yazheirx
38174
670
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As someone who has grown more liberal as I have aged. I have never understood one issue that both sides seem to fight a lot about. Voter ID requirements.
To be fair I also don’t understand why we should not have a National ID (though the new Licenses seem to be closer to that). Wouldn’t something like that keep anyone Left, Right, or RFK voter from voting more than once?
Edit: Thank you all for the helpful and educational comments. I particularly want to callout @bobismeisbob for sharing videos that I can easily share with my friends who are also trying to understand other, more liberal view points than what we grew up with:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJeuk9Qizw
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto
Maraxus
I want some Representative to go before congress and declare: "To combat illegal voting I hereby present my plan for universal voter IDs" - Republican crowd goes crazy - "IDs issues universally to all citizens of the United states as well as universal voter registration" - Republicans go silent - "I mad a realistic step by step plan here, that will take around 6 years and a budget of about 20 billion $." - Republicans faint.
PinkEater
Had to show my drivers license in GA.
Killerpixler
A big part is that it's often used as a way to deny people a vote because of discrepancies between ID and voter registrations when it's really discrimination. Non "John Smith" sounding names have more complex spelling, special characters, etc.. I have a German name and have five "aliases" on my credit report that are just spelling mistakes of my first name. Marginally annoying there, but imagine it being used to deny your right to vote...
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
My ex has a generic John Smith sounding name and they still managed to put a typo in her name on her driver's license.
oopsydsy
Moving forward it should be easier to get an ID. There are still people alive that did not get issued birth certificates, that do not have SS cards. Even the most country hospital have their birth records in a computer now. Becoming a citizen requires a SS card. If a voter ID law passes, they could put a timeline in place. Give people 5-7 years to get all their stuff together. It COULD be easy. To many people shouting socialism. I'll pay an extra $2 so a homeless guy can get an ID.
mendrak
It's not quick or easy to get them in most places in the US. Especially if you are missing a document or two, and it's not easy to find which documents you will need with you. I've been to DMV and the website will say one thing and the clerks will say another. It also has a fee attached to it.
mistermystery
Oh man, when my company got acquired and the new company had to "rehire" us all, I spent weeks and hundreds of dollars trying to get a new copy of my birth certificate and social security card, which I could not locate.
codswallower
Democrats need to pass a law that supplies voter ids to all Americans at no cost. Shut down this voter suppression tactic
Maxvla
My conservative state requires voter ID and I get it free by mail when the old one expires. I don't even have to request it.
EternalStudent07
Think the real fix is to make ID free, rather than removing the need for identity to vote. Our government has continued to fail us in the same ways it always has.
Electroncascade
The idea is that there are populations that are more likely to not have an ID, and requiring one disenfranchises them disproportionately.
JayEnfield
Another aspect of this is "Who gets to decide which forms of ID are acceptable?"
What if a disability benefits card works and a concealed carry permit doesn't?
What if a concealed carry permit works and a disability benefits card doesn't?
Columbus43219
This sentence is a master class in boiling down a complex topic into a simple, yet open ended introduction. Seriously, I'm envious of that skill.
Electroncascade
Thank you! A background in teaching comes in handy now and then for such things (also, character limits require it).
Chakra5
While doing damned near nothing of value in return. Illegal voting it so rare as to be inconsequential, and certainly not worth all the hassle such a law would cause.
RaftingRyan
Combine this with obvious political biases in which IDs are accepted. For example, gun permits may be accepted but state-run university IDs are not.
BarnegatLight
Women are more likely to have had name changes, and need more paperwork proving their ID.
unappalled
Are you suggesting that none of this demographic would drive or ever need a passport?
Electroncascade
I'm not suggesting anything, OP asked why people opposed ID requirements, and that's the most common one I've heard.
RocMage
No, they are suggesting they are MORE LIKELY to not have them. MILLIONS of people in the US do not drive (estimated 22-27Million adults) or own a passport (52% of Americans do not own a passport).
SomeDetroitGuy
In the US, most people don't have or ever need passports.
thedarklord187
Give everyone a free ID that you get when you are born it can replace the social security system since those all got leaked last year problem solved
BeReasonableOrAtLeastBeFunny
Free ID, sure. Do NOT TOUCH the social security system.
capnadorable
It’s another unnecessary barrier, you have to register to vote and they will check the information on your ballot against the registration and if something doesn’t line up, your ballot is rejected. If they find anyone voted twice, it’s rejected. There are already systems in place to prevent fraud, and some people don’t have IDs but that doesn’t mean they aren’t citizens and can’t vote. You can’t just walk in, fill out a random name and your vote is counted. They check the registration.
Casually
Having worked the polls before and after my state instituted voter ID laws I will say I don't see any practical effect they have at stopping voter fraud.
capnadorable
Your info is checked against the registration database
Casually
I'll let people smarter than me answer this.
https://www.lwv.org/blog/whats-so-bad-about-voter-id-laws
TalkingSnake
yazheirx
Very helpful article. Thank you.
Manse84
Texas is mentioned in that (very good) article, but I didn't see anything about how Texas made the disenfranchisement worse by closing rural DMVs and making it even harder to get a DL or voting ID: https://www.texastribune.org/2018/08/29/drivers-license-closure-DPS-sunset/
yazheirx
If my searches are correct Texas grew from just over 20.8 million people in 2000 to 29.1 million and they need fewer DMV offices?
tr26
Texan here - our state attorney general claimed it was for improved security and efficiency but was unable to give any basis for those claims.
cptcr
2020 election they removed several, not all, ballot box drop off locations from Harris county which is Houston, the largest city in the state, because there were too many. They argued each county only needed one to be treated equally. Harris county is largely Democrat. They just want to make it hard so they can win.
VashTehStampede
According to Republicans, yes.
That's one way they make this issue persist. They simplify the argument beyond recognition (IDs aren't a problem to get, they claim) and then they set up as many obstacles (or remove support systems) to make it as hard as they can.
Manse84
And post offices got cut in that time frame, if I recall. But I'd have to find sources for that one
tr26
Correct. Largely sorting centers. Mail between Austin and Memphis can take a week for priority
dsmegst
Because the topic is falsely used to drive up anger against the practically non-existant voter fraud, painting immigrants as law breaking criminals. It's an easy way to disguise bigotry with a reasonable sounding red herring.
BrightestNight
I've been to the same poll (except for when I've voted early) for about 17 years now. One of the ladies that works there has known me since I was maybe 4 or 5, and yet asks for my ID every time.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Aside from the costs, up to 7% of US citizens – 13 million Americans – don't have any documents that prove their birth and citizenship. Home birth without birth certificate, or all documentation got lost in a fire or while moving etc. Until this changes, "voter ID laws" remains code for suppressing the vote of disenfranchised citizen demographics (which benefits the right, hence the conservative focus on voter ID).
CarpeMofo
I had this problem, I lost my wallet and shortly after my Mom died and I moved. My Mom still had my birth certificate and social security card when she died as I had never needed them in my adult life. Could not find either. Getting ID back was a nightmare. The information on the website for the BMV of the stuff you needed said you needed a birth certificate and social security card. 1/2
CarpeMofo
The birth certificate people said you needed an ID and the Social Security office said I needed one or the other. They didn't give any kind of alternatives. I mentioned it in therapy and my therapist reached out to a social worker who said they could write me a letter saying I was who I said I was and that would get me a social security card then I could go to the health department with my aunt to verify me and I could get a birth certificate. None of this was on their websites. It was terrible.
StarkeRealm
Also, Voter ID laws that require the ID to match to the birth certificate are almost tailor-made to suppress the votes of married women, who have their married surname on their driver's license, but (for very obvious reasons) not on their birth certificate.
FudgeWeasel
It depends on the form of ID required. Many Voter ID movements are designed specifically to supress certain demographics of voters. An ID scheme which requires only a universally available, free and accessible ID is fine - but that is never what is proposed or put in to place. Voter ID schemes are *always* about trying to stop certain people from voting.
unappalled
Everyone that would receive benefits should have an ID, right?
RocMage
Nope. I know this is a difficult concept, but there are MANY citizens in the US who don't have an ID. They are mostly poor and minorities. There are many people who were born at home and never got a birth certificate, many who don't drive or fly, so they have no real reason to need a government issued photo ID.
SomeDetroitGuy
No. Why should they? That's such a bizarre requirement. "Sorry, Mr homeless man, we can't feed you because you don't have an ID. Enjoy death!"
RawSugarPackage
@op some states issue a voter card (similar to birth certificate or ssn, has photo, has govt seal). The card is only good for that voting cycle, but affirms you are registered to vote, where ur polling place is and other required info. That card will you to vote without a photo ID in my state. But only at your assigned polling place.
mistermystery
And only if you have a registered mailing address. Those cards are free but they still don't apply to every citizen.
FallingStar7669
I don't understand why a social security card doesn't count for anything anymore...
fofunn
How do you vote without an id?
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
You go to the polling place, they ask for your name, you give them your name, they find your name in the list, and cross it off the list.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
In Australia, we have our name marked against the electoral roll. ID not required.
GravyEducation
You can provide tiered proof of residency which may require two to three documents but in conjunction prove you live where you live. I had an expired license once and was able to use my lease as one of those documents
Evi1Gav
As others have said, the premise of needing an ID to vote isn't necessarily a bad thing, the problem is that it needs to be easily obtainable, free, and not easily circumvented. It's normal in large parts of the EU, but then it's also a legal requirement to carry ID in large parts of the EU as well - different mindset.
jimhotep
I had to present an ID to vote in RI.
Billis75
I did in NV because the poll worker challenged my signature (those shitty touch screen signature things are the bane of my existence). He said "the signature on your license looks like your voter registration signature." "No shit, I did those with a pen!!!"
Chakra5
Which is why signatures are also much more of a hassle than they are worth, and thus a form of voter suppression.
raitchison
People have a right to vote, voter ID laws infringe on that right for no verifiable reason.
BobAllen2004
This is THE most important part. There IS NO DEMONSTRABLE voter fraud occurring that would be fixed by requiring ID. George W Bush's administratgion looked for it, and found none. There are safeguards in place to prevent fraudulent voting, and they WORK. Finally, NO ONE is going to attempt to sway an election with in person voting fraud, they do that by installing slates of fraudulent electors. :)
Mickey421
*Citizens have the right to vote. Someone that enters illegally and skipped all means to become one must not be able to imo.
Chakra5
Show me proof that illegal aliens who are voting.
RocMage
That's already the law. It's illegal to vote as a non-citizen in EVERY Federal or State election (some rules differ for local elections like school boards).
raitchison
Cases of non-citizens attempting to vote are incredibly rare.
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
It just happened in Michigan and the kid (here on a student visa) who did it was *promptly* charged with at least one crime for doing so.
RocMage
So, he didn’t vote, he tried and was immediately sight by the systems we already have in place. Cool.
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
IIRC he did cast a ballot and it will be counted but they caught it very quickly and loudly announced it to remind people that it's not allowed, it will be caught, and that there are conferences.
Niagaran
More rare than Republicans committing voter fraud.
williamvanauger
It's about what Id you can use. Our conservative party in the UK implemented it even though our elections are safe and for example an old person's bus pass is valid id but a young persons isn't even though they are the same company's pass. Want to guess who their voters are? Lots of room for abuses.
daojones75
As others have said, it's not unreasonable to need an ID to vote, but that step is the last step in a long chain that starts with "make ID access easy and convenient for everyone". And until we get past step one we shouldn't even be entertaining discussion on step 2, 3, 10+.
ministerm
So what's the issue with Step 1? You're the richest country in the world. Europe has had this for ages, and it's not a problem over here.
Zalm
It costs money to make solid, decent grade cards for identification, and the logistics to provide it to literally everyone.
Republican voters would rather spend that money on wartime gear for cops, government bailouts for banks and airlines, and private military contractors.
ministerm
Who cares what R voters want? You had Dem control over all three government bodies at various points over the last deacde.
Zalm
Yeah, and the Dems are too cowardly to try and install anything decent for fear or seeming "socialist or communist" and running off "moderates" to the arms of the Nazis. So they usually never get anything done. And the few minor things they do get passes usually end up reversed the second the Nazi Party takes any control back, which is usually within 2-4 years.
Remember, Trump literally dismantled nearly everything Obama did over 8 years of presidency, and did so within 2 years of his term.
ministerm
So if the Dems aren't good enough, where are the other parties who are good enough? You've had literal centuries to have had more than two parties, and nothing has been done. Europe left you behind ages ago on this front.
Chakra5
Well, when that sort of illegal voting is such a nonexistent problem, I am going to push back on even the 'unreasonable' part.
Billis75
Not to mention the question "what is this fixing?" It's like going out and demanding we need ID's to stop ninja clowns (clown ninjas?) from invading arcades. Is that a problem that requires a national bureaucracy to fix?
Anarchduke
Yes!
Alavar
It will be once my operation is up and running. You've been warned.
awholelotofnothin
Voter registration should be automatic at age 18 or upon legal citizenship.
evilspock
It discriminates against the homeless, poor, and other folks like native americans as a state-issued ID usually requires both proof of residence (with a "real" address) and a fee. If we had a real national ID it might be a different story. But we don't.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
Here in Aus, we've never had to show ID. You go to the polling place, have your name checked off the roll, and you vote. Sure, there is nothing stopping you from casting your vote again at another polling place, but showing your ID doesn't prevent that either.
The only reason for going to another polling place is to try a different Democracy Sausage.
CarlBassett
In the UK your polling card mailed to you gives the polling station to use, usually the one nearest your home. And there are lots of them so for 99% of people they will be within a few minutes walk, and they're open until ten at night. So you can only vote at that location. (Or by mail or proxy) If you tried going to another polling station to vote your name wouldn't be on their list and you can't vote.
Maxvla
That's precisely how it works in my conservative US state. Free ID in the mail, nearest polling station is a couple miles away. In and out in 30 mins even during rush hour. If you go to the wrong place, they'll help you find your polling station. This happened while I was voting this time, a nearby polling place had a similar name (as both were named after the part of town we live in) and the person who came to our place was told how to get to the right place.
Niagaran
What happens there if someone's name is -not- on the roll?
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
You don't vote.
Voting is compulsory here, so once you turn 18 you should enroll to vote. If you have moved and haven't updated your address, you can make an absentee vote.
Niagaran
❤ I would love to have compulsory voting here 🍁
Sure, might mean more rejected ballots but we'd get a much better representation of what ALL the people want.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
Yeah, we complain about it, but it's generally accepted as "civic duty". Plus, we always vote on a Saturday, and we have Democracy Sausages. There are usually vegan options as well.
Niagaran
Here, if someone has to work that day, they must get a 3h window in which to vote. So, if the polls are open 8-8 and you work 9-5, you can take 3h off to vote but if you work noon-8, you're expected to vote in the morning. It basically works.
^this is federally, not provincially
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
I should also add that if your name is bot on the roll, you won't be fined for not voting.
briham86
cousteau
Which is part of the problem. Here in Spain you basically renew your ID card at the nearest police station. You can request an appointment online to get it done (or most likely can just walk into a police station to ask for one if you don't have access to internet). If you're getting a new one because it was stolen or about to expire you have to pay a fee of €0.00. Done right there too - you walk in with a photo and proof of ID and walk out with the new ID card.
cousteau
Of course, having an ID card is mandatory, so it'd be kind of a dick move to make you pay for it.
cousteau
(Then again, face masks were required by law in public places during covid and you had to pay the VAT for "non-essential product" for them. That WAS a dick move.)
Xendrash
just drive or use uber. If you are so poor you cant pay a 40 dollar fee and a car ride, then you have bigger issues than thinking about voting.
howesch
Honest question here! Are you an idiot?
EternallyIgnorant
OR... OR... we let them just do mail in voting! Then the poor person gets to vote, but they dont have to spend a day or days of their life to do it. Weird that you somehow missed that.
cousteau
And just like that, an entire demographic of the population loses its representation in elections, and can't do anything to get a politician that better represents their interests and helps them out of their precarious situation elected.
Xendrash
and how do you propose that those people which cant afford 40 dollars for an ID and the uber ride to use up a day voting and in fact how do they even get to their voting location? If one is so low in funds and unable to move about a few miles then voting is the least of their issues. Want to make voting better? Make it online, if we can take a picture of a check and have the money in our account in seconds we can make a voting system that validates cryptographically and has a paper backup.
cousteau
If I understood correctly, the expert opinion is that online voting is a big no. The main problem with online voting is that it's relatively easy to hack (en masse, too), and, most importantly, if someone somehow manages to change your vote electronically you will NEVER know. If someone steals money from your bank account you will probably notice (or at least many people will) because you'll see a charge for a purchase you never made. But since votes are (or should be) secret…
Xendrash
homomorphic encryption allows votes to be encrypted and tallied without decryption. Voters receive a receipt (which they can’t use to prove their vote to others, preserving secrecy), and they can later check if their receipt is in the final tally. This is a hybrid approach that provides a fallback against hacking while giving voters peace of mind that their vote is accurately recorded.
Niagaran
Why is it your stance that poor people shouldn't have a say in their own politics?
Xendrash
my stance is that they got bigger fish to fry. and if they cant afford getting the ID and the car ride to it, they cant afford to lose a day of work to vote or have the means to get there.
Niagaran
People like you are the reason everybody needs to get out and vote. So shitbags like you don't determine social policies.
AFallenDragon
Peeps can be poor & still vote. Being poor is not a reason to prevent eligible citizens from voting just because some peeps want to be a asshole & make it harder on them for no reason.
Xendrash
There is a difference between poor and destitute. If you cant afford a car ride and the fee of the IS you are destitute. And have bigger issues to think about.
AFallenDragon
And? Being destitute doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to vote, everyone should have a say in the peep who's gonna be approving the laws for the next 4 years. Making it harder is just a asshole move with absolutely no gain other then being a ass.
Xendrash
if you are that destitute can you even afford to waste a day waiting in line to vote? How are you even going to get there?
NibblonianNibbler
Here's another one... US Elections being a public holiday. Why is that bad? My tiny corrupt 3rd world country at least gets mandatory 3 hrs time off to vote. And aren't there other other countries with elections as a holiday?
Niagaran
Ironically, as returning office staff, we're -strongly- encouraged to vote by mail or do advanced voting. None of us, on election day, are willing to throw a wrench in things and toodle off for a while.
baldpope
I 100% support a national holiday for voting
mn634
I'd go so far as to make it a full long weekend to help minimize the lines.
SpaceballsTheComment
Most, if not all European countries vote on Sundays. No need to sacrifice a workday.
taez555
If you're required to buy an ID, doesn't that make it a poll tax?
Maxvla
My state requires voter ID. I have a paper voter ID card that gets sent to me by mail when the old one expires. I've never paid for it.
jwhennig
That’s the reason it’s not allowed in the US. There can’t be ANY money between you and a vote.
Snooj
Yes and that's why. Any state ID should be free but until that time, no ID is required.
korndogg83
I mean every EU country requires every citizen to acquire an ID but yes it would be better to get free replacements.
taez555
Do any of those countries have laws against poll taxes, like the United States does?
Doompug
Not correct. Sweden does not require an ID. The government send a röstkort "vote card" (A paper w your name, person number and where to vote) to your home and you can vote with this if you can get someone 18 yrs or older with an ID to certify that you are the person to whom the card belongs. very few adults lack ID, but the system is deliberately designed to make it possible to vote without cost.
korndogg83
Didn’t know that! Looked it up and you’re right: “They are compulsory in 15 EEA/EFTA countries, voluntary in 11 countries and in 5 countries they are semi-compulsory (some form of identification required)“ - wiki
Doompug
"semi-compulsory" sounds really weird. Like "required-ish".
korndogg83
They will require valid identity documentation but it doesn’t have to be the European identity card, it could be a passport.
TheMadDutchman
The US does not give it's citizens free government id, which means that requiring id to vote is basically a tax on voting, while making voting prohibitively expensive for poor people.
Munchman347
Except for that Social Security Card that says, 'Not to be used for identification', but every thing you interact with demands you provide it as proof of identity...🤡
darthstormer
Also, it's never brought up as a "let's do this now, to be in effect 2028 and give people time to get the id." it's "hey, election's in 8 weeks, let's make this a law NOW"
JesaraB
Normally it's more like "Let's quietly pass this in February, to go into effect with the absolute minimum legal notice on July 31, that means everyone had a full 2 months to take care of it between then and election day, it's their own fault we snuck it past them if they didn't"
darthstormer
"The plans were on full display.... in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'"
jaretac
Which is why the cost of IDs should be covered by the government by taxes
METROlD
How many people wont be able to vote then because they lost their wallet? Its also a slippery slope. Once they are asking for ID, its not too far of a leap for them to ask for proof of citizenship. So now everyone is bringing in their birth certificates and suddenly married women in America cant vote if the name on her license is different than her birth certificate, so now she needs a marriage certificate too. Card a person when they register. But there is no reason to keep carding after that.
jbrightmans
May I ask how do they verify then? If driver's license, state vehicle registration, utility bill, tribal identification, CC statements, etc all work as forms of ID then where's the hang up?
RooGryphon
federal id. tie it to your fingerprints for security. this is what you use to vote. that id card and your fingerprint thats all you need
untrugby
Pretty much every state that has a voter ID requirement has free IDs , and the ones that have fees are something like $2 a year
Knightendae
Yes and no. There has to be an address associated to the person as well. Many social services offices have programs that register you to vote if you're homeless.
Tootsie1
You are also required to have a home address to get one, effectively making it impossible for the homeless to vote.
Banzai51
Not to mention State issued IDs where they are required to vote go though many suspect changes and fee increases in an election year.
inkswitch11
Omfg you need I'd to buy beer. Poor people don't drink?
PupShadowDMcTaggart
The number of times I forgot my passport or my id going out in a city where you don’t need them to drive is infuriating.
SjyiN
So tourists out of the US can vote without id?
SoraHjort
And many places have it setup so that even for a state ID requires the DMV. Yes, an ID that doesn't involve you driving, has to go through the DMV. Which is infamous for quite a few reasons.
wadatahmydamie
Yup. And even if they were “free,” there would be the opportunity cost.
What’s wild to me (@OP, this will fuck with you) is that voter fraud happens *more* often in places with voter ID laws than places like Oregon that exclusively uses mail-in ballots because as it turns out, databases with hard numbers are less error-prone than well-meaning volunteers.
Maxvla
My state requires voter ID and I have a paper voter ID card I've never paid for. I actually don't know where it comes from, I just get a new one when the old one expires. I've never requested one.
Darjanator
So these people can't buy alcohol or go to bars either?
Wolfshead009
There are plenty of places that will not ID if you look old enough.
JoeT85
getting an ID isn't easy. It's a "Prove who you are" scenario. Even with a valid ID, I had to jump hoops and layout 35 clams.
JStengah
Also, the problem it seeks to prevent, people voting more than once, does not happen at a high enough rate to warrant it. And when it does happen, it happens in a way that requiring an ID to vote would not prevent.
RichterCa
Well, I would say the real problem it seeks to prevent is people who are not eligible to vote showing up and voting, presumably by pretending to be someone who is eligible to vote? But again, that isn't a problem that actually happens and needs such a strict remedy.
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
Plus, it doesn't prevent it at all. Only electronic voting rolls updated as soon as you pick up your ballot papers can prevent that.
yazheirx
I looked it up for Wisconsin: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/teen-driver/teen-hw-aply/driver-fees.aspx
Though it looks like there is a way to ask for a free ID for the purpose of voting, it is easy to forget that I pay a fee every 8 years for what seems like getting my picture taken.
cousteau
Don't they make you a very complicated, exhaustive and likely expensive test consisting in "hold these two controllers and try to keep the circles within the lines"?
Jarjarthejedi
The important thing to remember when someone tells you "well there's free ids for voting!" is that those ids require time to acquire, generally need you to get transport to specific locations to get them, and almost always require other documents that are /not/ free to acquire in order to qualify for them. There's basically no way in the USA to get an id for free, and "voter id laws" and "making getting ids harder" go hand-in-hand.
Jarjarthejedi
The moment we get a national free id that requires no time or $$$ for any citizen to acquire is the moment voter id laws stop being a problem. Until then, they're a poll tax, and the venn diagram overlap of "politicians pushing for voter id laws" and "politicians pushing for actual free ids" is two distinct circles...
yamamasyamaha
I’ve always had to present an id to vote. I get there are barriers but it seems like putting programs in place to navigate those barriers and requiring id makes sense.
Arcanum3000
Now go look through the various required document options and think about what it would take to get them if you didn't already have them. https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/documentation.aspx
SarcasticComment
you also have transportation. many don't. our system does everything to make voting hard. ids, no paid time off, on a week day instead of a weekend. That's before you get into fucked voting maps, voting box issues, and more. It is designed to be painful and prohibitive.
Wuz314159
Why pay all of that money when you could just have a bicycle?
VashTehStampede
A Trek? What'd that cost you?
Wuz314159
$750 in 2005. The last of the aluminium forks.
VashTehStampede
Word! That's gonna be expensive for folks struggling to put food on the table.
yazheirx
First, nice Trek. They are one of my customers and a great Wisconsin brand.
Second, I travel a lot. Not just in the Midwest but across the US. Northern Indiana, northern Illinois, eastern Minnesota and Iowa are all much faster to get to by car (and much more eco friendly in an electric car). But driving is a part of my weekdays.
I am lucky enough to live in Milwaukee and don’t have to drive on the weekends, thanks in part to having my own Trek road bike. The Oak Leaf trail is great.
BenderRodriguz1010
Every 4 in Illinois. Sauce is myself. Worked at the DMV for 8 years until this October. It's $20 for an ID and $30 for a license. $5 to change your address on a license and $10-20 for a change of an ID. The homeless and people over 65 can get an ID for free. The documents required aren't always as easy to get as you would hope either, especially if you lost them. The homeless can only get a free ID if they have paperwork from a shelter using the address of the shelter.
hickorybakedbeans
Yeah, I had to change my address last year and just decided to upgrade to the RealID. I'm already up for renewal
BenderRodriguz1010
FYI You can renew up to a year ahead of time
Scorpio
my republican friend always would get mad when he would ask me if I was for voter id, i always told him "yeah! make it free!"
ThisIsStpuid
Voter ID is free in my state (Georgia), as well as in 34 other states.
JesaraB
I don't drive, I medically can't. My ID still isn't free, and several states that do a "free voter ID" explicitly block it from being used as ID for all the other standard functions of a government ID (like opening a bank account, or being used as ID for any purpose at all other than voting).
JesaraB
Just checked, by law, Georgia is one of those, the "Vote ID card" has a list of things that prevent you from getting one (other than not being an eligible voter), and by law cannot be used as identification for any purpose other than voting.
Flenop
It being free and it being easy are two different things. It can be free but need forms and proof of residency and only visiting didn't certain hours and only in a city 30 miles away while you're bedridden, but that doesn't mean it's easy...or for that matter, actually free.
And after just looking at the list of valid forms and methods to obtain, it is neither technically free nor easy.
warriorofdiscord
The person said "it isn't free."
Flenop
Which person? The person I replied to said 'it's free in [their] state (Georgia) along with 34 other states.'
So...