Skullwriter
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EDIT: Wow, that was a fast Frontpage! Thank you very much, imgurians! I do some reviews as a hobby, and today I finally checked out 'Goat' the animation! You can see the review here https://youtu.be/UCoedObTaq8
unluckyandbored
Bingo. If you can take the product away from me anytime you want, then I should be allowed to get my money back when you do. I'll even compromise and allow it to be prorated based on how much I used it, with a cap on how low it can go.
gndgndgbd
AnonsAndMinions
God can you fucking imagine if we had those kinds of rights? Holy fuck that'd be amazing. While I'd feel bad at some points, there's other points where it'd make a really fucking firm statement real quick and get these shithead corpos to actually listen to their customer base.
OneMoreLime
If I give you the money, you give me the game?
No own only pay!
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CallMeCourierSix
Are you really this dumb? SERIOUSLY? That you equate a worn-out product with a fully functional piece of software that was taken from you without your consent and without compensation?
How about I show up at your house, tell you your phone doesn't belong to you, and take it from you. Does that sound good? Cause that's what they're doing.
Unless you have the brain to comprehend the conversation, shut the fuck up.
ReusableBastard
You will own nothing and be happy.
Tardis1217
You can own every book, movie, TV show, and nearly every video game. It's all free on the internet if you know where to look. And I'd much rather wade through a mountain of better quality old stuff than overpay or be findommed over just about any of the new slop. I don't have a problem with FOMO.
Toqom
Like if you have say flood insurance, never use it, and then they decide to cancel your coverage, they should have to give back every dollar you paid to them.
SirYumYum
If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.
Sechran
Oh no, see, I'm not 𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 you my money - I'm giving you a temporary, non-transferable, non-negotiable contract controlled 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 for my money, the terms of which I can change at any time for any reason, and which I can revoke according to my exclusive, non-limited discretion.
nihiltres
That kinda sounds like a credit card company.
tzahtman
Also you now owe Disney your life rights and Nestle all the water in your body.
burningeagle
Oh and by reading this you agree to opt into arbitration, no there is no legislation that says what i’m doing is legal but no court will hear your appeal anyway.
StrokeFlavoured
Tell it to the high seas, where I will get my copy, when you revoke my access.
Comet260
🏴☠️🦜🏴☠️🦜🏴☠️🦜🏴☠️🦜🏴☠️🦜
killerswiller
jethroismaxbaer5772
This is pretty true for anything purchased with a card anymore. They can immediately take the money out of your account. Need a refund? 3-5 business days... maybe.
ElvenTroll1121
There should also be an easy way for me to refuse updates on steam.
VodkaReindeer
If you buy a device and it stops working after years of you using it, they don't have to refund the full amount to you. Why should software be different?
aShogunNamedMarcus
Curious to see how the class action suit against Google for bricking remote control functionality in the Nest Gen 1 & Gen 2 thermostats plays out. Hell I'm still salty at them killing my still working Dropcam that I paid $150 for back in the day (granted, that was replaced with a higher res Wyze cam for $20)
causality
Shoulda known after they fucked all their Revolv smart home customers.
Tardis1217
Did you know that there are about a million games you can run on emulators (most of which run on any modern phone) that will never ask you for microtransactions or to pay a subscription to a "live service" and won't be patched, removed, or altered by the developer?
The problem isn't that you don't have games to play. The problem is that you're letting your FOMO win and letting the AAA game publishers findom you. Stop buying their crap and play some classics instead. Or at least buy only indie.
circlebreaker
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ADMNtek
JanglesPrime
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The11thPlague
Remember to strip the tracking bits when sharing a URL. The & and what comes after are usually unnecessary. Here's a clean link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXcogLmxnJw
WeatherWiz
I was always curious what the legality of a business or company saying a product/service is “non refundable”
BerryButcher
legality is simple - you agree to their terms and as long as those terms do not violate any set laws they get away with it
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Depends on the country. In Germany you can return any physical online purchase for a refund within 14 days, except for food & medications. Software is trickier. You can only return unopened/still-wrapped storage mediums. In case of a digital download, starting the download counts as unwrapping. But! If a product is defect, you can demand a refund or a replacement/repair/patch for a whole 2 years.So if a forced update breaks a game or the provider shuts off the server your chances are pretty good
SubTrout
One of the reasons I refuse to buy "smart" anything if given an alternative. Gee I would love if my thermostat required a monthly subscription and/or bricks itself if the company goes under or just decides to stop supporting it.
DarkZalgo
What smart thermostat requires a monthly subscription? A lot of these complaints I see all the time about smart products don't seem to actually reflect real smart products made by reputable companies. And you think your 20 year old thermostat is "supported" by the company that made it? I sure as fuck know the one that came with my house isn't. It's a piece of shit, the only reason I haven't replaced it is because it'd be a pain to wire up the power to a new one.
Sanivia
"smart" is for stupid people.
DarkZalgo
It's for people who like convenience/accessibility and to a lesser degree also understand how it works.
ydwyrd
Hey, that's my parents you're calling stupid! You're correct though, they are stupid. Insisting I get a voice-controlled smart-bulb for a lamp that is almost always within arm's reach of me, so it takes longer to turn on AND I don't get to use the lamp if the wifi goes out.
DarkZalgo
Mine works just fine when the Wi-Fi goes out, dunno what's wrong with yours. Also, why is your local Wi-Fi going out at all? You should always be able to connect to it even if it can't connect outside to the Internet.
ydwyrd
How should I know? I didn't set it up and I avoid using it as much as possible.
DarkZalgo
So you hate it because you don't know anything about it and refuse to learn?
MightyIink
We've gotten so deep into this "games as a service" model before any consumer protections have been put in place, every game requires an account or has drm now so you're not really buying what you're buying, you're renting it.
NotAGarbageCant
Yeahhhh, I don't buy those games. That's how you stop them. Don't buy their shit
YouRadicalizedMe
Drm. Denouvo has been cracked!
MightyIink
It usually is, but it still screws over the paying customer.
CarlSaganRulez
GoodOldGames, I try to buy there whenever I can.
BlueSunBlueSun
They have their own issues with DRM… not that they acknowledge it but check out the forums.
They aren’t perfect but they are a “better” alternative to other stores… mostly
Zalm
GoG is good, and has alot of older stuff, which is awesome, but alot of new games dont appear on GoG, which makes it hard to buy some of the new stuff I want to play. Its why using a few different store fronts isnt a bad idea. GoG for all my old stuff, like the Heroes of Might and Magic franchise, but GoG doesnt exactly have newer stuff like Dragon Dogma 2, Helldivers 2, Crimson Desert, or the new FF7 remake games.
Muffyns
Dragon dogma 2 is a bad remake ofn1 the only thing cool is the combat but it has even less enemies and vocations. Get it when its $20 or under its also abandonware as far as im aware as the last update added easy mode and the devs peaced put to make resident evil 9 and monster hunter
Zalm
I still enjoyed it, lol. And i did get it on sale for like $30. but thats besides the point, I cant get it on GoG. I would, but I cant
HappyTimeHollis
Here's the thing though, you always were only renting it.
The developers always controlled ownership of the game, you were just buying a key to allow you to borrow usage from them.
NotSomoneElse68
I used to buy a cartridge and put it in. I have 8 bit floppys I can still boot up today. You could share Windows keys up until Win 2000
HappyTimeHollis
Yes, but you never owned the games themselves - not the IP or the code - you owned a license and a delivery mechanism. That was it. The exact same as what you own today.
Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?
NotSomoneElse68
Because those are not the same thing at all. I don't own the intellectual property, but the cartridge was irrevocably mine and I could sell it if I wanted to. Atari couldn't flip a switch are headquarters and make it stop working. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?
HappyTimeHollis
So, legally you could only re-sell the cartridge if you were able to ensure that they never used it to play the software. It was in the EULA - contained in the software itself or the manual - that the license you purchased was "non-transferable".
Could they flip a switch and turn it off? No, not within the technology of the time. But they could - if they had chosen to - go after you legally for breach of EULA by re-selling it.
randomdragon
You're either a literal child who was born after physical media for games stopped being longer prevalent, a corporate shill, or a moron. Either way, get off imgur and go touch grass, dipshit.
JohnSatclaire
That's not how first sale doctrine works, kiddo.
StrokeFlavoured
"Looks at his hard copy disks and video game cassettes" Huh.
HappyTimeHollis
Yep, that's what those disks and cassettes were. Just a storage medium. You might own the storage medium and a limited license, but you never own the data itself.
JohnSatclaire
But you do own that sold copy of the data.
HappyTimeHollis
No, you have only ever owned a license to use it within certain non-commercial parameters.
LoquaciousDude
Yea when I buy a car that dont mean I own the concept of a car either, but I do damn well own the arrangement of molecules that make up that car. Yes, I own the data, cus I bought it. Its my copy of the data that I bought. No, I dont care that "but thats what the contract says", the market has advanced quicker than regulation has, but that is changing.
StrokeFlavoured
A technicality, which will never bother the consumer. I don't see Shigeru Miyamoto coming to my home and shutting off my copy of Super Mario Bros.
...
Okay, I will not edit my comment. Maybe Nintendo is not the best example, but I hope you get my point.
Zalm
lol, I was about to say, "Nintendo would 100% come and shut off and confiscate your older stuff that you thought you owned if they wanted to bother with it."
williamshakesbeer
Bursts through the door. "Hey!! This is the Rare Microsoft police, we've come to confiscate your 27 year old copy of Banjo Kazooie!!"
DisUsernameAmsDildos
You sound very young.
HappyTimeHollis
And you sound like someone with Dunning-Kruger.
I'm 43.I remember the original lawsuits over video game piracy in the 90s. It's the same arguments that happened over music and movies on physical media.
You only owned a limited license to those as well. For instance, you weren't allowed to buy a dvd or cd and play it in your venue. Sure, some people did do that, and a percentage got sent c&d letters or sued over it.
CaptainScarfish
It's bootlickers like you that keep 1337x and TPB in business. Maybe one day you'll figure out the difference between "legal" and "ethical".
HappyTimeHollis
You realise we're not having a discussion about the ethics side of it at the moment, right? We're discussing the legal side.
It's important to be able to have those discussions separately.
forelle
My father once made an absolute pro-gamer move when he just crossed out a few words in a car rental contract he signed. Then a damage happened (due to the shitty maintenance of the car) and they wanted to have him on the hook for it. They said: "Let's read what you signed!" and he was "yeah why not?". They then went "Hey you can't do that!" and he said "But I did and that is the contract we both agreed to". The thing is they expect you to read the contract, but won't do it themselves.
TeddyBruhsvelt
Very surprised your father got away with this because he didn't notify them of the change before settling the contract. Meaning the part he changed would not be binding on the other party who hadn't been informed of the change and as such never agreed to it. You don't even need legal knowledge to know that, it's just common sense. Otherwise you could just get someone to sign something and then change the entire text to whatever you wanted and try to be like "but they agreed to it"
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
I'm sure it depends on the cost. If a manager realized that the cost to fix the car (or whatever the damage was) was less than what he'd have to pay a lawyer to work the issue, he might have gotten away with it.
forelle
I can't remember the whole thing exactly, I was maybe 12 at the time and that was boring adult stuff at the time. I think he did something among the lines of telling them that he wants them to read it so they both agree to the same thing and they declined or something.
JesaraB
And that is why every company wants digital contracts now because they are contracts of adhesion and need to stop being treated as "contracts" in the same manner.
forelle
Yeah and sometimes even that is too much. I have a Samsung phone and they wanted me to "accept the new terms and conditions for the Samsung account" with nowhere to actually READ those terms and conditions. So I just ignored that popup and never clicked it and wrote a mail to their customer support if this is how they think they can treat their customers. Then a few days later the popup went away without me clicking it? I still don't know what happened there.
Zalm
I mean, legally speaking they do have to offer a way to view the new terms and conditions, but they dont have to make it readily available up front, that I am aware of. So they could like...have a link to click to go read them, or something. And said link could be pretty well hidden.
Jarjarthejedi
I've had a popup to accept Samsung's terms and agreements pop up intermittently for literal years now. Just swipe it away and move on whenever it raises its head.
JesaraB
I have been swiping that popup away for months
3nergy
Uh...have purchases ever been rescinded???
CallMeCourierSix
Sony did it with movies and TV shows. Nintendo did it. Microsoft did it. Disney did it.
There's a ton of examples. Maybe get your head out of your ass and actually look something up.
Jarjarthejedi
Yeah, dozens of times. Books ( tps://www.npr.org/2009/07/24/106989048/amazons-1984-deletion-from-kindle-examined">https://www.npr.org/2009/07/24/106989048/amazons-1984-deletion-from-kindle-examined ), Movies ( https://nofilmsc">rner-b">r.org/2009/07/24/106989048/amazons-1984-deletion-from-kindle-examined ), Movies ( https://nofilmschool.com/warner-bros-deleting-purchased-digital-content ), and especially Games ( https://www.engadget.com/ubisoft-is-deleting-the-crew-from-players-libraries-reminding-us-we-own-nothing-165328083.html , https://tribune.com.pk/story/2554731/ubisofts-new-eula-requires-gamers-to-destroy-all-copies-of-outdated-games )
CurbYourClassWar
A bunch of them stop working if the company shuts down multiplayer service, even though it should be playable single player or local. Same if the company shuts down, bye bye game. Lots of cases where it would surprise you.
Zalm
I mean, if its an online based game, it makes sense, its the single player games that require online that doesnt make sense. If I remember correctly, the biggest recent fiasco was The Crew, which as far as I have been told, is an online game they shut down. Like...they could have taken time and money to rework the game to work solo, single player, offline, but on a game thats over a decade old, no one was willing to pay for that to be the case, so they just shut it down.
CurbYourClassWar
No, not really and that’s why I said LOCAL multiplayer. Remember when that was the norm? When you could run your own lobby and play LAN? That’s what they quietly removed and specifically make it so you HAVE to use THEIR servers and then they can use it as an excuse to shut it down once they’ve extracted enough $$$ from players. They don’t want you to ever own what gou purchase. There’s absolutely no reason it can’t be changed to play locally. And I’m tired of non-programmers making excuses.
Zalm
I mean, for some games, yes, but not for every game. Games that are designed around that kind of play, you can still do private lan parties with 6 computers creating a sauna. But some games just dont work that way. They arent hosted in lobbies like the other ones. They are persistently online. Stuff like MMOs. Like Destiny, and The Crew. Where you dont log into a lobby, but directly into the game world, and randomly meet others who are also on the game world. Cant lan party that type of game.
CurbYourClassWar
Still not a difficult change to make it connect to an automatically hosted local copy of the server. Like the examples you provided, that would be a fairly simple update. And that’s what this is all about. Especially games with some sort of single player aspect. Connecting online shouldn’t be a hard requirement to still play the game you spent money on. That’s the whole point. We need consumer rights.
JesaraB
That is what happens any time you get banned from a game you own, a game shuts down your access, and several other means.
HappyTimeHollis
Which is fair enough, tbh. Banning (99% of the time) only happens when you break the ToS by cheating or harassing other players.
JesaraB
In theory at least. But especially as they are adding AI into their anti-cheat systems and such, false positives are going to become commonplace, people get banned for their legal names (the scunthorpe problem) and so on.
HappyTimeHollis
And that is a very fair criticism. But the problem there is the use of AI though. Not banking people for breaking the rules.
JesaraB
AI is just accelerating the problem, the problem existed before it