richincleve
97130
1697
54
While watching the news at a local watering hole, the story about North Korea threatening to bomb Guam appeared. A friend of mine said "Big deal. What's so special about Guam?"
I was then I realized that perhaps not a lot of people know what Guam means to the US.
Hence...this post.
Guam is a small island, with all of 210 square miles of land, and a population of about 162,000.
In 1950, Guam was declared an unincorporated organized territory of the United States. That's fancy talk for saying Guamanians were now US citizens, but couldn't vote.
Guam has two major industries supporting it. The first is, of course, tourism.
Most of its tourist traffic comes from Japan, but it also gets plenty of tourists from South Korea, the U.S., the Philippines, and Taiwan.
Its second major industry?
The US military. And there is lots of it in Guam.
Andersen Air Force Base
US Naval Base Guam
Apra Harbor, controlled by the US Navy.
Plus:
- US Navy Ordnance Annex
- U.S. Coast Guard Sector Guam
- Naval Computer and Telecommunications Station, U.S. Navy
- Joint Force Headquarters-Guam, Guam National Guard
Here's an interesting story on the military presence in Guam, which is referred to as America's "permanent aircraft carrier": http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-27/americas-navy-airforce-bases-in-guam-ramp-up-construction/7360776
So, considering Guam (210 sq. miles) has less land than the city of Chicago (234 sq. miles), it is a critical island to the military stability of the area.
And any threat to it is in essence a threat to every peace-loving country in the Pacific.
Tomadzo
So if NK fires over Japan and SK, a whole lot of shits going down. Ok Kim.
BigAZNMan
Guams airbase is where a lot of heavy bombers are which is probably why it's targeted
YuujiKazami
Hafa Adai any fellow Chamorros on imgur. Chargualaf here.
imsmallfry
Watching RTE news in Ireland just now and was reported in full, thanks for the post though
DeVyse3202
I love posts about my home!
BarbaraGayle
Me too!
themuttonisniceandlean
It's where my dad acquired his love of Spam. Or Hawaii.
BarbaraGayle
We're known for our love of Spam (aka Chamorro steak) but Guam offers many other delicacies worth trying. Like kelaguen!
whitepine854
Kill the North Korean leader with the bad haircut!
Whiskey461
Stationed there for 3 years, my favorite place the AF has put me so far.
Nite7827
Hey the Pacific Islands Club! My friend used to work there!
leftie181
Quam is one of the best located submarine base of our 7 we have. Submarines are what carry most of our nukes.
Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane
When I deployed from 13-14 our QRS was Guam National Guard. Them boys would sing and have a good ole time every night. Fun to watch.
Skipmunk
I have a brother stationed at the Air Force Base there. Thanks for spreading awareness!
authornotavailable
One of my friends just came back from visiting their dad on in the army base in Guam
FreeRangeHuman
The USS San Jose, AFS-7. Was aboard that POS in summer of 1988. Mom sent mail to the ASS-7. Was classic. Made inactive in 2009.
raynesdaze
My brother married a prostitute in Guam. Then brought her to the states where she left him. Good times, Guam.
BobCaygeon
Did he meet her in Guam or was it a destination wedding?
raynesdaze
They met in Japan, married in Guam, came to the states. She was pretty cool and brought me a bunch of Japanese candy.
anubisfike
"Peace-loving". American military. Haha. Okay buddy. Not disputing the fact that no one deserves to be bombed but get real for a second.
tacomadness
I was looking for your comment!
Mewmus
They are called Chamorro, not Guamanian
indiehedgehog
My grandma is from Guam. I've heard both plenty of times
richincleve
Although Chamorro is one of their official languages and about 37% of the inhabitants are Chamorro, the official demonym is Guamanian.
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Abfallkonto
I thought the indigenous are Chamorro, but if you live there and aren't Chamorro, you're Guamanian. Or as my wife says, Guammy Bears
LuciferRattlehead
This is the same thing going on in Puerto Rico, the average Joe does the understand that it is a strategic position
Transginger
Looks like you stroked out during that last sentence.
LuciferRattlehead
*does not understand... i only messed up one word
Shaftmaster
Chamorro is the word. Not Guamanian. I called people from Guam that a while back and it offended my friend. He explained it to me.
richincleve
I found this on that term. I can see why people from there may not appreciate the name. http://www.guampedia.com/adoption-of-guamanian/
iusedtodream
It really doesn't matter how "important" a place is to not want the people there bombed.
IWouldLikeToGetOffThisRideNowPlease
True but the likelihood of other places with people I don't want bombed being bombed is smaller if it's not also strategically important.
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imnotthatblonde
you are putting a lot of faith in a system thats about a 50/50 chance of catching the warhead at very best case
IIPhoenixII
That's the problem we're not able to do that. NK would cause millions of civilian casualties before we could take them out 1/2
IIPhoenixII
They'd be able to hit SK's capital (densely populated) with artillery before we could take it out. We'd win but at a huge civilian cost 2/2
thesmelge
And just how confident are you it'll work? Confident enough to risk hundreds of thousands of peoples lives over a bit of pride?
RandomActOfConfusion
https://youtu.be/LC97wdQOmfI I'm like 60% confident
The1WhoMemes
That's 10% more than my confidence!
CaptainShutTheFuckUp
How is killing hundreds of thousands of innocent NK civilians a proportionate response? Most of them have ZERO say in their missile program.
somepromethean
When nukes are involved the concept of a "proportionate response" goes out the window.
Drarra
Only if the attack has actually been successful (and not shot down by anti-missle).
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lifeisapicnic
Most Americans can't even point out Kentucky on a map, so why are people surprised they don't know what Guam is?
zenoshogun
Isn't it something you chew on?
richincleve
I'm no longer surprised by things like that. But it does sadden me. 'I don't know where Guam is but I know what Kim K. wore last night!"
lifeisapicnic
Or like my Ohio Dad, who can tell you what every gas station in a 10 mile radius charges for a gallon, but doesn't know where Colorado is.
jsexton
I still fuck up Colorado and Wyoming. The other 48 are easy as pie, but the featureless rectangles can fuck right off.
GamestopDorito
Its population is also prone to developing ALS and something known as "Parkinsonism-Dementia Complex," which is not amenable to PD treatment
BarbaraGayle
Yes - among others, Oliver Sacks studied why our indigenous population is prone to developing these neurological disorders.
cranialpleasure
Large numbers of Guam citizens sign up to join the US military as well.
some1username
My friends and some of my family live in Guam, I've been praying that kju is just blowing smoke.
calway
Yup, I had a Sergeant from Guam. Cool dude.
petresun
Yeah, we called it the Philippino Mafia. Lots of them and they made rank quick.
Jlh19
Was about to ask if that meant citizens of Guam could join the military.
vonKaiser
John Oliver did a piece on it which was rather interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CesHr99ezWE
Jamesbaxster
True! Huge number of Vietnam vets here
reluctantlycrouchedatthestartinglineenginespumpingandthumpingin
American GIs or Guamanians?
Asteroidrules
Both, and plenty of South Vietnamese refugees too.
reluctantlycrouchedatthestartinglineenginespumpingandthumpingin
Wow, cool. There is a town here in Hawaii that has the highest per capita percentage of Vietnam Vets in any US State.
Asteroidrules
Guam was the staging ground for US evacuations of South Vietnamese refugees, as well as the airbase air support in Vietnam launched from.
SonnyBurnette
One picture is nothing but BUFFS and 135's, yes please Korea fucking try something, Anderson could probably handle it by themselves
GregTheLemons
Don't forget the two F-22s in the very back of that picture.
SonnyBurnette
Lol didn't even see them !
NefariousBanana
Damn hell of a keen eye
icookfoodandfightfire
its not the US were worried so much about, its S. Korea. If N. Korea were to attack, millions of people would die in the first hours
reluctantlycrouchedatthestartinglineenginespumpingandthumpingin
Ummm, sorry not sorry. South Korea has had 50+ years to prepare for this shit. Why they did not move Seoul south is beyond comprehension.
questionableanswers
Sudogwon would likely be blasted to smithereens within days or turned into a modern Stalingrad filled with 25 million people.
MichaelAut
Aren't Guam citizens just regular US citizens, like Puerto Ricans and all the others?
HsuDoNihm
Yep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam#Government_and_politics
DefinetlyNotObsessed
Yes they just have to move to an actual state to vote
MichaelAut
One of the downsides of the electoral college, i guess.
DefinetlyNotObsessed
Yea I feel like they should atleast get a minimum of 2 even if that is an under rep it's a decent start.
ThunderousGalaxy
There's really no upsides to it
ZuIthar
Well I mean California and Texas don't decide the president, so we have that at least.
LeadByBadExample
Nope. They can't vote and Guam isn't a state.
Asteroidrules
They technically can vote if they move to a state, unlike true foreigners who need citizenship first.
HsuDoNihm
Not quite. US citizenship is the same everywhere. However, Guam is not a state, so it doesn't have representation in congress or the senate.
Azmoten
Yep. And since we use an electoral college, and they have zero electorates (is that a word?) even if they voted, it would be meaningless.
HsuDoNihm
I think it's "zero electors" but I dunno. Their vote isn't ENTIRELY meaningless, as they can influence the primaries... theoretically.
orangearcadi
Not quite. They have a nonvoting delegate to the House of Representatives, and people who live on Guam can't vote for president
LeadByBadExample
It does have representation in congress, but no senators and its single congressman cannot vote.
HsuDoNihm
Non-voting representation is not representation.
MichaelAut
Well, giving a small territory/possible state like Guam 2 Senators would make them ridiculously overrepresented.
Chubbycheesedoge
I spent many years there in the Navy. It is a beautiful place.
wittie888
Is it true there are a lot of hookers?
Chubbycheesedoge
"A lot" is quite the understatement.
Fistedflan
Except the locals their hate the military and crimes any issue. Locals trash the island. It's like the TJ of the pacific.
LearnSomething
Clearly you have not been to either Guam or TJ.
Fistedflan
Sure bud.
Chubbycheesedoge
I didn't want to get into any of that. Think happy thoughts!
1Plebian
"Who cares about guam." .... what an idiot?
richincleve
Unfortunately a lot of people just don't know about what Guam means to the US.
TurboDave
Not only that, but what a NK-US confrontation will escalate to. A hundred years ago, it was just one Archduke's life.
1Plebian
even without the strategic implications. NK attacking anything but an empty desert is catalystic
brassmule
When I think of Guam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q
ObliqueRay
Guam will be fine. I just sent them my thoughts and prayers and twitter likes.
BigAZNMan
Did you empty your account? C'mon, man. You can't just throw your twitter likes around all willy nilly. Yah gotta save!
paulpounder
InexplicablyAvailableUsername
doesn't Guam have a pretty capable anti-missile system tho? I have no idea, i'm just guessing that would be a thing they'd have.
Dergen89
Wouldn't you like to know... Kim Jung un!!
applesforjuice
Hope so, I'm headed there Saturday to work on base. I'll update you if I end up getting blown up
syntaxxor
Yes person who is clearly not a North Korean spy
TurboDave
The scary thing about all this isn't North Korea's threat to the US, but the likelihood that Russia will get involved.
EwGrooss
Not so much Russia as china.
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PeteButtigieg
If any country attacks the United States our lives are going to change. You ought to be scared.
FancyFrance
What happened with aerial mounted lasers? I read up on them a decade ago and thought they were beta testing then? Heat force a detonation.
rrlyrae
lasers are bunk for missile defense.
FancyFrance
Not if you warp the outer shell on trajectory. Upon reentry, yea. Doneso.
imnotthatblonde
still in development, less than practical really
cbale2000
They were deemed highly impractical due to required proximity. The have a new laser system in trials on a ship off the Iranian coast.
imnotthatblonde
Yeh it works at close range when its not broken in one of about 30 ways or doesent cook the optics when it fires by exploding a spot of dust
cbale2000
These ground/sea based systems Imo are the real solution to North Korea, especially for defense from incoming artillery.
FancyFrance
We have bases close enough to drop anything for Asia. The aerial lasers were proven against TBMs, I assume in a decade, were capable.
OuroborosX
Do you realize the cost of every anti-missile rocket? It's around $1M. NK has 100,000 missiles aimed at SK, Japan, Guam, etc. $Trillions.
LogicalByDesign
Yeah but those are spitballs not nukes
OuroborosX
So you just let 100,000 missiles rain down on SK? So Trump can keep talking tough?
LogicalByDesign
The technology that counters an icbm is not the same as what counters short range rockets (they dont have 100k smart missiles)
OuroborosX
It's the same technology as the Iron Dome in Israel, and those rockets are $1M each.
koobybooby
Theres THAAD, but a simple google search reveals it really cant be relied on. While its praised as a nuclear shield (p1)
koobybooby
It serves more as a last resort hope for survival (2)
illogicalphallusies
I feel like once a Nuclear warhead is launched, everything is a "Last resort hope for survival"
LoudBirb
It can't be relied on to counter large numbers of missiles. So, a barrage from Russia would overwhelm it. NK's "barrage" of 1... NP.
ImgurIsOutOfUsernames
Yea, THAAD is designed to counter short and med range missiles, not ICBMs.
imnotthatblonde
There is a system, its more designed for short range not high speed ICBM even on short range stuff its not a guarenteed shoot down
imnotthatblonde
Good yes, 100% effective... far far from
Tarelgeth
No such thing. Best current missile defense system is about 20% vs ICBS curves.
Tarelgeth
*ICBM
justacap
SMH
InexplicablyAvailableUsername
why are you shaking your head?
justacap
Because they work *real* well.
justacap
From the article below: "hit-to-kill ballistic missile defense still has a ways to go to prove itself as truly reliable"
HypersonicHero
I would guess that they have Aegis SM-3 there and maybe THAAD
justacap
They do have THAAD in Guam: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-conducts-test-thaad-defense-system-ballistic-missile-n787851
justacap
The one that failed in live testing? thedrive /the-war-zone/11794/navys-new-sm-3-block-iia-ballistic-missile-interceptor-fails-in-live-test
HypersonicHero
The idea with the onion defense is any one or two of them can fail. A missile has to get thru SM3, THAAD, and PAC-3 to strike
justacap
Or, it can just be a rotten onion.
Mack1986
Read into it. Kinda funny. A sailor hit the wrong button causing it to self destruct (it flagged the target as friendly. Safetys kicked in)
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
IAMGR0OT
.
HaniiPuppy
I thought it was going to be CGP Grey's video on them.
Sirtopumhat
Thanks for the video link.
mkumar118
OMFGWhatHaveYouDone
raapster
C U R R E N T Y E A R
IMakeSharpPointyThings
THAT was an awesome video.
Asteroidrules
Samoa gets so screwed over it hurts.
saltandsunshine
m3l4r0
.
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
DarthH8r
Well. Color me irritated.
randomitguy
Future self - Watch this video
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
don't forget to watch this video
Grizzlydave
.
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
keventure
Wow I had no idea.
griefninja
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OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
darkknight447
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ForbinDallas
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PapaCoder
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OCDhazard
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OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
TheObviouiator55
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familiarlunch
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Veloqx
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OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
StormFront34
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OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
Friendly reminder: don't forget to watch
questionableanswers
Unincorporated territories are essentially imperial colonies. Because freedom and democracy.
BarbaraGayle
True. Who would have thought we'd still have colonies in this day and age?
SnarkyScience
Except that several territories, like PR, keep voting AGAINST becoming states. They get US benefits and no taxes.
WolfgangPacoSr
Puerto Ricans on the island pay taxes.
questionableanswers
You are aware that PR voted for statehood, right?
malikcarr
They've voted against statehood every time it came up right up until they ran out of money. Seriously PR is fucking bankrupt and looking-
malikcarr
for a bailout from the US gov't by formally becoming part of the US gov't.
DefinetlyNotObsessed
Not quite they are usually 50/50 on joining
questionableanswers
"You are aware that PR voted for statehood, right?"
WolfgangPacoSr
Only 23 percent of the pop. Took part in the referendum.
questionableanswers
And? Everyone had the opportunity to take part in it, everyone knew about the importance
RunningWaterMonster
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stormegedendarklordofall
Will watch later. In the mean time .
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
don't forget to watch
stormegedendarklordofall
Thanks :)
flamingosniper
Same
OMFGWhatHaveWeDONE
don't forget to watch
flamingosniper
Thanks for the reminder! Just watched it. That was informative and frustrating to listen to.