wjfox2011
90494
833
20
Jun 24, 2023 9:19 AM
wjfox2011
90494
833
20
WowSoSparkly
I'll give him credit for getting in the death pringles can himself.
FairfaxJack
Elon and his stupid "self driving" cars
thatwoodguy
The lawsuits from this are going to be masturbated over furiously by lawyers who want to get in on the action
ArgentXero
In my race for innovation, I don't care who I have to sacrifice!
nojustsayitdont
Here's a couple things to notice. He didn't have to 'innovate' at all. It was not much more than a sales gimmick and an excuse to cheap out. Even so, at $250,000 a ticket, did he pass that savings on to his clients> No. He abso-fucking-lutely did not. It's like Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Or CDs. Or streaming for that matter. WITH No SupplY ChaiN ConsuMERs wiLL paY LeSs. yeah, right buddy.
knightoftempest
Arrogance and stupidity all in the same package, how efficient of him.
BDBottom
Like your hairdo.
certainlynotaserialkiller
Marsmallowmancer
After reading this and other correspondences from the guy, it is really good this expedition failed. If it hadn't, it would have set a lot of precedents and a lot more people would have died
artie500
"I take this as a serious personal insult." He should have taken it a a serious warning!
OneUniverse
Stockton Rush murdered 4 people though sheer incompetence.
Lp57
"Damn your "safety regulations" to hell! I'll show you... I'll show you all!!"
OneUniverse
I think we need a rule that every inventory need to prove his invention dozens of times Risking their own lives if they fail.
TheOneTrueZippy8
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Bitch.
MarkRavingMad
Dude died from a terminal case of not listening to his engineers.
sadurdaynight
Now imagine this exchange.. but he's the CEO of a car manufacturing company talking about cars he wants to sell you. Or, he's talking about how skirting around some OSHA safety regs will pad the profits a bit at the risk of employees. There's the mind-set being dealt with every day. I had a sales director one time approach me with an idea that would increase profits.. if we just ignored regulatory regulations. I told head of regulatory, and she yelled at him. But, that's the mind-set.
Einstein9073
I can't tell if this is just generic billionaire evil or if this anecdote is specifically about Elon Musk
edasm
Only one of them is dead,,,
januarylover
This is where the attack on educated people is leading us. The book bans. The distrust of leading experts. People 'doing their own research' on vaccines. People calling scientists and engineers 'the elite'. Flat earth. All this nonsense. So many people online and irl can't admit when they don't know everything and trust in the real experts, who've read everything, studied everything, the pedants and nerds, the specialists, the 'leftists' who demand regulations etc.
idrinkcheapbeer
If you want a behind the scenes look at this amateur shit show clown car, check this out: https://youtu.be/O-8U08yJlb8
Mr21782Man
Not hubris, rich. He believed he was wealthy because he was better than everyone else, more innovative, better at seeing solutions. Especially better than the engineers that put things together, because they didn't start their own company and made billions. Physics, doesn't give a fuck if you have money.
therandombagofmeat
DeltaBladeX
Svartlebee
I think most metals have galvanic corrosion?
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
Certain combinations exacerbate corrosion.
haki23
being compressed in about a few nanoseconds creates immense heat, so they probably shot out as vaporized hydrocarbon compounds
wheelersdealer
That's what the red is for
heptadecagram
“At that point, you are no longer biology but rather physics”
DickGenie
Just watched Erin Burnett of CNN describe the victims, "gasping for air." dafuq
NiceGreenArrows
Considering the knocking noise, and the multiple days of "they could still be fine, we worked out how much air they had", outdated info getting left in the script...
HelloMax
Or it’s being left there intentionally.
Nuttsy
Talking heads don't get out of the talky box much anymore, and it shows.
cayal
"What do you think we're going to do? Kill someone?" - Guy who killed somone
ivymantled69
You arrogant ass. You've killed us!
softballguy
Filanwizard
This would not have happened if the sub was built with an engineering focus.
Jayboots
Pure sociopathic hubris.
pancakeEwokEscapade
What do you call an engineer who graduated with a D? An engineer. Watching a few hours of youtube, and a little understanding of the forces involved, a little knowledge of materials, and you'd know that thing was doomed. They thought 4.5" of carbon fiber was enough. They put 5". 11% safety margin. STUPID. No beacon. Flammable materials. No escape hatch for surfacing. Insanity. Reckless disregard for safety and life, and he takes that as a personal insult.
RadishRabbit
Whats that curve? The Dunnig-Kreuger effect was it? The less you know the more confident you are, something like that. This was some billionaire who spent his money how he wanted to try and make a company, ignoring the shit out of naysayers and... engineers. He was an idiot who ignored or fired the experts. Rich people tend to be fucked up in the head.
anotherdickat
Rich people tend to be fucked up in the head. --- lots of people are fucked up in the head, rich people are just more spectacular in their fuckups. I can hardly wait for the cage match.
cwblackandyellow
Did you mean “Capitalism”?
TheWombatStrikesAgain
At least this hubris took him down too. 99% of cases like this it's "It's perfectly safe. No, I won't try it myself. ... Oh, something happened? No comment. My lawyers will send the families a standardised letter about how theoretically sorry I am. ... Okay your honor, I will pay the 5k$ fine and maybe consider following some safety standards in the future. Or I'll just make people sign a more comprehensive waiver. We'll see. After all, genius innovators like me can't be restricted by rules."
KuldFyt
I mean, it's cut pretty heavily with profit motives.
Navrodel
Unfortunately, it's the "entrepreneur" spirit vs a field where nothing moves forward without well-researched consensus. There's a good reason why "cheap" airlines still use industry standards - because new regulations pop up after other cheap companies get people killed, and *everyone* has to follow the new standard, or they can't fly. Because if they did, they'd get someone killed - again. If he had - somehow - come up with a carbon-fiber/titanium composite that was better than the standard >
Navrodel
> at a fraction of the cost, the community would have *celebrated* his expertise and the lowered barrier to deep-sea exploration. Actual innovation in a technical field like that is exciting! But it has to move forward slowly, because the ocean floor is littered with the debris from people that have tried better and failed - and it paints a clear picture of what happens if you don't wait until you fail *before* you put people in the sub.
SallyMcCrumbles
He fucked around with safety. Unfortunately, he wasn’t alone when he found out.
wjfox2011
And I don't even think he "found out" – he was likely dead before knowing what even happened.
SallyMcCrumbles
Yes, mercifully so. I read somewhere that the pressure would generate temperatures in excess of 200,000 degrees in that swift and brutal moment.
PimpinKen
"Finding out" doesn't necessarily mean the person learns anything... they just suffer the catastrophic yet easily avoidable consequences.
Nuttsy
Well, yes, but the fucker was probably still thinking he's right with the last fucking thought passing through his candywrapper of a brain. And that irks us.
Euchre
Carbon fiber is super rigid, but frangible - it fails by shattering. That means no compliance, no warning, virtually zero yield indicated before catastrophic failure. That sub probably imploded without a sign.
artie500
Supposedly, the port wasn't rated for the desired depth and should have just given way and drowned everybody before implosion. I guess not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
somnif
I believe that view port issue was on an older model of the sub not the one in the incident. But certainly highlights a toxic safety culture
AllTheGoodOnesWereGone
The main point is that you make pressure vessels out of carbon fiber just fine, because cf is strong in TENSION and the pressure is INSIDE. It makes no real sense to use cf to make a vessel where it is going to get compressed from the outside because you get really no benefit from the useful properties of the material.
executivedisfunction
A well understood matter in aviation, where the epoxy is often the compressive resistance material, the CF the tension carrying material. When I saw he'd used CF for the pressure vessel, red flags everywhere.
jediknightswhosayni
I'm sure that company won't get sued into oblivion. Relatives of billionaires wouldn't do that, right? /s
dmjalund
TheSilverSeraph
"But...but they signed a waiver!!!" said OceanGate's ultimately unsuccessful defense lawyer https://www.reuters.com/world/titanic-sub-victims-families-could-still-sue-despite-liability-waivers-2023-06-22/
Aaronb1138
On the flip side the best defense is to say "billionaires too cheap to fund research that gets them a ride on Alvin". Besides, the families will be too busy in-fighting in probate court. There are a handful of socially decent billionaires and they're almost all household names some might actually mourn. And that same micro sub group is all too smart to do an Ocean Gate trip.
Shutupandpour
I wonder how the waiver they presumably signed is gonna stand up in court.
mrthewhitee
They won't.
Euchre
Virtually no waivers stand up to enough legal fortitude in court. If you can hire a good enough lawyer, and reason your way around any part of it, especially any part being irrational, you can nullify it. If you can get it to a jury, they can definitely be convinced to nullify it. Those waivers are to keep average people from suing (because they can't afford it), especially when doing not average things.
TheSocialRecluse
I wonder if it is possible to have a waiver “pre approved” by the courts (instead of reliance on common law) that would certify its enforceability.
AgamemnonsMemes
Waivers can't negate negligence.
LeMegachonk
You typically can't waive damages due to negligence or intentional acts. It's becoming very clear that this company's approach to safety was egregiously negligent in all aspects of their operations.
meigea11
About as well as the submersible worked.
IdiotSavantTinker
The people who died signed a wavier, but did their relatives?
Vercci
Wouldn't that mean the only claim they'd have is emotional damage from the loss? Since the owner of the wasted life signed it away I mean.
IdiotSavantTinker
I honestly have no idea. I'm just a guy who draws pictures for a living, I'm just curious about how these waivers are typically defeated.
astromoondoggie
The tldr:
Vergenbuurg
Sixsystems
Muffin Button +1