unclefishbits
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Aug 16, 2024 11:46 PM
unclefishbits
54887
1276
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5omeWhiteGuy
You guys are idolizing people?
KenjiKando
I thought Rorschach was Nick Valentine and I was about to throw hands.
tyrsfavoritesword
You're good people. Nick is awesome.
friendsofsandwiches
Not seeing Gordon Gekko here.
majinboob
Alec Baldwin from Glengarry Glen Ross
Basically dudes who "conquer" their emotional problems and insecurities by channeling it into destruction and selfishness.
As opposed to the model of masculine strength exhibited by characters like (non-Zack Snyder) Superman, Captain America, Aragorn/Hobbits/Gandalf
unclefishbits
I never idolized it but it's just such a scene stealing chewing up the fucking entire moment around Ed Harris Jack lemmon al Pacino, etc. that is surreal, but yeah that Guido dick energy got translated into "baller", when his representative of all the toxic nonsense people need to deal with in business
majinboob
Totally. Just because these are morally bad characters doesn't mean they can't be entertaining, or even darkly admirable. The problem is people who don't understand the difference between a fictional story and real life.
dwilson0725
I very much enjoy a well written bad guy. The more twisted in the moral ideals, the better.
unclefishbits
I think well written is the problem. It can be written good enough that people get confused, but well written travesties of human morals is very difficult. People are currently loving this art the clown guy from terrifier, and it's edge Lord trash versus col hans panda from Inglorious Basterds.. You might be the most
VriMech
pokos33
Somehow all the chuds either didn't realize or collectively ignored the fact that Paul's whole story is a giant warning about the dangers of charismatic strong men who claim that they'll solve all your problems in exchange for your undying loyalty.
CyborgScribe
The author of Dune feels like one of those chuds when he writes a whole book where a charismatic strongman justifies his tyranny with his (shown to be genuine) magic prophecy and saves humanity. He eventually just wrote evil Jesus and made him real and justified.
spiffylookingnerfherder
MasterMookie
Umm that specific Joker movie paints him in a better light. The Joker in other scenarios are not a person to emulate but in that specific scenario I pity him and understand his anger but don't condone his outlet.
fearghul
You might want to check out the White Knight comic run, it's got a medicated reformed Jack Napier and a lot of interesting twists to it all.
Frogapus
There's also the all-too-brief advent of Oberon Sexton from Grant Morrison's run on Batman
Merdock
This is why I liked the show Barry. Barry was bad, and especially after season 2 the show accepts this fact. By the end it felt like a critique on shows like breaking bad. Yes, Walt is bad, but they can't help but make him seem like an intelligent bad ass. I don't think anyone finishes Barry and idolizes him.
Sulexar
Walt is objectively highly intelligent, and you're probably the only one who thinks taking on multiple drug cartels and consistently coming out ahead isn't badass. Your issue is thinking those labels are universally good. Palpatine is an intelligent badass. Still horrible.
Merdock
I'm not saying he's not intelligent and I'm not saying he doesn't have moments of badassery, but it feels a little hypocritical for the show to set up and frame scenes that either directly or indirectly have you rooting for him alongside the message "he's bad". I mean, his final act is killing white supremacists and saving his former partner from slavery, after finding a way to get his money to his son. Objectives we want him to complete. And he dies content. He won.
spiffylookingnerfherder
IIRC Gilligan said he was determined that every last member of the audience would have a moment by which they were no longer rooting for Walter White, or at least not be on his side, and for him it came early.
Akurei00
I kept rooting for him to get out of the life but it became evident it was too deeply rooted. He was deeply troubled and unable to be rehabilitated. The humane thing was for him to die. He was sort of a victim himself.
Walter White was continually evolving into a worse monster. In the early seasons he was savable. But he embraced the monster in him and kept feeding it. It was always there, but mostly latent.
Definitely no one should finish either show idolizing either character.
AreYouABadPerson
The important thing to remember is the show goes out of its way to show Walter White was ALWAYS a gigantic asshole. That's what the scenes with Gretchen, the old company they formed together, etc are all about. He basically burned every bridge he had and that's why he was reduced to being a chemistry teacher in New Mexico and so beaten down he was getting a pity-handjob for his 50th birthday.
AreYouABadPerson
And it really can not be over-stated that he was explicitly offered a job that would have paid well, had full coverage health insurance to help him, and that they'd make sure his family was taken care of. And he was too much of a prideful, petty asshole to take it. He didn't HAVE to make meth. He CHOSE to because it made him feel like a big boy.
hyptosis
I once heard someone say Barry Block was the hero and Barry Berkman was the villain
unclefishbits
I can listen to Bill hader all day on podcast talking about film. There's a playlist on YouTube from some baked whale podcast where it is 30 second to 2 minute clips of hader talking about all the film history. It's amazing. But he talk about writing it with his writing partner and realizing this guy has to fucking die, you can't have a moral or hero's death this person has to get what they deserve in the chaos they created.
ICampOntheFirstDate
We could split the room a little more if we threw Falling Down on the list.
DodgyMerchant
I fekken despise William Foster so much.
psugab
Why?
fartharder
"I'm the bad guy?" "Quite"
Delathi
And Gordon Gekko. Michael Douglass has a double bill on the list.
VictusVonGuyver
Missed one.
Shawnthegirl
They're great characters, fun even - but they aren't role models.
I adore Joker and Harley, but they are NOT relationship goals.
4vie
.... Care to take a second to unpack the reason for your adoration?
Shawnthegirl
Not sure what you might be implying - the real answer can't fit well into a quick and easily digestible internet comment. The short and not in-depth reason is when the Joker isn't abusing her, the two are entertaining. If taken more as a whole, where Harley eventually understands this is abusive and leaves, hers is a story of growth. Her struggle justifying his actions, her temptation to go back to him - a lot of abuse victims struggle with that.
Storywise, Harley is real and grows so >>>
Shawnthegirl
Mr. J can keep being a comically evil bastard. The story needs an unapologetic bad guy for Bats to keep going.
Also, I like the juxtaposition of clowns that are evil.
dogfavoriter
Who is top left guy?
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver
gearsfan1549
forgot bojack horseman. a great show about a terrible piece of shit
unclefishbits
But he is sort of like Deadpool in his self-awareness that is what the tragedy is about in his desperate and failed ability to become better and grow even though they want to and cannot. Ryan is taking Deadpool to the yes he can, and it's been charming
spiffylookingnerfherder
UbAhivn
Can't wait till we see trump on this meme
drziod
Well some of theses have deep mental health issues. Otheres are just assholes
herpb4uderp
was dineros character in taxi driver idolized??? he came off as a mega creep to me. could not believe the chic said yes to going on a date with him after the way he talked to her. all i could think was "is she crazy???" martin scorcesces female characters oft leave something to be desired if they are even present at all.
fearghul
Sadly, yes. That's what the "missed the point" thing is all about, there are people that genuinely idolise these characters.
Darksol439
I feel like Eric Cartman needs to be in this especially recent episodes and specials. Conservatives now see South Park makes fun of liberals from diversity via Star Wars/MCU to whatever. Are unaware Eric Cartman represents them in a negative light. becoming a parody of them they seem to be idolizing in more and more, they are truly lagging lacking self-awareness the character has become a critique on them.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ColdestOne
Tldr?
unclefishbits
This reminds me that a whole bunch of conservatives just figured out that the boys is making fun of them. Glorious
Darksol439
yes and it took them Four Seasons to figure that out.
Sydonis12
I mean, the show does both, it criticizes the way corporations wield diversity with all the grace of rhino on coke, while making fun of people who get too obsessed with the topic and need to really touch some grass. Unsurprisingly, people tend to be blind to the criticism of their side based on their political leanings.
RevolutionOnHerLips
Cartman was literally always this too, complaining about hippies and "respect my authoritah"
hydrocarbon82
The "jew gold" bit got me. And the fact it came out while they were about to burn to death... I think the people that say the writing has gone bad [only] subliminally pick up on the disdain the writers have.
AreYouABadPerson
I mean you'd figure the overt anti-semitism would be a clue...
Darksol439
Yep I agree.
Frogapus
Helps that Joker is just Taxi Driver with an extra layer of makeup. Like beat for beat, Joker is 80% Taxi Driver and 20% King of Comedy. It's infuriating. It's not an homage when your script just straight up copies from better movies.
unclefishbits
I'm right there with you. I have my own reasons as a 1980s X-Men and New mutant marvel fan to love Deadpool, but I'll admit I was sort of psychologically tormented by joker making a billion dollars, such an exercise in cynical fucking social engineering that all these incel freak shows thought he was the new next level hero. I'm a film fan and the fact that made a billion by basically ripping off to better films gas lit me into fury lol Loved reading your comment
obviouslyrob
The Joker is a really aggravating one for me because, for the first time I could remember, the exact contours of the very same kind of severe depression I have was laid out on screen and everyone was like “this is so cool!” I can assure everyone that depression to that crippling extent is NOT COOL AT ALL.
unclefishbits
The cynicism and lost opportunity of that film hurt me deeply. It's extremely depressing and it's so telling of where we are at with mental health versus pop culture. I'm so sorry because it also feels marginalizing and lonely to carry the torch of saying hey this might not be good when everyone is dumb and thinks it's good
obviouslyrob
I feel like the film itself was extremely powerful even beyond my feeling seen, but the discourse soured everything around it.
Wrongclusterbdisorderbutgooff
People who romanticize Joker probably never stayed in a psych ward. And if they did as a "challenge" wouldn't make it 24 hours
freakshow314
That's an easy "challenge" when you can't leave. The second and third days are even easier 😆. *But careful- this one simple phrase can reset the timer!*
Wrongclusterbdisorderbutgooff
Yup. I think the only reason my timer didn't get reset was because I was "trouble" (calling out toxic staff, informing fellow patients they have rights, my roommate had been there for almost two weeks and never seen by a medical Dr. She came in with a broken thumb and toe. "Her symptoms are from her meds." Me: as an aide we had sepsis training. Her symptoms are early sepsis from her broken bones. Swelling at the break site isn't a med side effect. Turns out it wasn't her to but her foot. >
Wrongclusterbdisorderbutgooff
Suddenly she was in seeing the med Dr and her care improved, but then I got discharged. Went to visit her after. Planned to see her again, I call and she's been dumped on the streets. I know she moved in with one of her adult children. )
Weareallprimates
That was beautifully put.
fearghul
There's a certain sort of laugh that comes from utter despair and darkness, and if you've laughed it yourself you can recognise its energy instantly in others when it happens...and if you havent, I'm very glad. It's hard to explain to people that havent, but I suspect you get it.
obviouslyrob
For me it was crawling into the fridge in absolute shut-down despair. I never did a fridge, but I always tried to find the smallest enclosed space I could. I recognized that fridge scene immediately.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
Are you okay? Better, same, or worse?
obviouslyrob
Much better. This was all from before I sought treatment. It’ll never be gone, but I know how to keep it mostly at bay.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
Oh that's good. Drink some water, it's good for you.
andrewrankin1087360
Exactly...know what you mean,ppl just dont get it. The fact that him crawling into the fridge was unscripted makes the sceneso much more poignant and make me feel for him, joaquim pheonix, cause he obviously has been there
SewerRanger
Have you ever watched Melancholia by Lars Von Troy? It's one of the best expressions of despair and depression that's ever been put to film. It's a hard watch but, for me at least, ultimately, enlightening and kind of hopeful
pareidoliaperson
With Kristen Dunst?
SewerRanger
Yup
obviouslyrob
I have. It was almost comforting how accurate it was.
unclefishbits
Any important art can get hard to watch. Kiefer Sutherland and Kirsten Stewart in that deserved awards. I would be Kiefer. I would get out of fucking Dodge immediately
Rips4w
Nah. People that idolize them do it specifically as advertised. They want to have the confidence and position to manipulate and abuse. It's their fantasy.
nopo
Yeah, and they missed the point that you're not supposed to idolize them.
Rips4w
Well, unfortunately, there are lots of awful points in the world and there is no way you can decide which ones people should or should not take. If their point is to be awful, them they haven't missed anything. You just don't agree with them.
nopo
You arent understanding. These characters are not meant to be idolized. They were meant to be reviled. So anyone idolizing them is missing the point.
Rips4w
Intentions only go so far. Like I said, you can't choose how others perceive a character. That's just life.
nopo
No one is saying otherwise. Just that if you idolize these characters, you are missing the point the creator was trying to make with them. The whole point of the meme is that people did choose to idolize these characters and that by doing so, they have missed the point.
Kbantar
Just look at how popular violent revenge fiction is. I judge it harshly even though I admit to feeling its allure.
nopo
I mean, there is a great deal of catharsis in watching someone enact violent justice on those who wronged them.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
In the same way that enjoying these characters is not problematic, liking a genre isn't, but idolizing and hoping for it in your life can be. Entertainment generally needs some conflict to be interesting, dramas about problematic relationships are also quite popular, and basically encompass all of reality TV as well, and I would say the same, enjoying it is one thing hoping it's your life is another.
Kbantar
I did write that I judge it harshly not those who enjoy it. I had anger issues as a child, and don't like how good anger made me feel.
Mmmbopanddropit
But Don Draper is hot. So
Monkeynutsjoe
You make a fine point
Akurei00
You can fantasize about fucking a terrible person without idolizing said person.
LokJok
Rick isn't evil tho. He objectively cares for his family and generally tries to do good and be better. The problem is, from his perspective, he sees infinity through the multiverse, so most things in the end don't matter.
unclefishbits
He's toxic, he's emotionally abusive, he's manipulative, he's controlling, and that does not free him from the accountability of being a flawed human that is trying to grow but cannot. It's such a beautifully written character. It deals with this entire situation the post is about in a beautiful way, and Dan Harmon is an amazing dude.
behrditz
Yeah, I think the "wrong reasons" in that case are that people think its cool to not care and think youre the most superior, that everything you do is excusable becauase in your mind you have ability.
digiorno88
Maybe not evil, but he is an alcoholic and a pretty big POS. I still enjoy watching it tho
MissPhoenix56
And it rubs off on Morty and Summer
unclefishbits
If you watch Ari Aster or any modern horror, the entire thread of a show like this or that kind of horror is intergenerational trauma. You don't have to be a bad person to be flawed, such that you impact multiple generations negatively consistently.
pokos33
Sure but he isn't someone to idolize either. He's toxic and downright abusive to his family, especially Morty and Jerry. He treats life as a big callous joke because he can't separate the forest from the trees. It doesn't matter that there are infinite versions of his family out there. The fact is that he treats the family that's around him like shit more often than not.
MissPhoenix56
We got a reminder when Morty visited croenenberg world and Jerry dropped the line “You came back and talked about us like we weren’t people, Morty!”
Like this is his actual dad, and they left him, his mom and his sister frozen because they weren’t the ‘canon’ universe anymore.
LokJok
All true. The one caveat I'll say is that he is self-aware and trying to be better. He's definitely improved from Season 1.
JohnWickdidnothingwrong
It's always a bit odd to see Rorschach on this kind of list. Is he idolized?
nopo
I know several people who wanted to be like him when the movie came out and said that he was the only morally justified person in the story because he refused to be complicit in Ozymandias' plan.
Kbantar
He was less bad than all the other characters in the movie, IMO. They were all sacks of shit though, IMO.
JohnWickdidnothingwrong
Yeah, that was kinda the thing. I mean, he was the only one who stuck to his principles no matter what, but it was sad and tragic rather than superheroic.
Kbantar
I kind of felt that a transporter accident fusing Owlman and him could make a Batman knockoff.
Kbantar
I do feel that he is what would happen if a real person gained super powers and tried to be a super hero. Once you think you're above the law, your sense of self importance will creep up.
MutatedHorse
What'd rorschach do? I know he's a lunatic but I don't remember him doing anything to anyone innocent.
nopo
He was a violent lunatic. It's not really about what he did, but who he was and how he behaved.
RevolutionOnHerLips
he broke Moloch's fingers to squeeze information out of him, murdered some dogs and burnt a pedophile to death after said guy had surrendered. he's a very "the ends justifies the means" person and is probably who most cops want to believe they are when they're switching off bodycams
Kbantar
The child rapist killer knew he would find a way to get out to rape and kill again in the corrupt system. I think even morally grey people would have trouble resisting the urge to kill him in that moment. ( I do not condone killing the bastard though.)
RevolutionOnHerLips
Me and my sisters are victims of CSA and I don't condone extrajudicial killings of people who surrender. I'd rather idolize people who want to fix a broken system than abandon the system and seek vigilante justice, personally. It's a whole other conversation but spending decades feeling guilty that I didn't murder my father when I had a chance didn't help my mental health, and if just killing these people actually prevented the crime in the first place, it wouldn't still be so commonplace
Frogapus
Don't forget when the lesbian superhero was brutally slaughtered, Rorschach commented that she deserved it because of her lifestyle. Granted, he didn't do it, but it's a strong marker of his character and perspective.
mirrorz
The anti-hero is just a better written villain.
Kbantar
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Some anti-heroes try to make the world a better place but instead just increase suffering. If I gained Superman's power tomorrow, I'm sure I'd fuck things up.
psugab
Or at least less explored. Usually villain motives are "because I know I'm right, so everything else can fuck off." Works with ones like Dr Horrible ("The world is a mess and I just need to rule it"), ones that want revenge because X bad thing happened, and the ones that just want a shit load of money.
lifeisadadjoke
Anti-heroes are typically more complex in their creation, and just end up being better characters in creation. While usually not diabolical in their mission (as some of the folks here are), they are usually self-centred, and definitely not altruistic.
Akurei00
Antiheroes do the wrong things for the right reasons.
FuzzyZergling
Not really? They're pretty different character archetypes…
An anti-hero is a character who uses villainous means to reach heroic ends; a villain is a character who uses villainous means to reach VILLAINOUS ends.
And then there's the anti-villain, who uses heroic means to reach villainous ends.
lifeisadadjoke
Missed Deadpool.
unclefishbits
Depending on writers, he shows a desperate need for growth and is self aware
Arcanum3000
I agree Deadpool is not someone to idolize, but his relationship with heroism is also more complicated than many of the characters in that image, especially if you include the comics. Deadpool knows he's not by nature a good person, but he *wants* to be and *tries* to be a good person, and not in a narcissistic "why don't you people understand I'm doing this for you" way. I think that's something you can respect without blanket idolization of the character.
Frogapus
Depends on who's writing him and what period. Early Deadpool was a fucking monster who abducted and abused innocent people around him. Some iterations have him struggling to be a misunderstood hero. I think the Gail Simone version of him is my favorite--extremely flawed, broken, but struggling to be better.
lifeisadadjoke
Exactly my point.
BrianDHughes
You forgot 'The Punisher'.
Aluc4rd14
Came here to say this
DrDadJokes
Punisher? pff nah, he won't hurt a fly
daliamonra
Only when cops do it.
SpotlightStealer
It blows my mind when I see his symbol put next to thin blue line flags. Like how do so many people miss the point so profoundly in such a consistent way?
dogfavoriter
It's a starter pack. The Punisher is a rare find in an expansion deck.
OppaGangnamPyle
It's not a list. It's a couple examples
dirtcreature
And Darth Vader
TheWorstWizard
Frank Castle is famously not having a good time... :my entry for understatement of the century:
LooseyGooseyBrett
I didn't idolize anyone on that list, the Punisher, however, is one I do idolize.
blowmywhistler
Came here to say this
psugab
Punisher had good ideals, but has been taken over by people punisher would have shot
[deleted]
[deleted]
Sunshine12345
Hey, I have that one! I think I am going to go back and read it, thanks for reminding me
raknor88
Yeah, Punisher knows he a bad guy that does bad things. But they're necessary things. He would not want people copying what he does or anyone to idolize him.
Bossco20
Sorry, but old Frank thought cops who follow the rules are idiots and cowards. He explicitly wanted police officers to work with him to kill criminals.
Xenarion
"Good ideals" eh, idk. Even the Punisher himself was against people doing the same thing as him.
casualgenderquestion2718
thats even specifically his problem with punisher fan cops, that they dont recognize it’s bad to be doing this, and he’s basically supposed to be taking the place of “sin-eater,” doing the things that nobody should do but have to get done anyway.
Sleepingpanda1260
Sleepingpanda1260
GadenKerensky
I don't think he ever felt he did.
deadnite3
Whose the silhouette in the background?
blainetog
Someone coming to talk to him about an extended warranty for his guns.
TheMostKink
Elektra.
deadnite3
Thanks man.
deadnite3
Thanks man
initforthespecs
Throw Che Guevara and Mother Theresa in there too
macgerdo
Don't forget Martin Luther. Not King. The original one. And also Ghandi. And basically everyone before our time.
initforthespecs
Martin Luther was certainly not a great person. My big props tonhim tho was his high level of critique towards the catholic church.
macgerdo
And that's what we shall remember him for. Not for his sexism, racism or antisemitism.
RevolutionOnHerLips
don't forget Gandhi
dirtcreature
Interesting. Why Ghandi?
initforthespecs
He was a bit of a racist and misogamist iirc i didn't include him tho bc i hadn't read much of it
dirtcreature
You mean culturally? Considering his achievements and the complexity of Hindu/Muslim conflicts, and the time (late 1800s when America's civil war was still fresh in the minds of it's survivors, I don't think it is worth demonizing him.
initforthespecs
Tell that to the other person then, he's not on my list of two
unclefishbits
I adore you. Che? A cruel man that was made into a capitalist icon to destroy any perceived legacy. What a loser evil jerk. But mother Teresa was evil. She let people die so she could have notoriety. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/10/the-fanatic-fraudulent-mother-teresa.html
There is a crazy documentary exposing her evilness. Hell's Angel- https://youtu.be/Ebw-Y0ZRqic?si=P4zA1Cm_zIAIRZdS
ps238principal
There was a bit on This American Life about how all of these opposing groups, from extreme left to extreme right used Che Guevara as an icon. Che has apparently become completely uncoupled from his politics for a lot of people.
Pheehelm
Maddox's explanation for why his avatar is based on Che Guevara: "No, I'm not a socialist/marxist/communist. I'm using the Che picture because I think it's a good parody of a recognizable icon (even though most people who read this site don't realize the parody, don't ask questions and don't know who he was), and because most people consider him 'Che the revolutionary,' not 'Che the pinko.'"
initforthespecs
It's because people conflate "Communism" with an "economic system" and not a "political theory" so the left thinks he was a socialist freedom fighter but ignore that he executed and tortured political prisoners (gays, human rights activists, people of races he didnt like) and the right see him as a anti-gov rebel but ignore the economic half of the dudes ideals (he was a socialist idealist)
hydrocarbon82
I like him just because of the irony of his worship by said groups. He'd have pissed down their throats, and I can respect that.
unclefishbits
He would murder them without evidence or trial.
rmsrmsrms38
Wait. What did Mother Theresa do? Che for sure is in hell.
arfysdad
https://youtu.be/NJG-lgmPvYA?si=GhseUCDcWwU2Y43_
somnif
She had this whole "To suffer is divine" thing going on, which lead to a lot of rather horrific situations "bringing people closer to god"
fearghul
Mother T was a fucking monster. Denying people painkillers because it made them more appreciative of god and other such shit...
junkgoof
I have more sympathy for Che. He worked with Americans and realized just how bad American foreign policy is, how much it destroys countries. He was a mess. Mother Theresa told people not to try to fix their country, it will work out in the next life, you know, the fictional one. Religion is just to keep the gullible suckers down and she did her best to keep them there.
dirtcreature
Sympathy for Che? There is no relative scale for this psychopathic, entitled, murdering, torturing asshole. Only a rich kid that wanted for nothing is best at killing people to get his way, right?
J0NY5
She also accepted donations and horded the money for herself rather than spending it on patient care.
initforthespecs
It's kind of a mess and certainly my source is not the ultimate authority but it's an insight perhaps. You're welcomed to read up more and argue if you find something to the contrary! https://www.vice.com/en/article/gvzebx/mother-teresa-was-kind-of-a-heartless-bitch/
nopo
I don't think she really counts as "missing the point". The others are all "This really isn't someone you are supposed to admire, but be horrified by" that people chose to admire anyway, while Mother Theresa is, at least in theory, someone who is supposed to be admired.
AreYouABadPerson
She really isn't. She was a god damn monster. The only "good" she did was fund-raising for the church. There's a reason they fast-tracked her for sainthood after she finally fucking died.
nopo
My point is that the characters in the meme were never supposed to be admired or idolized. That is why idolizing them is 'missing the point'. You were supposed to admire Mother Theresa.
dudeloveall
Iirc she would refuse food or treatment to those in her hospital unless they converted while simultaneously writing in her diary about having doubts that god even exits. I read a cracked article from a decade ago, so take it with some salt.
TorvusBull
The hospital was also in poor condition and she refused to give people painkillers, but when she was sick or hurt she used them herself, in a clean and modern hospital.
Herefortheboos
There's more nuance to the mother Teresa stuff she was still pretty good.
AreYouABadPerson
There really isn't. She was good at fund raising. She was a fucking psychopathic monster who kept people in suffering because her beliefs were that suffering brought you closer to god.
TorvusBull
You left out the part where she went to modern hospitals when she was sick or hurt. She didn't let the people in her hospitals take painkillers but she sure as hell did, herself.
Herefortheboos
Hmm maybe i didn't have the full story
ps238principal
You can also add Homelander to the list, which is astonishing to me.
Foxsayy
Who idolized Walter White?
notkvothethebloodless
I still found it hilarious it took the right wing nut jobs til SEASON 4 to realize they were being mocked. And now their acting like it the show JUST NOW 'gOt PoLiTiCaL' with this season, when it reality it just became so bluntly obvious even those dumbshits were able to catch up after 5 YEARS.
hyptosis
it really shows why they're so easy to manipulate too, god they're so fucking dumb
StrokeFlavoured
Who the fudge thinks Homelander is a good guy!?
unluckyandbored
Nazis.
DucksAreGood
Crazy how you can put an american flag on a character and a significant amount of american viewers will assume they're the good guy.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
I'm not even watching that show and I know he's the bad guy.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
"But he's dressed like a Good Guy!" -Person who probably bought Trump's gold sneakers
Superchao
I think people like that just idolize power.
LazerusK
I was almost going to say this should really be butcher, since no could POSSIBLY mistake homelander for a good guy. But of course there's always someone out there...
Hesselius
Yeah how anybody missed that is beyond me
astrangehop
I read "Homestar" like three times. It's real early.
MCpeepantz
Well, maybe some milk will calm you down.
vegivamp
relpmeraggy
And now I can stop thinking about Elizabeth Shue. Which isn’t bad.
unclefishbits
my friend, you are not incorrect.
apatheticantisocialite
sound on:
BigBidiza
Some people just can't wrap their head around the concept of a main character not being a good guy.
srsfaceI8C
Villains are usually "main characters" I guess, but Homelander is not the protagonist. Very clearly he is not the "main character" in that sense.
graifazig
Following "modern" writing conventions, villains even ought to be main characters, yes. In the sense of them acting as the protagonist of many scenes where the stakes are the highest for them. But sometimes it's still accepted to have the villains do a lot of "off screen" generic evil, perhaps by less experienced writers so they can easier pull of a surprise that works both for the audience and "good guys".
IgnisAurumProbat
Wrapping him in an American flag just broke people.
SarcasticComment
he was a rapist in episode 1. it's not like they are shy about him being terrible
DSREX
That is one of hte major changes from the Comic, in the Comic it was Black Noir dressed up as Homelander. In an attempt to drive him insane so he could kill him.
Black Noir in the show is not anything like the Comic version. Black Noir in the series is largely wasted space in the story and narrative.
LychFinderGeneral
Wasn't that the Deep?
SarcasticComment
Butcher's wife. it's why he has a son
Izdleve
The Deep sexually assaulted Starlight in episode 1, I didn't get past that episode because of that scene, but a quick Google glance says Homelander raped Becca in episode 7.
Milkarius
it's a flashback in episode 7 iirc!
Lichelf
He didn't do it in episode 7, he did it years before episode 1. She's the wife Butcher is trying to avenge from the start of the show.
Dracon27
True, but from a Viewer's standpoint, it's in Episode 7.
HuevosDiablo
Exactly. He was never the good guy. Anyone who idolizes Homelander at all is missing the point
wired314
They aren't missing anything. That's just what they openly idolise
IceWeaselX
Well, they idolize a real world rapist, so there's that...
darkhalfbreed
And for some people, real world rapists
Isthe4thtimethecharm
I mean, I'm not saying I am on team homlander. But did it show him raping in episode 1? I thought it was just Butcher saying he raped his wife. Again, I don't doubt homlander is a rapist. I just don't remember anything as black and white as you say. Either way, season 1 told you he was a bad guy and probably the worst of them.
CoinedWatcher
Other characters in the show mention it as well
somnif
In the comics is very explicitly a (frequent) rapist.
SarcasticComment
official show wiki lists it as a plot point
SarcasticComment
official show wiki lists Becca as a rape victim. Homelander in the comics is far worse.
MechanicalRomance
I feel like the only reason they toned down homelanders rape habits is cause of how upsetting it is to see on screen.
Isthe4thtimethecharm
I said I wasn't questioning whether or not she was raped. Just when it was actually told to the audience. Like I said, I am not team homlander. The comment said episode 1. I am curious if that timeline is accurate.
SarcasticComment
yes. which is why the official wiki listing it as plot answers that question