michaelllclark
179360
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May 4, 2017 8:12 PM
michaelllclark
179360
3945
335
morgan0073
How else is a doctor suppose to live like kings and have yachts and hookers
zoogz
Or has a staff with someone knowledgeable in memeology.
IdAppreciateDickPicsIWould
Now you're just giving me hope in regards to my employability.
Mushroombadger
Yes everyone knows all memes ever come from imgur and anyone who uses them must be from here too.
Thereisnopatchingstupid
I'm glad you recognize this fact. *nods sagely*
Not2religious
Hit deductible last year and had procedure on lumbar. Got a bill from December for another $561 this week.
stimpsonjcatt
You are speaking crazy!
benovere
Don't know, but that image wasn't made with imgur's meme maker. It's also not exclusive to imgur.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Gonnaderpya
Swing and a miss op
BalfMalark
Imgur owns all memes, didnt you hear?
Relgap
Maybe because she used it incorrectly and displayed a popular opinion, like most imgur users do?
Andalite
Imgur has a meme maker?
benovere
Yes, IDK how to use it on android, but any meme made on imgur will have 'made on imgur' in the lower right corner.
Andalite
I don't think imgur has it on Android since I've tried to make things with the app before and had to resort to iFunny instead
Heckspress
>ifunny
Dynamite651
I didn't know Imgur had a meme maker, how to access it
DoublevBomb
GoFundMe - if you see a link for it on this site, 99% chance it's to cover american medical costs. The remaining 1% is for pet vet care.
azgrak
Looking at it from an investment perspective some some healthcare providers, mostly hospitals, are incredibly profitable. Buy voting stock!
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
... yeah sure I've got an extra $500,000 I've been looking to spend on something
flarflarf
single payer please.
dialysisinflictor
Is she still being investigated by the FBI?
imooforyou
Isn't Trump?
MisfitToy
Except the part where the government has NO POWER to force a private business or practice to change their pricing.
23569072358345672
No one on earth the should have to pay for anything to keep them from dying.
GandalfUnicorn
Jesus, y'all also believe in the geocentric model instead of the heliocentric model? This site isn't the beginning or center of most things.
srsgiraffe
Living in EU might not be perfect but atleast my latest hospital bill was 35,70€ (=39,12 $) .
Huhwhatcrazy
You mean Epi-pens shouldn't cost $600 in US and only $15 across the border in Canada?
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[deleted]
DoublevBomb
"A human life has no dollar value, unless you can get people to have to pay you just to live."
MerToo
jebus fuck, that's a good one. Who said that?
DoublevBomb
Me. Though it's entirely possible I'm half-quoting someone else and not realizing it.
canIbethebigspoon
Where in Canada do you get them for $15? I haven't seen any under $85 here.
sorosfieldops
CAPITALISM!
Mavgurian
This is very far from what the word capitalism once meant.
sorosfieldops
But it is what it means now
Mavgurian
Yeah, maybe, whatever, dude.
ItAintGayIfItsAFemininePenis
Get the offbrand, or get the epinephrine itself. Much easier and cheaper, plus you can administer multiple doses (which is sometimes needed)
deathreapper9271
I don't think there was ever a offhand epipen until the real ones raises in price.correct me if I'm wrong though.
ItAintGayIfItsAFemininePenis
When you buy an epipen, youre paying for the delivery system. Epinephrine has been around for years.
MoistMouthMags
my insurance payed $590 for a bag of saline (salt water)
twfeline
For example.
TotallyNotTheNSAGuys
Not according to our records
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
HA!
ZombieBorscht
Hello there fellow kids
Bortus
Nah man, she actually used the meme right.
kukupuff
EricFromAccounts
What??
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[deleted]
EricFromAccounts
No I know, the girl then says to Steve Buscemi, "What??"
TheTrueQuarian
These assholes don't even know the entire meme.
kukupuff
EricFromAccounts
No I know, the girl then says to Steve Buscemi, "What??"
uowaep
Boycott the medical industry. Don't use it unless you absolutely have to.
TheTrueQuarian
But the when you have to it charges you your life savings and 2 of your limbs to fix anything.
LordGeneralHammerSmash
Why not both?
SvprHanc
If healthcare is affordable, do you need affordable healthcare insurance?
TheAssassinArtemisEntreri
Of course. If you get Brain Cancer and need 10 surgeries, the fact that the Surgeries cost only 5k each instead of 20k is still 50k. A lot
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Well, yeah but 5k each is still not really "affordable" for the average person. If we made healthcare truly affordable doctors would make 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
like 50k a year. That shouldn't happen. Healthcare should be cheaper than it is b/c hospital directors shouldn't make as much as they do 2
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
but it still shouldn't be affordable to the average person without insurance. However, every single person should be covered by insurance.
SvprHanc
Coo coo..
TheAssassinArtemisEntreri
We get insurance because some things just cost a lot & cutting 10k in half is still 5k which I can't pay as lump sum. Insurance spreads risk
YouCantGetDiseasesFromABird
Thank you. Insurance is fiscal risk mitigation, not a guarantee of being magically cured of everything
MerToo
uh-huh, but that doesn't explain all those other countries where parasitic insurer middlemen barely exist and healthcare still happens.
TheAssassinArtemisEntreri
You're talking about single payer most likely and of course that is the long term goal. But not while citizens need to front huge cost.
MerToo
I'ma have to figure out what this "single payer" thing really means. In New Zealand I just walk in and out of a hospital for "free".
MerToo
*cue some fuckwit droning on about how it's not really "free"
TheAssassinArtemisEntreri
Yeah, that's single payer, that is the final goal, but it will never go down right now. So we move incrimentally.
swinglinered
1/2 @OP That's not how insurance works. The idea is a risk pool. Risk pool. People may or may not have a financially devastating illness.
swinglinered
2/2 There is no way to simply make that "affordable" unless it was a free national system.
michaelllclark
Let's have a free national system then!
swinglinered
And make the Mexicans pay for it!
forelle
Shit. If only there where other nations who managed to do this.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
There really aren't. Everyone in this thread is misunderstanding the quote. Other nations still have expensive healthcare (maybe not AS 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
expensive as the US) they just have single-payer insurance where the government foots the bill. If you had affordable healthcare, 2
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
insurance would no longer be necessary because people could afford to pay out of pocket. That would actually be a terrible system, though 3
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
because hospitals would only be able to pay doctors an average wage. Doctors SHOULD be rich. They're fucking important. 4/4
forelle
Medical Technology and personal costs much, because it pushes the edge of what is possible on multiple frontiers. What is weird from an ¹
AsABiologistWhoIsNotFunAtParties
No "maybe", the US literally has the least efficient system of all 1st world countries.
FlorbFnarb
The government can't just make health care affordable. It can stop making it more expensive though.
FlorbFnarb
Stop taxing medical devices and driving the costs up, for one thing.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
The problem is that if an incredibly complicated and high risk surgery is made "affordable" then the people who perform said surgeries 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
won't get paid very much money. IMO doctors are an extremely valuable part of society and deserve their high salaries. We need healthcare 2
burpwind
Insurance doesn't lower costs.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
I'm not arguing that it does. I'm arguing that it's a necessity for medical costs to be high so that doctors can make the money they deserve
ashackatak
That's ridiculous, no other developed country pays their doctors as much as the USA, and it's not justifiable.
MerToo
heh, it also makes it seem that the reason Americans can't get enough healthcare is the doctors are too greedy for money??
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
insurance b/c those procedures HAVE to be expensive. The person performing it has an incredibly specialized skillset gleaned from YEARS of 1
ashackatak
...And you can go to any other 1st world country and pay a fraction for what are usually better (as ranked buy the WHO) doctors.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
expensive schooling. Furthermore, we want to encourage the best and brightest to go into that field with high salaries. The average person 3
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
shouldn't just be able to pay an oncologist out of pocket because an oncologist should be much richer than the average person. 4/4
Notme68
It's not the life saving surgery that's costing the tax payers so much, its the ER visits instead of a GP.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Well, it's both. More so the ER visits. We don't need cheap healthcare we need UNIVERSAL healthcare insurance. Whether that should be done 1
MerToo
thousands of skilled surgeons work all over the world for various rates of pay. All you get in the US are the ones that care more for money
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Look, I'm ALMOST a socialist but even I still retain enough capitalist ideology to think that people's value to society should be 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
reflected in their salaries. 2/2
MerToo
Ah yes, if it's "value to society", coupla hundred grand for a surgeon seems reasonable - and maybe regular floggings for derivative traders
srsfaceI8C
Fun fact: The new GOP's new proposed bill makes complications from being sexually assaulted count as a pre-existing condition.
DoublevBomb
GrassfedChicken
Next week: Classifying children from the rape as a "condition" so they are ineligible for coverage.
theyar
Those two things are completely unrelated. The point is that you can't wait until you need health insurance and then go get it.
srsfaceI8C
Any complications that might arise in my niece who was raped at 5 years old, when she goes to get health coverage, won't be able to.
theyar
That's very likely not going to be true. Either way, it isn't because she was raped, it's because she didn't have insurance.
srsfaceI8C
Good to know 5 year olds need to have their own insurance at 5 years old in case something horrible happens to them. Get real, dude.
theyar
They need to be convered, yeah. Regardless, my point is that rape is a political distraction that has nothing directly to do with this.
MossfromIT
Some companies have refused coverage to people because they took anti-HIV drugs (pre-existing condition) after they were raped.
Yellow47
I agree, insurance is a horrible middleman between you and your doctor
dmcd365
No insurance makes Dr.s money. If your car insurance included a new car every three years with a $50 copay, would car dealers moan about it?
Goveggie222
As someone who worked in healthcare.. no. People without insurance tend to never pay what they owe, they lose money on them.
Scientificevidence
As a Dutch guy: not so much. They can advocate for cheaper contracts with hospitals, get some competition, you just need some rules.
myUsernameWasAlreadyTakenAndIHaveAcceptedMyFate
the insurance industry is so big in the US that the companies will buy off any attempt at change
Scientificevidence
I think the chance to make their product mandatory and becoming too big to ever fail (bailouts incoming!) is an option they'll gladly take.
LizardEnterprises
This is the complete opposite of true. You CANNOT negotiate effectively for prices on healthcare on your own behalf because you NEED it.
hkim1326
How do we get rid of them
Thothshai
The one fucking you is the doctor / hospital. Trust me I have relatives on both sides of the equation.
rabidCOVIDphysician
There's a reason insurance companies are the richest companies in the U.S. There's a reason one of them falling can cause an economic crash
Thothshai
Insurance companies make a flat percentage across the board, look it up.
rabidCOVIDphysician
What?? Im put myself $300k in debt, then working for 4 years barely making minimum wage, then making around $100k / yr. *I* am fucking YOU?
ManicMDMechanic
Go with Direct Primary Care then. Look it up. No insurance. Just pay your doc directly. No middleman.
drfsupercenter
I hate primary care because you can't pick your own specialists - you have to go to the ones they refer you to.
Cheesecakecrush
You have to under insurance anyway?
drfsupercenter
No... not really, as long as the doctor you want to see is under your insurance you can. Never been an issue for me.
drfsupercenter
And most doctors I've gone to take basically every insurance. It's just if you have a PCP that essentially requires you to see someone else
ManicMDMechanic
That's because of insurance. Get away from that and it all changes. Trust me. It's what I do.
Tunisia
Except you can't control whether you get cancer and they can charge $50k per session for chemo.
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Tunisia
You don't understand what insurance is, how it works, or what medical care costs in the US. Come back when you do.
ManicMDMechanic
That's why you have more affordable catastrophic insurance. Or you can move. Whatever.
Tunisia
Everything's expensive, though. Got a few shots; $1200. Rehab+surgery for minor injury: $150,000.
teknosapien
That's the point isn't it. Currently healthcare/insurance is a for profit business. It shouldn't be.
Pwnius
#capitalism ?
teknosapien
There are something's capitalism should have no association with. This is one of them
megagreg
Most insurance should be nationalized. Insurance is just socialism by subscription, but for profit.
newsguycraigevans
sorosfieldops
CAPITALISM
ICarpeYourDiems
So which businesses should be for profit?
fred28056
Ones without inelastic demand
yurameki
Plenty of businesses exist not for profit. They're either called... Not for profit or non profit.
imooforyou
Ones that don't decide which human life is worth treating?
ICarpeYourDiems
So you don't think the most capable humans should be in the "determining which human life is worth treating" game?
imooforyou
You think Paul Ryan and Donald Trump are our "most capable". Holy shit that explains your creepy statements.
ICarpeYourDiems
You are lost. Try reading things.
VonKarnstein
ICarpeYourDiems
Nice ad hominem.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
I assume most doctors don't grind through nearly a decade of education in order to make money. Plus, your argument ignores the fact 1/?
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
That healthcare outcomes are the same in other western nations using single payer. 2/2
teknosapien
I didn't say non profit I said not for profit. There are plenty of industries that can be just not the ones that put life after profit
ICarpeYourDiems
You said not for profit, I asked about for profit. Simple negation. Shouldn't the most talented humans see healthcare as a viable career?
eroso
I'm from a socialist democracy with an UHC. Healthcare is a viable career here without it being pro profit.
ICarpeYourDiems
I suspect socializing healthcare would work in US if done at state level which would be closer to size & homgeny of countries such as yours
teknosapien
Of course. but do you think insurance companies should be on the stock market and care more about dividends then the life of a person
ICarpeYourDiems
Basic premise of insurance: most people pay a little more than they should so that the few who experience abnormally expensive problems 1...
rocketturttle
most health insurance companies are actually not profitable, and many already are non-profit companies
ThailandExpress
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/business/health-insurers-profit.html
rocketturttle
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21706527-obamacares-future-not-yet-secure-encumbered-exchange
teknosapien
Now they are losing. They had record profits prior to the enactment of the ACA
rocketturttle
the few left standing have done well because so many others have gone bankrupt, they can charge what they want
rocketturttle
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/07/25/obamacares-co-op-disaster-an-unfunny-comedy-of-errors/#6f2903885d5b
rocketturttle
Also, I said the majority of companies, not the majority of the market. A small number of profitable co's own most of the country
SomewhatSuicidal
My country has free healthcare but taxes are higher because of it(finland).
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
You have free healthcare INSURANCE. There's no such thing as free healthcare. Normally I wouldn't be this pedantic but in the context of 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
this specific argument it's an important distinction and a bunch of people in this thread don't seem to be getting it. 2/2
ashackatak
What are you talking about? That's only in Finland, other countries have single payer system, and nothing is "free" as the guy said..taxes
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Sanders' original post said that we should make healthcare affordable rather than making healthcare insurance affordable, implying that 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
medical bills should be so cheap so as not to need insurance. But everyone in the comments is saying "YEAH! I agree! Let's have 1
23569072358345672
Does this free health care 'insurance' allow you to get medical treatment for free?
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
No. The government just pays for your bill rather than you. Someone is still paying.
23569072358345672
So the answer is yes
DoublevBomb
Or rather, that the universal healthcare system is tax-funded, and people pay into it what they can so everyone gets coverage.
poopymcpoopersonfucktard
As someone who keeps a healthy lifestyle I just cant grasp paying for people who dont. cancer sure, kids absolutely but your obesity cause..
poopymcpoopersonfucktard
illnesses should fall on my shoulders. Your poor decisions shouldn't impact my life or finances
DoublevBomb
I wouldn't want to pay for them either, really. That said, if I'm nearly killed by a drunk driver, I don't want to pay $600K just to live.
poopymcpoopersonfucktard
catastrophe insurance costs about $100-$150 a month limiting costs to about $5000 any american can afford this, if not budget for it.
SomewhatSuicidal
I guess
DoublevBomb
People say those systems are free all the time, and it gives the wrong impression. In the US, the form political platforms on wrong those.
5tRaNgEdAy5
Ironically the health insurance is part of what makes it so expensive lol
thenoblitt
Which is why single payer is the way to go doctors and hospitals want it. Insurance companies don't and they are the ones paying lobbyists
n8wishim
Thats just because you (the 'murica public) allows it to be like this. There *are* other ways - sincerely Europe.
Zerogates
How can health insurance make it expensive if the only way to pay high insurance costs is if the healthcare itself is high?
8hourgamer
just like trying to get a car painted at a shop that only does insurance repair jobs.
Sm9yCg
Are you an idiot? You sure sound like one with that idiotic statement.
Bystandr
Wrong. Price gouging services and materials behind patents that should not exist is what makes most of it unaffordable.
ExTechOp
I've been told that historically employment healthcare was a way to add perks to the job at a time wages were controlled. Accurate?
ExTechOp
And since that time, costs have spiralled out of control since "someone else was paying".
LizardEnterprises
No, not even a little bit. Literally every first world county has health insurance. Even single payer is just a single large insurance pool.
LizardEnterprises
Most of the waste is from hospitals overcharging you, drug and medical device managers overcharging you.
LizardEnterprises
A not-insignificant amount of waste is from both our insurers being frighteningly inefficient (although they're getting better)
LizardEnterprises
Also our doctors and nurses make a fuckton more than they do in any other country, even relative to the median wage.
LizardEnterprises
Both of those last two are still dwarfed by hospitals screwing you though.
Thothshai
Yes it adds costs but not nearly as much as most think. Healthcare companies make like 4% across the board.
aquamaniam
Not ironic. Purposefully done.
equityforpunks
Mostly. Your hospitals don't need to compete with price. Private sector is ~10-100x cheaper in Europe where they need to compete w/ public.
Rkhbusa
Glass ceilings man
GoDrunkYoureHome
Charges or collections? Because there tends to be a huge difference between the two
ekzeko
Yeah but single payer has huge advantages in that domain. Especially for a market like america.
Fiadh
Pharmaceuticals. Enough said.
chardlz
Pharmaceuticals are only about 15-18% of healthcare costs and are by far the most cost efficient way to take care of people
equityforpunks
The cost of drugs or equipment doesn't play huge role in that. Europeans do fine with sameish prices.
elgringocontos
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2015/oct/us-spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations 2
elgringocontos
Cost of drugs in the US is actually a reason why it's so expensive here 1
equityforpunks
Fair enough. Your system is far more fucked up than I knew. I highly appreciate act of providing quality sources.
elgringocontos
Education is the only way to begin to remedy the problem. One solution other countries might not work singularly for the US but it's a start
elgringocontos
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/money/4462919/prescription-drug-prices-too-high/ 3
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5tRaNgEdAy5
Insurance is a part of that (from my understanding), Because insurance bargains down the price the hospitals inflate the cost of goods.
[deleted]
[deleted]
5tRaNgEdAy5
I wasn't advocating for more Health Insurance. Without insurance you can request an itemized list of goods/services and negotiate from there
SixWingsWide
On Valentine's Day, wife got an ear infection. $1500 for an ER doc to say "oh, that's infected." Waited an hour for 1 min convo. $1,500.
puddin151
this is because insurance companies refuse to pay, so the doctors raise prices then insurance just pays half then thinks they got a deal
[deleted]
[deleted]
puddin151
make insurance able to be sold across state lines, or force them to be non profit private companies so no shareholders to answer to
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5tRaNgEdAy5
Huh...I always thought they negotiated the price down...I didn't realize they refused to pay.
puddin151
they refuse to pay the billed price so they "negotiate" the price down and end up paying what the doctor would have normally charged
ManicMDMechanic
Make healthcare more affordable and insurance doesn't have to be expensive.
imooforyou
In the US, its a symbiotic relationship of greed. They both over price to yield the highest reward for their shareholders.
Thothshai
Hospitals don't have shareholders...
ManicMDMechanic
Clearly don't know how things work. Thanks for playing though.
QuestionableContent
In guessing you've never heard of Hospital Corporation of America. For profit hospitals are a thing and they're expensive.
Thothshai
Shareholder=|=Stakeholder
imooforyou
There are for profit and non profit hospitals . They are based on state laws on how they operate within those guidelines.
Penguinsandbroadswords
Listen, you didn't know that they did, so you're unaware, not a jerk. Gave you an upvote. Ignorance should be educated, not punished.
imooforyou
...yes they do. They are for profit and have investors.
Thothshai
Investors are not necessarily shareholders.
knispler
Then why ist it working in Europe? You should not put your free market stuff in the medical area, because everyone Nerds it, so they can 1/2
knispler
Charge what they want.
knispler
*needs
accordingtotheDM
Why is it ironic that a parasitic bureaucracy makes things more expensive? I thought that was the assumption.
5tRaNgEdAy5
Well, thats not entirely fair. For people with rare diseases insurance is an excellent way to afford treatments.
accordingtotheDM
Also having a functional healthcare system without insurance is a great way to remove the concept of "afford" from just being not dead.
5tRaNgEdAy5
The cost of "Orphan Drugs" can be quite steep, Insurance companies are not without sin, but they do save lives.
leodavinci1
You're confusing Pharma with insurance companies.
accordingtotheDM
Imagine one big insurance company that encompasses an entire state, and then call it "the Kansas department of health." No CEO, no sales dep
flamingflamingo
I think it's ironic because at a basic definition, insurance helps people pay their medical bills.
accordingtotheDM
the concept of receiving medical bills is the problem.
flamingflamingo
I was just explaining why it's ironic. Of course the whole thing is broken.
leodavinci1
How much lower would medical costs be if it didn't included an army ofpencil-pushing, non-medical bureaucracy?
whatsisname
It wouldn't exist. A health care system needs people to evaluate risks and costs. We don't have unlimited resources. Private or government.
AtomIndigo
Actually, money is the driving factor most things in life. Couple that with the fact that most money is of the fiat variety, and you can
leodavinci1
Meant to say, "How much lower would medical costs be if it didn't include paying for an army of pencil-pushing, non-medical bureaucracy?"
DuggFunnie
because people blame the insurance companies, whom are merely responding to market incentive. THey don't blame the government that 1/2
DuggFunnie
created those awful incentives in the first place 2/2
accordingtotheDM
the concept of "markets" should not be anywhere in public health discourse
DuggFunnie
so, doctors should be conscripted into work then? Yeah slavery really promotes quality work output
5tRaNgEdAy5
I think at a core level we want to treat Health Care as if it were beyond the "market", however terrible things happen every time a governme
Subsound
It took years to get a half assed business friendly version passed with years of rage after, this seems like an unpossible pipe dream
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[deleted]
ashackatak
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/people-who-correct-typos-may-be-jerks-study-finds-2016-3
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
No, I'm definitely a jerk.
CertifiedTintinologist
Love how every other developed country on Earth has had it for decades and in the USA it's an impossible pipe dream. LOL
Subsound
I know, it's pretty screwed up to me too but I guess I'm in the minority.
GrassfedChicken
Nope. It's pretty fucked up that we have money to throw at a neverending war but can't get Little Timmy's leg fixed.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Every other developed country doesn't have affordable healthcare, they have single-payer healthcare insurance. It's still expensive but 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
the government foots the bill. 2/2
CertifiedTintinologist
Yes, I thought that is what you were saying is a "pipedream". We need Single Payer in the US like, yesterday.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Oh, I'm not the guy who said the pipedream thing. I'm another guy.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
And also, yes we definitely need single-payer or some other form of universal coverage. But I do think health insurance is necessary and 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Sorry to bust in on your convo.