I baby the hull too much to ever tie anything directly to it. I could use a bumper for the keel to use when there’s a chance of colliding with drifting waste though.
This guy is like all the "leadership" at the place I work at. All these bozos are just busy sustaining the gravy train with their bullshit while they're looting big salaries and bonuses year on year. Fuck these cunts.
You know, the company behind all your favo- *HRRRRRRRCK* ………..oh, jeeze, no, even sarcastically I couldn’t finish that sentence without having an aneurysm.
I mean if what Microsoft does ship is any indication, he may be 100% correct that not shipping anything was a better decision. I can't fucking fathom what *doesn't* make the cut.
Pushing a product to market. So he worked on a products' development, but the product never got completed and was not sold or used. The term shipped comes from the physical storage media era. As they had to actually ship the software off to the manufacture so they could produce the disks with it. And at that point your code was your code and couldn't be changed. So when you shipped it, it was done.
I work for a wealthy person who owns many boats and used own a proper yacht (which he was veeeeeeeerrrry proud of). They are OBSESSED with the lengths of their boats. Every time they mention their toys to someone else they have to specify how long they are. It's hilarious and sad and infuriating.
No doubt some truth in that but I think you are missing a little context. If someone told another boater they were sailing around the world, the first question would be in what sized boat because that makes a huge difference in open water.
Unpopular opinion but I think Microsoft is way more influential than Apple in design terms. They basically popularised flat design and Apple followed. Even Windows XP had a huge impact on web design when it launched.
So following his career (https://uxdx.com/blog/michael-gough-interview/) he does UX design and ended up at Adobe as they purchased Macromedia while he was working there - and spent almost 13 years there. He went from Adobe to Microsoft because he wanted to make a difference before realising that the impact of his changes would be unlikely to make a better product in the timeframe (<3 years) he was there. Is admitting he is wrong really such a bad thing?
On top of that, his wealth was generated by his labor, not through investment. Nobody who makes their money by selling their labor is part of the problem.
In some companies that's a huge part of the corporate culture, unfortunately: ensuring job security by promoting/maintaining shitty practices and playing one's execs/superiors/whatever for office politick rather than productivity. Also, an astounding number of people are simply lazy, and content to leech forever rather than be proud of their work.
To your last point, it can be both things. I feel I am lazy, and I'm content in the position I'm in (customer service), and I'm quietly proud of the work I do.
The mega rich have never shown a willingness to make life better for those below them people like him will cut a job if that means a slightly bigger bonus just a shame he cut whoever was updating is linkedin.
I mean, respect for him going along with it. He was willing to poke fun at himself in front of everyone. Not a lot of people in those top positions are humble enough to let that happen.
He's a (multi-)millionaire who's out of the business and doesn't need to suck up to anyone. It's easy to be critical of "the system" and "the execs" when you're in that position. Much more difficult to do when you're a lowly programmer or even a mid-level exec still in the middle of their career. Despite their talk of "disruption" and "talking truth to power", most large tech companies don't really like to hear innovative ideas or criticisms of how they do things, certainly not from within.
How does one get so lucky to be the head of a company, and then easily continue that lifestyle in other companies? It's like a trophy fell on his lap, and then he kept getting trophies for the first trophy. How does someone break into and have the opportunity for the first role?
Some people fail upwards. Or just pure luck. It's an extremely common misconception that the smarter you are, the higher you'll rise in the corporate ladder.
And once you're at that level, no matter how poorly you "manage", you get easily rehired because it's easy to hire someone who has already achieved that level. Even if you're a complete train wreck.
Hiring the former CDO of Nike is the HR equivalent of "Nobody Ever Got Fired For Buying Microsoft"
Got a coworker who outworks everyone else but cant politic for shit, guy gets stunned when his extrawork and favors arent enough to advance then spirals which makes it even harder for him to go higher. But when ive told him why his goto is "but it shouldnt be that way", ya sure he is right but he doesnt set the rules...
If ya spazzing out at work are being told stuff like "cant work with others" or "others feel uncomfortable around you" i suggest ya start politicking real hard or disappear into your work for a few months/years till ya remake your rep. Hr isnt there for you its there to manage you.
Everyone knows a person that interviews really well while knowing just the bare minimum or putting in the bare minimum. Its the same thing dailed up to fuckyouimakefuckyoumoney.
Lesson is, be that guy but also be able to do more that the bare minimum to stay ahead.
Lol id listen to my own advice but im a nihilistic absurdist so weee.
They're bagging on the guy, but he sounds like the guy that said "no" when stupid ideas were greenlit, worked on, and he finally got a say at the end. You'd be amazed at how compartmentalized some companies are. To where someone's working on something "big" w/o you knowing about it. Then they show up at the last minute "oh, btw, we also need to include this into the next roll out". And a guy like this goes "wtf is this? This is awful. We're not shipping this." During Ballmer's tenure at MS 1/
there was immense pressure to just "ship it". Vista came out. Was a hot mess. He does an interview saying "I don't know why companies aren't upgrading. It's perfect as is". Then a massive patch rolls out. Windows 8 introduced the "ship it" award at MS where dept's were awarded for just rolling shit out. Ballmer's reign was fraught with bad updates, rushed versions, etc. All to make a buck. You need someone like the guy in the audience to say "no" and take the flak for it./
Everything about Microsoft makes me wish there was a valid (valid! don't say Linux!) mass-market alternative option for PC OS's besides Apple. They've gotten way, way too comfortable with their monopoly and it leads to shit like this.
Lol nope, just had to get rid of my Chrome os laptop because Chrome outlawed UBlock. Only ways to get it back was to install Linux or use the app version of Firefox (Which was a horrible experience)
Some people don’t understand what joke is. Also some people feel the need to downvote something funny that they don’t understand. Hopefully yall find kindness in your life’s eventually. I’ve heard it gets lonely for the trolls.
This! I've been a Microsoft user since DOS 3.30A. Recently, my work laptop started having hardware problems, so my employer shipped me a new one and that one, unfortunately, comes with Windows 11. Words cannot describe how shitty it is.
"I wish there was a valid alternative" "dont suggest the obvious alternative that is perfectly valid and mature, I heard from a friend that knows stuff that it isn't valid because he couldn't get it to work over a decade ago". You clearly won't try any alternative until it has already replaced windows as the default...
Literally just installed bazzite Linux on my new laptop so i could have steamos built in for game compatibility, it is a less user friendly Linux in terms of really available community for questions and it's still easy as piss to use. Linux has almost 1:1 familiarity in terms of desktop operation to Windows. Pretending Linux is too complicated for the average person is lazy and outdated
Sadly, "easy as piss to use" still isn't good enough for mass adoption — and I say this as an Ubuntu user. Linux is the car that requires you to know how engines work in order to drive it, at least for many common use cases. If you just want to use a word processor or web browser, you're fine. Designing stuff professionally? Want both speakers to always work? You're either out of luck or need to tinker.
I won't pretend to be an expert on Linux but I've never had an issue finding what i need installing it and it just working. You don't need any advanced or secret knowledge.
Also the vast majority of work done on computers is just using the web and using Excel/word/email.
Pretending any of this is behind some complex mechanisms does nothing for open source adoption. If you truly struggle to use design software or get sounds out of your speakers this isn't a Linux issue
Linux is completely valid. 20 year old laptop, ubuntu, rock n roll. Libre office, inkscape, Firefox, Thunderbird. You rule the digital world for $100. And it will never tell you that your hardware isn't supported for the next release and support for this release ends in a month and a week after that, you will be hacked.
The main issue is the availability of software and drivers. While everything is built to run in a Windows environment, more often than not, a version for Linux is missing. In the case of drivers, it means only basic usage of your hardware (or, in some cases, non at all) and for software it means you might not be able to run your favorite tool without an emulator (extra steps) Both issues from Linux' low market share and at the same time are very the reason for the low market share. 1/
So, in a few words: Linux isn't valid because it isn't seen as valid. Sounds stupid and kinda is. Microsoft invests enormous amounts of money to keep corporations and especially governments from switching to Linux - and then charge ridiculously high subscription and licencing fees, which dwarf the aforementioned costs. If any bigger government or big corp would switch, it'll create a demand for drivers/software for Linux, thus boost its validity, and therefore crush the windows monopoly.
It's not very user friendly, but it is getting better. It is made by geeks for other geeks to do geeky stuff, so being able to use out of the box is just not as big a priority. Plus games and a lot of software just isn't built for it yet, but it is getting better. It's worth figuring out how to use a bit and keeping a flash drive around; most distros can run easily off of a USB. There's issues that Linux can handle where your main windows install might be inoperable (i.e. corruption in hd)
This is the bit as to why I don't consider it a viable mass-market option, at least not yet. I'm not worried about us geeks; I'm thinking of the millions of other use cases where people need something that just works out of the box, without needing to explain what a "distro" is and why they're important.
Best guess? Giving the benefit of the doubt, I'd say they've encountered a lot of issues with individuals who have no.idea what they are talking about. Otherwise, they have no idea what they are talking about. But that's not for me to say,
Linux as an Operating System is absolutely a valid alternative. The EU is making a huge push towards Linux based environments. As for the Microsoft and Apple Ecosystems, i will say that they aren't as up to par with the all-in-one application but there 1/2
Because most of the software regular users care about doesn't work at all, or only works with advanced knowledge they don't have.
Linux is fantastic if you use your computer for work. Even if it's creative work. There are distros that work almost like windows and are pretty simple to learn.
But if you only have a computer for games, and the games you want to play don't work on Linux, then Linux isn't a valid answer.
That's why I use Win 10. (And about to go back to 7 because of fucking AI.)
Usually an open source solution that can be implemented. A good example of this is Libre office. It's obviously not Microsoft office, but it gets the job done.
Ultimately, to answer your question, your confusion is valid, Linux is a Valid operating system if you are willing to learn it the same way anyone had to learn the OS flavor of their choice.
Libre office does the standalone tasks not bad (except for Excel, there is literally no alternative to Excel) but if you consider Office as a collaboration suite that it is - there is nothing in the spitting distance of it, unfortunately.
Linux is valid, Android is written on Linux, as are a bunch of niche operating systems for 3d printers and CNC machines and stuff. It's just not out-of-the-box compatible with a lot of the stuff we consider standard for a PC, like wireless peripherals and video games. It also requires some "advanced usership" to update and install support for those things. But for Internet browsing and doing work? Linux is great. Very stable, very little bloat.
Saying it isn't out of the box compatible with stuff people consider standard is wild. I've been daily driving for over 2 years and have yet to plug something in that it doesn't recognize and work immediately. Most of my peripherals were easier to setup in Linux than in windows... And I game every day, most games I play run as good or better under proton than they did in windows.
There was a period in my life during which I periodically got pissed off at Microsoft and decide to give Linux a try as my main OS. Every single time, I ended up going back to Windows because I found myself digging through Internet discussions and obscure docs trying to get it to do what I can accomplish by installing a couple of programs on Windows. Yesterday, I was forced to start using Win11 at work and I was feeling tempted to try Linux on my home box. Your comment dissuaded me. Thanks!
Yeah, that's what usually stops me too. I used various distros of ubuntoo, red hat, etc when I was still coding and was like "hey I should use Linux on my main PC". And then I was like "I would like to print to this network printer than my school hosts" and seven grep searches later I was like "nevermind, fuck this"
As the old saying goes, Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. Even the more user-friendly flavours require more setup and upkeep than windows or macOS does.
This only true if you pick niche or more secure variants ... If you just go install vanilla Ubuntu and use what's there out of the box it's dead easy no maintenance, my non-nerd wife uses it just fine But if you're like me and try to get all the secure shit going or fancy customization stuff then yup tons of time burned into but it's kind of a hobby on purpose that way
That hasn't been true for a decade. Setup and upkeep are both much faster and smoother than Windows and MacOS nowadays, largely thanks to enshittification of those corporate entities' systems where you're encouraged or forced to set up a cloud account, etc. Most Linux OS updates don't require a reboot, most program software ("app") updates don't even require a restart of a running program, and in general the OS and its utilities just stay the hell out of your way, unlike modern crapware.
The comment above is about the OS and its builtin capabilities. While I don't disagree with you re: the experience beyond that, your comment would apply to very proprietary things like video games or certain hardware interfaces more than a web browser, office suite, photo viewer/editor, etc. and that is largely because the developers of that especially-proprietary software and hardware that don't work well (or at all) simply choose to make it so. That's no fault of the OS, distro, or user.
This hasn't been true for a number of years. The real problem is fragmentation. Some distros are very user friendly, and some arent. I taught my 70yr old mother to use Fedora and she didnt have any problems.
My mom doesn't just use a web browser. She uses email clients, word processors, games, etc. If you are working at a system level then user-friendliness isn't what you want and you would choose whichever system you want. This isn't about that, its about every-day users. And in my experience, windows offers just as many problems with hardware. Tbh, i haven't had a problem with hardware on linux in years. You don't buy mac hardware to run on windows, why wouldn't you check compatibility?
Lol I literally set my grandmother up with Linux a few years ago. Two icons on the desktop, one labeled "Chat" and the other labelled "Internet" going to Pidgin and Firefox. Zero support calls. Of course, now it's easier to just give them a Chromebook for that, which is... Linux, too.
Only because of their familiarity with the preexisting dominant alternatives, I think? If they had not already learned Windows or MacOS, Linux is probably at least as intuitive, especially because they're less "busy" with fewer UI elements and UX quirks to (re)learn.
ActualTttony
Not shipping sales, sailing ships
WellWellWellLookWhoItIs
I just want to know what best product it was that didn’t ship.
drgonzo67
At least he's not the guy in charge of The Ribbon. That person needs to circumnavigate the world tied to the hull of a 50' sailboat...
cloverleafbane
I baby the hull too much to ever tie anything directly to it. I could use a bumper for the keel to use when there’s a chance of colliding with drifting waste though.
TODAYSNUMBERIS
Rich people eh?
kublaikhan
They pair well with garlic.
bohjeenie
It’s a who’s who of pays the most so you can grift them for money. Perpetually ship nothing. (Ie, take zero risks, never fail)z
You then use the long list of prestigious companies to get another one frothing at the gash to ‘headhunt’ you.
You can then extrapolate that technique all senior managers / CEOs.
Recruiters still fall for it today.
“They couldn’t have worked at all these big companies if there were doing bad work, so we won’t spend time digging too much, hire now!”
bohjeenie
As a mid level employee at these gargantuan firms, I respect the game.
Nothing you create will make a positive impact, so just grab the loose change from Gates et al’s pockets and fuck off on your boat.
It’s the only escape path for regular plebeians in this corpo-apocalypse.
16KTS
Microsoft the worst job Adobe the best job.
pan069
This guy is like all the "leadership" at the place I work at. All these bozos are just busy sustaining the gravy train with their bullshit while they're looting big salaries and bonuses year on year. Fuck these cunts.
sinnfinn86
I'm kind of surprised a guy at his "level" has a sense of humor.
stonecoldstevebuschemi
PowerPedant
I there a full version of this?
diselage
Like Adobe, it'll be 49.99 a month
MarsIsAfire
OP seems to be the full version. But here's a YT link in case you want to poke around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRL1Wk3aG3k
PowerPedant
Thanks!
amp99
He didn't ship much, but he does sail.
profloyo
“ Can he do that last thing? Nah, that ship has sailed”
RhymingEverything
Waved goodbye and didn't harbor resentment
13andido
SAIL!
kahooki
knudude
So does this guy :
v
blessedarethecheesemakers
It’s a schooner!
ChrisCorona
My friend wants to know what the hell this is about, some context? And what is all the discussion about how much you shipped? Friend thanks you.
RuffyRuffHausen
Microsoft AND Adobe? Oh, boy...
Septcanmat
You know, the company behind all your favo- *HRRRRRRRCK* ………..oh, jeeze, no, even sarcastically I couldn’t finish that sentence without having an aneurysm.
FussyZeus
I mean if what Microsoft does ship is any indication, he may be 100% correct that not shipping anything was a better decision. I can't fucking fathom what *doesn't* make the cut.
CurbYourClassWar
Nightmare fuel
SeeJenJen
And Nike and Uber!
Throwawayaccountnumbernegativethree
It's like a who's who of who's the worst!
ExceptFluffyDuck
Look up Thomas Midgley Jr. ...
shankelstoff
What a fucking tool
weavyweavees365
I think I can infer the meaning from context, but can someone explain what "ship" means in tech corpo speak?
Problemwoodchuck
To ship=complete a project.
Targe0
Pushing a product to market.
So he worked on a products' development, but the product never got completed and was not sold or used.
The term shipped comes from the physical storage media era. As they had to actually ship the software off to the manufacture so they could produce the disks with it. And at that point your code was your code and couldn't be changed. So when you shipped it, it was done.
CorgisButtsDriveMeNuts
What is this: 3 comedians vs the crowd? Pretty weird concept.
Guy is pretty good sport about it all.
Also, fuck linkedin, it's worse than facebook.
MantisTobagganMD
I work for a wealthy person who owns many boats and used own a proper yacht (which he was veeeeeeeerrrry proud of). They are OBSESSED with the lengths of their boats. Every time they mention their toys to someone else they have to specify how long they are. It's hilarious and sad and infuriating.
ChrisCorona
No doubt some truth in that but I think you are missing a little context. If someone told another boater they were sailing around the world, the first question would be in what sized boat because that makes a huge difference in open water.
bobthefunny
His entry for "Worst Job in the Audience" is one that let him buy a 50' boat and circumnavigate the world...
beoff
Unpopular opinion but I think Microsoft is way more influential than Apple in design terms. They basically popularised flat design and Apple followed. Even Windows XP had a huge impact on web design when it launched.
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
in the early days it was give-and-take - early Windows was made fun of for borrowing from Macintosh, and IIRC there was a bit of Xerox Alto in both
beoff
True, true
ByThePowerOfSCIENCE
Truth is, all this talk of who copied whom is bunk; ideas are a dime a dozen and good implementation matters way more.
UsuallyARabbit
From my experience at Microsoft, “didnt ship as a designer” - yes, obviously and not his fault
Makerofthingsmasherofstuff
I have to remember that he is not the problem. We have set up a system where this kind of thinking is absolutely allowed.
It makes me quite frustrated because I have worked with people like this. I also left those places because I can't stand it.
Hmffff
I worked enough in this damn life to know that the highest pay comes with the least amount of work. Example:
£100k / year for 2 hours a week of work in HMRC. And that's a very low salary considering the standards these days. But still fuck. https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1bm1nY3F0dTg2eWRuaTQzOHRzaGMzenEwcWlzcHZtYXB4MGIzdDN2OCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/hsxHqVGqz4vxg5N7xb/200w.webp
SheepySleepySmuggler
So following his career (https://uxdx.com/blog/michael-gough-interview/) he does UX design and ended up at Adobe as they purchased Macromedia while he was working there - and spent almost 13 years there. He went from Adobe to Microsoft because he wanted to make a difference before realising that the impact of his changes would be unlikely to make a better product in the timeframe (<3 years) he was there. Is admitting he is wrong really such a bad thing?
DirectorFury
On top of that, his wealth was generated by his labor, not through investment. Nobody who makes their money by selling their labor is part of the problem.
SyllogismeJazz
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlOXZocnQwczZlM21iNmlhejlzb2pwdWNreTZyYnV0eHZ5NmVxZWMzOCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/giphy.mp4
dingofdong
I feel like the problem isn't just that it's allowed, so much as it's kinda actively incentivised by the system
Neurisko
As long as the board is happy, anything goes, including 9-digit salaries and mass pollution and murder.
Jandegrote
I mean he is not the cause of the problem but he is very happy for that problem to never ever be fixed and will work against any fixes.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
I think it's too far to say he will work against any fixes. It may be true, but we have no indication about that.
I think a great many people would be happy to be paid loads of money for whatever executives actually do.
dantetsaronis
In some companies that's a huge part of the corporate culture, unfortunately: ensuring job security by promoting/maintaining shitty practices and playing one's execs/superiors/whatever for office politick rather than productivity. Also, an astounding number of people are simply lazy, and content to leech forever rather than be proud of their work.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
To your last point, it can be both things. I feel I am lazy, and I'm content in the position I'm in (customer service), and I'm quietly proud of the work I do.
Jandegrote
The mega rich have never shown a willingness to make life better for those below them people like him will cut a job if that means a slightly bigger bonus just a shame he cut whoever was updating is linkedin.
berlinson
Microsoft has designers?
bottledham
He's a good sport about it. Clearly has enough money not to care anymore
ndr2d2
Dude's a pretty good sport and gives almost as good as he gets!
SacrificialClam
Im bery attracted to the guy in the middle
MantisTobagganMD
Ok
otterkrylon
No fucking wonder both companies products look and work like crap
Targe0
I mean, respect for him going along with it.
He was willing to poke fun at himself in front of everyone.
Not a lot of people in those top positions are humble enough to let that happen.
drgonzo67
He's a (multi-)millionaire who's out of the business and doesn't need to suck up to anyone. It's easy to be critical of "the system" and "the execs" when you're in that position. Much more difficult to do when you're a lowly programmer or even a mid-level exec still in the middle of their career. Despite their talk of "disruption" and "talking truth to power", most large tech companies don't really like to hear innovative ideas or criticisms of how they do things, certainly not from within.
Targe0
Yes, but a lot of the people who get to that level often tend to also have the most delicate of inflated egos.
DrankTooMuchMead
How does one get so lucky to be the head of a company, and then easily continue that lifestyle in other companies? It's like a trophy fell on his lap, and then he kept getting trophies for the first trophy. How does someone break into and have the opportunity for the first role?
LordHelmetTheThird
Some people fail upwards. Or just pure luck. It's an extremely common misconception that the smarter you are, the higher you'll rise in the corporate ladder.
And once you're at that level, no matter how poorly you "manage", you get easily rehired because it's easy to hire someone who has already achieved that level. Even if you're a complete train wreck.
Hiring the former CDO of Nike is the HR equivalent of "Nobody Ever Got Fired For Buying Microsoft"
datphone777365
Got a coworker who outworks everyone else but cant politic for shit, guy gets stunned when his extrawork and favors arent enough to advance then spirals which makes it even harder for him to go higher. But when ive told him why his goto is "but it shouldnt be that way", ya sure he is right but he doesnt set the rules...
DrankTooMuchMead
I'm a lot like this guy. I've become the grunt, and I have been talking to HR about it.
datphone777365
If ya spazzing out at work are being told stuff like "cant work with others" or "others feel uncomfortable around you" i suggest ya start politicking real hard or disappear into your work for a few months/years till ya remake your rep. Hr isnt there for you its there to manage you.
DrankTooMuchMead
I haven't heard that. But I was getting bullied a lot by my supervisor.
datphone777365
Politicking, no really thats it.
Everyone knows a person that interviews really well while knowing just the bare minimum or putting in the bare minimum. Its the same thing dailed up to fuckyouimakefuckyoumoney.
Lesson is, be that guy but also be able to do more that the bare minimum to stay ahead.
Lol id listen to my own advice but im a nihilistic absurdist so weee.
sadurdaynight
They're bagging on the guy, but he sounds like the guy that said "no" when stupid ideas were greenlit, worked on, and he finally got a say at the end. You'd be amazed at how compartmentalized some companies are. To where someone's working on something "big" w/o you knowing about it. Then they show up at the last minute "oh, btw, we also need to include this into the next roll out". And a guy like this goes "wtf is this? This is awful. We're not shipping this." During Ballmer's tenure at MS 1/
sadurdaynight
there was immense pressure to just "ship it". Vista came out. Was a hot mess. He does an interview saying "I don't know why companies aren't upgrading. It's perfect as is". Then a massive patch rolls out. Windows 8 introduced the "ship it" award at MS where dept's were awarded for just rolling shit out. Ballmer's reign was fraught with bad updates, rushed versions, etc. All to make a buck. You need someone like the guy in the audience to say "no" and take the flak for it./
CP3oh
Everything about Microsoft makes me wish there was a valid (valid! don't say Linux!) mass-market alternative option for PC OS's besides Apple. They've gotten way, way too comfortable with their monopoly and it leads to shit like this.
Dstar99a
Chrome Os
looker42
Lol nope, just had to get rid of my Chrome os laptop because Chrome outlawed UBlock. Only ways to get it back was to install Linux or use the app version of Firefox (Which was a horrible experience)
Dstar99a
Some people don’t understand what joke is. Also some people feel the need to downvote something funny that they don’t understand. Hopefully yall find kindness in your life’s eventually. I’ve heard it gets lonely for the trolls.
WoeToHice
This! I've been a Microsoft user since DOS 3.30A. Recently, my work laptop started having hardware problems, so my employer shipped me a new one and that one, unfortunately, comes with Windows 11. Words cannot describe how shitty it is.
Cyanide555
Can't move the taskbar without reghacks and a reboot. And thats a minor issue. I hope they retcon half the os
Crozekiel
"I wish there was a valid alternative" "dont suggest the obvious alternative that is perfectly valid and mature, I heard from a friend that knows stuff that it isn't valid because he couldn't get it to work over a decade ago". You clearly won't try any alternative until it has already replaced windows as the default...
forg0tton
Steam OS might have a shot
ihavethelowground
StreamOS is basically linux
2kungfu4u
Literally just installed bazzite Linux on my new laptop so i could have steamos built in for game compatibility, it is a less user friendly Linux in terms of really available community for questions and it's still easy as piss to use. Linux has almost 1:1 familiarity in terms of desktop operation to Windows. Pretending Linux is too complicated for the average person is lazy and outdated
SkittishLittleToaster
Sadly, "easy as piss to use" still isn't good enough for mass adoption — and I say this as an Ubuntu user. Linux is the car that requires you to know how engines work in order to drive it, at least for many common use cases. If you just want to use a word processor or web browser, you're fine. Designing stuff professionally? Want both speakers to always work? You're either out of luck or need to tinker.
2kungfu4u
I won't pretend to be an expert on Linux but I've never had an issue finding what i need installing it and it just working. You don't need any advanced or secret knowledge.
Also the vast majority of work done on computers is just using the web and using Excel/word/email.
Pretending any of this is behind some complex mechanisms does nothing for open source adoption. If you truly struggle to use design software or get sounds out of your speakers this isn't a Linux issue
gesel
Linux is completely valid. 20 year old laptop, ubuntu, rock n roll. Libre office, inkscape, Firefox, Thunderbird. You rule the digital world for $100. And it will never tell you that your hardware isn't supported for the next release and support for this release ends in a month and a week after that, you will be hacked.
CheetoDustedMalcontent
Everything about American industry is this. Just rich as fuck skaters leaning on the working man
sheslikeheroin
PopOS is a linx thats pretty solid, i have it on my old computer and its really easy to jump into from windows user.
Kashija
I don't know much about Linux so I don't feel like it's obvious on why Linux is not valid?
Waschbaerkoenig
The main issue is the availability of software and drivers.
While everything is built to run in a Windows environment, more often than not, a version for Linux is missing. In the case of drivers, it means only basic usage of your hardware (or, in some cases, non at all) and for software it means you might not be able to run your favorite tool without an emulator (extra steps)
Both issues from Linux' low market share and at the same time are very the reason for the low market share. 1/
Waschbaerkoenig
So, in a few words: Linux isn't valid because it isn't seen as valid. Sounds stupid and kinda is. Microsoft invests enormous amounts of money to keep corporations and especially governments from switching to Linux - and then charge ridiculously high subscription and licencing fees, which dwarf the aforementioned costs. If any bigger government or big corp would switch, it'll create a demand for drivers/software for Linux, thus boost its validity, and therefore crush the windows monopoly.
Throwawayaccountnumbernegativethree
It's not very user friendly, but it is getting better. It is made by geeks for other geeks to do geeky stuff, so being able to use out of the box is just not as big a priority. Plus games and a lot of software just isn't built for it yet, but it is getting better.
It's worth figuring out how to use a bit and keeping a flash drive around; most distros can run easily off of a USB. There's issues that Linux can handle where your main windows install might be inoperable (i.e. corruption in hd)
CP3oh
This is the bit as to why I don't consider it a viable mass-market option, at least not yet. I'm not worried about us geeks; I'm thinking of the millions of other use cases where people need something that just works out of the box, without needing to explain what a "distro" is and why they're important.
wolf796
Best guess? Giving the benefit of the doubt, I'd say they've encountered a lot of issues with individuals who have no.idea what they are talking about. Otherwise, they have no idea what they are talking about. But that's not for me to say,
Linux as an Operating System is absolutely a valid alternative. The EU is making a huge push towards Linux based environments. As for the Microsoft and Apple Ecosystems, i will say that they aren't as up to par with the all-in-one application but there 1/2
jasondeslin
Because most of the software regular users care about doesn't work at all, or only works with advanced knowledge they don't have.
Linux is fantastic if you use your computer for work. Even if it's creative work. There are distros that work almost like windows and are pretty simple to learn.
But if you only have a computer for games, and the games you want to play don't work on Linux, then Linux isn't a valid answer.
That's why I use Win 10. (And about to go back to 7 because of fucking AI.)
wolf796
Usually an open source solution that can be implemented. A good example of this is Libre office. It's obviously not Microsoft office, but it gets the job done.
Ultimately, to answer your question, your confusion is valid, Linux is a Valid operating system if you are willing to learn it the same way anyone had to learn the OS flavor of their choice.
l0calh0st
Libre office does the standalone tasks not bad (except for Excel, there is literally no alternative to Excel) but if you consider Office as a collaboration suite that it is - there is nothing in the spitting distance of it, unfortunately.
wolf796
Agreed, but with the recent upticks in the community and the new laws in the EU, i hope to see that change soon :).
l0calh0st
I can't wait to have an alternative.
Ultratoxic
Linux is valid, Android is written on Linux, as are a bunch of niche operating systems for 3d printers and CNC machines and stuff. It's just not out-of-the-box compatible with a lot of the stuff we consider standard for a PC, like wireless peripherals and video games. It also requires some "advanced usership" to update and install support for those things. But for Internet browsing and doing work? Linux is great. Very stable, very little bloat.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
It's not valid if you use software that's only available on windows.
munkis
The steam deck runs Linux and is a gaming powerhouse
CanisDirusTV
Yeah? Can you play the newest released game without the anti cheat banning your ass?
Crozekiel
Saying it isn't out of the box compatible with stuff people consider standard is wild. I've been daily driving for over 2 years and have yet to plug something in that it doesn't recognize and work immediately. Most of my peripherals were easier to setup in Linux than in windows... And I game every day, most games I play run as good or better under proton than they did in windows.
MiseEnCode
"Works on my machine"
WoeToHice
There was a period in my life during which I periodically got pissed off at Microsoft and decide to give Linux a try as my main OS. Every single time, I ended up going back to Windows because I found myself digging through Internet discussions and obscure docs trying to get it to do what I can accomplish by installing a couple of programs on Windows. Yesterday, I was forced to start using Win11 at work and I was feeling tempted to try Linux on my home box. Your comment dissuaded me. Thanks!
WoeToHice
If anyone's curious, what dissuaded me was "not out-of-the-box compatible with [...] wireless peripherals and video games". Yeah, no thanks.
Ultratoxic
Yeah, that's what usually stops me too. I used various distros of ubuntoo, red hat, etc when I was still coding and was like "hey I should use Linux on my main PC". And then I was like "I would like to print to this network printer than my school hosts" and seven grep searches later I was like "nevermind, fuck this"
Septcanmat
As the old saying goes, Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. Even the more user-friendly flavours require more setup and upkeep than windows or macOS does.
WooNeat
This only true if you pick niche or more secure variants ... If you just go install vanilla Ubuntu and use what's there out of the box it's dead easy no maintenance, my non-nerd wife uses it just fine
But if you're like me and try to get all the secure shit going or fancy customization stuff then yup tons of time burned into but it's kind of a hobby on purpose that way
dantetsaronis
That hasn't been true for a decade. Setup and upkeep are both much faster and smoother than Windows and MacOS nowadays, largely thanks to enshittification of those corporate entities' systems where you're encouraged or forced to set up a cloud account, etc. Most Linux OS updates don't require a reboot, most program software ("app") updates don't even require a restart of a running program, and in general the OS and its utilities just stay the hell out of your way, unlike modern crapware.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
People have been saying this for decades and it's never true unless you are just using a web browser.
It only takes one thing not working correctly to ruin the experience.
dantetsaronis
The comment above is about the OS and its builtin capabilities. While I don't disagree with you re: the experience beyond that, your comment would apply to very proprietary things like video games or certain hardware interfaces more than a web browser, office suite, photo viewer/editor, etc. and that is largely because the developers of that especially-proprietary software and hardware that don't work well (or at all) simply choose to make it so. That's no fault of the OS, distro, or user.
AnonOmis1000
From my understanding, it is not user friendly if you're not a computer geek.
SkamanSam
This hasn't been true for a number of years. The real problem is fragmentation. Some distros are very user friendly, and some arent. I taught my 70yr old mother to use Fedora and she didnt have any problems.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
I hate this example because your mother is just using a web browser... And would have been fine on anything (including windows).
But one peripheral, or piece of software not working for someone who does more on the system ruins the whole experience.
SkamanSam
My mom doesn't just use a web browser. She uses email clients, word processors, games, etc. If you are working at a system level then user-friendliness isn't what you want and you would choose whichever system you want. This isn't about that, its about every-day users. And in my experience, windows offers just as many problems with hardware. Tbh, i haven't had a problem with hardware on linux in years. You don't buy mac hardware to run on windows, why wouldn't you check compatibility?
mnemonicman
It's gotten better but yeah. Not quite to the point you can sit your elderly relatives in front of it and not have to explain everything for them.
Evenmoreuselessname
Lol I literally set my grandmother up with Linux a few years ago. Two icons on the desktop, one labeled "Chat" and the other labelled "Internet" going to Pidgin and Firefox. Zero support calls. Of course, now it's easier to just give them a Chromebook for that, which is... Linux, too.
dantetsaronis
Only because of their familiarity with the preexisting dominant alternatives, I think? If they had not already learned Windows or MacOS, Linux is probably at least as intuitive, especially because they're less "busy" with fewer UI elements and UX quirks to (re)learn.
slinkydust
There are multiple versions that mimic windows or Mac UX