poochyena
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Jul 26, 2026 7:49 PM
poochyena
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TheMoonBnuuy
there WAS... a long time ago... the Black Plague...
The concept of a quarantine was invented because of the Black Plague and quarantining everything coming into a country was one of the way they got a handle on the plague... Some countries closing their borders entirely was how they dealt with it.
But there isn't a plague now, so there's no real reason.
LifeIsADanceOfMinds
I have an argument: Let's say our country ('1') has resource 'X', and country '2' wants it. The resource is anything you name, including land. Let's say that country '2' has many people that are related to people in '1'. Let us also say that after a year the visitors from '2' persuade the leadership of '1' to change laws to favour '2'. (this could be intimidation, or any other method).
Open borders would not allow proper vetting. There is no Zenophobia, nor Racism. It is all about resources.
poochyena
Not too sure what you're saying. Changing laws to favor countries is something thats already very common.
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
It usually comes down to a fear of "limited resources" (with the unspoken reason being that it's easier to define yourself as better than others if you have a line in the sand to point at). However the limited resources bit overlooks how scarcity is typically something that is enforced rather than naturally occuring
spontaneous9
Yep.
RedDeadPrevention
I played the xenophobia in my high school marching band. Everyone else hated it.
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1a3psc2kwdnNxN2JudDVhcDhsbnh2bjd3aXcwNjFlczJvNzdxaHVleCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/agwRgmVDJceZO/200w.webp
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poochyena
Open boarders increases multi-culturalism, which is a huge benefit to a country. It generates a free workforce, as the government did not have to spend 12+ years paying to educate them before they enter the workforce. It increases equality, as people from oppressive countries can move to less oppressive countries.
evolution4407
This, so much! The preservation of cultures argument is such bunk because borders actually pressure us place nationality over ethnicity or culture.
HRHLordDonkeyPunch
FYI, VVV is a raging Nazi-simp/all-around bigoted piece of shit. Block them now before they can reply with a tirade of hateful bullshit.
69Voltage
Wrong. Just off the top of my head……..
Not enough vital services and infrastructure(housing, health care, employment, etc.)
Would overwhelm the already taxed pre-college education system
Would put even more pressure on services that help the needy
Too many want to harm the US and its people, vetting is necessary
poochyena
Can you expand on that? How would those thing be strained by open boarders? How many people can move to the US without those systems being strained?
69Voltage
What I wrote is very self-explanatory, not difficult to grasp at all
poochyena
Its not. We already have population growth today and there is no limit in resources to expand our infrastructure.
StarSumiaki
I guess? I don't necessarily disagree with borders having some semblance of awareness of worldly situations and some mechanism for validating inbound individuals if there's a reason to be concerned. But no matter how "fair" you try to engineer that process, it's nonetheless inherently discriminatory.
Ultimately, I guess the question is how to build up a society that can mitigate problems in real-time, rather than collectively punishing migration/travel to avoid issues that may not even happen.
Chereazi
It's a resource management problem. Completely open just won't happen, with certain quotas maybe. Would it then possible if all countries would work together and have unified standards? Yes. Like Europe, kind of open borders within the EU, but still with a strict set of regulations.
Is it possible in the pretty damn divided planet we got right now? No.
Simple solutions for complex issues don't usually exist, anyone trying to sell you simple solutions is scamming you.
poochyena
Why would it be a resource management problem? Is there a resource the US is lacking?
Chereazi
With unlimited uncontrolled migration?
Infrastrukture. Services. Housing. Food (generally supply lines). Energy. Roads etc
Shit just doesn't scale up because you want it to, hell, lots of it barely works enough for the people in the country right now, and isn't stuff you just fix and scale in a year. How many years now do states keep having blackouts for example?
poochyena
What do you mean "Shit just doesn't scale up"? We've been scaling up since the inception of the country!
Blackouts are incredibly rare and usually caused by nature or lack of maintenance, not population growth.
Chereazi
At a very small and steady rate. Heavily controlled. Which is exactly the point. It doesn't scale up because you want it to. It takes time, money, and planning for a known consumer base. Don't do that and you're risking a brownout.
Incredibly rare my ass, and did you see all the places they heavily campaigned for people to turn down their AC? That's not because of environmental concerns, that's because they know the grid can't handle that shit. That's not "things randomly break", that's "the 1/
Chereazi
damn thing can't handle the load".
Same with other supply lines. Trains etc to deliver goods. Water pipelines etc etc, none of that is in any way designed for uncontrolled population growth.
Again, there's no simple solutions for complex issues, you're just forgetting to include 99% of the picture in your idea.
canigifinpaint
Does any country in the world have open borders?
Radix865
Technically the shengen area with itself, which is most of Europe.
JackHL01
some non far right fuckers want to close them down(ish) to try and get back voters from the far right. it is, was and will always be a stupid fucking "idea"!
Zeeall
Nope. Literally does not exist.
Vebrandsson
I feel like there's some need for customs and the control of foreign plants and wildlife entering a country since invasive species can do a lot of harm. There's also some value in wanting to know who is coming and going especially if they have warrants for their arrest in a given country they are entering or leaving. There's also the potential need to quarantine people that have been places that may have exposed them too certain contagions.
poochyena
But that has little to do with immigration since US citizens can and do travel internationally and bring back plants and wildlife.
Vebrandsson
My personal experience traveling abroad is that they're kinda picky about what you bring back. That being said having open borders (free un restricted travel across borders) and having an open immigration policy (allowing anyone to immigrate for any reason) are not exactly the same thing. I can only imagine how terrible a job the averafe bureaucracy would handle people being able to come into a country and just exist there with no documentation at all. That doesn't sound manageable.
poochyena
Open boarders doesn't mean no laws.
HeresYourSauce
I'm in very much in favor of open borders, but I'm not sure I agree with the puffin. (Probably makes it a good puffin tbh.)
Open borders adds a lot of pressure on bureaucratic systems and infrastructure. It takes time to build new infrastructure, housing, roads. It's hard to tax a population that has a truly open border, and hard to define citizenship. Then if the population that's coming in is broke, it'll take time before they can start paying into the system.
1/2
poochyena
"it wouldn't be easy" is not a valid argument against something to me.
HeresYourSauce
It's not an argument I'm making.
The argument I'm making is that it is 'a' reason that's not racism or xenophobia.
HeresYourSauce
We are rich enough to weather the costs, and historically "Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." was a key part of our success. But I can see some teething issues, not at all associated with race or xenophobia.
(I will also say that in practice our immigration policies are/were set up to promote an american culture, and promote xenophobia, and racism.)
Eddyrock
Hmmm… I’m not sure that works.
I agree that the vast majority of arguments for reducing access to the US is indeed just thinly veiled xenophobia.
There’s also definitely a need to monitor a border.
For example; There are ecological and environmental issues to consider when just allowing people full roam.
I personally wish more was done to keep invasive species of plants and animals out, but then again I just wish more consideration was given for the environment in general.
poochyena
Open boarders would still allow port of entry checks to ensure no invasive plants or animals are brought in. That doesn't even relate specifically to immigration, thats just a general international travel thing.
Eddyrock
Ok, it seems I misunderstood your argument.
bippityboppitybuttsex
OK, here's one, I don't want people who mean to do us harm entering the country without a background check.... I want to make sure other countries aren't dumping their convicted murderers and rapists on our shores (cheaper to deport to the US them than to house them in prisons).
I just want basic vetting, what is their criminal history, are they associated with groups that want to harm others, are they associated with Jeffrey Epstein in some way).
poochyena
Open borders doesn't mean human trafficking becomes legal, which is what you describe with countries dumping people here.
ImJustHereAtThisPoint
I don't think anyone that promotes open borders has ever said "fuck it, don't check anything or anyone"
bippityboppitybuttsex
I assumed a binary state of 'open'...
TBH, that described the US prior to 1924.... if you could get your ass to the US, you were allowed in and they didn't check shit (other than if you had TB).
salunatics
mksu
I think it's important to distinguish between arguments that are inherently racist/xenophobic and ones that are only in practice. The racism and xenophobia in the argument isn't usually the argument itself, at least in its more "polite" forms, but rather how it's applied and the inability of people to correctly identify who is an issue. A culture that's broadly accepting of LGBT people may reasonably not want tons of violently homophobic people moving in for economic opportunities, for instance.
poochyena
Why would tons of violently homophobic people move to a country that openly allows homosexuality? The US isn't the only country with jobs.
mksu
I wasn't talking about any country in particular. The US specifically is not particularly tolerant of LGBT people and is in fact the source of a lot of violently homophobic people.
Regardless, if one country has open borders and the rest don't, that's the easiest country to get into. People seeking "a better life" often do not have the means to be accepted on a long-term basis in other prosperous countries, as they're quite selective about who is let in. They'll go where they can.
poochyena
I don't think violently homophobic people would view moving to a country that openly allows and embraces homosexuality as moving to a better life. How many homophobic poor southern rural white republicans do you think are moving to Los Angeles?
mksu
It's debatable if Los Angeles even represents a better economic opportunity for the yokel in question, who is also in an awkward position where they probably can't really afford to move and also still have enough that they can't afford to just walk away from it all either. This is in no way, shape, or form comparable to the sorts of situations people leave behind when they're desperate enough to cross a desert and sneak into a country that's openly hostile to them.
poochyena
If a homophobic poor southern rural white republican can't even move within his own country, what makes you think homophobic poor conservatives in other countries will not only move here, but move in such large numbers as to have huge cultural influence?
ThePartyLeader
So people should just be able to commit crimes then cross borders and live a full life
NM156
If you mean Texans, then I approve!
evolution4407
Some people commit crimes and then get elected President of the United States. ... Twice.
poochyena
Crime would still be illegal with open borders.
ThePartyLeader
???
Yes but if you are wanted for a crime they would stop you at the border.... Not so for open borders
poochyena
Warrants don't just disappear the moment you cross a border. Maybe some small-time warrants wouldn't be pursued, but generally, if you are wanted for a serious crime in one country and somehow sneak into another country, you will still be a wanted criminal and be arrested in the country you escaped to.
ThePartyLeader
Or.... Ooorrr we could just check for criminal records at a border.
poochyena
So you want to end visa-free entry into the US? ~70 million people enter the US each year, most are visa-free. I'd imagine requiring a visa/background check is gonna hurt the tourist industry.
Unless you want to try to explain why visa-free entry is ok for visitors but not ok for immigrants.
ElbowDeepInABlackhole
As much as I despise Trump and hid admin, and what they’re doing. I don’t just want unverified people coming in, that opens a can of worms that extra exposes the country to terrorism, we have terrorism at home, we don’t need help. It will also strain healthcare, subsidies for families, will increase an already alarming homeless issue around the country. And so much more.
poochyena
Why do you believe an immigrant is more likely to be a terrorist than someone born here?
How would it strain healthcare and subsidies? Do you think immigrants are more likely to not work and pay taxes?
ElbowDeepInABlackhole
To be clear, I am not opposed to any immigration at all. America is built on the backs, and by immigrants. My issue is if we have too loose a border policy, then people with forged documents, bad intentions, etc etc start to make their way in. I think balance is important, we don’t want to be where we are currently with the pedo in chief, but also not just letting people in without proper visa and checks.
poochyena
Do you believe foreigners are more dangerous than people who were born in the US?
If you say no, then what is the difference between someone entering the country through birth vs someone entering through immigration?
ElbowDeepInABlackhole
Nobody said anything about any of that. I literally said I am NOT against immigration, just not lax immigration. There are people in the world who would do terrible things to this country, we already have enough with ICE, after Trump we will have to work to fix his doings, it will take time. I didn’t say immigrants are more dangerous, you’re just twisting words so you can be weird about shit.
poochyena
If people born in the US are equally as dangerous as people born outside of the US, why have two different standards for the two groups? Why do we need limits on immigration, but no limits on births?