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"What a fantastic initiative!" Spain is the first country in Europe to provide paid menstrual leave. The Spanish parliament approved a law last Thursday that provides paid medical leave to women experiencing extremely painful periods.
According to Spain's left-wing government, the measure is meant to end a taboo on the subject and was passed by 185 votes to 154 against it. Spain does not, however, stand alone in offering paid leave; other nations that do so include Zambia, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Japan. https://in.mashable.com/culture/47607/internet-cheers-as-spain-becomes-the-first-country-in-europe-to-grant-period-leave?amp=1
kellerstern
She did not leave this month. She must be pregnant....
ThreeDimesDown
Ole!
youcannotwin
Gorzine
Japan does it but nobody uses it. They also have lots of publix holiday (twice as much as France) but everybody works those days
MRDOne
I think this is a bloody good decision.
thesmartparty
This is to balance a gap that was already there, women are unlikely to ask for sick leave for this when they really need it as they are 1/2
thesmartparty
Discriminated even more (much like low wage workers not taking time off during COVID) this just give them a framework to feel more secure2/3
thesmartparty
They will still be subject to rules around sick leave.
RoseDandy
American's are really showing our asses finding bs reasons why this is bad. Spain has worker protection laws and unions. I'm sure Spanish
RoseDandy
women are smart enough to know if this will back fire on them or not. Let's stop pretending we know their lives better then they do.
BastardMan1977
Here come the redhats to scream "sOcIaLiSm"
pareidoliaperson
Words are bad mkay?/s
BORGALOOGIE
Those are countries with socialist policies! OK, so then… why don’t we try out similar policies here in the USA? bEcAuSe that’s Socialism!
rather0od
They wouldn't have menstrual pain if they did their job and stayed pregnant. /s
drgonzo67
It is actually Socialism, and we're proud of it! Have fun with your dog-eat-dog Capitalism where you have to go bankrupt to pay for medicine
prfesser
I paid for my medicine and am not bankrupt! Now excuse me while I have a can of nutritious dog food for breakfast.
thomerow
A whole can! Look at Mr. Moneypants over here...
michiyl
Or even using an ambulance!
tgeliot
I'm concerned that people will use this as justification for not giving women responsibility.
SalutetheBoner
Zzonk
This is good and fair.
redkintoba
Putting the "S" back on "Pain"
MrsBlancheDevereaux
Good for them.&they have paid maternity leave.Most of US still don’t have paid maternity leave.Just had my baby,I’m just getting unpaid FMLA
Hibs06
My boss already doesn’t hire women and this would just add to his argument. I am 100% not on his side.
escalinci
I believe this, and maternity/parental leave, should all be paid from the state, not the employer.
chloramphenicolderivative
This pretty much agrees that women are less desirable employees. And severe cases should already have been covered by sick leave.
Lalamehlala
Not sure about the first sentence, but the last one is true. If I an sick I am sick- does not matter why.
chloramphenicolderivative
If you could pick between two employees. Identical skill sets. One works 22 weeks a month and one works 20 days a month. Who do you pick?
Qualtagh
I hope you get the opportunity to stop helping him. I wish there was an easy way to screen employers for basic ethics :(
[deleted]
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michiyl
EU anti-discriminatory law will have a say in this. Companies have to proof not hiring a woman was based on other things than gender.
noxseth
It won't be. It will be based on who can work more days and provide me with more hours-per-pay of work. Is that not a metric?
thebigsofo
that is already been cone around with by just stating '' not fit for the position or we we found more fitting person for it''
thebigsofo
and thats if you ever get a answer for it because by law the companies dont need to tell why they didnt chose person A for the job.
Zalophus
Proof would have to be the other way. So long as companies aren't outright saying it's cause they are a woman you can't assert that's why.
MegaIlluminati
Watching what some of my friends go through during their time f the month, this is amazing.
waznewz
Good.
LetMeGoogleThatShtForYou
As good as this sounds..., I see companies less inclined to hire women more...
cptwott
They could balance that by giving men equal leave for virtual periods hint hint
Schlumpfi
Every company with more than...i think 5 employees has the option of a "Comité de empresa" - so the workers themself check if the hirering
Schlumpfi
process is/was fair or not. Especially regarding the number of womans in the company, and handicapped people.
thebigsofo
this will push to that companies wont hire womans for higher positions who are needet full 4 weeks a month and not 3/4 weeks
mwade360
All of the women who I know who have debilitating cramps only get them for a day or two and not every month.
RubberCoatedWeightPlate
But the Spanish state will cover a big part of the cost through social security, right?
noxseth
It's not the salary, it's the extra seat - extra HR, extra software licenses, etc. Not a good move towards equality and gender pay gaps..
thebigsofo
sadly you are right, because why hire a person who can only work 3/4 of a month while other can 4/4 of a month.
noxseth
And the seat is empty, but you pay for everything, insurance, medical, dental, software, home laptop, phone, transportation, etc. Would you?
BlueSheep
Guys that's for "Extremely painful periods" not like every months periods. That's when something went wrong.
OmnipotentBeing
Some women do need this time off. I'm sure that companies that tend not to hire women could be punished as well.
apoliticalpanda
I also see women saying they are on their period when they aren't. I know I would
userfriendly19777
Periods come with foreseeable regularity you know.
apoliticalpanda
I'll say my period lasts 8 days when it lasted 2 days. What are they gonna? Check?
TetraNordeh
Not always, and those with irregular periods often have the worst symptoms.
TrueNorthernLights
Yes/no. As a woman with irregular periods, they're not always back to back, and if it WAS that severe, a doctor's note just to verify >
TrueNorthernLights
TetraNordeh
My cycle can vary between 14-90 days, always 7 days of heavy bleeding. I can luckily take sick days whenever I need them, but after my PTO
igotacatthenthecatgotme
I don't like specific medical issues put into the leave name. Maternity, menstrual, others should be under "medical leave", and left alone
prettydumb
lol i dont got a problem with it ive seen it enough where im like shit girl but you know whats coming lol
LizLemonDifficult
When I lived in Japan no one used period leave because the reason would be written on the staff attendance board, everyone could see.
AusSpyder
Is this gonna be like PE where some women have cramps EVERY WEEK and admin knee jerk reacts and pulls the whole thing cause it was abused?
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Nope. A doctor needs to attest that you're in such an awful state you're actually unable to work for X days. Same as for all paid sick leave
AusSpyder
Ah, well that's good then. Tired of shitheads ruining a good thing for everyone else.
capnjip
Logistical question: does the govt need to track cycles? Re: Florida...
anoldiebutagoodie
Just looked it up. It's a 30 minute paid break on the days they are menstruating . Nit really paid leave
HenryLongfellowIII
Sounds like something any decent manager would allow anyway, so this just makes it mandatory.
TacticalMoosez
So it’s like a…. Pay period.
ied3vil
In Romania we have this since forever… 24 months with incentive to come back to Work after 21
HenryLongfellowIII
Must be some pretty extreme periods ..
Nusete
The way this law has been made it's awful. It gives the emoloyers another reason to discriminate. It's a good idea terribly executed
InnocentValley
The reason has always been there, but please do elaborate, what parts or how is it badly executed? Not saying you're wrong, just curious.
InnocentValley
Cos if not for a specified menstrual leave, people would be taking regular sick days if needed. Spain is bad, but not as bad as US, surely.
Nusete
The excuse eployers give now is that they can rely on women bc they can all take 3 sick days each month without notice
InnocentValley
But that would happen regardless of a menstrual leave. If a period is so severely painful they can't work... I mean that fact doesn't change
Nusete
That's the point of the law. Until now if the period was painful it wasn't an excuse to have a paid leave. You could probably skip w/o pay
Gelantious
Anti-discrimination laws, can't fire a person because of their gender.
Jgold101
No but they sure will find another way and they have expensive lawyers on retainer.
teamshitshow
Cool. Except that part where the state is fully aware of women’s fertility cycles.
damogen
No. In EU the reason for sick leave is not registered. That is between you and your doctor.
Hadespuppy
I'd imagine this is only really applicable for those who have regularly debilitating periods, in which case the employer would already know.
sparkletempt
Is it? Or do women just get more non specific sick days as I understand is the case?
damogen
They don't have limited sick days. The change just means that extreme menstrual pain is now a valid reason for taking a sick day.
sparkletempt
In EU you usually get limited free pass sick days for no reason and paid sick leave approved by doctor, so I wonder which is it that is all
damogen
ah ok, my bad. I would guess it has to be approved by a doctor. That is normally the case for long term issues.
anyway188136
It's one thing to offer it and another to take it. Your company/boss needs to support it as well.
UmAcshually
How come? I'm a Finn so I'm not super familiar with Spain's laws, but generally speaking firing employees without a good reason isn't easy >
UmAcshually
here in Europe. If I'm, by law, entitled to a benefit then I will take that benefit and there is nothing my employer can do about it. For >
UmAcshually
the record, here in Finland we don't have anything explicitly named "menstrual leave" but you can get sick leave for that. In most white >
UmAcshually
collar jobs you can take a couple of days of sick leave without a doctor's note and in most blue collar jobs you'd need a dr's statement to>
UmAcshually
get sick leave. In either case, you don't need to justify it to the employer in any way.
damogen
This is not something the companies offer. It is government mandated. And in EU companies are not allowed to ask why you take sick leave.
InnocentValley
I mean.. they're allowed to ask but they're not entitled to know the answer.
potshot
Depends on the country, in some places they aren't even allowed to ask.
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
You can even lie to them legally.
CatsIsTheAnswer
Umh, I don't know about EU but in Italy if you take a sick leave you can be subject to random medical checks to assure you actually are sick
Kalthramis
Didn't Italy also just elect an openly fascist and alt-right party
CatsIsTheAnswer
Depends on what you mean by "openly" but yeah, fascist. But this was set up in the 70s and I don't really see the connection
damogen
I would think that these checks are made by medical professionals and they only tell the company if you were sick or not.
CatsIsTheAnswer
Sure, doctors employed by the state.i'm not really sure how broad their scope or mandate is.
CatsIsTheAnswer
On the other hand we have at least 26 days of paid leave per year, unrelated to sick days.
missteeka
Same for France. It’s usually done for long sick leaves or repeated ones. But even if they occur, the doctor is not allowed to share any…
missteeka
medical information about you to your employer.
MenstrualWaterBalloons
Wow... They don't even do that in the US as far as I know. Firing for BS reasons, sure; but they don't actually check to see if you're sick.
michiyl
Depends on the country: In Germany most companies give you 3 days of sick leave if it's a minor thing, and happening not too often (like ...
michiyl
... every few weeks). However, once you take more than this you are required to go to a doctor and get a note that you are ill for longer.
CatsIsTheAnswer
Difference with the US is, I believe, the legal minimum of 4 weeks of unconditional paid leave, plus others (depending on the industry)...
CatsIsTheAnswer
It makes sense to be strict if you already have "enough" time off.
Vrh101
Being able to call in sick whenever your not feeling well should be a basic right. This law is not really helping..idea good, execution bad.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Everyone else gets paid sick leave too. They're only including extremely painful menstrual cramps as a valid reason. Requires a medical note
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
In many European countries you get as much paid sick leave as you need, but a doctor needs to attest that you're actually unable to work.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Bit of a drag when you can't just call in sick, but on the plus side your doc decides how long you have to stay at home. So your employer …
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
doesn't expect you to show initiative and show up to work as soon as you can crawl out of bed again. If doc says 3 weeks, you have to ...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
take the whole 3 weeks off even if you already feel great again after 2.
scholarmonkey
In most places, you can self-certify for the first 3 days. Only need a Dr's note after the 3rd continuous day.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
That's the case here in Germany too, but your employer can demand that you see a doctor if something seems fishy. If you take 3 days off ...
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
every other month, eventually they'll insist on evidence that you really are frequently sick and not just hung over.
valinnut
Why wouldn't you just take sick days? Do they have to justify it? Like tell the boss they have their period? This seems like a terrible idea
neilwatkinsfromaccounting
valinnut
To be clear: What I mean is it would be better to just include menstrual pains as a symptom that can justify normal sick leave.
valinnut
So it has to be diagnosed, can be treated (in some cases) and most importantly you do not have to tell your company.
Nuttsy
IIRC, they could already take sick days for it, but those had to go through a doc, and doing that on a semi-regular basis was a hassle.
capughe
If it was a regular thing rather than incidental like a cold, you'd possibly get low on sick leave. Often nothing comes from investigating 1
capughe
Menstrual symptoms. Sometimes hard to diagnose or treat. Often dismissed. Sometimes just how it is for a menstruating person /2
valinnut
Again they could "just" have improved the diagnostic window, medical standards to facilitate an easier way to recognize it.
kushezz
"Get low on sick leave"