StVanquish712
101801
1885
119
FP Edit: I made it to the FP on my cake day ... send nudes to congratulate me!
Jan 3, 2018 8:27 PM
StVanquish712
101801
1885
119
FP Edit: I made it to the FP on my cake day ... send nudes to congratulate me!
ChronoDigger
The background art is by Albrecht Dürer from the 16th Century.
Mediathug
Enantiodromia. You’re welcome.
Mediathug
And +1 for this post.
softballguy
We ought not accept evil, but should tolerate the opposing POV. Down the line, you might realize that your POV was the evil one.
Radix865
But what if you're evil from the beginning. I mean dark side is always sexier...and we have cookies.
softballguy
You're right. I'm sold. Cookies!
Cyntakz
Anyone here in the comments defending bigotry is either transparently a bigot or truly doesn’t understand what free speech means and covers.
TheManInTheWall
True but that doesnt mean one should be intolerant
BlueEyesStarterDeck
I think the problem is that people think you can't disagree with someone without being "intolerant"
joeyjojosharknado
Of what? Everyone is intolerant of something. For me it's people that stop at the top of escalators.
Thekingofbeans
Depends on the thing. I think it's fair to not tolerate murder or talking in the theater.
J4nein4ne
Yes, you should. You should be intolerant of evil.
jayar1st
Society depends on intolerance.
fairybug
'Tolerant' and 'decent' have become synonymous, but they are not. I can be polite all day long, but not to evil assholes.
stigmaoftherose
This would be a much better quote if the meaning of intolerant didn't mean something entirely different from how it is used
LOLidontknowwhattoputhere
What do you mean?
sageandonions
How so?
realskramz
-me after my racist blog gets found out and i am being called out on twitter
imeatingpizzaandfuckit
if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against...the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
Thekingofbeans
Depends on what you mean by "defend." If the only way to stop intolerance is with violent censorship then you're not tolerant.
TomBrokaw
False dichotomy. Thank you drive through.
Thekingofbeans
Not sure how that's a false dichotomy. Tolerance isn't about being nice to everyone, it's about accepting their rights.
pelskedyr
Definition of dilemma
TheosophicBlues
But isn't being against bigotry the greatest bigotry of all? /s
Cyntakz
Hence the paradox. But again. A necessary evil
TheGriffin
It's the tolerant paradox. In order to keep our free and tolerant society, we must ensure that Nazis, racists, facists, are not tolerated
channelranger
Not really a paradox. It's perfectly reasonable to not tolerate *ideas*, it's awful to not tolerate a whole group of *people*.
Cyntakz
I was about to bring this up. You can not tolerate intolerance. That is the paradox
TheGriffin
Because intolerance, if tolerated, will overrun tolerance and we'll have another facist dictatorship
JapAnus
It's not a paradox, it's a way to control speech and ideas. Who decides what someone says is hateful? I could make a joke about anything 1/2
Cyntakz
Here’s a good rule of thumb. Is your joke or message that some group doesn’t deserve to exist? Than you’re a bigot. Mystery solved
JapAnus
Using your own logic, are you not saying that the intolerant, as a group, don't deserve to exist?
JapAnus
and be branded a bigot.
TheGriffin
I'm not talking about jokes and stuff. I'm talking about people like Bannon who are threats to a progressive society. I'm not saying 1/>
TheGriffin
2/> should be jailed or whatever. They should be educated and shown why they are wrong. And not educated by force
imeatingpizzaandfuckit
Karl Popper. Not me.
Superslothsays
Carl Poppa https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9aM9Ch97U8
JapAnus
I have to say I disagree. With Karl Popper. And possibly you.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
Tolerance if not fought for will lose, because it's not as appealing to be tolerant. To be tolerant you have to do a lot of things that 1/2
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
Just aren't as attractive to people as being an asshole. Intolerance offers nothing but quick, easy, utterly flawed but pleasing answers.2/2
JapAnus
Popper suggests fighting for tolerance by acting intolerant. Then the lines are blurred, because who decides what is considered 1/2
imeatingpizzaandfuckit
You are welcome to. I urge you to examine what it is he, and John Rawls mean re paradox of tolerance before you make up your mind though
Munchman347
Be more accurate if you replace 'evil' with 'everybody', and 'good' with 'opposition'...
Evenlymade
Ironic
grendelgetskilledinthend
Religion Of Peace.
slimpick
that's why Trump is president. people were done with the evil preaching tolerance
TheosophicBlues
The context really matters here. Are they talking extremist groups like the Nazis or people who want to be treated fairly under the law?
BlackIC
The real problem is that the quote assumes objective morality.
TheosophicBlues
Which, turns out to be the case. Not sure which evil he is talking about here but he opposes LGBT rights (looked him up).
69thStPepper
Sounds good, but I'd be willing to bet this quote was used to justify some seriously heinous shit
wereid
Just like any other thing you could say.
TheThingNoNotThatOne
I mean, is that not what people who complain about "PC culture" say?
TheosophicBlues
AKA people longing for the "good old days" when certain demographics "knew their place".
TheosophicBlues
It's exactly that.
DutchymcDutchface
The church wouldn’t do such a thing, infidel.
AnnieGitchYerGun
Heretic!
Sholan
Exterminatus is the only solution...
ASackOfPotatoes
Something something you western infidel
Slayman3909
JoeMorgue
All quipy little one or two sentence "morals" are generally so vague as to be able to support anything. The real world is complicated.
leodavinci1
The world is simple, so is the universe... it's people that make everything complicated.
HsuDoNihm
The world is *not* complicated. It's very simple: it sucks. To be fair though, *how* it sucks gets very, very complicated.
TinnyOctopus
I hope this comment gets enough upvotes to uncollapse. It's really very good.
HsuDoNihm
My ego thanks you.
StVanquish712
Your statement above is the perfect example of intolerance ... you haven’t even checked to see who this man is and what he stands for .....
rmch99
>who this man is and what he stands for. Took a look. He's pretty homophobic. So yeah, I don't think I agree with what he stands for.
StVanquish712
this is the uneducated, Wikipedia researched, intolerant bullshit that had let “tolerance” become expected ...
TheosophicBlues
What a load of bullshit. This is the mindset that justified the inquisition. How modern people are praising it is beyond me.
StVanquish712
he is alive total, served in Philly, is only the second Native American Archbishop ... that is the epitome of intolerance
69thStPepper
You're right, I was being flippant without doing research, but it is a common tactic to label something as evil to justify greater evil...
69thStPepper
So take a deep breath, I think we're on the same side
ungentlemexican
Well his own words can be applied to his stance with the LGBT community so...
darkninja2992
The thing is that good and evil aren't really real, it's all relative
Magisterial
So basically the whole Trump WH and conservatives in general?
SuperKingofSuperStuff
Sounds like 2017
froggystylez
Oooooh this is deep, getting the popcorn for the comments.....
captainfantasticfasterthansupermantheflashandthehulkcombined
Hey that's what's happening currently in our society, neato
aleister94
Um...no it, it really really isn't
googlearth
So what, were just going to pretend that Charlottesville didn't happen? Nazis want tolerance of their ideas, leftists want them silenced.
aleister94
I literally can't tell if your sarcastically defending nazis or not and that is exactly what's wrong with America right now
CoBr2
I don’t think a lot of tolerance was preached at any point. If anything he’s gotten more tolerant. There isn’t a Muslim registry yet.
Thekingofbeans
That's always happening. The left uses the alt right to attack any republican, the right uses antifa and Berkley college to attack democrats
aleister94
Your lack of situational awareness is disturbing
Thekingofbeans
"I disagree, but I need a really condescending way to say it so even people who side with me don't want to be associated with me..."
CoBr2
Trying to silence people is new though. That's why people freak out about attacking the free press. It's NOT normal
Rexli78
Oh know this has all happened before, back in the 60's and 70's a lot of hard core conservatives and racists honestly supported getting
Rexli78
ride of the first amendment to silence political opponents. Such as communists, socialists, and civil rights advocates
CoBr2
Yeah, it also happened with Sedition act and during Civil War, but it's at least extremely uncommon and not normal.
Thekingofbeans
What? Not it's not. It's become topical again but definitely not new.
CoBr2
Okay, it's uncommon. It happened with Sedition act, during Civil War, and McCarthyism, but overall it is very not normal.
Thekingofbeans
It becomes topical every decade or two. In the early 2000s there was shitloads of it in the post 9/11 frenzy towards any who opposed war.
LyvPhreeOarDye
Bullshit, this has no basis in fact, it just sounds good.
Z3roCo0l
Hail satan!
Robbann
like when that fuck Erdogan said "Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off"
warick
TygrF
Weird, because Roslyn here is quoting one of the Dune novels...
warick
Yes, Calvin and Muad'dib
TygrF
Haha. Brilliantly warped. Thank you!
warick
I've got a few saved. I use them in comments when appropriate, but i really should make a post of them.
TygrF
I'd seen the first one before, but didn't realize it was a series. Please post!
thedmoninme
The irony of the a priest saying that. How did the church spread it's power? Ah yes through the quality of its violence not it's "wisdom".
evildadunit
Don't be intolerant of intolerance
LiteralNazi
Soooo... ANTIFA and BLM
YouNeedtoChill
Considering Chaput's own views on gays, the guy seems pretty intolerant so what is he really saying here?
Thekingofbeans
Evil preaches tolerance so he's going on the opposite direction to Bugs Bunny it.
Mediathug
Look up the Jungian term, “enantiodromia”. Chaput was stating a law of nature without realizing he himself is vulnerable to it.
misterwit
https://lifeondoverbeach.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/archbishop-chaput-tolerance-is-not-a-christian-virtue from vikingbunnyninja's comment.
YouNeedtoChill
Wow. Just wow.
Cyzyk
Considering he is an archbishop in a country with free speech, do you find it wrong that he encourages people to be frank in their belief?
misterwit
I mean he's not wrong. All he said was that tolerance isn't how you make things better, and in fact it is a sin to tolerate evil. I don't >>
misterwit
>>agree with everything he considers to be evil, but his outlook on being active about discussing what you think is right is commendable.
Bearmandog
The ones who claim to be the most tolerant are usually the least tolerant. Go to a US college and say something the left disagrees with.
flapperfemmefatale
I've done similar, but to the right :)
Bearmandog
You went to a conservative college and they banned you from speaking. Highly unlikely.
flapperfemmefatale
Not a college, although I did attend one for the first two years of undergrad...you think liberal colleges are bad...
aleister94
wow you just have no connection to reality at all do you?
TheosophicBlues
...You mean college educated people might disagree with something for being factually wrong and morally bankrupt? How intolerant!
illbeinmybunkknockfirst
“Dude you can’t say the n word” “See? You lib tards are the intolerant ones!”
Mimsey
Most unis.* Try Oral Roberts University. Bash the Left there and you'll be fine. Criticize the Right and see how it goes.
tcc3
Go anywhere and say anything any one disagrees with
Shinycapn
Couldn’t also be that college students are 18-22 years old, could it?
Cyzyk
It's not the students that are the problem. They are mostly sheep, which is to be expected.
BuickRiviera
If someone is intelligent enough to get a full-ride thru a good school they're hardly sheep.
Cyzyk
They've probably learned to shut the hell up and nod when someone else's money is on the line.
GeneTheAwkward
Or be white and say you want to learn more about (race you aren't).
aleister94
I know us white people are just most helpless victims on earth aren't we
GeneTheAwkward
Look man I just want to be able to ask honest questions so I can be less of an asshole without meaning to. I do it enough on purpose.
GeneTheAwkward
Apparently wanting to be a better person is a no-no.
BuickRiviera
Only people who haven't been to college think it's some leftist hippie circle jerk.
illbeinmybunkknockfirst
For real I went to a major state school in the south in early 2000s and all you could ever see were those nauseating W stickers everywhere
aleister94
Exactly, higher education doesn't teach people to be liberal it just teaches them objective facts that happen to oppose conservative 1/2
aleister94
2/2 Propaganda
Crowlands
I'm left. I'm pro free speech, and that gets me labelled a Nazi sympathiser.
aleister94
No it doesn't quit pretending this is a thing that happens
Crowlands
You are aware that there are people who are not you, yes? That other people can experience things you haven't, or do actions you wouldn't?
BlackIC
Obviously. Hitler was really big on free speech. It's the cornerstone of facism, really.
Crowlands
AntiFascism is, of course, violently opposing free speech, assaulting all who disagree with you, and burning books that you don't like.
thisisnothealthy
I think we should speak up against Nazis. Their hateful rhetoric should not be spewed.
aleister94
And this is somehow considered a radical idea in today's America
Mewmus
then attacked by antifa
Thekingofbeans
Same here. The Neo Nazis hurt themselves by being allowed to speak. No need to abandon free speech because of the few.
Neoptelemus
This, I don't get how anyone's speech apart from that directly advocating violence should be criminal
Thekingofbeans
Well even just talking about violence is okay depending on context.
toasteheh
This is Social Justice at the moment. Intolerance in the name of tolerance.
TheosophicBlues
There are also social injustice warriors. I'll take annoyingly self-righteous over anyone supporting inequality, supremacy, and oppression.
toasteheh
Most people support equality. They just don't buy into this "oppression" that supposedly exists in western societies.
TheosophicBlues
Ah right. This is imgur, where the only racism is against whites and the alt-right is about economic uncertainty.
toasteheh
Where did I say that? Way to act like a total SJW. Always has to be an extreme with you people.
TheosophicBlues
You say to the person who called SJW annoyingly self-righteous. Your suggestion was just a tired Alt-right talking point; common on imgur.
channelranger
You can't just use tolerance to mean everything. Everyone is intolerant of something. I'm sure you don't tolerate people attacking you.
channelranger
and it's perfectly reasonable to criticize people for being discriminatory towards entire groups due to inaccurate preconceived notions.
tcc3
No this is the Strawman "social justice"
Thekingofbeans
How is this a strawman? There are decently sized groups that advocate censorship in the name of social justice.
BuickRiviera
No.
Thekingofbeans
What do you mean no? This is an easily verifiable fact.
toasteheh
Great response man!
Rexli78
and there's a decent amount of people who advocate the same in opposition to them.
Thekingofbeans
So what? That just means they're not the only people advocating censorship but in no way means they aren't advocating censorship themselves.
toasteheh
Was that supposed to be a counter argument? We don't want censorship of any ideas/speech, SJW or not.
Rexli78
Far too many people think it's only one side. Which only contributes to the power of both sides.
alexjonesisagayfrog
Well that's just the most hugely incorrect statement ever the worst people in history never preached tolerance the best did so fuck off mate
everythingisalieexceptthestuffthatisnt
I think it's more about how the kkk or westBoro Baptists whinge about being allowed to do their thing even tho "their thing" is being cunts
alexjonesisagayfrog
Knowing the dudes a bishop makes me think it's probably some anti gay nonsense I hope you're right but I've heard the alt say this bullshit
everythingisalieexceptthestuffthatisnt
Good point, and lmao your username
alexjonesisagayfrog
Thank you sir
v
vikingbunnyninja
Full quote here https://lifeondoverbeach.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/archbishop-chaput-tolerance-is-not-a-christian-virtue/
misterwit
Chaput IS against gay marriage, but on this particular subject, I like what he says. People should openly oppose things they disagree with>>
misterwit
>>but in a way that is respectful. If people are too scared to voice their opinions, we will end up with a society worse than if we argued.