IToldYouSo1
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https://youtu.be/pJ9PKQbkJv8?feature=shared
John Oliver is a sexy Beeach! Go Pūteketeke lol
Thank you, my friend!
Mehdi Hasan, you should be at MSNBC 7:00 PM prime time lineup, right after Ari Melbern. That would balance things out ; )
designNow
Good, we need a fair conversation. This war just brought the ugly out of everybody
levyathyn
SOME Gazans voted for a more humanitarian and peaceful Hamas, in 2006, with no elections since and in modern times, zero ability to protest or ask for change without facing punishment. And even now, the best in Hamas stand head and shoulders above most of the IDF, with Hamas having less victims, fewer warcrimes, and actually less terror attacks, in comparison.
Fyrebaugh
Same thing as saying the Boomers created the economic crisis and not the few corporations who determine what to sell, what price to sell, the packaging we throw away etc...
Youhavinagiraffe
Hamas also barely won that election so even if the election was literally yesterday and evry single Palestinian who voted for Hamas approved of everything they've done then half of the civillians you're killing have been in opposition to them this whole time
KawhiLeonardIsSenpai
He's not wrong. We Americans did elect Trump in 2016
SomeDetroitGuy
Gazans gave Hamas a narrow plurality in an election 16 years ago. Most of the citizens of Gaza weren't old enough or alive to vote in those elections. After getting a plurality, Hamas seized full control of the government by force and hasn't allowed elections since.
thomn8r
So pretty much what the Republicans want to do
wolfbro86
Hamas was voted into power in the Gaza Strip in 2006, after being supported by the Israeli state to drive divisions within the Palestinian State (PLO controls the West Bank, Hamas controls Gaza). The median age of people living in Gaza is 18. The average person living in the Gaza Strip was *one year old* when Hamas was elected.
psmith00
a parallel could unfold in America id the MAGATS manage to elect Trump and his band of thugs. they'll turn on the general population subjugating it to do as they are told and, if they succeed there, turning America on what should have been its allies.
quietwalker
Individual Americans DO bear some responsibility for the government that is eventually elected. Even and especially Trump's. However, being slightly responsible doesn't make one an expert on policy and the word of an apologist holds the same weight as that of yokel with confederate flags on their pickup.
Frederf
I mean if an Iraqi extremist tried to kill me because I was alive when Bush invaded Iraq and killed like 1/4 million Iraqis because someone else did 9-11 like... mood.
plainoldfool
And as John Oliver pointed out in the segment, Hamas was marketing itself as a non-extremist, moderate party *AND* Fatah was (is?) known for their rampant corruption. Plus there's been no election since then.
AtmaDarkwolf
As he also pointed out, most anyone alive today likely less than half of them were even ALIVE back then. IE Most didn't vote for hamas.
LoudBirb
Yarp. Roughly 75% of the current population of Gaza would've been under 18 during that election.
69inginadonkeyorgy
All I will say about this entire thing. Is there needs to be a cease fire. Innocent people are getting hurt.
Volimar
That whole sgement was really good. Watch if you can.
RoutemasterFlash
Moreover, over 3/4 of the population of Gaza was either too young to vote in the last parliamentary election (2006) or wasn't even born then.
Harm
And the last elections in Palestine took place 17 or 20 years ago...
Evi1Gav
Nobody under the age of 36 has voted in Gaza. Which amounts to about 80% of the population.
TinyLiehon
Same segment also raises the point that election in 2006 (44% of votes). There hasn't been one since so nobody under the age of 30 voted for Hamas. Given that half of all Palestinians are kids you're looking at 80% of Palestinians not having elected Hamas.
Eleshar24
Netanyahu also propped Hamas big time because Hamas in power allowed him to picture Palestinians as islamist fanatics, so he would get a free pass in killing them from the US back then.
SithElephant
I disagree only that it's _way_ longer than decades.
Imalwaysready
Monroe Doctrine 4 LIFE!
SithElephant
(please note, I am not highlighting specifically US actions, the UK has a long history of glorious war-crimes of our own)
EmissaryofGondor
You are complicit in the actions of your elected leaders. You don’t get the rights without the responsibility. Same is true in America.
BaBaDuuk
Its almost like the hypocrites are showing no morals or logic but as we are kept tied in debates more bombs kill palestinian babies and if not bombs its the lack of basic fuel in a hospital. The world will be still debating whether isntrael is right or wrong long after palestinians are wiped out and by then its too late to do anything and no one punished. Its like drip fed bullshit discourse to give the false impression of civil debate that may help change minds but is just a carrot and stick
NathanielHammond
Maybe we're all terrible people
DamnedIfYouDo
North Koreans elect Kim Jong Un. Russians elect Putin.... Just saying: Hamas are terrorists to their own people too.
everythingzed
Wtf, Americans elected Trump too and they haven’t stopped apologizing for it since. Corrupt shit is going on everywhere there’s money to be made and we all know war is a profitable business - as long as you’re not a soldier or civilian.
gestug
Puteketeke
IToldYouSo1
TattoosAndTENS
Tell me again about the IRA and Sinm Fein, English man
zFUBARz
He mentioned that I think last week.
Baltzdelirium
Saying the thing we've been saying. Shout it out for us. I'm proud of the celebrities with a platform who use it responsibly.
knuckledeepinacatgirl
John has always been good people, he gets alot of shit thrown his way for saying the truth and backing it up on his show rather then toing the line, and keeps doubling down time and again. His obsession's with furry porn, birds and horses that fuck only makes it better.
wadatahmydamie
And then there’s Will from Stranger Things who’s going full Likud Nazi
Choe8
Oh interesting, totally missed this. What did he say?
wadatahmydamie
He’s literally making “Zionism is Sexy” stickers
LateNightBunnyParty
what?!?
wadatahmydamie
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/stranger-things-noah-schnapp-zionism-b2446347.html
LateNightBunnyParty
Wado. Jesus, what a little prick.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
He also uses his platform to promote weird amounts of horse based sexual deviance so I'm doubly proud!
echoawoo
To be fair... he's mocking a certain Turkmenistan dictator who gets major erections over horses, particularly the alhal teke, the state love symbol of turkmenistan or something
ahorseelbowdeepinme
I know exactly what you're talking about and that is by no means the only time he was horny for horses
AtmaDarkwolf
Also his obsession with Adam driver <3
zFUBARz
We already talked about the horse based sexual deviance though...
Hyperboi
@ElbowDeepInAHorse ?
VashTehStampede
didyouseewhatgodjustdidtousman
Maybe this is unpopular, but I DO think it makes them complicit. Just like Americans are complicit for the war crimes our leaders commit.
homerinchinatown
I don't know about 'unpopular' as much that it's just wrong. Suggesting that you personally were involved with or otherwise bear some responsibility for things where you had no knowledge or involvement, and that were done by people you may not support or even know, and that you might oppose once you're aware of them, is a hard thing to justify. In the case of the current conflict, terrorists deserve justice, but the people who happen to live down the street do not
vizeroy42
You can't be complicit to something, you were too young to vote on. With 75% of Gaza inhabitants too young to have voted, or even been born in 2006, when the last election was held... You can't say the same thing about US citizens.
didyouseewhatgodjustdidtousman
You guys make some decent points, but I still think a citizenry carries a responsibility. If they don’t like the system that their people have created, then they need to change it to a government that they want to represent them. Citizens enjoy the benefits that a government provides. They also suffer from the failures made by their government. That’s how government works.
Eleshar24
Half of the population are kids and adolescents. Half of the other half couldn't vote in 2006 when Hamas got to power, which happened in a vote that wasn't fair and while being propped by a certain ambitious politician named Benjamin Netanyahu, who (correctly) believed an islamist government will make killing Palestinians far less unpopular in the west, particularly in the USA (under Dubbya's presidency).
Eleshar24
So while I am far from insisting there should be a cease-fire (because Hamas does need to be annihilited), regular Palestinians have minimum complicity in this (and the need to annihilate Hamas is by no means a blank check for the genocidal actions Israel is conducting).
yikesaroni
hamas moonlights by providing public services and won support that way, took part in an election some time ago, killed opposing party & dissenters. its more like a violent mafia that took over rather than an actual elected party in any genuine sense
Filanwizard
The age old phrase about keeping the trains running on time and dictators almost applies
TonawandaBlue
And Israel helped them gain power by marginalizing/arresting/exiling their opposition.
RoutemasterFlash
And funneling them lots of cash from the party's leadership who are comfortably ensconced in Qatar.
RoutemasterFlash
Netanyahu is on record bragging about how he sabotaged the Oslo accords, and also explaining to his cabinet the importance of keeping Hamas in power in Gaza. Even if you were an Israeli who was concerned only with keeping Israel safe from Hamas's terrorism, he's failed abysmally, as the 7/10 attacks show - and that's before you consider his role as a genocidal would-be tyrant. He's earned himself a place in the history books as one of this century's genuine monsters.
WhyDontYouMakeMe
Taking a page straight from Escobar and Capone. Use your power and influence to protect and care for the locals, and they will protect you from the people that have treated them poorly and want you dead
TimTheEnchanter01
They also won with a plurality in 2007, 50% of current Gaza residents are under 18, so do some math.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Anyone who was old enough to vote in 2007 is now over 35 (it was 17 years ago, 17+18=35). And 75% of the population of Gaza is under 35. So 75% of the population wasn't even old enough to vote at the time.
Stargrave3000
One of the major problems in Gaza is that Hamas does not, in fact, provide public services, despite being the de facto government. Hamas won because the people were fucking tired of the hyper corrupt (but not nearly as crazy) Fatah at the time.
Pgoodso
Both Hamas and the Netanyahu coalition are essentially protection rackets that thrive when they fail at providing security enough to "prove" they were right to be in power.
PersonalityFire
Yeah, Hamas is fuckin awful. But put yourself in Palestinian shoes: does anyone else seem to give a fuck about you? Fight for you?
mycatsings
This!
GWJYonder
GOP: Go on...
tweedyone
That’s exactly what the Yakuza did in Kansai after the 1995 earthquake. The actual government took too long to help people, the mob had already been on the street giving people food and water. The police are not looked at too fondly there still.
Aseymah
so I'm still waking up and thought you said Kansas, which generated a lot of confused mental images and brainular dissonance.
tweedyone
Oh you didn’t hear about the enormous earthquake in Kansas that the Japanese Mafia helped out with? It was a pretty big deal, that’s where the rockabilly trend in Japan came from. /jk
MillerLitesaber
The mafia used similar tactics to get street-level support during American prohibition. It’s a time-tested tactic
Wolfshead009
Al Capone and his soup kitchens during the Great Depression come to mind. A lot of people will become VERY unobservant in matters of the person who is keeping them from starving.
heteroscedastic
I do think US citizens are somewhat responsible for US foreign policy. I truly do believe the USA is a democracy.
RoutemasterFlash
For decades there has been very little to choose between the Republicans and the Democrats with regards to foreign policy, and especially military policy. In a democracy where other parties barely exist, that doesn't give voters much of a real choice, does it?
Kamchatkah
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
homerinchinatown
Must say I'm a bit leery of anything that references 'elites'. Might as well include data about the influence of the 'woke mob', too...
Kamchatkah
The "Economic-Elite Domination" section of the paper explains their definition of "Elite" for you. Woke is just a right-wing buzzword with little relevance to the definition from the people from whom it was appropriated.
Neurisko
With first past the post, unrestricted corporate lobbying, a supreme court full of corrupt bribe takers, the electoral college, and rampant gerrymandering, no, we are nowhere near a democracy, sweet summer child.
Nahnahyeah
That's cool you think US citizens are so empowered.
PolishSausage42
It’s a representative democracy so me and the other 27% of people in my district/state get stuck with whatever the other 73% decided was a good idea… spoiler alert: It wasn’t a good idea.
Neurisko
But that 100% is of the people who actually bothered to vote, so at most like 38% of people made those decisions.
nemesisx00
So you're just going to ignore all the bribery? Oh, excuse me, totally legal lobbying donations?
Tajik
In that case, i have a bridge to sell you
Kamchatkah
TheSSMorgan2015
Well unfortunately you are sorely mistaken. US citizens have almost zero power to force our government to do anything.
heteroscedastic
The election of Trump, for example, is a direct reflection of the character of some large fraction of your population. No matter what shadowy support existed, it was also very clearly a popular movement. Similarly for racist policies and global dick measuring. You just personally disagree with what the people are supporting.
16bitStarbuck
Aw, that's cute.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Kamchatkah
THAT'S the one I was looking for earlier. Thank you!
Neurisko
The tail is wagging the dog.
tzahtman
The US has been a plutarchy for at least a hundred years at this point.
mksu
Basically if you think Hamas justifies the genocide of the Palestinians, then logically, the US not only deserved 9/11, but a whole lot more it has yet to suffer. We are still bombing the shit out of the Middle East with drones. You don't get to have it both ways.
TrustMeImADog
Oh, Hamas is definitely killing all of us next, don't worry.
eclyptix
Osama Bin Laden used the collective responsibility bullshit to justify 9/11. Its so gd annoying how people backing Israel learned nothing from that.
Totallynotarealbear
lets not forget we can place the existence of Al-Qaeda directly at the feet of the US government. we trained osama and his men in the 80s to kill soviets and they used that training weaponry and funding to attack us.
vnqx
There's still a massive difference between directly targeting civilians and targeting militants and having civilians get mixed up in the crossfire.
TacticalBacon2020
Sidenote, we fucking did deserve it. If they just targeted the Pentagon I'd say fair is fair.
scuuubasteve
You do if you have the drones
quietwalker
Those claims are not based on reciprocal response, but rather moral justification for violent actions that result in the safety of a people. It's the one of the reasons we put people in prison and the same argument for the death penalty; public safety.
poppypooley
The only protection against the US is to have nukes. They are bullies otherwise.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Unfortunately you do get to have it both ways, that's what power and money get you. World sucks.
graehall
That's the neat part of US Foreign Policy, for more than half a century they HAVE got to have it both ways, while claiming they're "heroes"
LewdSomnambulist
We literally armed the people that did it
doctorId
Right wing politics is almost entirely based on having it both ways
altxatu
I feel like either you support Hamas under the guise of Palestinian support, or you support Israel and whatever crimes it commits. This whole on-going conflict is shades of grey and moral ambiguity. You can support both nations right to exist, support their rights to self-defense, refuse support to terrorists, and refuse to support war crimes like targeting civilians on any side of this conflict.
Ultratoxic
If you are alright with the America/Israel relationship, then you should have no issue with China giving money and weapons to the native Americans so they can push us into reservations and exterminate us.
wfx5mwdf8z9
https://youtu.be/k2BSDLFVT74?si=MvvgFNfVdtN9GJNL
DdCno1
What genocide? The only genocidal actor in this conflict is Hamas.
EveryGOPAccusationIsActuallyAnAdmission
Have you not seen what Israel is doing in Gaza? Straight up war crimes.
zenoshogun
Also here to see what systematic war crimes are being carried out by anyone other than Hamas.
DdCno1
Which specific war crimes has Israel been committing? They are fighting in an extremely restrained fashion, still warning people before dropping bombs, upholding and protecting an evacuation corridor, providing aid, delivering fuel to hospitals, etc. Israel's conduct in this war has been absolutely exemplary. This doesn't mean that they are perfect - but that would be impossible. A 100% clean war with no civilian casualties is impossible and would be unreasonable to demand.
RoutemasterFlash
Israel has already killed about ten times as many Palestinians as Israelis were killed by Hamas in their assault a month ago. The vast majority have been civilians and a huge percentage have been children. If you think Israel is fighting in a "restrained" manner, then you're either knowingly lying, or repeated someone else's lies out of ignorance. I also have to wonder what you think *unrestrained* violence would look like - presumably carpet-bombing, if not a nuclear strike.
DdCno1
The only ones who are claiming that the "vast majority" are civilians are Hamas, through the "Gaza Ministry of Healthy", which they are running. There are no reliable numbers on how many people are killed in Gaza and Hamas stopped distinguishing between civilian and military deaths after noticing in the past that it was in fact not a majority of civilians dying and that they needed to present the numbers in an ambiguous fashion in order to build up international pressure against Israel.
RoutemasterFlash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#By_the_Israeli_government
LoudBirb
Using white phosphorous, collective punishment, and ignoring proportionality in bombing strikes. Here's some examples from the UN: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/damning-evidence-war-crimes-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-gaza-enar
LoudBirb
White phosphorous: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon-enar
Arkandos
Not to mention decades of genocide!
DdCno1
Is that why the Palestinian population has grown faster than the Israeli population?
This must be the least effective genocide in history. Look up numbers from actual genocides before callously throwing this word around in a situation where it does not apply at all.
10dees
People on here really don't like you posting numbers & factual information that gets in the way of their highly charged emotional narrative.
Arkandos
poutinemontreal
I said it in a coffee shop 2h after 9/11 to someone who said "we dont deserve that !" Yeah ? we have a full history of messing other countries up and bombing them for fun, you dont think that at some point we gonna get hit too ? It is tragic and sad ? yes. But we clearly deserve it.
AceOfShovels
I always say we "earned" 9/11, meaning the nation earned it. The people whose lives were destroyed never deserved it though, and all citizens have no right to be angry at anyone but US leadership. They provided fertile ground for extremists to flourish and gain following. And Israel has done the same to Palestinians.
parkway
Hasan is that you?
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I don't think the US necessarily "deserved" it, but they absolutely asked for it.
KoalaOnTheJuice
That was brave of you but I had a similar thought. Maybe not "deserve", since it should never happen, but "provoke" for sure.
Totallynotarealbear
"im not saying i condone it, just saying.... i understand!"
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
How many Vietnamese people died, again? (This is a fun horror-lesson you can share with your friends and loved ones!)
LaronX
The people, the families didn't deserve it. It however was a consequence of actions taken by the nation they lived in.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
Innocent people don't deserve to die. An eye for an eye, the whole world blind and all.
MyNameIsBadSorry
Correct, but tell that to the people that have the bombs. They clearly don't care about being fair.
howcanyourunwithanarrowinyourknee
“In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king…”
reineseele
"...and as long as we are the ones with one eye we are the winners."-Republican 101
Ultratoxic
Perhaps "deserve" isn't the right word. But every effect has a cause. You don't get 14 adults to take over planes and crash then into buildings in a vacuum. There was a chain of events that lead up to 9/11 and most of them were the US inviting themselves into an area, taking the resources, and bombing anyone that disagreed. Imagine if the situations were reversed. What would Americans do? If they didn't have their giant military?
ahorseelbowdeepinme
What word would you use instead of deserve
Ultratoxic
"were the unfortunate victims of a completely expected and fully provoked retaliatory attack"
vegivamp
Deserve. Not the individuals, but the nation. The nation that keeps biting in these warhawk fuckwads who stick the nation's fugly nose everywhere it doesn't belong, typically because some commercial interest doesn't like the way a place is governed.
Did you know that the US is literally the reason the word "banana republic" exists?
RoutemasterFlash
Who is "we", though? The people on those planes and in those buildings hadn't spent decades dictating US foreign policy, had they?
RobberBaronsBad
"We" is the US government. No individuals deserved to die for the sins of our leaders, but the political entity known as "The United States of America" deserved 9/11
RoutemasterFlash
OK, but I can imagine "We deserved that" going down pretty poorly in the US in the wake of 9/11 if you haven't made that distinction clear...
RobberBaronsBad
You could say the same for literally every headline, short statement, or slogan in existence. You can take the words at face value and get mad, or you can ask more questions to understand the intent behind the statement.