt good. you think this would prove that the bootstraps are made up
keystotheairlock
What bootstraps? What is that even supposed to fucking mean?
GryphonHunter
the bootstraps everyone is supposed to pull themselves up by. the saying made up to describe an impossible task. the bs people say when they
GryphonHunter
claim they made their success on their own as opposed to help through society which is actually how it works
Blank1612
Spot the software guy
Brittle7299
Capitalism is a machine that produces great wealth. It just needs a injection of lawful morality. It's current iteration is failing.
LespritDeLescalier22
I feel like every economic and political theory falls on its face when human morality gets involved. Maybe because morality is subjective?
Babybunz
BandaloopDancer
Morality and shareholder maximization are mutually exclusive concepts as far as I'm concerned. This entire mess illustrates that vividly.
PorneliusHubertII
Communosm is a machine that provides for all equally. All it needs is moral governance. It doesnt work because man is inherently greedy.
BandaloopDancer
*state communosm
WittyAttemptAtUsername
It provides equally little
WhatsYourCovidStory
.
ProfessorAssBlast2020
lol this has nothing to do with socialism vs capitalism. Socialist countries continue to be ruined (not northern europe btw, those 1/2
ProfessorAssBlast2020
are not socialista at all) And capitalist countries continue to be ok. This has to do with the american healthcare system only, a bad joke
neckingduringschindlerslist
And general ridiculous political corruption.
ProfessorAssBlast2020
Yea
NotWBRecords
Of course it isn’t working. The economy isn’t able to function. When the government isn’t allowing business to open, they have to step in.
goodrunofbadluck
This is the correct answer. The economy didn’t fail, we’re in a literal pandemic.
Babybunz
Then with climate change, maybe we should be thinking about more resilient forms of economy?
chardlz
I suppose it really depends on what you consider the basic duties of an economic system
Babybunz
Providing for basic needs is an easy starting point.
boomtractor
Wouldn't that be a "socio-economic" system, which is a variable in economic & social systems?
Babybunz
There’s no point to having an economic system if it doesn’t do that
thatshytidontlike
Just work 40,50,60, hell 70 hours/wk & don’t provide for anyone other than yourself
Govote
If there's proof at all that we desperately need engaged citizens it's happening now too. Get registered and vote, people. Check at vote.org
nugo520
I honestly do not believe voting in the US works, at least not anymore, your choices are too few and candidates to rich
GoodEarthBetweenMyToes
Always upvote Govote.
GenStrike
There are many more ways to participate in a democracy beyond casting a ballot once every four years.We desperately need engaged citizens...
Govote
I agree! There are countless local elections too, and participating in collective action in general is an aid to our democracy.
GenStrike
Also I just wanna say I mean no ill will towards you when I make these comments - you in particular are making a concerted effort.
Govote
No big my guy!
GenStrike
I found this "introduction to organizing" - thought it might be good to share - :) https://comm-org.wisc.edu/papers97/beckwith.htm
Govote
This is fantastic! I wonder if there's an updated (internet) version of this?