Arguably the "self defence" defence is on the side of the group in this case. In the first movie, at least, he was the aggressor in almost every instance.
To the folks commenting about suppressors not silencing the shot…I’d like to point out the existence of subsonic ammo. If I, a lowly gunsmith can make the loudest part of a 45-70 going of be the actual impact of the round…John could probably figure it out. And being an assassin he’d have reason to.
It’s somewhere near the bottom of the constitution that any act you commit after someone kills your puppy is not punishable in a court of law. Look it up, it’s near the bottom.
They are all trying to kill him, everything he does is self-defense. Maybe whoever set this up should have told these lawyers, imagine John Wick is your client, build your defense for his actions.
A guy at the gun range. "Would you please stop making that sound!" "What sound?" "Every time you fire, you go "pring" over and over." "Well, it's a .380, not a 9mm." I am not always welcome at the gun range.
this is a universe where literally everyone works in the assassin business in some capacity, I don't think these are as illegal as you'd expect them to be
except perhaps jaywalking
in fact the only time these things would be frowned upon is if they happened within the premises of the very exclusive assassin hotel
John Wick does a better job of keeping track of ammo capacity than pretty much any other action movie series. I generally don't care about stuff like that but really appreciate the effort involved when film-makers decide they want to do something like that properly
Correct me if I'm wrong but even without the gunshot part of a gun firing, the mechanisms of the slide flying back and a shell ejecting, it's gonna be about as loud as someone clapping next to you per shot
Honestly the most hilarious part of this is the idea that suppressed firearms going off in a crowd attract exactly 0 attention or notice. It may not sound like a gun shot, and the high pressure wave spike is spread out, but by decibels that’s still louder than a lawnmower or maximum human shout volume, and will cause hearing damage with prolonged exposure.
Yep, and I’m positive everyone involved in scripting that scene knew that, but it’s a creative and unique scene that if it was realistic just wouldn’t have happened.
Considering the body armour in their 'business suits' maybe they have better silencer tech, could be an alternate timeline/parallel universe situation. Some of the 70's era tech shown in the prequel series The Continental is almost sci-fi, like the building self destruct system.
Have you not seen the other movies? Every single person in the John Wick universe is an assassin. Every one. There is no person in those movies that is not a professional assassin. The only one what wasn't was Alfie Allen, and he was killed. They all knew what was going on, they're just staying out of it.
Cut to a typical grandma’s house, but then show no less than 50 x-ray shots that reveal her previous life as a professional assassin. Cane-swords, purse-guns, a knitted bulletproof sweater, explosives disguised as hard candies…
Yeah, but this is the modern era in a major city. Everyone's got ear buds in and are locked into their phones. You could skin a live Gibbon and the few who notice will choose to ignore it.
Look, I can’t argue that there are places in a city where background noise might actually cause you to miss a suppressed gunshot. But suppressed or not, when you are standing within 10 ft, you sure as hell know something happened.
Dude, a non suppressed .45ACP is sub sonic by default. The sound from a super sonic bullet is NOTHING compared to the explosion that accelerated it. Muzzle energy dominates muzzle velocity by a mile for sound generation. You can suppress a .22lr and it will still be a higher pressure wave than you could make yelling. There just isn’t any way to use explosive power to accelerate a projectile to deadly speed and not be noticed by the people next to you.
I've fired .22 with silencer barrel. The sound depends of which .22 I fire. .22 Magnum, a bang. It's supersonic. .22 LR, a thumb. It's right on the edge of supersonic and with the silencer it goes just under. .22 short, click. The sound comes from the striking pin. The bullet makes no sound. Until it hits the target.
This is just….not accurate at all. Most of the measurements are taken at the muzzle so you can see a fair comparison. So just don’t hold your ear to the end of the rifle. Yes. It isn’t anywhere near what the movies show, but shooting suppressed is much quieter than 130 dBa at the shooter’s or spotter’s ear.
That depends on a hell of a lot of factors. For instance your proximity to obstructions that reflect sound. The length of the barrel (which influences uncapping pressure). Obviously the pressure of the cartridge and the speed of the projectile. The volume of the can. Generally speaking it’s best to double up on hearing protection (a can and good plugs or head cans) for any shooting if you want to guard your ears.
I’ve had this argument many times on here. Fact is, hearing is complicated. Ability for the human brain to recognize gunshots is complicated. Context and background noise and Fourier analysis of frequency is complicated. What’s not complicated is decibels, the peak pressure ratio to minimum pressure which is amplitude and energy. Best case scenario for a suppressor is to knock off about 30 dB. 130 dB to 100 dB is a 1000:1 reduction, but it’s still louder than a lawn mower and can damage hearing.
This is not to say that suppressors cannot be effective. It’s more that the hearing ability of humans is incredible, and when you are dealing with a literal explosion, a suppressor does not make gunshots in any way mild or tame or unnoticeable. At best they make them less recognizable and less damaging to hearing. Standing next to one, you sure as fuck know it went off. People a block away with other background noises are the ones who might actually fail to notice the shot.
Sound pressure varies with the square of the distance from the source (surface area of a sphere). And 130 dB is at the muzzle using run of the mill ammo. Shoot low power ammo through a 300 blackout or .22 with a suppressor and I can cough louder than the sound it makes. I’ve shot with both. Anyone not familiar with firearms wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
Depends a lot on the specifics, but remember that even if you made the bullet and the powder itself absolutely silent, including the woosh through the air and the sound of the impact, the weapon is going to be a bit louder than racking the action as violently as you are able to do. That said, I have gotten to shoot some rifles where even THAT was way toned down. The semiauto sounded like a really loud electric typewriter. The bolt action .45 sounded like an air gun. The impacts were louder.
No. Subsonic ammo just stops the bullet from making a crack. It's still going to sound like a gun going off, just quieter. Anyone on that block is gonna notice.
Sub sonic bullets don’t produce mini sonic booms, and so there is sound reduction. But the majority of noise isn’t from the bullet, but rather from the powder explosion that propels the bullet and then gets released after bullet exits the barrel. So yeas there is noise reduction with slower ammo, but most common handguns are already sub sonic, and the vast majority of dB reduction is still up to the suppressor.
saltysanford
But did they ever consider he's the CEO of Wick Corp.
bekkayya
except that in the wick universe literally everybody is in on it, the law is likely different or unapplicable
DriverIRQnotlessOrEqual
Shamalamadingdongz
But... it's self defense. Also they killed his dog
Aurentis
Arguably the "self defence" defence is on the side of the group in this case. In the first movie, at least, he was the aggressor in almost every instance.
HunterArtisanFarmer
To the folks commenting about suppressors not silencing the shot…I’d like to point out the existence of subsonic ammo. If I, a lowly gunsmith can make the loudest part of a 45-70 going of be the actual impact of the round…John could probably figure it out. And being an assassin he’d have reason to.
DisneyCountdowns
It’s somewhere near the bottom of the constitution that any act you commit after someone kills your puppy is not punishable in a court of law. Look it up, it’s near the bottom.
writerbuddy
They are all trying to kill him, everything he does is self-defense. Maybe whoever set this up should have told these lawyers, imagine John Wick is your client, build your defense for his actions.
jappie348
That scene was so bad
SacrificialClam
Was really hoping the last thing was going to be Luigi and them being like, "well now, here we have something interesting "
UncleRat
A guy at the gun range.
"Would you please stop making that sound!"
"What sound?"
"Every time you fire, you go "pring" over and over."
"Well, it's a .380, not a 9mm."
I am not always welcome at the gun range.
Lightsmith
Lol clearly they arent Texas Lawyers. They're standing their ground against each other.
Its Common knowledge.
gnomedeplume
this is a universe where literally everyone works in the assassin business in some capacity, I don't think these are as illegal as you'd expect them to be
except perhaps jaywalking
in fact the only time these things would be frowned upon is if they happened within the premises of the very exclusive assassin hotel
Xero999
It's only illegal if you get caught
johnblood616
"You cant shoot guns in public."
*sighs in Texan
Hekatombe
Jaywalking is a serious crime in the United States https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/california-police-shooting-jaywalking-video-b1806614.html
nygreenguy
I instantly knew had to be a poc without clicking. Turns out I was right.
swedeonamoose
And in Europe it is more like a "at your own risk" kind of deal.
herzatz
Depend of the countries I guess, and anyway the pedestrian will never be at fault.
gnomedeplume
because Europe wasn't built from the ground up to value cars more than people
3rdoption
What's really illegal is having a handgun with a seemingly unlimited magazine.
Youhavinagiraffe
John Wick does a better job of keeping track of ammo capacity than pretty much any other action movie series. I generally don't care about stuff like that but really appreciate the effort involved when film-makers decide they want to do something like that properly
BeardicPerformance
Deadpool counts them down (in like one scene…)
Efreeti
Which is not really something that happens in the John Wick movies. The reloads are part of the action, and you can count the bullets.
AlwaysDownvoteDots
Only in the first movie, they gave up realistic magazines pretty quickly.
RaynWisp
That's one of the few things these movies actually nailed. Magazine capacity is "mostly" respected.
3rdoption
Ok, then how about those bulletproof lapels?
RaynWisp
It is not one of the things they nailed, unfortunately.
gnomedeplume
you clearly aren't going to one of the better tailors, it seems
TurboCartoonSmuggler
Correct me if I'm wrong but even without the gunshot part of a gun firing, the mechanisms of the slide flying back and a shell ejecting, it's gonna be about as loud as someone clapping next to you per shot
FrolickingFrolicking
Not to mention chunks of metal (bullets) bouncing and whizzing around at extremelt high speed
DiracsDelta
Honestly the most hilarious part of this is the idea that suppressed firearms going off in a crowd attract exactly 0 attention or notice. It may not sound like a gun shot, and the high pressure wave spike is spread out, but by decibels that’s still louder than a lawnmower or maximum human shout volume, and will cause hearing damage with prolonged exposure.
malakim
No no, you don't understand, they were using super special assassin silencers. Way more effective than normal silencers.
Carnot
Yep, and I’m positive everyone involved in scripting that scene knew that, but it’s a creative and unique scene that if it was realistic just wouldn’t have happened.
Snooj
Movie silencers are amazing.
TheEleventhHand
Considering the body armour in their 'business suits' maybe they have better silencer tech, could be an alternate timeline/parallel universe situation. Some of the 70's era tech shown in the prequel series The Continental is almost sci-fi, like the building self destruct system.
Leithoa
Imagine someone driving nails into a 2x4 with a hammer, that's about how loud a silenced firearm is.
jtalbain333
Not always true. https://youtu.be/xh09rh9_svs?si=l-JunI4wNxJqsQpz
RichterCa
Have you not seen the other movies? Every single person in the John Wick universe is an assassin. Every one. There is no person in those movies that is not a professional assassin. The only one what wasn't was Alfie Allen, and he was killed. They all knew what was going on, they're just staying out of it.
Freemasonry
Yeah, that's my explanation for the whole series
Firestar002
Me: “Even old lady Jenny down the street?”
You: “ESPECIALLY old lady Jenny.”
Cut to a typical grandma’s house, but then show no less than 50 x-ray shots that reveal her previous life as a professional assassin. Cane-swords, purse-guns, a knitted bulletproof sweater, explosives disguised as hard candies…
barbarian818
Yeah, but this is the modern era in a major city. Everyone's got ear buds in and are locked into their phones. You could skin a live Gibbon and the few who notice will choose to ignore it.
cuteanomallie
Sypurist
Yeah, the locals in most major cities have turned "minding your own business" into an art.
DiracsDelta
Look, I can’t argue that there are places in a city where background noise might actually cause you to miss a suppressed gunshot. But suppressed or not, when you are standing within 10 ft, you sure as hell know something happened.
DisgruntledFerret
I mean it might be a subsonic gun! Those can genuinely sound like movie guns.
DiracsDelta
Dude, a non suppressed .45ACP is sub sonic by default. The sound from a super sonic bullet is NOTHING compared to the explosion that accelerated it. Muzzle energy dominates muzzle velocity by a mile for sound generation. You can suppress a .22lr and it will still be a higher pressure wave than you could make yelling. There just isn’t any way to use explosive power to accelerate a projectile to deadly speed and not be noticed by the people next to you.
PanNonOpticon
I've fired .22 with silencer barrel.
The sound depends of which .22 I fire. .22 Magnum, a bang. It's supersonic. .22 LR, a thumb. It's right on the edge of supersonic and with the silencer it goes just under. .22 short, click. The sound comes from the striking pin. The bullet makes no sound.
Until it hits the target.
YoureTooTents
This is just….not accurate at all. Most of the measurements are taken at the muzzle so you can see a fair comparison. So just don’t hold your ear to the end of the rifle.
Yes. It isn’t anywhere near what the movies show, but shooting suppressed is much quieter than 130 dBa at the shooter’s or spotter’s ear.
HunterArtisanFarmer
That depends on a hell of a lot of factors. For instance your proximity to obstructions that reflect sound. The length of the barrel (which influences uncapping pressure). Obviously the pressure of the cartridge and the speed of the projectile. The volume of the can. Generally speaking it’s best to double up on hearing protection (a can and good plugs or head cans) for any shooting if you want to guard your ears.
Leithoa
"Much quieter" ....dB is logarithmic but 110-135 dB is still really loud.
DiracsDelta
I’ve had this argument many times on here. Fact is, hearing is complicated. Ability for the human brain to recognize gunshots is complicated. Context and background noise and Fourier analysis of frequency is complicated. What’s not complicated is decibels, the peak pressure ratio to minimum pressure which is amplitude and energy. Best case scenario for a suppressor is to knock off about 30 dB. 130 dB to 100 dB is a 1000:1 reduction, but it’s still louder than a lawn mower and can damage hearing.
DiracsDelta
This is not to say that suppressors cannot be effective. It’s more that the hearing ability of humans is incredible, and when you are dealing with a literal explosion, a suppressor does not make gunshots in any way mild or tame or unnoticeable. At best they make them less recognizable and less damaging to hearing. Standing next to one, you sure as fuck know it went off. People a block away with other background noises are the ones who might actually fail to notice the shot.
YoureTooTents
Sound pressure varies with the square of the distance from the source (surface area of a sphere). And 130 dB is at the muzzle using run of the mill ammo.
Shoot low power ammo through a 300 blackout or .22 with a suppressor and I can cough louder than the sound it makes. I’ve shot with both.
Anyone not familiar with firearms wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
Leithoa
The -BEST- case scenario with the best suppressor on the market & subsonic ammo is still over 100 dB for either caliber.
Firestar002
What if we add subsonic rounds to the equation. Does that change anything? (Sorry, not a gun guy. Forgive my ignorance)
LeumisRichardson
Depends a lot on the specifics, but remember that even if you made the bullet and the powder itself absolutely silent, including the woosh through the air and the sound of the impact, the weapon is going to be a bit louder than racking the action as violently as you are able to do. That said, I have gotten to shoot some rifles where even THAT was way toned down. The semiauto sounded like a really loud electric typewriter. The bolt action .45 sounded like an air gun. The impacts were louder.
Leithoa
No. Subsonic ammo just stops the bullet from making a crack. It's still going to sound like a gun going off, just quieter. Anyone on that block is gonna notice.
DiracsDelta
Sub sonic bullets don’t produce mini sonic booms, and so there is sound reduction. But the majority of noise isn’t from the bullet, but rather from the powder explosion that propels the bullet and then gets released after bullet exits the barrel. So yeas there is noise reduction with slower ammo, but most common handguns are already sub sonic, and the vast majority of dB reduction is still up to the suppressor.
comeonjointhejoyride
He can make his own ammo and that way select the amount of noice it creates
bitemark
Noice!
Cthulhuonabike
Even with a suppressor, if you loaded rounds that had a light enough powder load to be effectively silent they would be completely ineffective