Jul 18, 2022 3:45 PM
DadOnTheInternet
109997
1731
91
Lovingimpaler
FFS it's a medical procedure, that's it.
PeteyVonWho
Wow, it's almost like people care more about their interpretation of the Bible, than what's actually written in it.
hoboispope
We. Know. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. You medieval failed state
HOOMANGUY
That's like arguing about spiderman lore. Spiderman ain't real. Nobody should live their lives differently because it says in a book.
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
Respectfully disagree. I think we all should bear in mind that with great power comes great responsibility.
Irbricksceo
The classical rabbinical interprets was life begins 30 days after birth. Infant mortality was simply so damn high….
ILeftMyUsernameInMyOtherPants
Essentially, if you could show you were a survivor then you'd be deemed a person.
ShySapiosexual
DotCommie
I'm tired of people not being able to figure out grey areas. If you wait so long a fetus could survive without you if removed, it's "murder"
...also: You can't charge ppl with injuring/killing 2 EVERY time it involves pregnant lady if you're so sure it's only 1 until outside vag
WeaponizedJerk
Not that I disagree, but that show just sounds like a giant echo chamber.
AdventureBat
Seems the first step here is not confusing Catholicism with the Bible..
KaptenN
Islam might not ban abortion, but I believe that Sharia law does to some extent.
PraiseAzathoth
If you're so ashamed of saying your faith's stance on topics like this... Maybe it's time to get a new faith.
qroniq14
I think this is wonderful. I also think Catholics and Christian’s will use this info to further denigrate Islam and Judaism.
Slayage
This isn't info about İslam, that woman is outright lying about Islams supposedly position on abortion.
edcellente
Well I seem to remember she is right but the limitation is 12(?) weeks
The wiki page is decent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion
Attaroo
Psalm 137:9. Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. Don't use the bible for your morality.
OverpricedCrayon
So does restricting abortion infringe on religious freedoms?
Every law could be. Depending on how funky the religion is. Doesn’t matter.
JamShady
Muslim here, she completely incorrect about the Islamic position. Contraception is ok, but no abortion after 3 months (when fetus has life)
jmarkson
about as accepted by Muslims as most Christians: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/
Someshithead241
"Is god against abortion." Here's the simple answer. I don't give a fuck. Whether sky daddy likes or not doesn't matter.
BobsBurgerslurker
Life of the pregnant person comes first. What a concept.
nevergoingtogiveyouupnevergoingtoletyoudown
Can't have more babies if she's dead.
Gorthax274
Good logic. But it's also easier to groom and manipulate the young, especially if they have 1 less parent to teach them stranger danger.
VampireTheBuffetSlayer
‘Pregnant person’?
ReallyNotAVampire
I could use a little fuel myself, and we could all use a little... change.
Kennleth
1/ My wife and I watched New Amsterdam while she was pregnant, and at one point one of the characters told her husband "if it's me or the
2/ baby, choose the baby." I looked at my wife and told her. "I'm choosing you 100% of the time." I need her on my team, I can't raise a
3/ baby on my own, and my wife is worth so much more."
You are right. But you would likely rise to the occasion.
I conscientiously don't want to be in that position, I'd choose to either try again, or go without before picking that.
VincitQuiSeVincit
ikr?
JohnSmithterms
I dont give a fuck what any of your little mythical books say.
fessusIntellectiva
Numbers 5 described how to perform one as part of a temple ritual.
KrampusCopia
Hiboredimdad
Bit hypocritical of the guy to ban abortion,canonically no one has killed more babies than God himself.In fact he makes many of them suffer
datphone777365
that plan though...
kellerstern
I don't care for any of their views. I don't need religion for that kind of question, AT ALL.
TheGhostOfTheWomanThatCaitlynJennerKilled
I use to think that Japan was a strange place, still do! but America is on another level
HappyPetunia
Abortion has been legal in Japan longer than contraceptive pills, IIRC.
PoopyProblem5
Who gives a fuck if its in the bible? Has anyone actually read that thing? Its stupid whacky shit!
gorillaClutch
the bible specifically says life begins at first breath, so being born.
apoliticalpanda
Cool story. Why should a Muslim, Jew or atheists be forced to do anything the Bible says?
agreed. they shouldn't
GodEmperorOfImgur
Well, the Muslim, Jew, and Christian all drink from the same well. They all carry the concept of Pneuma in their texts. That said, they 1/2
obviously shouldn't... but are you then making a non-religious argument against abortion? 2/2
NotSomoneElse68
This is more saying that Christians aren't even following their own fiction.
cus theists love forcing their bs on others?
Eleshar24
Fascists don't care about being consistent, they care about power.
1TrueKingInTheNorth
Yeah but these are all women, we need men's opinion, that's what really matters /s
ISeeAlmostEverything
You should never let a work of fiction dictate you life choices.
Mxlespxles
NEVER FORGET YOUR TOWEL
Now that's just plain good advice right there.
INeverWaitForIt
*Especially* when you take metaphors and stories in that work of fiction as literal fact.
Pgoodso
You can let it INSPIRE your life choices. But Jesus was a teacher using logic, Socratic method and metaphor, not a dictator.
If we're going with fiction, I prefer Mr. Miyagi.
As long as you use it to get your shit together and find self-confidence instead of use it as an excuse to beat people up, why not?
Lordborgman
But...Star Trek TNG!
Abstinence is just as bad.
noobskills
You're missing the point though... It isn't in the bible. The rule is essentially made up by the leaders of the church.
Which also makes it fiction. kinda.
GCRust
The Organization of Kiddie Diddlers are opposed to lowering the supply of Kiddies to Diddle.
BrutalApathy
"But unwanted children are the easiest!"
HardyandRamanujan
I dunno, I pretend to be Will Hunting on the regular, so...
JericoJones23
Me too! I walk around with a mop and solve math equations im the university! I usually get kicked because i dont actually work there and
I just write random numbers on the walls but it really gets me through the day
DrunkenMarineBiologist
You must like apples
Imkeepingthisusername
The baaable says that life begins at first breath. It also has handy instructions on primitive abortions without using a hanger.
Kazpur81S
Thought it was three breaths….?
Calise425
If you go back far enough it teaches you how to treat your slaves, too! Really handy piece of text, that bible is.
Polymathena
Citation please?
sinbinrugger
https://compareprivateplanes.com/listing/light/cessna-citation-ii
Here you go
blaghart
The Trial of the bitter water in Numbers 5:11-31, Exodus 21:22-25 says abortion ISN'T the same as murder, Hosea 9:14 says that miscarriage
is god's will (meaning the law has no right to investigate miscarriages or punish the mother), Isaiah 13:18 says killing the unborn is cool,
PatrikLilja
How does that state that the law have no right to investigate miscarriages?
From a biblical standpoint (aka the justification that christians use) miscarriage is god's will, so investigating is questioning god's will
EmanNiemThcin
Spirit = Breath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma#Christianity English translation drops about half the meaning.
Pneuma is important here because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament compare also anima and ruach.
Really? Downvotes? I guess I should have written 'sauce'?
[deleted]
What narrative? I just want a citation. Methinks you do infer too much.
You're asking for proof of something from a work of fiction which is rather oxymoronic to begin with.
Not asking for proof. JUST THE CITATION.
FudgeWeasel
Abortion IS in the bible. It includes instructions on how to perform one. The bible does not ban abortion.
WarpHype
So it’s not called an abortion if the woman was unfaithful? That is just an abortion. And the Bible allows it. I’ve looked it up and read it
Th3Luggage
https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1548744347788640257?s=21&t=bOOVUR7rjkhcjC5uyivmPw
I think she meant that "abortion is murder" isn't in the bible.
AsAHistorian
To be fair, it doesn't explicitly say "here's how to end a pregnancy," that's just how some people interpret that passage.
OnlyPositiveFavourites
It also explicitly states that if someone injured a pregnant woman to the point she miscarries it's property theft, not murder
strugglesnuggler
Wouldn't it only be property theft if the baby was a girl? /s
KlatnYelox
It's probably property theft from the father, not the pregnant thing.
You're right. What's the crime for damage to livestock?
Usually replacement and a fine on top for the inconvience, I think, though theft also carried loss of hand or other bodily effecting punishm
sniggly5212
WiredWWW
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205:11-31&version=NIV
Ricdesan
This is accurate in scope.
bortlp
Technical correct, but I think the question implied "is it [, the characterization of abortion as murder,] in the bible?" Which it's not.
smellyhippy
The best kind
Pennytheviszla
I am promoting you to bureaucrat grade 36
An increase of 2 schmekels per day
hamberglar
The catholic church also establishes life as beginning at first breath, so their position regarding abortion is purely hypocritical.
HavelTh3Rock
"BUT BREATH MEANS SOUL HUR HUR"
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
The old testament is also only laws for Jews. Non Jews have the 7 laws of noah but that's it. None of the rest apply
Read Mathew 5:18
IAMOm
"but i don't like that one"
Which part of the old testament is that?
And you may want to muse on the names "old testament" and "new testament"
And find some kind of justification why jesus died. For our... For our. You know, idiots keep saying it but I can't recall
cptcr
well he did say old testament. and it's Matthew with 2 t's
He said the OT is only for jews. I shared a verse that refutes that. The OT law still applies to Christians. Just not the sacrificial stuff
https://aninjusticemag.com/heres-what-the-bible-really-says-about-abortion-f39d8a2a1cde <-decent place to start
furylicious
Not to be a stickler, but this has more to do with making a woman barren. It never actually mentions pregnancy, she just can't conceive.
Read the actual passage. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV Specifically verse 27
I've read multiple sources, it's still technically incorrect translation. We can discuss it in a PM if you like.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Numbers-abortion.html
baraseth
"So, again, Numbers 5:11-31 does not refer to abortion in any sense." - direct quote from article
It's a test of infidelity. If there is a baby it gets aborted. So it's not explicitly about abortion but it shows God is ok with abortion.
shuttlecockinakumquat
Well yeah. That answer is a complete lie. The passage is literally describing an abortion. Christians and honesty don't mix well.
Vysard
This says it doesn't say it's an abortion, doesn't say she was pregnant. So... no?
That's the point. I think they're interpreting this passage as including abortion and pregnancy.
ipvicus
"May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” -not an abortion lol
Lovingimpaler
FFS it's a medical procedure, that's it.
PeteyVonWho
Wow, it's almost like people care more about their interpretation of the Bible, than what's actually written in it.
hoboispope
We. Know. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. You medieval failed state
HOOMANGUY
That's like arguing about spiderman lore. Spiderman ain't real. Nobody should live their lives differently because it says in a book.
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
Respectfully disagree. I think we all should bear in mind that with great power comes great responsibility.
Irbricksceo
The classical rabbinical interprets was life begins 30 days after birth. Infant mortality was simply so damn high….
ILeftMyUsernameInMyOtherPants
Essentially, if you could show you were a survivor then you'd be deemed a person.
ShySapiosexual
DotCommie
I'm tired of people not being able to figure out grey areas. If you wait so long a fetus could survive without you if removed, it's "murder"
DotCommie
...also: You can't charge ppl with injuring/killing 2 EVERY time it involves pregnant lady if you're so sure it's only 1 until outside vag
WeaponizedJerk
Not that I disagree, but that show just sounds like a giant echo chamber.
AdventureBat
Seems the first step here is not confusing Catholicism with the Bible..
KaptenN
Islam might not ban abortion, but I believe that Sharia law does to some extent.
PraiseAzathoth
If you're so ashamed of saying your faith's stance on topics like this... Maybe it's time to get a new faith.
qroniq14
I think this is wonderful. I also think Catholics and Christian’s will use this info to further denigrate Islam and Judaism.
Slayage
This isn't info about İslam, that woman is outright lying about Islams supposedly position on abortion.
edcellente
Well I seem to remember she is right but the limitation is 12(?) weeks
Slayage
The wiki page is decent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion
Attaroo
Psalm 137:9. Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. Don't use the bible for your morality.
OverpricedCrayon
So does restricting abortion infringe on religious freedoms?
edcellente
Every law could be. Depending on how funky the religion is. Doesn’t matter.
JamShady
Muslim here, she completely incorrect about the Islamic position. Contraception is ok, but no abortion after 3 months (when fetus has life)
jmarkson
about as accepted by Muslims as most Christians: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/
Someshithead241
"Is god against abortion." Here's the simple answer. I don't give a fuck. Whether sky daddy likes or not doesn't matter.
BobsBurgerslurker
Life of the pregnant person comes first. What a concept.
nevergoingtogiveyouupnevergoingtoletyoudown
Can't have more babies if she's dead.
Gorthax274
Good logic. But it's also easier to groom and manipulate the young, especially if they have 1 less parent to teach them stranger danger.
VampireTheBuffetSlayer
‘Pregnant person’?
ReallyNotAVampire
I could use a little fuel myself, and we could all use a little... change.
Kennleth
1/ My wife and I watched New Amsterdam while she was pregnant, and at one point one of the characters told her husband "if it's me or the
Kennleth
2/ baby, choose the baby." I looked at my wife and told her. "I'm choosing you 100% of the time." I need her on my team, I can't raise a
Kennleth
3/ baby on my own, and my wife is worth so much more."
edcellente
You are right. But you would likely rise to the occasion.
Kennleth
I conscientiously don't want to be in that position, I'd choose to either try again, or go without before picking that.
VincitQuiSeVincit
ikr?
JohnSmithterms
I dont give a fuck what any of your little mythical books say.
fessusIntellectiva
Numbers 5 described how to perform one as part of a temple ritual.
KrampusCopia
Hiboredimdad
Bit hypocritical of the guy to ban abortion,canonically no one has killed more babies than God himself.In fact he makes many of them suffer
datphone777365
that plan though...
kellerstern
I don't care for any of their views. I don't need religion for that kind of question, AT ALL.
TheGhostOfTheWomanThatCaitlynJennerKilled
I use to think that Japan was a strange place, still do! but America is on another level
HappyPetunia
Abortion has been legal in Japan longer than contraceptive pills, IIRC.
PoopyProblem5
Who gives a fuck if its in the bible? Has anyone actually read that thing? Its stupid whacky shit!
gorillaClutch
the bible specifically says life begins at first breath, so being born.
apoliticalpanda
Cool story. Why should a Muslim, Jew or atheists be forced to do anything the Bible says?
gorillaClutch
agreed. they shouldn't
GodEmperorOfImgur
Well, the Muslim, Jew, and Christian all drink from the same well. They all carry the concept of Pneuma in their texts. That said, they 1/2
GodEmperorOfImgur
obviously shouldn't... but are you then making a non-religious argument against abortion? 2/2
NotSomoneElse68
This is more saying that Christians aren't even following their own fiction.
datphone777365
cus theists love forcing their bs on others?
Eleshar24
Fascists don't care about being consistent, they care about power.
1TrueKingInTheNorth
Yeah but these are all women, we need men's opinion, that's what really matters /s
ISeeAlmostEverything
You should never let a work of fiction dictate you life choices.
Mxlespxles
NEVER FORGET YOUR TOWEL
ISeeAlmostEverything
Now that's just plain good advice right there.
INeverWaitForIt
*Especially* when you take metaphors and stories in that work of fiction as literal fact.
Pgoodso
You can let it INSPIRE your life choices. But Jesus was a teacher using logic, Socratic method and metaphor, not a dictator.
ISeeAlmostEverything
If we're going with fiction, I prefer Mr. Miyagi.
Pgoodso
As long as you use it to get your shit together and find self-confidence instead of use it as an excuse to beat people up, why not?
Lordborgman
But...Star Trek TNG!
ISeeAlmostEverything
Abstinence is just as bad.
noobskills
You're missing the point though... It isn't in the bible. The rule is essentially made up by the leaders of the church.
ISeeAlmostEverything
Which also makes it fiction. kinda.
GCRust
The Organization of Kiddie Diddlers are opposed to lowering the supply of Kiddies to Diddle.
BrutalApathy
"But unwanted children are the easiest!"
HardyandRamanujan
I dunno, I pretend to be Will Hunting on the regular, so...
JericoJones23
Me too! I walk around with a mop and solve math equations im the university! I usually get kicked because i dont actually work there and
JericoJones23
I just write random numbers on the walls but it really gets me through the day
DrunkenMarineBiologist
You must like apples
Imkeepingthisusername
The baaable says that life begins at first breath. It also has handy instructions on primitive abortions without using a hanger.
Kazpur81S
Thought it was three breaths….?
Calise425
If you go back far enough it teaches you how to treat your slaves, too! Really handy piece of text, that bible is.
Polymathena
Citation please?
sinbinrugger
https://compareprivateplanes.com/listing/light/cessna-citation-ii
sinbinrugger
Here you go
blaghart
The Trial of the bitter water in Numbers 5:11-31, Exodus 21:22-25 says abortion ISN'T the same as murder, Hosea 9:14 says that miscarriage
blaghart
is god's will (meaning the law has no right to investigate miscarriages or punish the mother), Isaiah 13:18 says killing the unborn is cool,
PatrikLilja
How does that state that the law have no right to investigate miscarriages?
blaghart
From a biblical standpoint (aka the justification that christians use) miscarriage is god's will, so investigating is questioning god's will
EmanNiemThcin
Spirit = Breath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma#Christianity English translation drops about half the meaning.
EmanNiemThcin
Pneuma is important here because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament compare also anima and ruach.
Polymathena
Really? Downvotes? I guess I should have written 'sauce'?
[deleted]
[deleted]
Polymathena
What narrative? I just want a citation. Methinks you do infer too much.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Calise425
You're asking for proof of something from a work of fiction which is rather oxymoronic to begin with.
Polymathena
Not asking for proof. JUST THE CITATION.
FudgeWeasel
Abortion IS in the bible. It includes instructions on how to perform one. The bible does not ban abortion.
[deleted]
[deleted]
WarpHype
So it’s not called an abortion if the woman was unfaithful? That is just an abortion. And the Bible allows it. I’ve looked it up and read it
Th3Luggage
https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1548744347788640257?s=21&t=bOOVUR7rjkhcjC5uyivmPw
blaghart
I think she meant that "abortion is murder" isn't in the bible.
AsAHistorian
To be fair, it doesn't explicitly say "here's how to end a pregnancy," that's just how some people interpret that passage.
OnlyPositiveFavourites
It also explicitly states that if someone injured a pregnant woman to the point she miscarries it's property theft, not murder
strugglesnuggler
Wouldn't it only be property theft if the baby was a girl? /s
KlatnYelox
It's probably property theft from the father, not the pregnant thing.
strugglesnuggler
You're right. What's the crime for damage to livestock?
KlatnYelox
Usually replacement and a fine on top for the inconvience, I think, though theft also carried loss of hand or other bodily effecting punishm
sniggly5212
WiredWWW
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205:11-31&version=NIV
Ricdesan
This is accurate in scope.
bortlp
Technical correct, but I think the question implied "is it [, the characterization of abortion as murder,] in the bible?" Which it's not.
smellyhippy
The best kind
Pennytheviszla
I am promoting you to bureaucrat grade 36
smellyhippy
An increase of 2 schmekels per day
hamberglar
The catholic church also establishes life as beginning at first breath, so their position regarding abortion is purely hypocritical.
HavelTh3Rock
"BUT BREATH MEANS SOUL HUR HUR"
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
The old testament is also only laws for Jews. Non Jews have the 7 laws of noah but that's it. None of the rest apply
KrampusCopia
Read Mathew 5:18
IAMOm
"but i don't like that one"
KrampusCopia
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
Which part of the old testament is that?
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
And you may want to muse on the names "old testament" and "new testament"
thelegendofthetwistednavigator
And find some kind of justification why jesus died. For our... For our. You know, idiots keep saying it but I can't recall
cptcr
well he did say old testament. and it's Matthew with 2 t's
KrampusCopia
He said the OT is only for jews. I shared a verse that refutes that. The OT law still applies to Christians. Just not the sacrificial stuff
Polymathena
Citation please?
FudgeWeasel
https://aninjusticemag.com/heres-what-the-bible-really-says-about-abortion-f39d8a2a1cde <-decent place to start
furylicious
Not to be a stickler, but this has more to do with making a woman barren. It never actually mentions pregnancy, she just can't conceive.
KrampusCopia
Read the actual passage. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV Specifically verse 27
furylicious
I've read multiple sources, it's still technically incorrect translation. We can discuss it in a PM if you like.
VincitQuiSeVincit
https://www.gotquestions.org/Numbers-abortion.html
baraseth
"So, again, Numbers 5:11-31 does not refer to abortion in any sense." - direct quote from article
KrampusCopia
It's a test of infidelity. If there is a baby it gets aborted. So it's not explicitly about abortion but it shows God is ok with abortion.
shuttlecockinakumquat
Well yeah. That answer is a complete lie. The passage is literally describing an abortion. Christians and honesty don't mix well.
Vysard
This says it doesn't say it's an abortion, doesn't say she was pregnant. So... no?
VincitQuiSeVincit
That's the point. I think they're interpreting this passage as including abortion and pregnancy.
ipvicus
"May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” -not an abortion lol