yep, no rules, which is why I hope the next president is a democrat and goes JUST AS HARD but the other way, like get rid of the entire Supreme Court, what? against the rules? screw it, do it anyway, literally seize assets from the super wealthy, screw it, just DO it etc etc.
He's right. The US has completely degenerated politically. It's not impossible there'll be another Democrat president, but it doesn't matter. They have neither the interest nor capacity to deeply reform the system, to clean out the corruption, the religious delusions, and the nationalist brain rot. And without that, the next Trump will always be just one election away.
No one can plan for that, so now everyone is planning to continue without the US.
I'll say it again for those in the cheap seats, Citizens United was singlehandedly, the worst, most destructive ruling ever, for the USA. Our only hope for ANY return to stabile, sane politics, is its repeal, and banishment to the dust bin of shit ideas that never should have happened.
I don't disagree with you, but feel the need to point out that with or without that decision, it wouldn't matter if people weren't so god damned stupid.
No amount of Fox News and xhittter memes can convince you that a New York billionaire is a champion of the working class if you're not already thick as pig shit.
We never had "stable, sane politics". We just were better at hiding how corrupt the system was. This country has throughout its existence been a force of Imperialist oppression across the globe in the service of capitalist pigs.
What came before is what led us to today. We don't want to return to it as it only kicks the can down the road. We need a full overhaul of this entire nation.
It started as soon as the US was on the winning side with OP: Paperclip trying to procure scientific advantages. Even in medical science through Unit 731 "the log camp" US white washed systemic horrific human experiments that Japan committed, by promising not to tell tje world if they got all the data. Not to mention all the spying of so-called allies for US' own corporations and military. The US is by far the most corrupt and untrustworthy ally.
When I learned about checks and balances in middle school, I asked the teacher if it was possible for corruption to happen. They explained you would need a lot of people to go along with it but the chances of that were impossible because of how great our system works. I hope he remembers that conversation and realized he was so wrong
As a European I figured in 2016 that Trump wouldn't get anything done, because everybody would push back or passive aggressively slow down the government and military so much, he'd be completely ineffective. Turns out Americans would happily declare allegiance to such a rotten human, and that those that wouldn't, just stood back and let it happen.
There are checks, but most of them are being ignored. Not all of them though, that's why much of What Trump has tried to do has been blocked and they have had to come up with a new way to do things. The issue is, most of that is for the domestic policies, most of the checks for international actions are part of what is being ignored.
I've been saying for...ahh fuck.I just realised it's nearly 20 years. Anyhow, I've been saying for a long time that the US has too much entanglement in Europe and many other countries. It might not be direct political power, but it's a lot of money moving through the US. Trump has proven that the US is an unreliable ally and far too many systems depend on the US for stability. Too much was given away at the end of WW2 which allowed the US to set itself up to be in that position.
It’s not so much that so much has been given away; it’s more that while Europe was largely devastated by the war, the US was largely untouched. The engines of of industry just kept trucking on with intact infrastructure. Europe couldn’t say the same. They needed clean up the rubble and start again (so to speak). So, naturally, Europe welcomed US “largesse” to help with recovery.
Not saying in any way shape or form that US was purely altruistic in their help.
Yea, I say given, but it's more 'reparations and to pay lend/lease contracts'. The US$ was also used aggressively which is why it's used for world trade.
Because they do so alone; if they organized with their communities in the tried and true anarchist fashion of old, we would have the strength and support to throw off the boot.
We just chuckled at George W. , he was kinda fun. Shoe-throwing incident was fun. After him, we thought you would be cured of your bullshit, because you elected Obama. We then got our hopes up, that you would elect a female president. Did not happen. All downhill from there.
I do remember him trying to give the female German chancellor a shoulder rub out of nowhere. The creep levels in the White House started sooner than we think!
Putin , knowing very well she was afraid of dogs, had two dogs in his office during a meeting. They were just there to mess with her. I don't envy her job.
Looking at your comment history, I'm guessing this was meant to be sarcastic, but you forgot to include the /s at the end. With that assumption in mind, I will neither downvote nor upvote you. For the future, always mark them. As long as Mars and his ilk are around, there will be people that say that shit unironically.
In the main, Obama was pretty good, but he fucked up big time over a few of things, one was not recognizing the growing threat of the Orange Returd and Republicunts with their Christian Nazi backers, another was backing off from pushing the ACA harder as the basis of UHC, another was his back down over Crimea. These three things, mainly, tainted his Presidency. Okay, no-one gets it all right, but these things have allowed the fascists the propaganda they wanted to take over. And they are!
That's like when the villain claims that their victims' deaths are on the hero's hands, because he didn't do enough to stop them. There are arguments made for both sides of that coin that make a lot of sense, but ultimately, the actions of the villain are their own. We could blame Obama, Hillary, the DNC, or whatever, but ultimately, it's the conservatives that vote for the fascists and the actions taken by those fascists that are to blame.
Obama wasn't perfect, the good he did was certainly not outweighed by the not so good, but with his understanding of history, and law and the world around him, he could/should maybe, have been a lot more proactive in the areas mentioned.
I dunno, he is kinda right. Obama was pathetically centrist and corporate. He didn't do anything to address the fundamental issues that eventually drove people to Trump. If even 10% more people felt Democrats were the party of change and rejecting a system the breeds debt and poverty, then maybe Trump would have been defeated by Clinton. Then Biden governed from the center too, and repeated the error. Though the real common denominator is Trump voters ignorance.
The irony to me is that Obama, the living definition of a moderate centrist, was painted as a communist by right wing propaganda and TENS OF MILLIONS believed that in their bones.
Yes he's right. Trust is gone for 50+ years. Every deal now with the US on Space, IT, weapons are considered only for interim use while Europe can start up own production. The old idea was that we wouldn't compete on everything because USA was a reliable supplier since the end of WWII (not before) and US troops stationed in Europe protected that market. Europe has already launched programs to close those capability gaps and will compete globally with things like alternatives to Patriot missile.
I kept saying this, in a way, we're all very lucky he is an absolute moron. Get someone smart and malicious and it is absolutely game over. Also, those outside relationships will not be mended easily and without a complete reform...
Oooooo I like that one “America is a hotel room and Trump is a blacklight exposing the jizz”. Right up there with what Brad Pitt said in Killing Them Softly “America is not a country, it’s just a business”
A lot of people in these comments with selective hearing. Trump revealed the pre-existing fuckery, not of the Republican party but of the entire government. This isn't a partisan issue, nor a recent one. IE the Democrats are fucking us too. Biden? Fucked us. Clinton? Fucked us. Obama? Really fucked us despite the revisionist history around him.
As a European, I’d nuance this. Yes, Trump exposes what many predecessors did more diplomatically, by dropping the gloves and using populist bluntness. A Commission defence official even told me Trump might be a great opportunity for Europe. But I don’t think this will destroy US-European trust: Europeans aren’t angels, we forget quickly, and we keep using harmful things when there’s no choice or it’s convenient, like smokers or people who know GAFAM tracks them but still use them.
People are underestimating how much politicians in Europe want to get back to how it was before trump. Even if it is out of sheer convenience, like with the defense deals. Case in point: when biden got elected not everything was hankidory but good enough for business as usual. The general situation will be worse, if Americans will be able to remove trump somehow, but the craving for unity is still strong. The only one's who will likely go weakened out of this is the USA.
I lost the last shred of trust in America as an ally when Snowden revealed that the US conducted global industrial espionage with the help of the NSA and the rest of its military intelligence apparatus. E.g., on German companies that compete with American firms. Ever wonder why the US is such an innovative power house? This is why. The NSA scandal happened under Obama's watch, but of course it's been going on since long before him. Even with Obama at the helm, the US was the opposite of an ally.
you're telling me a government spied on another government? I hereby resign from participating in government! Think about what you're talking about. This is not even remotely an American thing, it's a human thing. America's is just a large example amount hundred ls of countries doing exactly the same thing. Money is powerful, information is controlling.
This close entanglement between government and private sector is known as fascism. You're essentially saying "I have trouble imagining that any nation capable of devolving into a fascist shithole isn't already a fascist shithole" in order to excuse the fact that the US is clearly a fascist shithole that bombs & invades countries and topples their governments over private oil interests & corporate profit. (It really isn't the only fascist shithole in the "free world",but that's just whataboutism)
The US used information gained via echelon to give Boeing inside information to beat Airbus in negotiations for selling planes to European operators in the 1980s/90s.
Even back in the day Marshall Aid was a vehicle of US influence. It was never out of their good hearts. Finland never accepted that, because it was obvious that US would get their grubby little mittens in the receiving country's pie. Also we had to balance carefully with USSR being next door and invasion being a real danger (they tried softer and harder means until the 80s, luckily we had Kekkonen who could charm Soviet rulers and helped us integrate with the West).
So, not saying that you're wrong to distrust the United States for spying on its allies, but you are aware that many Western countries do the same, right? Heck, France is a bigger player in corporate espionage on Germany than the United States is.
LOL, where you from mate? Talking a lot of shit for a human being living on earth... Where does naivety like yours reside? Which place are you throwing stones from? Surely the society that made you has no skeletons for us to dance with...
"Helping" by allowing the US military and NSA to build their espionage crap on our soil. You know who owns and operates ECHELON? Germany gets no say in what is being done with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON In case you've forgotten, we're still an occupied nation. We don't even get a say if we want nuclear arms in our country. In 2009, we begged the US to remove them and were told "Haha, nope. That Prague speech was just hot air. Fuck the NPT". And Merkel said "Yes Sir Mr. President".
I'm from Europe and agree with the sentiment. HOWEVER... I sometimes get vertigo from being way up on a high horse. There may be huge differences between different parts of the USA. Just like in Europe there are plenty regions/countries where human rights are secondary to power and greed. And even in the most free and democratic countries it seems with each elections we still move in the same direction as the USA. Let's see if we as Europeans will raise up if needed.
He's right. This is why I say US has permanently destroyed it's credibility. Not only did they let the tree of liberty die, they cut it down and built a throne to tyrants out of it.
Yep. The revolution was about keeping slavery and the oligarchs not wanting to pay any tax. Freedom and liberty were the original lies to get the working class to fight for them.
I still see more than enough people on here and otherwise on the internet and real life that just keep spouting the ''Trump and Maga ruined what America stands for!!'' bullshit.
America never was what it did pretend to be. It started out as a genocidal slave colony and went on from there. The only truly amazing was the amount of Propaganda that brainwashed billions of people. Apparently more so their own people
Yup. 100%. Trump is just the festering wound that sprouted out of the cancerous tumor. We can happily hate him, but really, he is just what America produces. Until they can fix that, they will always be a Country full of child raping nazi clowns. Just now, we can all see it clear as day. We all know it. Hey 'merica, u great yet? We can see you, can you see yourselves?
it's been a shit system for decades. but it's been built around the idea that "only the rich get to be in charge" and putting huge amounts of money barriers in the way of getting into politics. well, cheeto was rich. and he was able to just waddle his way in without anyone stopping him. then nobody knew what to do because there was nothing to stop him. they HAVE to support the system because it's their source of power. even when it's obveously failed in a really bad way.
Yep. A shit system will force people to want change. Unfortunately the change we are getting right now is for the worse. The people who voted the loudest for change were the ones who only wanted to tare everything down, not the ones who wanted to rebuild a better system. People who wanted revenge, not a better life.
This is because corruption is a feedback loop. As corrupt officials gain power, they can disenfranchise those who would stop them, and thus secure more power.
The 'loud' voters are being handed hats and bullhorns. The 'quiet' ones are getting purged from the voter rolls and threatened into compliance by law enforcement with a bigger budget than most other countries' militaries.
A shit system will force people to want change. A *really* shit system will force them to die for it.
Nothing is permanent is this world. Germany certainly must have seemed permanantly destroyed after WWII, but after the denazifying of the country post war, they are a formidable ally across the globe.
Erm, yeah but what happened with Germany is that we levelled all their major cities, killed or drove to suicide all their leaders, occupied and divided the nation, dismantled its military so it could never hurt anyone again, then rebuilt its military and government under our supervision with tens of thousands of our troops still sitting in bases in their country just incase something happened.
This wss also in the era before nuclear weapons, i think if nukes had been a thing we probably 1/
If nukes where available, we would all be speaking german and eating bratwurst now. They where so far ahead in military development we should thank the starts enough superpowers put aside their differences to stop them. Usa only became a military superpower after ww2 because they forgave all the nszi scientists to manufacture weapons for them.
They actually weren't ahead on their nuclear program, largely thanks to the Norwegian resistance.
The only heavy water plant in the third reich was located there and the resistance blew it up. Its also unclear if they had sufficient fissile material as none was ever located after the war, but its possible the Soviets took it.
Germany now isn't just Nazi Germany with new president, the whole government was torn down and they wrote new laws. If US goes through a process like that, I'd be willing to count it as a new country altogether, but until it does, nope.
The denazification didn't really happen naturally or gradually either: it was an active campaign by foreign powers that defeated Hitler's forces and occupied the country. Russia is another country where like the US, their leader is not the problem, but merely a symptom of a deep-rooted cultural rot that has festered for over a century, and that's the sort of thing that is very unlikely to go away without some sort of radical external intervention.
It wasn't only foreign powers. 68ers also questioned their parents - plenty of "former officials" were still in high ranking positions. Allies weeded out the "most involved", but some got overseen, some willingly ignored (see Wernher von Braun - and US space program). But my message here: it not only requires the next gen to challenge the past: it also requires time. 68ers were ~25 years after WW2. Reputation mostly restored? 2000 maybe? How long would it take the US to recover? 30 years? 50?
Angela Merkel said that it was incredible that the change in the USA was from ONE political generation.
Much of Europe has had it's wars, and now realises that the best way to go is via economics/trade. This requires stability - one thing that the USA doesn't do well now. China is the same - wants stability.
Honestly that's a bad look on Merkel. It didn't take a single political generation. This has been brewing since the Citizens United decision and the creation of Fox News as a right-wing propaganda arm.
Other countries usually look at US foreign policy most. US voters tend to look at US domestic policies first. George Bush and Biden are both traditional transatlantic politicans. Both had a heavy focus on EU/NATO and seeked close cooperation (under US leadership; sometimes pressured allies into cooperation). Obama already shifted the US focus more towards asia, where (obvious) upcoming new challenges wait. But obama never questioned the alliance with EU/NATO, either. He wanted a stronger EU as a
partner. A stronger EU also means, that EU would be more independent. So a partnership more on eye level would have been unavoidable consequence of this policy. Europeans - after the bush wars - welcomed this. Trump? Wants to leave NATO, sees EU as his enemy. Cut support for a key war in europe. Forced EU to beg on their knees to be still allowed to purchase US weapons. That's comparable to EU denying weapon deliveries to the US in a US-russia war. Trump also somehow wants that EU spends more on
its military and supports the US military more (see his attempts to turn iran-war into a nato war). But at the same time does he work hard to reduce US-EU ties (see his trade war, see his attacks on EU, his attacks on european politicans, him stopping weapon deliveries, him undermining democracy in EU - and so on.
As a former European now a US Citizen A) This is absolutely true. B) The US is too large and diverse to be considered a single country, the US is 30-50 feral hogs in a trenchcoat.
Honestly wondering why anyone would migrate from Europe to the US tbh. It doesn't sound like a safe/civilized place. Although I suppose it wasn't this crazy a few years ago
Canada here, we call them the trailer park to the south. Noisy, smells bad and rude.
We just apologizing and bringin’ marshmallows and popcorn to watch the dumpster fire burn. We gonna make California the 11th province. Email us when you would like us to invade.
Now? Washington State and Oregon are on the way south and you'd not even need to fight because we'd be too busy learning the rules to Hockey. Its mostly MMA meets figure skating, right? We can get behind that.
We need to be broken up into (I think about 5) separate countries existing in some sort of confederation of member states or like a union of some kind.
Surely this has never been thought of before and can only go well.
I'd have said union of member states, using confederation sounds like what the South wanted all along. Honestly the south should just be turned into a large parking lot, we don't need the racists
What foreign policy? In the US POTUS dictates foreign policy which is carried out by the Department of state. With an idiot like trump in charge foreign policy is enacted by social media posts. That is not foreign policy, it's a tantrum.
Just because it's chaotic 'policy' does not mean it is several (concurrent) policies. With the EU for example a country can say we'll deal with the French and Spanish, but not the rest. Or only the nordics. Or everything except Luxemourg and Poland. Or any combination. With the U.S. there is no generalized option to say "yes Cali, no Texas" or vice versa. You have to micromanage individual company relations and even individual personal purchases.
Is there some other forgein policy in effect? If not, that's it. That's the best the US can do right now, when it comes to ensuring its sovereignty and national interests in the global stage.
And the biggest problem is that it goes well beyond "right now", because unless something fundamental changes about how the US works, Trump has shown clearly that the US can't be trusted to honor any agreements made.
Exactly. What foreign policy? It's up to the whims of a madman and not a single state or territory is actually doing anything to stop it. The entire point of OPs post is that nobody trusts the US because they have no checks and balances. Which means pedp hitler can do whatever the fuck he wants consequence free.
Fuckin' thank you! It is so difficult to hear Europeans talk about how Americans never rise up when they don't understand how decentralized the population is.
By numbers, we rise. By actions, we condemn. By size, it's dismissed.
As an European, don't worry we are turning into the US slowly but surely, the EU is already a big lobby center, the right wing parties are already sabotaging environmental laws and industry gets away with more and more in the name of "competition", Israel is funding more and more political figures. Also the rich are also always complaining of taxes and hiding the money while making much more than their employees
We DO have checks and balances, they're just being ignored by the people who swore to enforce them. This is the result of decades of maneuvering and bad-faith action.
What that actually translates to is we have long since defunct checks and balances. When the checks and balances don't hold up to the very specific roles they were created for, IE, the president, the supreme court, congress, then it doesn't matter if they technically exist, they're functionally worthless, and we've known about this since BEFORE trump, thanks to consistent scotus bullshit that was festering before his efforts.
Until we can create new checks and balances that are NOT ignorable, that hold up to the corruption of the 21st century, then nobody has any reason to take us seriously ever again.
I guess we did, but idk it seems like there were still largely missing gaps that were held up by faith. I mean the supreme court basically rules whatever it wants. So much for "respecting presidence".
There are still some. Not all of them are being ignored. For example the division of Sate power is still holding firm and its getting in the way of Trump being able to do everything he wants. The issue with that, is that only works for domestic actions, international is mostly controlled by the Federal level and a lot of it comes from the Presidential office, and agencies the President has a lot of control over. So internationally Trump has much more freedom.
This ! If your car has headlights that don't work you don't have headlights, no matter how pretty they look. The constitution and the bill of rights are the USA's broken headlights.
Yeah but the thing is they have headlights, they are functional, they just refuse to turn them on. Impeachment is a viable solution but it needs to be used.
It's flourescence, i.e. converting one wave length into another, in this case UV to visible light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence Many body fluids fluoresce because they contain compunds that do so. Examples are sperm and urine (but importantly not blood). https://www.horiba.com/int/scientific/applications/others/pages/detection-of-body-fluids-with-an-alternate-light-source/
I'm more surprised that isn't common knowledge. At least from the outside, that is so blatantly obvious... Like, even starting with the constitution. If you look at it, it's clear it wasn't written for the common person. It was written by and for wealthy traders who needed as little government influence as possible but had no money issues they would ever need to worry about. That's why to this day the US is one of best places for the rich and one of the worst places for the poor.
Culturally, US is known for it's flag waving patriotism. Is so obvious in American screen productions if you live outside the nation and watch stuff from all over the world. The nation, like many is run by lobbyists representing their interests - money buys votes. "I got bullets to sell bro. I got whole factories tooled up to make more bombs and planes and death and destruction, please make more war, and prolong the war, cheers, here's some more money. God bless America."
zonedymo24
yep, no rules, which is why I hope the next president is a democrat and goes JUST AS HARD but the other way, like get rid of the entire Supreme Court, what? against the rules? screw it, do it anyway, literally seize assets from the super wealthy, screw it, just DO it etc etc.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
He's right. The US has completely degenerated politically. It's not impossible there'll be another Democrat president, but it doesn't matter. They have neither the interest nor capacity to deeply reform the system, to clean out the corruption, the religious delusions, and the nationalist brain rot. And without that, the next Trump will always be just one election away.
No one can plan for that, so now everyone is planning to continue without the US.
raphael11863000
I agree with you, especially the fk religion part. Fk Christians in particular.
hohohoooo
SedatedSl0th
Yeah so much for all those guns to use against tyrants. Liars.
MendoncycleSmith
I'll say it again for those in the cheap seats, Citizens United was singlehandedly, the worst, most destructive ruling ever, for the USA. Our only hope for ANY return to stabile, sane politics, is its repeal, and banishment to the dust bin of shit ideas that never should have happened.
Lugh314159
I don't disagree with you, but feel the need to point out that with or without that decision, it wouldn't matter if people weren't so god damned stupid.
No amount of Fox News and xhittter memes can convince you that a New York billionaire is a champion of the working class if you're not already thick as pig shit.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
We never had "stable, sane politics". We just were better at hiding how corrupt the system was. This country has throughout its existence been a force of Imperialist oppression across the globe in the service of capitalist pigs.
What came before is what led us to today. We don't want to return to it as it only kicks the can down the road. We need a full overhaul of this entire nation.
HufflePuffPuff
FoxVoxDK
It started as soon as the US was on the winning side with OP: Paperclip trying to procure scientific advantages. Even in medical science through Unit 731 "the log camp" US white washed systemic horrific human experiments that Japan committed, by promising not to tell tje world if they got all the data. Not to mention all the spying of so-called allies for US' own corporations and military. The US is by far the most corrupt and untrustworthy ally.
Juttypants
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1bWZ2aWl4d3BnYThwYzRqcWJyMTRuZzF0cGk2YWtkMWphNXRwNWRmMiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/7YItDIys6EN7CnnVqD/200w.webp
CaptainCaptObvious
When I learned about checks and balances in middle school, I asked the teacher if it was possible for corruption to happen. They explained you would need a lot of people to go along with it but the chances of that were impossible because of how great our system works. I hope he remembers that conversation and realized he was so wrong
moofunk
As a European I figured in 2016 that Trump wouldn't get anything done, because everybody would push back or passive aggressively slow down the government and military so much, he'd be completely ineffective. Turns out Americans would happily declare allegiance to such a rotten human, and that those that wouldn't, just stood back and let it happen.
theGORTtakethaway
Can we at least get more than 2 parties?? That would be a start...
Targe0
There are checks, but most of them are being ignored.
Not all of them though, that's why much of What Trump has tried to do has been blocked and they have had to come up with a new way to do things.
The issue is, most of that is for the domestic policies, most of the checks for international actions are part of what is being ignored.
Akurei00
Holy shit, those subtitles. "PDF Vietnamese Painter" subbed in for "Pedo Hitler".
villlllle
Viennese.
xo66nt
Viennese*. Said painter was Austrian.
kydn
I've been saying for...ahh fuck.I just realised it's nearly 20 years. Anyhow, I've been saying for a long time that the US has too much entanglement in Europe and many other countries. It might not be direct political power, but it's a lot of money moving through the US. Trump has proven that the US is an unreliable ally and far too many systems depend on the US for stability. Too much was given away at the end of WW2 which allowed the US to set itself up to be in that position.
TheSocialRecluse
It’s not so much that so much has been given away; it’s more that while Europe was largely devastated by the war, the US was largely untouched. The engines of of industry just kept trucking on with intact infrastructure. Europe couldn’t say the same. They needed clean up the rubble and start again (so to speak). So, naturally, Europe welcomed US “largesse” to help with recovery.
Not saying in any way shape or form that US was purely altruistic in their help.
kydn
Yea, I say given, but it's more 'reparations and to pay lend/lease contracts'. The US$ was also used aggressively which is why it's used for world trade.
PoisonHugs
People do stand up but are shutdown, loss Job/Business, sometimes killed because of fascists are allowed to run loose
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Because they do so alone; if they organized with their communities in the tried and true anarchist fashion of old, we would have the strength and support to throw off the boot.
MikaTheFinland
Yes, he is a Finnish comedian. Seen him several times from Finnish TV
swedeonamoose
Remember when Bush jr was the worst thing to happen to trans atlantic relations ?
Ifekinlovesauerkraut
Freedom Fries? Yeah, that gave me a good chuckle.
dghughes
And GW Bush wento Yale and Harvard, was a Airfore pilot, speaks fluent Spanish. He's light years ahead of Trump. But a bonehead for sure.
JRaven419
SedatedSl0th
I so miss precedented times.
hsalonen3000
We just chuckled at George W. , he was kinda fun. Shoe-throwing incident was fun. After him, we thought you would be cured of your bullshit, because you elected Obama. We then got our hopes up, that you would elect a female president. Did not happen. All downhill from there.
InnsmouthTourist
I do remember him trying to give the female German chancellor a shoulder rub out of nowhere. The creep levels in the White House started sooner than we think!

FudgeLicense
• AP sauce: https://youtu.be/i4wKg2Ddoas
hsalonen3000
Putin , knowing very well she was afraid of dogs, had two dogs in his office during a meeting. They were just there to mess with her. I don't envy her job.
hsalonen3000
Sorry, just one big dog. And one big asshole: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/12/europe/putin-merkel-scared-dog
hsalonen3000
And by asshole I mean Putin, the dog was forced into this.
DJOldguy
And the asshole who succeeded him did nothing to stop this before it got any further. Yes, weak assed Obama...
theshinobi23
Looking at your comment history, I'm guessing this was meant to be sarcastic, but you forgot to include the /s at the end. With that assumption in mind, I will neither downvote nor upvote you. For the future, always mark them. As long as Mars and his ilk are around, there will be people that say that shit unironically.
DJOldguy
In the main, Obama was pretty good, but he fucked up big time over a few of things, one was not recognizing the growing threat of the Orange Returd and Republicunts with their Christian Nazi backers, another was backing off from pushing the ACA harder as the basis of UHC, another was his back down over Crimea. These three things, mainly, tainted his Presidency. Okay, no-one gets it all right, but these things have allowed the fascists the propaganda they wanted to take over. And they are!
theshinobi23
That's like when the villain claims that their victims' deaths are on the hero's hands, because he didn't do enough to stop them. There are arguments made for both sides of that coin that make a lot of sense, but ultimately, the actions of the villain are their own. We could blame Obama, Hillary, the DNC, or whatever, but ultimately, it's the conservatives that vote for the fascists and the actions taken by those fascists that are to blame.
DJOldguy
Obama wasn't perfect, the good he did was certainly not outweighed by the not so good, but with his understanding of history, and law and the world around him, he could/should maybe, have been a lot more proactive in the areas mentioned.
nikinnorway12
I dunno, he is kinda right. Obama was pathetically centrist and corporate. He didn't do anything to address the fundamental issues that eventually drove people to Trump. If even 10% more people felt Democrats were the party of change and rejecting a system the breeds debt and poverty, then maybe Trump would have been defeated by Clinton. Then Biden governed from the center too, and repeated the error. Though the real common denominator is Trump voters ignorance.
WarlockSniper
*Willful ignorance, because they don't want to stop hating others
floatationman
The irony to me is that Obama, the living definition of a moderate centrist, was painted as a communist by right wing propaganda and TENS OF MILLIONS believed that in their bones.
aesaclub
Yes he's right. Trust is gone for 50+ years.
Every deal now with the US on Space, IT, weapons are considered only for interim use while Europe can start up own production.
The old idea was that we wouldn't compete on everything because USA was a reliable supplier since the end of WWII (not before) and US troops stationed in Europe protected that market.
Europe has already launched programs to close those capability gaps and will compete globally with things like alternatives to Patriot missile.
MassiveCollisionY
I kept saying this, in a way, we're all very lucky he is an absolute moron. Get someone smart and malicious and it is absolutely game over. Also, those outside relationships will not be mended easily and without a complete reform...
SnoiD
Oooooo I like that one “America is a hotel room and Trump is a blacklight exposing the jizz”. Right up there with what Brad Pitt said in Killing Them Softly “America is not a country, it’s just a business”
MiserableBustard
A lot of people in these comments with selective hearing. Trump revealed the pre-existing fuckery, not of the Republican party but of the entire government. This isn't a partisan issue, nor a recent one. IE the Democrats are fucking us too. Biden? Fucked us. Clinton? Fucked us. Obama? Really fucked us despite the revisionist history around him.
torp
As a European, I’d nuance this. Yes, Trump exposes what many predecessors did more diplomatically, by dropping the gloves and using populist bluntness. A Commission defence official even told me Trump might be a great opportunity for Europe. But I don’t think this will destroy US-European trust: Europeans aren’t angels, we forget quickly, and we keep using harmful things when there’s no choice or it’s convenient, like smokers or people who know GAFAM tracks them but still use them.
Ein0r
People are underestimating how much politicians in Europe want to get back to how it was before trump. Even if it is out of sheer convenience, like with the defense deals. Case in point: when biden got elected not everything was hankidory but good enough for business as usual. The general situation will be worse, if Americans will be able to remove trump somehow, but the craving for unity is still strong. The only one's who will likely go weakened out of this is the USA.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
I lost the last shred of trust in America as an ally when Snowden revealed that the US conducted global industrial espionage with the help of the NSA and the rest of its military intelligence apparatus. E.g., on German companies that compete with American firms. Ever wonder why the US is such an innovative power house? This is why. The NSA scandal happened under Obama's watch, but of course it's been going on since long before him. Even with Obama at the helm, the US was the opposite of an ally.
viva93
you're telling me a government spied on another government? I hereby resign from participating in government! Think about what you're talking about. This is not even remotely an American thing, it's a human thing. America's is just a large example amount hundred ls of countries doing exactly the same thing. Money is powerful, information is controlling.
IlluminaBlade
I have trouble imagining that any nation remotely capable of state level corporate espionage hasn't been doing so for the last century or longer.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
This close entanglement between government and private sector is known as fascism. You're essentially saying "I have trouble imagining that any nation capable of devolving into a fascist shithole isn't already a fascist shithole" in order to excuse the fact that the US is clearly a fascist shithole that bombs & invades countries and topples their governments over private oil interests & corporate profit. (It really isn't the only fascist shithole in the "free world",but that's just whataboutism)
Evi1Gav
The US used information gained via echelon to give Boeing inside information to beat Airbus in negotiations for selling planes to European operators in the 1980s/90s.
Haemaelaeinen
Even back in the day Marshall Aid was a vehicle of US influence. It was never out of their good hearts. Finland never accepted that, because it was obvious that US would get their grubby little mittens in the receiving country's pie. Also we had to balance carefully with USSR being next door and invasion being a real danger (they tried softer and harder means until the 80s, luckily we had Kekkonen who could charm Soviet rulers and helped us integrate with the West).
ElroodUnderworld
So, not saying that you're wrong to distrust the United States for spying on its allies, but you are aware that many Western countries do the same, right? Heck, France is a bigger player in corporate espionage on Germany than the United States is.
https://www.tarlogic.com/blog/france-and-economic-intelligence/
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Fuck France too then. But whataboutism doesn't change my point
Thajurriesexcuesed
LOL, where you from mate? Talking a lot of shit for a human being living on earth... Where does naivety like yours reside? Which place are you throwing stones from? Surely the society that made you has no skeletons for us to dance with...
walnutbreath
Do you remember how it turned out the Germans were helping the U.S. spy on France and the European Commission?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32529277
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
"Helping" by allowing the US military and NSA to build their espionage crap on our soil. You know who owns and operates ECHELON? Germany gets no say in what is being done with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON In case you've forgotten, we're still an occupied nation. We don't even get a say if we want nuclear arms in our country. In 2009, we begged the US to remove them and were told "Haha, nope. That Prague speech was just hot air. Fuck the NPT". And Merkel said "Yes Sir Mr. President".
RayIsPrettyOkay
I'm from Europe and agree with the sentiment. HOWEVER... I sometimes get vertigo from being way up on a high horse. There may be huge differences between different parts of the USA. Just like in Europe there are plenty regions/countries where human rights are secondary to power and greed. And even in the most free and democratic countries it seems with each elections we still move in the same direction as the USA. Let's see if we as Europeans will raise up if needed.
FacelessAce
But... Amerika Evul?
maliciousGman
Yeah, but normal boring stuff in the US doesn't make the imgur front page
squidfathead26
Eliminating the US as a holiday destination for the striking euro hyper-rich would be an improvement.
Scobragon
He's right. This is why I say US has permanently destroyed it's credibility. Not only did they let the tree of liberty die, they cut it down and built a throne to tyrants out of it.
mymustachecallstheshots
It's not necessarily permanent, but if we start working hard to rebuild our reputation now, it won't be rebuilt in my lifetime.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
The US has always been ruled by tyrants. The facade has just fallen off finally.
BrdCdn
Yep. The revolution was about keeping slavery and the oligarchs not wanting to pay any tax. Freedom and liberty were the original lies to get the working class to fight for them.
2Soon4Baboon
Me overhere like "the problem is capitalism will kill everyone and itself for profit"
Zunderfeuer
I still see more than enough people on here and otherwise on the internet and real life that just keep spouting the ''Trump and Maga ruined what America stands for!!'' bullshit.
America never was what it did pretend to be. It started out as a genocidal slave colony and went on from there. The only truly amazing was the amount of Propaganda that brainwashed billions of people. Apparently more so their own people
lezgetfukkinreal
I feel like it's spreading through North America, not sure about Mexico, but Canada has been dealing with some of the incel overflow culture as well.
Mythanris90
America didn't do it. Isreal and Zionists did.
demosteness
America bombed a school killing 170 children just some weeks ago
Mythanris90
Yes, under whose orders? The zionists / AIPAC controlling Congress. Americans don't control America.
demosteness
Then Americans shouldn’t worry when someone says America did this.
Mythanris90
Are you a jew by any chance?
BrdCdn
Keep passing the buck Americans. America absolutely did it.
Mythanris90
America is controlled by AIPAC, the zionists. Under that disguise, sure, America did it.
AtmaDarkwolf
Yup. 100%. Trump is just the festering wound that sprouted out of the cancerous tumor. We can happily hate him, but really, he is just what America produces. Until they can fix that, they will always be a Country full of child raping nazi clowns. Just now, we can all see it clear as day. We all know it. Hey 'merica, u great yet? We can see you, can you see yourselves?
ninjafartball
birdnerd360
They at least destroyed the GOP and will have to create new parties after this.
Shaodyn
Cheeto Face is just a symptom. The real problem is the corrupt system that let someone like him anywhere near the reins of power.
BrdCdn
And the soft lazy Americans that can't be bothered to do a damn thing.
Mostlydeadpool
it's been a shit system for decades. but it's been built around the idea that "only the rich get to be in charge" and putting huge amounts of money barriers in the way of getting into politics. well, cheeto was rich. and he was able to just waddle his way in without anyone stopping him. then nobody knew what to do because there was nothing to stop him. they HAVE to support the system because it's their source of power. even when it's obveously failed in a really bad way.
fbutaric
Don’t forget about the people who were ok with his transgressions and still voted for him. He will be gone but they won’t be
prosper020
Yep. A shit system will force people to want change. Unfortunately the change we are getting right now is for the worse. The people who voted the loudest for change were the ones who only wanted to tare everything down, not the ones who wanted to rebuild a better system. People who wanted revenge, not a better life.
LiminallyInsane
This is because corruption is a feedback loop. As corrupt officials gain power, they can disenfranchise those who would stop them, and thus secure more power.
The 'loud' voters are being handed hats and bullhorns. The 'quiet' ones are getting purged from the voter rolls and threatened into compliance by law enforcement with a bigger budget than most other countries' militaries.
A shit system will force people to want change. A *really* shit system will force them to die for it.
Shaodyn
They didn't want the oppression to stop, they just wanted to join it.
BARP
Nothing is permanent is this world. Germany certainly must have seemed permanantly destroyed after WWII, but after the denazifying of the country post war, they are a formidable ally across the globe.
FrancsTireur
Erm, yeah but what happened with Germany is that we levelled all their major cities, killed or drove to suicide all their leaders, occupied and divided the nation, dismantled its military so it could never hurt anyone again, then rebuilt its military and government under our supervision with tens of thousands of our troops still sitting in bases in their country just incase something happened.
This wss also in the era before nuclear weapons, i think if nukes had been a thing we probably 1/
FrancsTireur
Would have simply erased Germany entirely or at least major bits of it.
And even after all that, I have to tell you, I was raised by two products of WW2 and they never forgave Germany, they never trusted Germany again.
Id go so far as to say that if there was one place and people they hated it was Germany right up until they died in 2016 and 2018 respectively. 2
Swedishbouldering
If nukes where available, we would all be speaking german and eating bratwurst now. They where so far ahead in military development we should thank the starts enough superpowers put aside their differences to stop them.
Usa only became a military superpower after ww2 because they forgave all the nszi scientists to manufacture weapons for them.
FrancsTireur
They actually weren't ahead on their nuclear program, largely thanks to the Norwegian resistance.
The only heavy water plant in the third reich was located there and the resistance blew it up. Its also unclear if they had sufficient fissile material as none was ever located after the war, but its possible the Soviets took it.
Scobragon
Germany now isn't just Nazi Germany with new president, the whole government was torn down and they wrote new laws. If US goes through a process like that, I'd be willing to count it as a new country altogether, but until it does, nope.
someguy7734206
The denazification didn't really happen naturally or gradually either: it was an active campaign by foreign powers that defeated Hitler's forces and occupied the country. Russia is another country where like the US, their leader is not the problem, but merely a symptom of a deep-rooted cultural rot that has festered for over a century, and that's the sort of thing that is very unlikely to go away without some sort of radical external intervention.
BARP
True that!
schlummi
It wasn't only foreign powers. 68ers also questioned their parents - plenty of "former officials" were still in high ranking positions. Allies weeded out the "most involved", but some got overseen, some willingly ignored (see Wernher von Braun - and US space program). But my message here: it not only requires the next gen to challenge the past: it also requires time. 68ers were ~25 years after WW2. Reputation mostly restored? 2000 maybe? How long would it take the US to recover? 30 years? 50?
everspaceman
Angela Merkel said that it was incredible that the change in the USA was from ONE political generation.
Much of Europe has had it's wars, and now realises that the best way to go is via economics/trade. This requires stability - one thing that the USA doesn't do well now. China is the same - wants stability.
troutslap
Honestly that's a bad look on Merkel. It didn't take a single political generation. This has been brewing since the Citizens United decision and the creation of Fox News as a right-wing propaganda arm.
schlummi
Other countries usually look at US foreign policy most. US voters tend to look at US domestic policies first. George Bush and Biden are both traditional transatlantic politicans. Both had a heavy focus on EU/NATO and seeked close cooperation (under US leadership; sometimes pressured allies into cooperation). Obama already shifted the US focus more towards asia, where (obvious) upcoming new challenges wait. But obama never questioned the alliance with EU/NATO, either. He wanted a stronger EU as a
schlummi
partner. A stronger EU also means, that EU would be more independent. So a partnership more on eye level would have been unavoidable consequence of this policy. Europeans - after the bush wars - welcomed this. Trump? Wants to leave NATO, sees EU as his enemy. Cut support for a key war in europe. Forced EU to beg on their knees to be still allowed to purchase US weapons. That's comparable to EU denying weapon deliveries to the US in a US-russia war. Trump also somehow wants that EU spends more on
schlummi
its military and supports the US military more (see his attempts to turn iran-war into a nato war). But at the same time does he work hard to reduce US-EU ties (see his trade war, see his attacks on EU, his attacks on european politicans, him stopping weapon deliveries, him undermining democracy in EU - and so on.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
It's been brewing since Regan and possibly even before then.
ThatOtherGirlYouKnow
As a former European now a US Citizen
A) This is absolutely true.
B) The US is too large and diverse to be considered a single country, the US is 30-50 feral hogs in a trenchcoat.
WienerBeener
WHICH IS WHY WE NEED MORE AR15'S!
thecorrupterx
That's what it used to be, now it is just 5 mega-corps in a trench coat trying to act like a country.
Fuckimgurcunts
Not the 30 to 50 feral hoooooogs 🤣 you're so fucking right
cousteau
Honestly wondering why anyone would migrate from Europe to the US tbh. It doesn't sound like a safe/civilized place. Although I suppose it wasn't this crazy a few years ago
ThatOtherGirlYouKnow
I came over during the Obama years.
Affray
Canada is similar only we've got more land than the US but 10% of their population. Makes for some weird Provincial dynamics.
seriously9
Canada here, we call them the trailer park to the south. Noisy, smells bad and rude.
We just apologizing and bringin’ marshmallows and popcorn to watch the dumpster fire burn. We gonna make California the 11th province. Email us when you would like us to invade.
ThatOtherGirlYouKnow
Now? Washington State and Oregon are on the way south and you'd not even need to fight because we'd be too busy learning the rules to Hockey. Its mostly MMA meets figure skating, right? We can get behind that.
swedeonamoose
Sooo what you are saying is that they need more AR-15s to deal with the hogs ? /s
Cranbananarama
TrumpRapesChildren
Yes. 5/7 deaths to hogs are from not being properly soaked prior to.
DarwinsWeasel
Animal Farm.
aesaclub
Yea does not seem to be anything really holding the U.S.A. together. Way too much power with the federal rulers. And now it's in the wrong hands.
KindaCHill
We need to be broken up into (I think about 5) separate countries existing in some sort of confederation of member states or like a union of some kind.
Surely this has never been thought of before and can only go well.
Toqom
I'd have said union of member states, using confederation sounds like what the South wanted all along. Honestly the south should just be turned into a large parking lot, we don't need the racists
Hellomellow
Parking lot? Why not dense forest? We could use that.
tehvipah
Hi, southerner here! We're not all racists. Please don't turn my house into a parking lot, I've worked very hard for it
KindaCHill
I know, you can’t say “Confederacy” because of the connotation.
But as far as what it could look like it’s not an inaccurate word 🤷♀️
Skuggen
As long as it has a single foreign policy, the rest of the world will and must consider it a single country.
TsubakiTragic
What foreign policy? In the US POTUS dictates foreign policy which is carried out by the Department of state. With an idiot like trump in charge foreign policy is enacted by social media posts. That is not foreign policy, it's a tantrum.
pixelsnader
Just because it's chaotic 'policy' does not mean it is several (concurrent) policies. With the EU for example a country can say we'll deal with the French and Spanish, but not the rest. Or only the nordics. Or everything except Luxemourg and Poland. Or any combination. With the U.S. there is no generalized option to say "yes Cali, no Texas" or vice versa. You have to micromanage individual company relations and even individual personal purchases.
hyperchondriac
The foreign policy that shoots missiles at anyone who pisses off Israel badly enough. The individual states don't have control of those missiles.
HarbingerOfThis
Is there some other forgein policy in effect? If not, that's it. That's the best the US can do right now, when it comes to ensuring its sovereignty and national interests in the global stage.
Skuggen
And the biggest problem is that it goes well beyond "right now", because unless something fundamental changes about how the US works, Trump has shown clearly that the US can't be trusted to honor any agreements made.
ReaperCDN
Exactly. What foreign policy? It's up to the whims of a madman and not a single state or territory is actually doing anything to stop it. The entire point of OPs post is that nobody trusts the US because they have no checks and balances. Which means pedp hitler can do whatever the fuck he wants consequence free.
GoodChange
It is both. And that’s exactly what the guy means when he says that there are no checks and balances.
Dolenmorgul
The united states that aren't united
theGORTtakethaway
The...Divided States?
satanslittleposter
The Untied States.
kahooki
Unnited States
scnr
Rlyehyoyo
Fuckin' thank you! It is so difficult to hear Europeans talk about how Americans never rise up when they don't understand how decentralized the population is.
By numbers, we rise. By actions, we condemn. By size, it's dismissed.
Affray
1)I got into an argument with a German guy on here once because he was insisting that all Canadians needed to march on Ottawa when the
Affray
2)convoy was happening and set things straight. Meet their number with larger numbers and nip that shit in the bud. He wouldn't understand
Affray
3)that he could drive from the Northern most tip of Germany to the Southern most tip in the same time it takes me to drive to Ottawa and I
Affray
4)live in the specific region of Ontario that has Ottawa. It's forty five hours of driving from B.C. to Ottawa. Europeans don't get our size
lostlittletimeonthis
As an European, don't worry we are turning into the US slowly but surely, the EU is already a big lobby center, the right wing parties are already sabotaging environmental laws and industry gets away with more and more in the name of "competition", Israel is funding more and more political figures. Also the rich are also always complaining of taxes and hiding the money while making much more than their employees
Rlyehyoyo
Yeah, I'm aware and frustrated too. We're all in the shit together trying to figure a way out and I'd love if we acted more like it.
I feel your pain, friend.
ThisIsAllYouCouldComeUpWith
We DO have checks and balances, they're just being ignored by the people who swore to enforce them. This is the result of decades of maneuvering and bad-faith action.
HunglikeaHamster
/gallery/LI1Kftg/comment/2509467655
WoTLert
Your checks and balances are worth the paper they are written on.
SomeDetroitGuy
No, we don't. We have lies that we tell our children in the civics classes that are 90% pro-America propaganda and 10% actual information.
inkasep1
What that actually translates to is we have long since defunct checks and balances. When the checks and balances don't hold up to the very specific roles they were created for, IE, the president, the supreme court, congress, then it doesn't matter if they technically exist, they're functionally worthless, and we've known about this since BEFORE trump, thanks to consistent scotus bullshit that was festering before his efforts.
inkasep1
Until we can create new checks and balances that are NOT ignorable, that hold up to the corruption of the 21st century, then nobody has any reason to take us seriously ever again.
Radar2400
I guess we did, but idk it seems like there were still largely missing gaps that were held up by faith. I mean the supreme court basically rules whatever it wants. So much for "respecting presidence".
Scobragon
So you don't have checks and balances.
FacelessAce
By that logic, no government in the world has checks and balances.
Targe0
There are still some.
Not all of them are being ignored.
For example the division of Sate power is still holding firm and its getting in the way of Trump being able to do everything he wants.
The issue with that, is that only works for domestic actions, international is mostly controlled by the Federal level and a lot of it comes from the Presidential office, and agencies the President has a lot of control over. So internationally Trump has much more freedom.
HunglikeaHamster
This ! If your car has headlights that don't work you don't have headlights, no matter how pretty they look. The constitution and the bill of rights are the USA's broken headlights.
pixelsnader
Yeah but the thing is they have headlights, they are functional, they just refuse to turn them on. Impeachment is a viable solution but it needs to be used.
Nukls
dffksh
What does the blue mean?
TanithRosenbaum
It's flourescence, i.e. converting one wave length into another, in this case UV to visible light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence Many body fluids fluoresce because they contain compunds that do so. Examples are sperm and urine (but importantly not blood). https://www.horiba.com/int/scientific/applications/others/pages/detection-of-body-fluids-with-an-alternate-light-source/
TheDoctorCrankenstein
UV light.
dffksh
TheDoctorCrankenstein
I can hear this image.
clonedeeznuts
Checks and balances is the same lie as "home of the brave" and "abolished slavery"
TheDoctorCrankenstein
High time people realize this country and everything it is was built on the lies of the owning class meant to keep the working class subservient.
TanithRosenbaum
I'm more surprised that isn't common knowledge. At least from the outside, that is so blatantly obvious... Like, even starting with the constitution. If you look at it, it's clear it wasn't written for the common person. It was written by and for wealthy traders who needed as little government influence as possible but had no money issues they would ever need to worry about. That's why to this day the US is one of best places for the rich and one of the worst places for the poor.
TanithRosenbaum
the entire american dream BS was a retcon to keep the poor from rioting.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
The propaganda is strong and most people fall for the "Just World fallacy".
Flexiblewarmth
Culturally, US is known for it's flag waving patriotism. Is so obvious in American screen productions if you live outside the nation and watch stuff from all over the world. The nation, like many is run by lobbyists representing their interests - money buys votes. "I got bullets to sell bro. I got whole factories tooled up to make more bombs and planes and death and destruction, please make more war, and prolong the war, cheers, here's some more money. God bless America."