Kentucky: "if a property owner believes an unhoused trespasser is attempting to commit a felony or attempting to “dispossess” them, they can shoot the homeless person."

Mar 16, 2024 7:10 PM

Jbelkin

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On March 14, the Kentucky Senate Judiciary Committee voted to approve HB 5, the “Safer Kentucky Act.” The legislation will now head to the Senate floor for a vote, and it will almost certainly pass. The 78-page bill criminalizes homelessness—and decriminalizes the use of deadly force against individuals engaging in “unlawful camping.” Under this law, if a property owner believes an unhoused trespasser is attempting to commit a felony or attempting to “dispossess” them, they can shoot the homeless person.

Kentucky lawmakers had lifted it, in part, from model legislation published by the Cicero Institute, a conservative think tank founded by Palantir alum Joe Lonsdale that focuses “on fixing broken systems in the public sector.”

According to the Cicero Institute, the think tank’s “model legislation has been enacted in Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Utah,” and its homelessness policies have advanced in legislatures in 20 states.

The Safer Kentucky Act creates the opportunity for vigilantism against “violent crime”—with impacts far beyond the homeless population. The state already has strong “stand your ground” laws. Individuals do not have to retreat before using deadly force and are immune from prosecution or civil action. Police are also generally forbidden from arresting anyone who used such force. A 2022 study found that “stand your ground” laws led to an 8 to 11 percent increase in gun homicides and violent deaths. HB 5 expands these laws. In speech on the House floor, Democratic state Representative Keturah Herron argued that the bill “takes us back to 1955, when it was OK to hunt people down based on an accusation.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/kentucky-crime-bill/

She stole my heart. Things went downhill after a few months so I kicked her out. Therefore she committed a crime and is now homeless.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I am always impressed about the name of the bill and what it actually does. It is called "The safer Kentucky" act, but its true title is the "Feel free to murder the homeless" act.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Do you have to get proof of residency before you shoot someone?

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Well that's a new take on "turn the other cheek". But hey, you do you Kentucky.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Everyone who signed off on that bill should share the fate of those who will suffer under it.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Saying "Republicans want to hunt the poor for sport" isn't even an exaggeration.

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

If a Republican wanders onto their property at night? What happens if someone assumes they’re homeless?

2 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

They knocked at my door, they had a handful of papers, I could only assume they were homeless and trying to break my door down to commit murder... the fact the papers were for republican election canvasing is irrelevant, the law says the moment of judgment is what matters.

2 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Probably was collecting those papers to keep warm. Only makes sense if they found a clipboard in the trash to hold them together.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

The list of states you couldn’t pay me to live in grows and grows.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

They're "united."

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Is "Safer" an acronym or something because this sounds like the opposite of making Kentucky safer.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Remind me to never go hiking in Kentucky

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Societies are judged by how the treat their weakest members.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

"well, you see sherrif, I shot your men, because they were on my lawn, and it felt like they were homeless and coming to dispossess me, so I'm not in trouble right?"

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Well, fuck it - go all in. If you are homeless, you might as well go on the offensive and commit a home invasion. Congratulations fuckwits.

2 years ago | Likes 72 Dislikes 5

Is it self defense if you're committing a B&E?

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Robber breaks into house via sun roof, Falls lands on nail sues.

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Depends on who is left alive to argue

2 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

as with most of history

2 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Do they have a veto-proof majority? I assume this will be vetoed by the Democratic governor if passed.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

there are some in the rest of the world that see America still as the Wild, Wild West. this sort of legislation just enshrines that belief both outside and inside America.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

well whats the definition of unhoused? cause once you on the porch you too are unhoused. 'Now son you get em to come outside, I'll get inside and defend us.'

2 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 3

According to the bill summaries, it is basically up to the murderer to determine based on "reasonable factors" that are of course undefined in any way. If you think they might possibly be homeless, then they have no protections under the state law, even if they are proven otherwise after the fact, the moment of judgment is prioritized. And it also says they only have to be seen seeming to attempt or considering committing a potential felony.. so also super vague and undefined behaviour.

2 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

So if a Kentucky lawmaker solicits at your house, you might legitimately think they’re homeless trying to rob you.

2 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

You seem to be under the delusion that GOP laws are evenly applied

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

No I'm under the delusion that people get what they deserve.

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Ah, fairly similar chances of it happening

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

So camping on some yuppies lawn is now justification for pre-meditated murder in KY?

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

For all people complaining about gerrymander in Texas, KY has a Dem governor but a veto-proof GOP supermajority thanks to gerrymandered districts enforced by their supreme court.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As a land owner i have a lot of words to say about homeless, migrants etc etc but the thought about shooting them has never crossed my mind, like what kind of sick fuck would try to get that into a law.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Remember if you are of average empathy, morality or intelligence half the people you meet will be on a lower level than you.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

and half will be better people than you

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Laws like this, and the thinking that produces laws like this, is probably why red states are seeing skyrocketing murder rates.. "Malignant Entitlement" probably needs to become an actual category of modern sick societies.

2 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Step 1: make everyone poor
Step 2: legalize murdering the poor
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!!!

2 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 5

I mean if someone breaks into my house I’m prepared to shoot them if they have ill intentions, but if I can safely extrapolate that the person isn’t there to harm me or my loved ones then I see no reason in letting them go

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

If someone breaks into my house, they have ill intentions. If you don't have ill intentions, you knock on the door. Home invasion is not something that should be taken lightly. Arrest, at minimum.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The US decline continues.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

So, if ya own a rental or try to sell a vacant house and somebody pulls a “California squatter” move - ya can shoot em? Hell ya

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

“takes us back to 1955", uh yeah, that what "Again" means in MAGA. You know, when it was great to be a white property owner! /s

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I'm from Kentucky and am just so disgusted. It's genuinely so disheartening and frustrating to see such bullshit like this. I know people who have been/are homeless, and to think they could just be walking through someone's wooded land or a yard and get SHOT for it...makes me so sick :(

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

This just sounds like more aggressive wording of the “Stand Your Ground” laws.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Except because it is so vague, and the perpetrator doesn't have to act, only be seen "potentially thinking about maybe committing" a crime to be shot dead. And Dispossessing is too vague a term, it basically means using property without express permission, eg: throwing out your hotdog wrapper at the 7/11 garbage bins at the pumps can count if you didn't ask permission first. Or walking between two businesses in their alley, you are using the alley without permission.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

A reminder that the "Amendment" to permit weapon ownership is for the sake of national defense vs foreign invaders. Internal strife is not the same.

2 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

It's also intended keep the militia armed, which is now our National Guard and Ready Reserve forces. Don't misunderstand, I'm a supporter of the 2A (Scalia's interpretation), which means I support private gun ownership for self-defense, but they should stop pretending they're doing anyone else any favors.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

A reminder that it doesn't actually say that. It's quite open to interpretation, like tea leaves, and lines on your palm.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

(which is a criticism of your constitution and method of government in general, not any one particular law/amendment)

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Dispossess, as in take their property/house? Is that even a real thing or just a "I was afraid he was gonna take my doublewide away from me so I shot him 17 times in the back" kind of thing? Isn't the bank or state far more likely to do that?

2 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

In many (not all) US states, if you squat on property long enough, it's yours by "adverse possession". The most frequent use of it is in cases of accidental encroachment of a structure onto a neighboring property that goes undetected for a long time, like a neighbor builds a garage that's just a bit over the property line and nobody notices at the time. But it can be used for outright squatting. It typically takes something like 20 years to run, though.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

its for shitty land lords that have empty houses and someone just moves in to sqat. Now they can just walk in and shoot those people.

2 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

In Kentucky that takes 15 consecutive years of illegal occupancy, seems like they don’t mean that specifically

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It should be illegal for a residential landlord to have a (purposefully) empty house.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

They should attract escalating financial penalties.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

And the bill says "contemplating or considering to dispossess", how do you know that random guy on the street that may or may not be homeless is thinking about MAYBE squatting in an empty home (Or on private company property like in an alleyway or by a bin)?

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Did humans evolve telepathy overnight or something? When does Psi Corps become a thing?

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

its going to be a lot of fun for these future murderers to explain to the judge how they knew the person they killed was a homeless person.

2 years ago | Likes 123 Dislikes 4

Bold to assume they will even be charged, let alone have to face a judge.

2 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I bet it doesn't matter. The dude looked homeless so I was in the right.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Well, you see, they've been wearing police uniforms to try to fool you; obvious ruse.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

they don't need to KNOW. they only need to SUSPECT. this is basically an open warrant on anyone in the state, resident or visitor. it was already highly unlikely that i would ever visit Kentucky simply due to distance and lack of any reason to visit it. BUT, this provides a more than ample reason to never visit or even drive through the state, EVER.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I reckon if you did enough digging a few politicians who voted for this wouldn’t own a home… oh I’m sure trusts and other apparatus they have connections to own homes. But not them.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

They have a handy color chart to consult.

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Bingo.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I'm sure the law will be designed to error on the side of the murderer, as long as the murderer is white.
Might be more complicated if the murderer is black and the "homeless" person was white though. Unless that black person had golden sneakers and a MAGA hat. They might make allowances for that black guy.

2 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 0

In fairness, they don't even seem to make exceptions for them. They are treated just as badly as the rest of us POC and still stick around like idiots.

2 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Yeah, I was being more ironic than logical but I agree with your point.

2 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

"Judge, I truly believed my wife was a homeless person!"

2 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 0

"I kicked her out then shot her"

2 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 0

Now you get it

2 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

ah, the pistorius defence. very novel.

2 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

Anyone wanna play the Pistorius drinking game?

Every time you go to the bathroom, take four shots.

2 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I seen him over by the trash cans last week that's how i knew he didn't have a home.

2 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

so he just shot the waste collector....

2 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Boys will be boys *bangs gavel* charges dismissed

2 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

Also how they knew the person was planning to commit a felony. I bet a huge majority of these people don't know the difference between felony offenses and misdemeanor to begin with.

2 years ago | Likes 61 Dislikes 0

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2 years ago (deleted May 20, 2024 10:14 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

No, that's the legal excuse white people will use to shoot non-white people because they "felt threatened".

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

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2 years ago (deleted Jul 27, 2024 9:06 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

I didn't say shit about what the law actually says, I said it's the legal excuse white people will use. Learn to read before you call anyone an idiot, champ.

2 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Isn't that what they call the police for. If they're "taking over" it means they're there and not going to run off unless they're made to leave.

This is just cutting out homicidal cops to commit murder yourself.

2 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

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2 years ago (deleted May 20, 2024 10:19 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

The people? Or the GOP legislature

2 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Your original comment made it sound like you were in support, it is why it's getting a negative reception.

2 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0