"Anyone that violates our rights under the 4th amendment while appearing to be law enforcement will be considered impersonating law enforcement and an immediate threat to the safety of our patrons, and we will respond with all necessary force to protect our patrons and staff.
Something tells me that the agents of concern will force their way in weapons drawn, and unless you are prepared to commit a few crimes you won't be stopping them.
The warning sign for my business says "These machines do not know the difference between metal and flesh, nor do they care. No ties, no loose hair, no weapons, no exceptions."
When I would train new hires to work in the grocery store deli, I'd tell them about the slicers: "this thing doesn't have a brain or a conscience; it has tasted human blood, and it hungers for more."
Trespassing is a state crime and cannot be pardoned by POTUS. OTOH it's Texas so who knows what a Republican governor might do. Regardless, it serves as notice to any subsequent judicial proceedings against anyone apprehended from there that access to the premises was unauthorized without a proper warrant.
Depending on jurisdiction, you would be right, as long as there is a distinction between ”public area” (e.g a park) and ”area where the public has access ” (very many places of business). Again, depending on jurisdiction.
That's a very Karen understanding of "public space"... Although ICE are just law enforcement Karen's. Just because the public can access a space, does not make it a "public space"
Wrong, in fact it's the opposite. It's essentially a no trespassing sign, meaning notice has been given. It's trespassing if the notice is subsequently violated. And a restaurant is NOT a public space, it's private property. The public is there only with the consent of the owner, and access can be denied at any time ("no shirt, no shoes" etc)
It's private property, but it's a public accommodation. A sign like this would work if posted on the entrance to an employee only area, say the kitchen.
ICE has statutory authority to enter a business without the owner's permission to conduct an I-9 audit, but only the areas of a business open to the public.
Bullshit. Restaurants are still private property. The fact that the owner allows the public to enter does not change that. The right to be on that property can be revoked at any time.
Yes, Captain Pedantic: A private business owner cannot exclude someone on the basis of legally defined protected classes (race, religion, etc). That is correct.
But anyone reading that knew what I meant. “Sir, you’ve had enough to drink and it’s time for you to leave”. “No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
No, they do not. The retail areas of a Target are open to the public, but it is still private property. ICE cannot legally (which, granted, means fuck-all under the Trump administration) conduct searches in these privately-owned-but-open-to -the-public places without a judicial warrant.
At this point, I’m convinced you are being willfully obtuse, so I’m done with you.
No it's not because it*s private property and unless the agents have reason to believe a crime is in progress they can't just waltz in without a warrant.
But none of that matters with that government, even if the agents blatantly and openly break the law or the constitution there will be no consequences.
So, there are no laws just like eion85 says? Like in most countries, Restaurants etc. that doesn't have locked doors with doorman, are public spaces, even if private owned? Like McDonalds = Public space. Lounge/restaurant/bar (whatever) with pre-arranged guests only = Private space.
Public spaces are your streets, government buildings ( to a degree), railroad stations etc. Everything else is private and law enforcement officers can't just come in by law which is derived from the constitution, period.
A restaurant by definition is a private space operated by the owner. Guests are of course free to enter, even law officers if they visit as private people but as soon as LEO's go there in an official function they can be denied access until they have a warrant.
You're confusing private property with a private space as defined by the fourth amendment.
Your car is private property, but if you have a massive pile of drugs in plain view on the passenger seat a cop can arrest you because you have no expectation of privacy for that.
That's why i said it's possible for cops to go in without a warrant if they ( reasonably) suspect a crime in progress. Having a pile of drugs in plain view certainly qualifies.
I don't think they meant like a state's attorney. I think they meant their own lawyers suing or something. Which isn't really prosecution, but I think that's what they meant.
some things it's a lot harder or even impossible to prosecute without the victim. If the "victim" of trespassing won't say they didn't invite the accused, there is no crime.
We won't actually know until the unidentified paramilitaries show up at my front door, now, will we?
It is pretty wildly illegal, and likely counterproductive given the current state of public perception, to go actively interfere with ICE like that somewhere else. It is perfectly legal and enshrined in my state's laws to defend my home against unidentified armed and masked intruders.
I'm not going to advocate for felonies on social media. I will advocate for defense of the self and home.
If they're storming my house and drag me off to a black site for days with no healthcare or access to my medical supplies, I'm dying in agony regardless.
Which means I can do nothing, and be guaranteed dead, or I can do something, and only probably be dead, with the added bonus of my behavior being both legally and morally acceptable.
bambinod
"Anyone that violates our rights under the 4th amendment while appearing to be law enforcement will be considered impersonating law enforcement and an immediate threat to the safety of our patrons, and we will respond with all necessary force to protect our patrons and staff.
sabatica
So hot right now.gif https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1bGtlb3VqZ2lmbm5yMnMzemUyM3UzaWNrcjdwMnptazduaHI2ZXdlcSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/bmHekgG9oUP8eOt1BJ/200w.webp (not the gif I mean, but whatever.
mccar7hy
Assuming they can read polysyllabic words I don't think they'll be interested in their meaning
SavageDrums
If ICE agents could read they'd be very upset.
ButtscratchMcPherson
You know if ICE agents could read they'd be very upset by that.
corndude101
Not really because they wouldn’t care.
They do what they want anyway, and are given protections that allow them not to care.
EatYourSoylentGreenAndShutUp
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1bXE2ZXdlaHFvbDFzZGlyc28yOW16dGIxaXVxa2xuZXIwZm41a3VsayZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/mPAfmTMIGPZsqACDPf/200w.webp
Affray
When they can just say that any ID is fake then arrest you anyway what good does a sign on a window do to stop them from doing whatever?
AmericasTorturedBrow
These are on the door of nearly every business in Minneapolis. Usually next to a f*ck ice sign <3
definedvariable
Also helps to have. Specific law office in the bottom right.
SnailsAgainstTungstenSpheres
It's there bottom right
Feralkyn
I assume that is why they mention it
battymcbaterson33
I could see it when I zoomed in.
OdinYggd
Something tells me that the agents of concern will force their way in weapons drawn, and unless you are prepared to commit a few crimes you won't be stopping them.
AverySillyName
spiritplumber
The warning sign for my business says "These machines do not know the difference between metal and flesh, nor do they care. No ties, no loose hair, no weapons, no exceptions."
It's a prototyping shop.
Burke616
When I would train new hires to work in the grocery store deli, I'd tell them about the slicers: "this thing doesn't have a brain or a conscience; it has tasted human blood, and it hungers for more."
BigBlueWonder
Employees are instructed to:
✅ Shoot you in the face
SacrificialClam
We have all the ingredients for molotovs and will take this building down with you in it
aaranaf
They can break any law they will just get pardoned.
bikergeek6249
Trespassing is a state crime and cannot be pardoned by POTUS. OTOH it's Texas so who knows what a Republican governor might do. Regardless, it serves as notice to any subsequent judicial proceedings against anyone apprehended from there that access to the premises was unauthorized without a proper warrant.
eion85
It very much depends where you post this.
If you post it on the front door of a restaurant (a space clearly open to the public) then it's useless.
drGrafenberg
Depending on jurisdiction, you would be right, as long as there is a distinction between ”public area” (e.g a park) and ”area where the public has access ” (very many places of business). Again, depending on jurisdiction.
Forensickle
That's a very Karen understanding of "public space"... Although ICE are just law enforcement Karen's.
Just because the public can access a space, does not make it a "public space"
eion85
The fourth amendment disagrees, as do several immigration laws.
ICE are fucking fascists, but I don't want people spreading bad legal advice.
putcleverusernamehere
Wrong, in fact it's the opposite. It's essentially a no trespassing sign, meaning notice has been given. It's trespassing if the notice is subsequently violated. And a restaurant is NOT a public space, it's private property. The public is there only with the consent of the owner, and access can be denied at any time ("no shirt, no shoes" etc)
eion85
It's private property, but it's a public accommodation. A sign like this would work if posted on the entrance to an employee only area, say the kitchen.
ICE has statutory authority to enter a business without the owner's permission to conduct an I-9 audit, but only the areas of a business open to the public.
https://signalcleveland.org/ice-agents-at-your-door-what-you-should-know-about-warrants-and-your-rights/
MikeRInternetTraveler
Bullshit. Restaurants are still private property. The fact that the owner allows the public to enter does not change that. The right to be on that property can be revoked at any time.
eion85
Not always.
For instance, Civil Rights laws say you can't forbid someone from using your public accommodation on the basis of race.
MikeRInternetTraveler
Yes, Captain Pedantic: A private business owner cannot exclude someone on the basis of legally defined protected classes (race, religion, etc). That is correct.
But anyone reading that knew what I meant. “Sir, you’ve had enough to drink and it’s time for you to leave”. “No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
eion85
And just like with civil rights, ICE has statutory authority to enter the areas of a business open to the public without permission from the owner.
MikeRInternetTraveler
No, they do not. The retail areas of a Target are open to the public, but it is still private property. ICE cannot legally (which, granted, means fuck-all under the Trump administration) conduct searches in these privately-owned-but-open-to -the-public places without a judicial warrant.
At this point, I’m convinced you are being willfully obtuse, so I’m done with you.
FPAlpha
No it's not because it*s private property and unless the agents have reason to believe a crime is in progress they can't just waltz in without a warrant.
But none of that matters with that government, even if the agents blatantly and openly break the law or the constitution there will be no consequences.
eion85
/gallery/JM8tMM8/comment/2505464843
SergeyPrkl
So, there are no laws just like eion85 says? Like in most countries, Restaurants etc. that doesn't have locked doors with doorman, are public spaces, even if private owned? Like McDonalds = Public space. Lounge/restaurant/bar (whatever) with pre-arranged guests only = Private space.
FPAlpha
Public spaces are your streets, government buildings ( to a degree), railroad stations etc. Everything else is private and law enforcement officers can't just come in by law which is derived from the constitution, period.
A restaurant by definition is a private space operated by the owner. Guests are of course free to enter, even law officers if they visit as private people but as soon as LEO's go there in an official function they can be denied access until they have a warrant.
eion85
You're confusing private property with a private space as defined by the fourth amendment.
Your car is private property, but if you have a massive pile of drugs in plain view on the passenger seat a cop can arrest you because you have no expectation of privacy for that.
FPAlpha
That's why i said it's possible for cops to go in without a warrant if they ( reasonably) suspect a crime in progress. Having a pile of drugs in plain view certainly qualifies.
thefinglongerer
I want to see "We Prosecute" on there somewhere
manwithsevenlivers
kojenk
"Shoot on sight with extreme prejudice"
pyroshen
That's what they want.
kojenk
Dude ffs. This is about authorities standing up to ICE. Stop bending over automatically.
Burke616
"We prosecute, with the law office of Smith & Wesson."
2074red2074
Only the prosecutor prosecutes. You can't force them to prosecute. Also if you're the victim of a crime, they don't need your permission to prosecute.
nalmeth
I don't think they meant like a state's attorney. I think they meant their own lawyers suing or something. Which isn't really prosecution, but I think that's what they meant.
akafluffy
some things it's a lot harder or even impossible to prosecute without the victim. If the "victim" of trespassing won't say they didn't invite the accused, there is no crime.
BarryTheCyborg
They almost never prosecute domestic violence without the victim testifying, even if they have an extensive record of police visits
akafluffy
and hospital visits, and CPS visits...
corndude101
Here’s the problem… all this paper is doing is stating the laws of the land, and communicating your constitutional rights.
Here’s where the problem comes in…
They don’t care.
They will force their way in. They won’t show you their warrant. They’ll arrest whomever they want. They may in fact shoot whomever they want.
They don’t care, and they have been given protection that allows them to not care.
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
Bold of them to assume the rule of law applied to the oppressors
anjeleyezjr
No warrant, they are violent intruders with no jurisdiction. Aerate some brain pans.
FaeVikingPrincess
They've been known to flash BLANK WARRANT papers at people before barging in.
porcinechoirmaster
I don't think they wear heavy enough plates to not care about my chosen method of ensuring they obey the constitution on my property.
bigfatpanda89
I've yet to see actual armor covering the face. Group it tight enough and none of them have the protection needed to stop resistance rounds
netharia
TALLY HO! *fires grapeshot*
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Like most people you are all talk.
porcinechoirmaster
We won't actually know until the unidentified paramilitaries show up at my front door, now, will we?
It is pretty wildly illegal, and likely counterproductive given the current state of public perception, to go actively interfere with ICE like that somewhere else. It is perfectly legal and enshrined in my state's laws to defend my home against unidentified armed and masked intruders.
I'm not going to advocate for felonies on social media. I will advocate for defense of the self and home.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Rofl....like the law matters in the states now. You would be gunned down or arrested and charged.
Even if pulling out a weapon and firing is legal, they will kill you on the spot for it. You go ahead and be dead, but legally be "ok"
Has not mattered for a long time.
porcinechoirmaster
If they're storming my house and drag me off to a black site for days with no healthcare or access to my medical supplies, I'm dying in agony regardless.
Which means I can do nothing, and be guaranteed dead, or I can do something, and only probably be dead, with the added bonus of my behavior being both legally and morally acceptable.