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MRW CNN rews reporter Ashleigh Banfield blasts the Aziz Ansari accuser on live TV and calls her accusations "reckless and hollow"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU
Ivanaski
This lady gets it.
boozehammerer
That last line was fantastic
NatiLite
Fuck yes it was.
IjustWannaParty
What was the last line?
JerzeeTomato
I'm pretty certain his balls are brown...
Circlelurk
THRAWN18
We found Grace lol
ThatFantasticChicken
GIVEMETHECOFFEE
Just wait. Everyone knows what to do.
SaltismySugar
I actually do not know what to do, I would love to know tho since it seems like I ought to.
TheVoiceOfMorganFreeman
Why not the Winchester and have a pint.
usersubbordercontrol
Grab my Winchester?
hammerfix
i dont know what we are supposed to do!
DarkwingDuc
Go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.
CatPresident
Yo everyone I'm at the Winchester waiting for this whole thing to blow over. Aziz is here too. Come down for a pint y'all let's party.
spookyghost13
Go to the Winchester?
VitaminJay
Have a pint, let this all blow over.
moon2A
HorsefaceBeeguy
What is this Aziz anari thing about
IFoundABodyByTheLake
Google it
YCMEHSFI
Dumbass woman accused him of being sexually aggressive after he tried to engage in consensual sex but apparently she said no "nonverbally"
Aranyszin
He was pushy and douchey. But even she admits he stopped when she said no.
YCMEHSFI
She said he even apologized the next day too. That should've been the end of it then. Just another media whore looking for attention
steve77777777
what did he do. I haven't heard.
Kay2015
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
theyar
She pursued him despite him trying to avoid her, eventually he agreed to a date, after drinks at his place, then dinner out, then drinks 1/?
theyar
again at his place, then oral on each other, she decided he was weird and she wanted to be his girlfriend not one-time hookup, she said 2/?
theyar
"slow down" a couple times, which he thought meant "let's keep doing it but slower" but she meant "let's date for a long time first" and 3/?
theyar
she stayed watching TV naked on his couch and he tried a couple more times to keep it going and she eventually left and three months 4/?
theyar
later she went to the press and said he was a sexual aggressor and sexually assaulted her. Started putting it on Twitter and stuff too. 5/5
thebarestbear
I wonder what judge judys thoughts are on this?
deekadeek
We all have too much time on our hands and should get a job. Oh, and Ridiculous.
usersubbordercontrol
My ex did basically this, but only between school. Then she got expelled for bringing in weapons and saying she would use on me... Gonna
usersubbordercontrol
Keep this link around, in case she starts some shit again. People really don't care about others, or their own integrity sometimes
Zeroforwinger
Media: don't give us easy headlines. We clearly don't have enough discipline to verify stories before we report on them
Timetoroll
This component of the whole fiasco is what bothered me the most. Why give the story so many headlines when it was clearly not a sexual 1/2
Timetoroll
2/2Case?? Gahh
Kangadilla
Y'all got any more of them pixels..?
TCGView
Ashleigh called that shit just right. If you're raped, why on earth would you go to the press first and not the police?
SeanBeanDiesAlot
The Guardian and some other publications are going at this story as well and saying that the journalist and accuser are out of line
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
There's a reason it was published in Babe.net
dogestyle
This. The journalist who went with this story has a huge responsibility there as well.
lawideas
People love witch hunts until someone they like gets targeted.
SadBoner
Hell yes to that last line.
whatupcorgibutt
If I accused every guy that I went on a date with of harassment because they wanted me to touch their dick then it’d be 90% of dudes
pacobedejo
You're ugly or unobservant 10% of the time.
whatupcorgibutt
Humans are sexual creatures it’s just the way we go about it. Being pushy isn’t a crime but it is rude
somellama
How about 91% ;)
cunninlynguist
Jesus Christ, yes!
Ostinisdehsechz
thats what i said. if i had regrettable sex, i would have been raped like 90% of the time.
FusterCluckCaps
Pretty much. I've been in some uncomfortable spots, but nothing I would consider harassment.
NotTodayNotYesterday
Guess that means Terry Crews made a mountain out of a mole hill.
malikcarr
What makes you think that isn't the objective...? We live in a world where ultrafeminists and the Catholic Church are allies.
Aranyszin
Ladies, I hate to break it to you but - if we ask you out on a date, we want to have sex with you. The sooner the better. Some are more
Aranyszin
courteous and respectful than others about it. Some are more generous and appreciative. But if you accept a date, know that he WANTS to have
Aranyszin
sex. You are NOT obligated to provide it. Of course. He has to make it work. But if you think he doesn't know yet, because you don't,
Aranyszin
you're wrong, you're lying to yourself, and you're probably going to have a bad time.
MrSwaggerMcJaeger
Nah man, if i ask someone out its not because im looking to bang her, its because i like her.
Donkeymong
100% the other 10% were just too shy to say.
SirBillington
Well let's also say 5% were secretly gay.
DougTheLlama
At least 1% were 8 story tall crustaceans from the protozoic era
LemmiwinksKingofGerbils
Are you mocking apache attack helicopters? Is it a joke to you?
SirBillington
BecomeAnAstronaut
You've dated 90% of dudes? Damn that's a lot of dates
dogestyle
what can we say, we're the 90% and we get screwed over
elizardo
She dated 100% of dudes. 90% were pushy. Ftfy
Abso
tfti :/
Bassaker
See? We (men) are not kidding when we say we don't get subtle hints.
Aranyszin
And I will say this too - if you KNOW for CERTAIN that you do NOT want to sleep with a guy, and will not want to - do not go on the date.
Aranyszin
You don't have to know you want to. And you are CERTAINLY not obligated to. But you should at least be on the fence about it. Maybe not that
Aranyszin
night. I mean, your timeline is perfectly fine. But if you absolutely KNOW you don't, and won't, and you accept the date - you are taking
Aranyszin
advantage of his hope.
Aranyszin
Because we interpret the date as you knowing what we want and inviting us to make our case. Once again - if the guy thinks you "owe" him
xoverthirtyx
That’s the problem. We have a culture that normalizes # like that. It’s sexual harassment & ‘boys will be boys’ according to these replies.
actuallyjustluke
If consent has to be "clear and enthusiastic" then equally, refusal should be clear and definitive, and not be composed solely of cues,
actuallyjustluke
which, yes, most people are probably ably wired to receive and understand, but which frankly don't suffice for the blockheaded.
xoverthirtyx
Non consent IS the refusal. If I say u can’t have my dollar you’re no less a thief if you take it because YOU think I didn’t refuse better.
abadgerwithatroubledpastandnothinglefttolose
People wanting to have sex IS normal. That's simple biology, and a very necessary piece of human biology at that.
xoverthirtyx
So is hunger but that doesn’t mean its normal to take other people’s food off their plates because you’re hungry.
abadgerwithatroubledpastandnothinglefttolose
The comment to which you originally responded affirmed only the inherent desire for sex -- not the forcing thereof. Your analogy needs work.
xoverthirtyx
I didn’t think it was that clear, but sure I can agree w that.
NotAHugeSpider
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
The key difference is if you felt pressured.
Ostinisdehsechz
its amazing how you can just be like "no. im not going to suck your dick. you're weird. bye."
swordofodin
That would be amazing if sleeping with the person wasn’t the only way you can get away unharmed.
Donkeymong
Unless that person has power over you or uses force that makes no fucking difference what so ever. You could just leave.
swordofodin
Actually just trying to leave can make things scarier :/
xoverthirtyx
Or people can stop normalizing that behavior.
Donkeymong
Huh? How am i normalizing it? Im just saying theres a big difference between being creepy and being a rapist.
xoverthirtyx
People normalize harassment & abuse by saying it’s no big deal in comparison to rape because ‘boys will be boys’.
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/mccarthy.html
Donkeymong
Not trying to be rude but im pretty tired could i get a tl;dr?
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
For instance, here is documented cases of women trying to say 'no':
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
It's part of the reason why domestic violence victims don't just leave. Leaving can often have deadlier consequences for women.
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
Basically women being traditionally weaker adopt a strategy of befriending and going along instead of running away to avoid violence.
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/
MegaDiogenes
The 'victim' also explained that Aziz made contact the next day and apologised heavily for his actions.
EvilMrHyde
smoother
v
TrapsAreIllegal
What's crazy is that even The View. THE FUCKING VIEW. Called her out.
Noob3rts
I haven't been keeping up with this. Has it really come down hard on Aziz? I don't understand why they are saying his career ended. Did iT?
b1ggulpshuh
He can never regain his previous reputation or public image...so that's pretty big
dogestyle
Well I'm certainly not going on a date with him now that I know that he's going to shove his fingers down my throat
Exileddude
Different strokes, for different folks.
dogestyle
Also, he's got only ONE TYPE of wine, eww!
Exileddude
Bruh, I don't drink wine. You think he would have vodka?
jpparkenbone
Nothing announced yet, but it is conceive az ble that execs could sever ties with him to avoid controversy.
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
So are we not supposed to try to convince women to have sex with us anymore? Not saying coerce, force, or harass,but appropriately persuade?
arcadia2000
I think we're all just trying to nail down the "appropriate" part. =[
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
How about no force, no coercive use of drugs, power or position, and "no" is the end of it? But leave the mind reading out of it.
demosthenes89
"Trying to convince them" implies that they don't want to have sex with you. So no, you shouldn't pressure or persuade. They should want to.
actuallyjustluke
From her account, Aziz sounds like he's really sexually inexperienced, and hugely overcompensating for something, but what I read was
actuallyjustluke
an account of a gross guy with no manners and girl without the good sense to leave him to masturbate alone.
demosthenes89
I had the same thought, and I honestly just feel bad for him. He needs a girl to sit him down and say "oh honey no, that's not sexy."
AmHumanNotLizardMan
If you don't know the game, you're gonna make mistakes. With no exp, how do you know to be more assertive or relaxed? Other party might /1
AmHumanNotLizardMan
not be the most revealing in what they want, so you have to take a stance at some point.
englebertfistybuns
If you’re not interested in someone, walk away. Don’t go back to their apartment and have them go down in you then go down on them.
wormsdie
Slytherwin
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
ButterfaceTaintClown
Donald Trump.
xoverthirtyx
All trials start w someone standing accused. But it’s the victims of abuse that have been historically blamed & silenced by society.
NeutralPitStopCommenter
Not to feminists it seems
whoisthiswoman
1/2 Funny enough, Margaret Atwood made a public comment about due process and innocent until proven guilty and was quoted
whoisthiswoman
as “declaring war against younger, less powerful women.”
WithPride
Doesn't seem to exist in our society
hesadeadmann
Unfortunately, in terms of public accusations, it's "guilty, even when proven innocent."
PangolinBan
Doesn’t really apply, does it? The facts, what happened, are not in dispute. Whether they constitute harrassment or assault is.
dexterousgek
You're going to get a lot of "THAT ONLY APPLIES IN COURT!" nonsense and how we're allowed to crucify people OUTSIDE of court.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
It's not nonsense, it's actual fact. It does only apply in court.
Aathas
Court of public opinion and all that.
chromed
Court of public opinion is clearly going to crucify this woman, and then buy aziz a cake. Which public have you been listening to?
Aathas
Hopefully you're right. But there's still a portion of that public that feels otherwise.
735824
Republicans.
Barkinsons
People slowly realize that the movement has gained a bit too much traction, we need to sort this by severity eventually
HonestCommentFarmer
Well there's a reason she went to the press to punish him and not, say, a court of law.
todayok
Some media outlets, Fox for example, pay for 'exclusive' interviews.
scarface98
Mob justice through social media
Kiszh
Tumblr leaked, then we continued to just call them a loud minority. Not taking their insanity seriously brought us this and legitimized them
CymbalMonkee
What happened to this reaction for the Louis CK accusations?
ZombeyHepburn
Weren’t his proven true? Didn’t he, himself, admit it? Sorry if I’m wrong
CymbalMonkee
So did Aziz though. I mean, I'm mostly being cheeky here. None of the women that Louis "assaulted" were with him in a romantic/sexual 1/
CymbalMonkee
situation. He forced them into that situation, but he didn't touch em, he didn't shut down their careers, he didn't damage 2/
CymbalMonkee
reputations... He was just a major creep. And he got fucking crucified. I'm clearly in the minority here, but I think Aziz' behavior 3/
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
It is used as legal code, not one to determine if a guy was a creep or did something wrong. That doesn't apply here.
adderol
See “The Peoples Court” and “TMZ”....public opinion courts and prosecutors...
Snooj
Social media begat social justice.
dangerousDoc
Doesn't work anymore what with the sjw crowd
JPDG13
For many women, attention is greater than justice.
WSGilbert
Everyone is innocent until speculated guilty- the paedofinder general
CaptCorgi
Its still applies if he wanted to try and defend himself he could accuse her of slander. But he prolly just wants hit to pass on naturally.
Ghost0fDawn
Media
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Still applies where it always did, in court.
[deleted]
[deleted]
FloodingWaters
well, yeah.
wzzt
how does that help when people get fired and lose their family and worse before charges are even filed?
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
What do you want to do, make it illegal for people to talk about their experiences?
CreamNinja
There's a slight difference in sharing their experience vs openly accusing a named individual, leaving them to the mercy of the public
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
So you want to make it illegal?
InOtterSpace
Every man is now a rapist until proven otherwise
[deleted]
[deleted]
NotABadLookingNarcissist
Dave Chappell put it great in his latest special. the black community needed good white folks during civil rights and women need good men
getridofTheSeaword
No, but when multiple women come forward with identical stories it’s real hard to doubt all of them.
NotTodayNotYesterday
What does that mean for the man Terry Crews had accused? Oh, right, he's only believed cause he has a Y chromosome.
NotABadLookingNarcissist
I consider hyperbole as rape.
boatymcboatfaceplant
I don't want to be an insensitive prick but isn't going back to someone's apartment at the end of a date a bit of a suggestion you are 1/2
NotTodayNotYesterday
Nope. Simple as that.
PersonaAuGratin
I would say not necessarily. Taking your clothes off and receiving clumsy oral sex? I'd put that in the "yes" column.
0956
Moving away and saying you want to slow down is a big signal too.
0956
Moving away and saying you want to slow down is a big signal too.
boatymcboatfaceplant
Not just interested in their stamp collection? Not saying thats consent or justification but seems a bit of a signal you might want more?2/2
MistressLyda
Indeed. And "next time", and pulling away is a decent indication of that they for whatever reason is not interested anymore.
boatymcboatfaceplant
Seriously I'm not saying agreeing to go is consent. I'm just saying why not bail then and there?
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
It's USUALLY seen as a signal that you're interested in doing SOMETHING intimate. But that could be as innocent as a kiss and it's totally 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
unfair to assume it means anything at all. Someone could have agreed and then changed their mind. Or maybe they actually were interested 2
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
in that stamp collection! 3/3
Mdp2525
No. If men can’t read minds; women can’t either. Some women will accept as a continuation of the date not necessarily expectation of sex>
Mdp2525
They may want to make out or have some privacy, they may want sex. It’s why assumptions can’t be made. Communicate.
theyar
To me it's consent to make sexual advances. No requirement to accept them, but as long as you're there (and naked), you're at least 1/2
theyar
consenting to me *trying* to get on you. Until you say no and/or try to leave. 2/2
ThisIsPasta
The fuck do YOU know about my stamp collection.
boatymcboatfaceplant
Well, I don't want to go to your place at night to come see it that's for sure :)
SteveNotSteve
Plot twist: collection consists of erotic stamps sure to put any lady in the mood.
JanaJustinsdottir
You are 110% allowed to go to someone s place after a date and not have sex. You re 110% allowed to go there and be sexual c/out having...
JanaJustinsdottir
Sex. Everyone has their own pace, and you shouldn t force ppl into sex if they say they re not ready. Lord, every one of my relationships...
JanaJustinsdottir
Has had a period where I d stay with my boyfriend overnight and we d just cuddle, and make out. Whatever happened to the bases? Jesus.
boatymcboatfaceplant
You are completely right. But this is a first date. I'd just avoid the whole thing and save it for later dates I guess. One time a lady 1/4
Lezio
What if he decides to disclose who she is? Let's see if she can manage that.
HighlandPotatoe
Honestly I think he is above that.
Donkeymong
He is luckily for her. A lot of people in his position would be suing her right now.
Hashbrown123
He didn't disclose it but someone found out. Now all of her social media accounts are closed or set to private.
HighlandPotatoe
I find it so funny she outed herself. The pitchforks and torches are on their way
Hashbrown123
I was wrong, she revealed herself.
nickdoesntsharefood
People (not just these type of women) should be called up on their shit more often..
JanaJustinsdottir
What should she be “called out” on exactly? She s not accusing him of a crime. She s saying she went on a date with him, and he was creepy
JanaJustinsdottir
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
Pastaislove
She is saying it was sexual assault.
JanaJustinsdottir
Read the article, she explicitly says it wasn t
arcadia2000
Even if you set aside the fact that she's claiming sexual assault, it's what, tacky? To blab to everyone and anyone about the whole thing.
JanaJustinsdottir
She explicitly said she s not accusing him of sexual assault right in the beginning of the article. So where is that narrative coming from?
Ghostshenanigans
Liam neeson recently called this all a witch hunt which I'm agreeing with, more so after the Aziz accusations.
Tunaccat
All meaning what? Just the Aziz incident or everything back to Weinstein?
theyar
I still have some philosophical qualms that go back to the Weinstein thing.
Tunaccat
Where better to talk philosophy than 140 characters or less?
theyar
If you're an adult nobody and trade sex for a movie role, you're not a victim of anything.
Tunaccat
I think you're looking at it too 1-dimensional. They don't come right out and explicitly say "let me fuck you for this role". It's heavily>
YoureUsingButtholeOutOfContext
All the shit since.Basically said that it has gotten to the point where people are losing their jobs because they touched a knee 20 yrs ago.
Tunaccat
I'm like 99.99% sure that's not true.
Ghostshenanigans
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.avclub.com/liam-neeson-says-the-metoo-campaign-is-healthy-but-a-1822075507/amp
Tunaccat
I guess I don't disagree, but his comments about this and the wage gap are really weird.
Ghostshenanigans
I agree with you.
Ghostshenanigans
I think he meant things like Aziz' s case. Everyone agrees that Weinstein is a tool and needs to be put down.
Tunaccat
I wouldn't disagree from what little I've heard, but I think we should be super careful not to jump to either extreme, uk?
Ghostshenanigans
I agree, I do my best to stay in the middle of things like this.
Tunaccat
Yeah, same. Not everyone should be hanged for an accusation, but also if you have like 10+ people accuse you, you maybe did something shitty
WalterSobchaksWorldOfPain
All these Aziz Ansari posts
AVoiceOfReason
Fuck that. I care. His career is on the line and he is getting the support of social media, media, and Hollywood. Which is what he deserves.
SystemZombie
You will if this becomes a trend and it happens to you
imonewiththeforceandtheforceiswithme
That, my friend, is called "paranoia" and a sign of a few different mental instabilities...
Jomini001
It's not paranoia if they really ARE after you.
YCMEHSFI
Been trending for like the last 3/4 months. And why would any guy care? Victim said Aziz apologized the next day and she does this. Fuck her
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
Its a story about this time when nothing happened.
Jomini001
Seems like most of these #metoo stories are either that or completely hearsay.
CourtesyClerk
Or hands up don't shoot
Thekingofbeans
Well the story is the false accusation, which is a pretty big deal and definitely happened.
RyG22
Aziz is at fault for being pushy, that’s all. No need to destroy his career or even make what he did public. Focus on Weinstein and the rest
LollieCom
He was persistent. He probably thought the 2 bjs were signals he was getting close. Close means keep trying.
goodguyC
I hear what you're saying. I also thought, "quit going down on him if you feel so uncomfortable".
FNHuskys
And even the pushy part has to be up for debate.
goodguyC
On the other hand, guys can be more dismissive of bad behavior when it's super obvious (i.e. jacking off in front of women who work for you)
goodguyC
But it's hard when you see what happened in a consensual sexual encounter, and how 'normalized' male behavior makes women uncomfortable.
cleetdog101
If I can eat Box & get my dick sucked - no reason to NOT push for pussy. Unless the owner of said pussy is INSANE IN THE BRAIN.
ButtFumbles
He couldn't push a fucking wheel barrow. Wtf. Like was that girl like 5 lbs to not be able to "resist" him? Come on, America?!
RyG22
Strength isn’t even an issue. She gave “non verbal cues”. A lot of men & women wouldn’t even pick up on that. You need to be clear, verbally
Snooj
Yeah, I certainly have never picked up on any nonverbal cues from women who were interested in me. Definitely won't interpret the opposite.
rabbiebabbie
Aziz should come out as autistic and claim he can't read nonverbal cues. Maybe it'll deflect the hate like coming out as gay does usually
HighlandPotatoe
Yeah.... My husband is useless at noticing non verbal cues. Key is verbal communication.
JanaJustinsdottir
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355 she did give clear, verbal communication apparently
JanaJustinsdottir
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355 the article said she gave verbal AND non-verbal cues. Let s not misquote ppl for an agenda
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
I don't think it was to destroy anything, I think it was a good example of how men and women differ in experiences of consent.
ImmortanJimBob
Yep, that's totally why this is a story in the national media... how men and women differ in their experiences of consent. Or not.
DrDoALittleMoreThanBareMinimum
If you kick a ball its gonna roll until the person stops it. people arent telepathic, oral sex leads to sex if it shouldnt SAY no, she didnt
THRAWN18
If you let someone go down on you, don't be surprised if they ask for more. Or vice versa, you go down on them.
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
That doesn't entitle anyone to anything other than what you agreed to at first.
THRAWN18
Agreed. However sometimes when you start with something, it keeps going. You should always ask. So it wasn't like he just jammed it in
SomethingSomethingTraLaLa
He did that dude thing where he plays around with it and you unless you say no. She didn't explicitly say yes is the problem.
THRAWN18
Guy goes down on girl, girl may decide she wants more. Guy wants more because we're men. Guy asks. He asked. Maybe too much though
JanaJustinsdottir
Why can t she make it public? How does telling a story about someone being creepy wrong?
johnfsfrank
She can, but defamation of character comes to mind, particularly if she's lied about anything. No real way to verify the facts though. 1/2
johnfsfrank
Personally, it sounds like she gave mixed signals. Making it public exposed her own incompetence in helping create an awkward situation. 2/2
RedgarRedbeard
it's more about the context of the release; right now many celebrity men are being exposed to have sexually assaulted others. equating
RedgarRedbeard
being creepy with sexual assault is wrong because it undermines the stories of victims of assault, making it harder to bring justice to the
RedgarRedbeard
scumbags who abuse their power. by making her story public now, this woman is trying to equate her experience with those who were assaulted
JanaJustinsdottir
1. Who says she s saying it s equivalent? Bc she was very clear that she s not. 2. Who says it s not a spectrum of behaviour?
AVoiceOfReason
It's not wrong, but no one gives a fuck. If I started rambling about a bad date I had to everyone, they'd also not give a fuck.
LivelyNightShade
what makes you think this will destroy his career? i am so sick of people saying that.
RyG22
Once you get accused of this kind of thing it sticks, especially in the current climate. I don’t think it will ‘destroy’ his career but 1/2
RyG22
there are people calling for him to looked into etc. He shouldn’t be distanced from like Weinstein, CK and others. 2/2
b1ggulpshuh
Funny...putting CK next to Weinstein is a huge mistake...CK never forced himself on ppl. Ya, he's a perv, but not a predator like HW.
RyG22
Yeah agree he’s not a predator but he exposed himself to women who didn’t want it - he’s in a below tier just not as serious
RyG22
*should be
flapperfemmefatale
But why isn't being pushy worth criticizing? Some people are just so desperate that they don't care about who or what they're trying to 1
flapperfemmefatale
2 fuck. The standard should be enthusiastic consent, and people need to stop seeing hesitation as a challenge or a game.
b1ggulpshuh
This isn't about "ideal behavior." This is about grounds for libel, ruining someone's reputation, or causing legal action bc of regret
flapperfemmefatale
I disagree.
Macish
In a world where enthusiastic consent would have women labelled as sluts, and playing hard to get is seen as a viable dating strategy? /1
Macish
Men being more forward or pushy is a result of the society we live in. It needs to change.
flapperfemmefatale
Agreed. But that doesn't excuse the behavior of those who seem fine in perpetuating it.
belthasarthegreat
Try to clearly define that in legal terms
flapperfemmefatale
Why does it need to be a legal issue? Last I checked, no charges have been brought against Ansari. And I have standards for appropriate 1
flapperfemmefatale
2 sexual conduct beyond what is and isn't legal. If you're so desperate to fuck that you don't even care to find out whether your partner
joethebro
See I disagree. There's a difference between being pushy and being forceful. That's the point of conflict here. Being pushy is more asking 2
flapperfemmefatale
In either case, you're not respecting your potential partner's wishes. If all you care about is whether you're breaking the law, then 1
flapperfemmefatale
2 you lack empathy and don't care about how your behavior can damage someone else. And for what? Just to get laid?
joethebro
A couple of times or trying your luck multiple times. If you know the Tea metaphor, it's like he made hee a cup of tea and he asks 2/?
joethebro
(Tea*) multiple times if she would like to until she eventually agrees and drink it. Like a salesman trying to sell you something.
GDSTEVE
From what I read about Weinstein he just slept with prostitutes who sold their ass for parts in movies. Seems like they traded sex for fame.
Blkmagik12
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
How about this - you personally are going to get fired if you don't sleep with someone. See how it works?
GDSTEVE
Let's see if that actually happened, or if it was just an unfilmed version of casting couch.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
You realize casting couch was (and is) an actual thing, right? Like often to get roles you had to have sex with someone. Just bc it's 1/
GDSTEVE
If I were offered a job in exchange for sex, I would look for another job. They sold their body for fame; that is prostitution. He's a John.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
/2 acting doesn't make it different than any other job.
GDSTEVE
Now, if he outright raped someone, I hope he goes to prison. But, if he just bought sex, then both he and the woman should be fined/jailed.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Right. It sounds to me like what Aziz did was wrong, but only just barely. The onus should be on both parties to make sure they understand 1
meskarune
The onus is not on both parties the onus is on the initiator of sexual contact.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Yeah, but one person might initiate and the other might decide to escalate, so that’s kinda what I meant by both.
meskarune
Right, but it's always the person who is taking the initiative that must make sure what they are doing is consensual.
meskarune
They should do this for every new activity. So kissing someone doesn't mean you can fuck them without making sure its ok first.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
whether or not the other person is OK with what's happening, and to make sure they're ok with it escalating. It seems like he didn't do 2
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
that well enough. But that's very different from being guilty of sexual misconduct. We need to find a way to have a consequence for 3
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
actions like his that is proportionate with what he actually did. I have no idea what that might look like, but I do know that currently 4
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
even if he doesn't end up in court, he's already faced consequences greater than his misdeeds. I also know this: if I was a celebrity 5
hibsta
If you can get in trouble for that, anybody that has ever gone on a date and wanted something at the end, would be in trouble
0956
I read someone say that this was exactly the case and that every woman has been sexually assaulted in this manner.
RyG22
Agree. Difference between forcibly pushing yourself onto someone & being a horny jerk. She had a bad date but was consensual in giving oral
usersubbordercontrol
Which, let's be honest, that's about 90% of the dates out there
Somanyquestions
You can go on a date and want something and not be pushy. Wouldn't it be a good idea to reduce the overall amount of pushyness.
JanaJustinsdottir
You can want something without being a pushy creep though, just saying
flapperfemmefatale
Nah, only if you try to coerce your date into sex. I do think plenty of people do that, though, and they're fucked in the head
RedIronCrown
Coerce or persuade? Coercion involves a threat of some kind (not necessarily physical).
flapperfemmefatale
Either one works for me. Why would you want to have to persuade someone into being intimate with you?
RedIronCrown
Because the chase and playing hard to get are both entertaining.
StrangePoster
Isn't that what dating is? A persuasion act and gauge of interest between one or both parties?
mydailydoseofantidepressantsisyourbooty
Uh, me and my SO had/have to persuade each other We're busy people that tunnel vision into our work. (1)
AeonQuasars
Can the metoo movement only be on rape and sexually assault and not on witchburning?
everthustodeadbeats
It is. Its the predators and their defenders who call it a witch hunt.
jpparkenbone
You know, except for when it's not, like this post.
minuteye
Trying to reform our society's very fucked up understanding of consent without talking about common boundary-pushing behaviour will fail.
b1ggulpshuh
But the phrase metoo implicitly sets many of these accounts on the same level...and associates someone like AA with HW, a true predator
Thekingofbeans
The nature of movements is for people to get carried away. This is unavoidable. All you can do is fight to keep them in the minority.
NotTodayNotYesterday
That'd be the case if anyone was actually getting burned. People are still making their money.
Chaimgoldbergenstein
No, because the metoo movement is in itself built on accusing without necessarily providing evidence. With the exception of Weinstein, the-
everthustodeadbeats
That's just a lazy argument because these things are inherently hard or impossible to prove.
Chaimgoldbergenstein
-only reason any men have been proven sexual predators were self admittances, such as with Louis C.K. Otherwise it's all he said she said.
Mdp2525
You have NOT been paying attention. There has been evidence in many cases and suppression of initial complaints
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
It does go against the Western standard of justice, but there's really no way to prove that career-based sexual exploitation occurred 1/
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
2/ It's not like rape in that there is physical evidence. But when enough people come forward (i.e. Weinstein) with no perceivable /2
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
3/ benefit for doing so, you sort of have to take it as solid evidence, despite the fact that's not how our justice system should work.
HighFunctioningAlcoholic
4/ Further, he's not going to jail for the vast majority of instances that allegedly occurred by they weren't crimes,he's being blacklisted.