Lanhdanan
81935
3953
115
Nov 10, 2020 12:40 PM
Lanhdanan
81935
3953
115
3Davideo
This post made me pronounce "yachts" as if it rhymed with "lattes".
u77171
It’s because not every crappy job is MEANT to support someone (and possibly family) entirely.
OnlyHereForBooty
You know what they say, can’t be depresso when you got espresso
TurtIeproof
This is what decades of brainwashing by corporate news does to people: turn the people against each other instead of the real enemy.
seckzie
Because the former is more true. Buying fewer yachts will not be enough to raise all wages. Buying less latte could be enough to make rent.
zeiji
for the same reason it's: don't use plastic bags. and not: don't dump industrial waste in the ocean. no corporate reasonability. profit>life
Problemwoodchuck
My old company's CEO told me raises would put us out business when I put in paperwork to get a casher a $1/hr bump right before he left--
Problemwoodchuck
--to spend a month in Europe
AgentPothead
Because humanity is the bad guys.
notasmokealarm
My company “can’t afford to give raises”. Yet the admins make money hand over fist. Glad I have a job interview elsewhere tomorrow...
NoManualProvided
My CEO fired ~50 employees then turned up with a new mclaren. Spend your money how you want, but have some class man...
Cultistchan
i mean the point is to blame and belittle your problems to make you shut up, not to help deal with systemic issues.
Gameofthongs
Because of supply and demand. If you won’t do it for cheap, I’ll get someone else to do it instead.
FNHuskys
Both, people should do both.
Bukkhockey
Because "living wage" is relative and you dumbasses love to virtue signal and then deepthroat amazon and walmart every day.
onecattwocatbigcatsmallcat
Bezos sold another 3 billion dollars of stock this month before the election. I think he needed another island for his monkey
bjorklund
What’s a living wage? In Cali, $100k a year isn’t enough in some places. But in rural MN, $24k is more than enough.
rossPlanetCreator
Because that’s not how the free market works?
theirarefourlights
The free market can be useful but requires regulation and correction in order to serve the people. It doesn’t have a conscience. It can’t.
sadurdaynight
rich people hire social scientists & marketing folks with phd's to find ways into guilt-tripping you into thinking you're the problem
ImWithTheBanned
Why can’t andrea startup her own successful company and then show us all how it’s supposed to be done?
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
Yeah, why doesn't everyone just start a successful company without money? What's wrong with these people, are they dumb?
ImWithTheBanned
Ambition, focus, patience and frugality, how do they work?
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
Are you a billionaire?
ImWithTheBanned
Not even close to a millionaire.
SnowpersonHitInTheFaceWithALackOfCreativity
So why aren't you one? If it's so easy and you have the answers.. just go get rich
gggihgg
But people really shouldn't be buying 7$ milk shakes and calling it coffee. Two things are wrong here.
Captainplanetmotherfucker
I reckon nothing short of a revolution is going to fix shit like this.
thisisprocrastination
The revolutions 100 years ago sure fixed it real good... oh wait...
NeverEnoughFoxes
Greed is a helluv a drug.
MikeKeyser
My grandad was a commission based salesman. he made more money than the managers. they screwed with his territory and handicapped him...1/2
MikeKeyser
he went to their competitor and took his customers with him, and this first place was shut down in under a year. 2/2
MikeKeyser
Moral: keep your eyes on your own plate and don't punish the people who make you money
pooples
Any educated person schooled in economics care to answer this?
LynzardQueen
Bc if they keep the poor quiet we won't try to eat the rich.
Mclld
It is true though, no one is entitled to have lattes etc. If you are struggling then live in your means. Lattes are a luxury
Someguy1hi
Seriously. I see no problem with the advice of not buying lattes if you cant pay your rent. Budgeting your resources is not bad advice.
FOURozLOAD
Take out coffee is CRAZY expensive. 2-3$ a day? 60-90$ a month could buy a lot of homebrew. And they don't even have Bailey's at Starbucks.
GrandProtectorDark
Irrelevant. It's a stereotype used to justify not giving the poor better lifes. Raising wages does good. Not bad
johnnyboinc
Just because the other side of the argument is valid, doesn't mean it's irrelevant. They're both good pieces of advice.
Mclld
No not irrelevant, if you are struggling or poor or have very limited money you need to prioritize
Mclld
I have been poor and I didn't whine and cry and think I was entitled to luxuries because I wasn't. I focused on nessesities
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
You think coffee's a luxury that poor people should give up? Wow, you guys really do live in a shithole. Basic comfort only for the rich.
Mclld
Noni certainly don't think coffee is a luxury and didn't say that specifically but yeah Starbucks shouldn't be on your list of priorities
discotheque42
Why not both? Consumerism is a serious problem in this country. If employers raised minimum wage to $15, you'd still have tons of people ->
discotheque42
living paycheck-to-paycheck. People will just spend the extra money on more useless shit. Increased wages must be accompanied with ->
Gayforbae
Theres plenty of studies that show the majority of vulnerqble people when given a cash influx, will invest in their future responsibly.
discotheque42
improved education, and a cultural de-emphasis on consumerism.
theirarefourlights
Regulation to stop planned obsolescence would be good. Reward repairability and longevity. That’s not individuals’ responsibility.
discotheque42
You can vote with your wallet. Buy quality over price. I want Amazon to require clear labeling of country of origin for all their products.
theirarefourlights
Not everyone can afford to vote with their wallet. I can but I can’t change Apple’s policies. Need a bigger solution than individuals.
Nobody7713
Unfortunately changing culture is a lot more difficult and takes more time than changing laws.
discotheque42
And yet I firmly beleive it will take both to achieve real improvement. Our history is full of examples of how just legislating doesn't work
BlueBarnstormer
And what about the people who will use that extra money to improve their lives? Deny them because of a stereotype that isnt them?
Aaronbobaron
That's how strawman arguments works, you just make up an imaginary person to throw a legitimate point out the window and we go nowhere.
Green223
This, the lattes thing is just a softcore version of, "we can't pay the poor more money because they'll just get addicted to drugs."
discotheque42
Where in anything I said did you see me denying anything? Did you purposely miss the point?
theirarefourlights
Sounded like you were against/denying raising wages.
BlueBarnstormer
You used a stereotype to trash an entire class of people. If you dont see that I suggest you read your comments again.
PatricktheDuckToller
The average small business owner earns $59,000/ year according to PayScale, a compensation research company.
jimfalconer611
Strawman much? That’s not what the point. Small businesses get fucked by the big guys just as much as the employees of big guys
Splitlicker
I'll tell you one point that hurts. Living above your means is gonna get you in trouble no matter your income. A large % of people do it.
Gatorjon
The rich are so hated that people are willing to look past policies that damage small business owners just to hurt the wealthy.
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
You think it's impossible to put together policies that only affect the wealthy?
Gatorjon
No, but we haven't yet. It's extremely hard because there is a lot of overlap in regulation.
TheDayTheBrainStoodStill
There is some overlap. But it's extremely hard because it's in the interest of the wealthy that it not happen, not because of overlap.
rexkraft
If only there was a way to differenciate between people that make a fuckton of money and people that don't...
Gatorjon
Small businesses and large business both make money through mostly the same processes.
PhillyDillyDee
No one is talking about small business owners here. See, You can tell because small business owners overwhelmingly dont have yachts.
Excludos
Wait.. really? Damn! I was going to open my own business, but if I can't have yachts at the expense of my employees, what's even the point?
ClassyReposts
Respectfully, you are wrong. Says up there "pay your employees". Big business owners aren't the only one doing that. Sure you can naively
ClassyReposts
that raising the minimum wage to where it denies a big boss their yacht will have no effect on small businesses, but that's not reality.
PhillyDillyDee
Where does it say that again? Tags or something? I dont see it. Anyway yachts are mentioned so im stickin to mah guns.
ClassyReposts
It's in the posted image, it's a literal quote.
PhillyDillyDee
“If you cant pay your employees a living wage...” that doesnt look like what you quoted fren
qwaszx8888
Half of US workers are at small businesses so when you make bs statements about employers, yeah, ya kinda are.
Gayforbae
Half? Show. Your. Work.
qwaszx8888
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=percent+of+us+workers+employed+by+small+business
PhillyDillyDee
So Thanks for making my point for me. Keep shilling for those mega corps champ.
CheddarDreams
This post is about the mega rich, not small business owners
qwaszx8888
this post is about employers which !== "the mega rich" and continues this false narrative that business owners are somehow writ large evil
CheddarDreams
I disagree that this post is about ALL business owners. Im a business owner myself and certainly don't think it's about people like me
PhillyDillyDee
Its amazing how few of those small business employ over 20 people. Over half of those same people you’re trotting out work for themselves.
qwaszx8888
Whats your point? That small businesses dont count? Or self employed people dont deserve a living wage and should work for someone else?
PhillyDillyDee
Really? I thought it was pretty clear. Large corporations fight unionization and chew up and spit out the working class with zero regard.
qwaszx8888
Your argument is tired and thin. Complaining about employers while a record vote is 2/3 of 2/3 of the US electing anti reg GOP pols. Smh.
GrandProtectorDark
Quit excusing the broken system
GgE39HRbQknyur
Oh my god how stupid can a person get?
qwaszx8888
i don't know, keep going, you're doing great so far!
GgE39HRbQknyur
I know, right? You, on the other hand... you need to educate yourself.
PhillyDillyDee
Dunno. How vague can a person get? Just joshin. but who we talkin about here?
GgE39HRbQknyur
The guy who said that over half of US workers are at small businesses. Their logic is impeccable.
thevortexmaster
I owned a small restaurant in a small town. I tried to pay my employees the best i could while working 14 hour days to do so. No yachts here
jadanks
I bet you also probably also pay your taxes too! Ha! Cant buy yachts when you pay your fair share in taxes! /s
EternalSunshineofthePotlessMind
You know how lots of politicians tell us to use LED bulbs and high efficiency furnaces while still taking oil lobby money? You're the guy 1
EternalSunshineofthePotlessMind
Getting yelled at for using up your old incandescent light bulbs. Not BP polluting the gulf coast. 2/2
thevortexmaster
Agreed. You should reply to your own comment though. Makes it easier to understand. Cheers!
dirkvdm99
The problem with the general public (workforce) is that they think ALL businesses are gold mines. Please, take blame for your own failures
kevinallover
Small businesses need not apply. Especially ones with razor thin margins like restaurants.
thevortexmaster
No doubt eh
rubypilgrim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlJnznzkSf4 you don't run a giant bank.
thevortexmaster
No i don't
rubypilgrim
fwiw - my sister is in your shoes. She's run her business successfully for 52 years. Now facing bankruptcy because 2020 stuff. it's awful
thevortexmaster
That sucks! I got out of it around 14 years ago. I loved parts of it but the stress was too much
Einer
And small business employs most of people, and yet trying to punish big business because of yachts will hit small business mostly.
Balarezok2
Small business owner here. And no. Controlling the insanity of big business only helps us.
Einer
How increasing your costs will help you?
NoChance16
Because the number of customers will increase to a level that increases revenues over any increased costs. All economic models show this.
lovingspace
Statistically speaking, most company owners are not buying themselves yachts.
Lynx7386
About 1%of them are
lovingspace
Yeap. But they are all labelled the same way and attacked the same way. Perhaps we need to stop oversimplifying matters...
v4iyf7y4pf1337
Few young people seem to understand that “profit” and “capitalism” aren’t dirty words. Look at SpaceX and Tesla. Good outcomes are possible.
pattalam
Lies and damn lies. We know all business owners are taking millions in salary and buying multiple yachts.
thevortexmaster
You got me!
blueptdairy1337
Small businesses aren't the problem. Big corporations are! Higher ups get greedy off the backs of the workers
PinkyTheUnicorn2
I don't think the profits of small businesses are the issue.
JimmyTedesco
Then obviously you dont have to buy fewer yachts
Skywatcher16
that makes you the good guy exception. the above however, is the rule you are exception to.
thevortexmaster
I assume that's mostly for large corporations over small businesses owners. I know lots of small businesses owners from my time doing it>>>
thevortexmaster
In my small town and most were the same. Word travels fast in a small cut off town for anything from prices raises to asshole owners
Skywatcher16
not mostly. lotta small business owners do it to, though they at least can legitimately argue that they cant afford to to a degree. glad to
Skywatcher16
hear you and your fellows dont though. always comforting to see good shine in a dreary world.
thevortexmaster
Hahaha thanks. This was like 15-20 years ago. I had to quit. The stress was killing me and turning me into an alcoholic. No regrets though
Lanhdanan
If you don't own a yacht, then this won't apply. The system could be better to small & medium business owners if the 1% weren't so well off.
thevortexmaster
No doubt
AdamMemeSmasher
5 people. 5 people hold over 80% of our wealth.
abitskeptical
How about whoever believes your post fucks off and both sides just make responsible financial decisions
HairyChairstepper
Translation: I'm going to be the yacht owner someday
abitskeptical
How about whoever believes you fucks off and starts making better comment decisions (:
Lanhdanan
Translation: Mute me please.
TheDogEnd
Why do middle-class small business owners always interject into conversations about the wealthy? You're closer to being homeless than rich.
rudejohn
When you attack employers for not paying enough, you aren't just attacking some.
isitva
Because many people thank that if you own a business you are wealthy. Many people have no gray area.
Decemberscrow
Because some have the same mentality. I used to work for a small business where the owner refused to give me a raise after 2 years. But 1/2
Decemberscrow
Despitr saying he couldn't afford it "this year" regularly spent more at his golf club than my monthly salary. 2/2
Decemberscrow
If he really wanted to he could have given everyone in the office a raise for less than he was spending on lessons.
Decemberscrow
Or not bought a new car every year. Or not taken first class flights to Florida every two weeks. Or not paid all his 20+ daughters expenses
thevortexmaster
Because the employees are still the same people buying the same stuff and living the same life i guess
Brookimus741
Because while people dont usually mean them, there are still a handful of people with extreme views that attack small businesses also.
IHateCakeDays
Because they are the ones being hurt when left takes out pitchforks. They not protecting billionaires, they don’t like their kids burned
qwaszx8888
Honestly dont bother. The people who post this shit dont know and dont care about how economics works.
thevortexmaster
Well I'm not American hahaha but i agree
qwaszx8888
The latte factor thing is US pop finance. Fwiw $5/day for your whole career at modest % is $300k off a $50k nut. Most ppl can find $5 a day.
qwaszx8888
Its a thought exercise on how to view your money. Even small changes can add up. *vague disgust*
thevortexmaster
No doubt. Its $5 for a latte here as well. Cheaper to be an alcoholic hahaha
qwaszx8888
For real. Im mad bc i bought KCups bc im lazy and they were about $.20 each. Usually $.50 ea! Imagine $5 a day. I work in NYC. 2 lattes and/
Lanhdanan
Do think the current corporate tax amount is fair, and do you think offshore holdings in tax havens with money gained here is proper?
qwaszx8888
this arg that "employers" are exploiting is bs. Stop voting in the same shit reps that dereg and collab with corp lobbies. Corps are not /
qwaszx8888
going to do anything they're not compelled to do by regulation, and half of US employers are small businesses. Lemme tell you, it's real /
qwaszx8888
effin hard to run a successful small business, and that's half the payroll in the US. These sweeping generalizations are just distractions /
qwaszx8888
i think the nominal rate of 21% is fine but that's not the effective rate and yes that's a problem, as is offshoring money, for HUGE corps
PhillyDillyDee
Perhaps this doesnt apply to you then eh? See, this is meant to call attention to the flaws inherent in our corporate feudalism.
travellis
Doesn't apply to 90% of the businesses, TBH.
Darkaren
Thats the problem when ppl talk about the 1% really. Most (NOT ALL) business that can't afford living wages can't afford a yacht either lol.
Gatorjon
But the proposed labor solutions do apply to them and could severely impact their business.
aoenofhorus
They don’t care. The economy is a cartoon to these people. Try asking them any questions about how to differentiate. It’s sad.
thevortexmaster
I don't doubt it but it doesn't exactly specify. I just feel attacked! Hahaha
spiffylookingnerfherder
No need to feel attacked unless you were out buying a second yacht while one or more employees were struggling through no fault of their own
thevortexmaster
Nah i was being silly
PhillyDillyDee
Its all good. Typically no one directs these comments to those individuals brave enough to start their own small business. I salute you.
HateEqually
All business started out small. Some just do better then others and allow the owners to buy yatchs.
thevortexmaster
thanks! I didn't actually start it though. I started working there at 12 then took it over at 23. Small town stuff i guess hahaha
PhillyDillyDee
Still. Thats a rough biz
RootMeanSqr
That is what keeps us all divided and the CEO's like it that way.
HateEqually
No they don't
thevortexmaster
Us? I mean there's not a whole lots of massive corporations in small cut off from everything Canadian towns
RootMeanSqr
Well, if the rich keep sucking wealth from people, they have less money to spend in your business. But sure, lets keep screwing each other.
AcademyStarbuck
Sorry but if your business isn’t profitable, it isn’t the employees “fault”. Everyone should have access to unions and good pay.
TheOrginalStack
Someone loan this man a business he can ruin. "Everyone" is not entitled to good pay.You work hard for good pay. Unions are no longer needed
bamboolemur
I think what he is saying is that he basically gets modest pay himself. He isn't necessarily taking piles of money just for himself.
isitva
Yes!!! local Jersey Mikes Union 447!!!
kevinallover
You haven't looked into the operating costs of a restaurant. Start-up costs alone put you in the red from the start, and razor-thin >
kevinallover
> margins make paying back your loans a real struggle. There's a reason 80% of restaurants fail within the first year. You need a business >
kevinallover
> manager to run things efficiently, but adding one to the payroll adds to operational costs.
Chris412cs
Most restaurants exploit their employees for $2.13 an hour though because it's legal.
thevortexmaster
Bingo
thevortexmaster
Of course not but how do you expect a small restaurant in a small cut off town with 2 employees to start a union? I paid them the best>>>>
Gayforbae
This isnt about you, sweety.
thevortexmaster
Well there was no real indication but i getcha. Employees are employees no matter where they work
Gayforbae
If you are rich enough tonown a yacht, then its about you, that was the indication, but youve made about you with all your comments.
thevortexmaster
I could without me making much money. As soon as you start selling tacos at $20 a pop then i could probably pay them great. Would you buy>>>
thevortexmaster
Buy A $20 taco, $200 a meal so an teenager could make $30 an hour? This is basically every small restaurant ever.
DeeDoubleYu
That's rough man, what would need to change in order for you to easily pay higher wages? (Genuine question!)
Chris412cs
It isn't just teens with these min wage jobs. Roughly 2/3 are over 50. Do they deserve a living wage or should those jobs just not exist?
AcademyStarbuck
Without better pay these workers don’t have savings/retirement/down payment for housing. You can’t rase prices because a competitor will be/
trekkiedane
Won't someone please think of the poor private-yacht-builders?
StooperDave
Your actually not far off. Wealthy people keep several trades like that alive.
trekkiedane
1: Now, imaging, if you will, alll of that trade and money going towards making less wealthy peope have better lives -instead of letting
trekkiedane
2: people think they're our betters!
bloodydingo
If they're poor then they should buy fewer lattes? It's the circle of fuck you.
trekkiedane
Oh, but won't someone think of the poor latte-companies...
Oracle547
Now I want a yachtte
trekkiedane
A yachtette isn't a bad thing to want -and it might even be a thing you could afford!
ReadMyLeaders
Ah yes, the forgotten minority
TangledUpInMyHead
Hubs works for a yacht company. Their business is BOOMING. However, their parent company lays down unrealistic goals so thru dont have 1/2
TangledUpInMyHead
To follow through with the bonuses that are supposed to be a part of their compensation. Buncha bullshit.
BruceMan200
Sacha Baron Cohen has a great bit with a yacht builder in "Who is America" the guy agrees to build chambers for carrying sex slaves
MonkeyFunToday
ElbowDeepInUserSub
"Millennials are destroying the yacht industry!"
trekkiedane
"Click here to find out how millenials also destroy the livelihood of caviar-importers."
Canucklesammich
"But the De Voss family is keeping it afloat"
azgrak
91’ Luxury tax from George HW Bush devastated the US yacht industry. Most production moved to Europe.
trekkiedane
I heard something about the failing German shipyards diversifying... now I know how.
aap71
Nordhavn, Benetti, Azimut, Riva, Feretti, Navi/Perini Feadship, Ocean Alexander, Selene, Kady Krogen etc. are all foreign. USA makes tugs
Zetor
That argument has been used, unironically.
chloramphenicolderivative
Clinton put a luxury tax on yachts and 10k+ people lost their jobs.
trekkiedane
ClassyReposts
I have used that argument unironically. Not to argue that they shouldn't pay minimum wage, but to argue that luxury items are how we can
subduedreader
Did you ever watch Agatha Christie's Tommy & Tuppence aka Partners in Crime? That argument is presented in the first actual episode.
ClassyReposts
Don't think I've seen that - gotta be honest it's been a while since I've seen and Agathat Christie film.
DrSpatula
ClassyReposts
keep the money of rich people circulating, instead of them just growing a hoard that gets bigger and bigger. A lot of people do not
MudkippikduM
Oh boy here we go
ClassyReposts
understand that concept and use simple 2nd grade level argumentation to denounce luxury items entirely, mind you.
[deleted]
[deleted]
MudkippikduM
It was the trickle-down! How cool if it actually worked!
MudkippikduM
I smell trickle-down...
ClassyReposts
Kinda. Look, people like to say "trickle down doesn't work", which is a very short statement for such a complicated thing as economics. Does
ClassyReposts
just hoping for trickle down somehow magically make capitalists do the right thing and pay good wages? Hell no, a business will save money
IDimmadome
The yachts are actually built by the working class and actually employ a significant amount of people in my town. Not really a joke.
ElbowDeepInUserSub
Funny thing is in my plan we don't necessarily need fewer yachts in general, but we have to share them responsibly.
IDimmadome
Yacht timeshare? Sounds nice. Lol
ElbowDeepInUserSub
Yes! Book a birthday party, or a wedding. Actually use them rather than hoarding them.
FireBreathingStockBroker
That defeats the purpose of owning a yacht. Anyone can rent a yacht.
IDimmadome
Unfortunately there's little other industry in the area.
bentren
Where is this private yacht land?
ZeroLogain
I think we should change the taxes so that it isn't necessarily high taxes on income, but on increase in liquid and capital growth. 1/
ZeroLogain
Sort of like go ahead, make 100million a year, but fucking spend it so as to keep it in the system. Eat fancy buy expensive dont hoard it
IDimmadome
Everything goes more smoothly if people can afford what they need.
IDimmadome
I can definitely argue that nobody "needs" a yacht, but I also understand that people who have those jobs need people to buy boats.
trekkiedane
I'm so sorry for you, but what you're saying is that the voters should have thought of all the poor prostitutes that will become unemployed
trekkiedane
2: When Trump and his cronies go to jail...
IDimmadome
I think it was pretty clear I was just talking about who builds the boats.
trekkiedane
-And their communities, I hope.
IDimmadome
Yeah. It's pretty shit all around. Other options are basically big corp run locations and maybe the casinos. Small businesses are dying.