One time I hit my arm on a table and my aunt scolded me because I said ow. As a boy I was not allowed to even express physical pain in that house. Years later her daughter told me that "men should never cry under ANY circumstances." Needless to say I swiftly ignored both of those ridiculous suggestions. It's ok to cry. It's ok to express physical and emotional pain.
If you ask me how I am doing and I give you finger guns and say "Living the Dream!" I'm about 1 stupid fucking question away from going absolutely off the rails.
I haven't been okay for 25 years. My mental health has deteriorated to the point where I no longer have any motivation or joy doing things that once excited me. Life has become a sinking ship and I can only trudge from one hole to the next applying whatever fix I can manage while I wait for the sweet release of death. The last time someone said something nice to me was June 2008. Other than that I'm fine.
Generally I'm doing pretty shitty, but I danced with my 3yo at a restaurant last night; he wanted me to spin him, and he wanted to spin me; so that was pretty gosh darn fantastic, going to try and wring every last homemade happy chemical out of that DOSE as long as I can.
Yeah, my philosophy has always been if I'm spending time talking about it I'm not spending time fixing it. The best way to deal with pain is to address the cause, not discuss the symptoms. Also, most of the time I'm fine.
I mean, sometimes discussing the symptoms can be helpful for figuring out the cause, and outside perspectives can help figure out a solution. That's obviously not applicable to every problem, but for others, even just knowing that you're not the only poor bastard in the same situation can help with the alone feeling. Shit's fucked, but panaceas are hard to come by, so don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and ignore options that may help because they're not a full solution.
Patriarchy forbids men from expressing emotions in a healthy manner and seeking help for mental/emotional issues. Capitalism ensures that 99% of men have those issues. Fuck the patriarchy. Fuck capitalism.
The problem is in part that so many of us have been conditioned to not share, to not open up, not only because it is "weak", but because it often gets used against us when we're down/at our lowest point in relationships. If your guy shuts tighter than a clam about things like this, it's possibly because prior relationships have taught him that anything shared is exploitable.
Also, guys seem to not be anywhere near as comfortable with things being common knowledge. Been in a few relationships where something that I thought was a private issue was actually public info among my SO's close friends. If you tell me something in confidence, I'll take it to my grave. I've found that's not the case in relationships, and women tend to work things out communally (which guys are often REALLY not comfortable with).
And we really should be more comfortable with it. Community therapy is a big part of how humans have thrived so much. That said, there should be limits. When my ex shared our private discussions on her blog, names included, I was not pleased.
all to hide the fact that you just stole someone's monkey, who takes home a obviously owned money? that monkey did not sew his own jacket, he's a pet that you swiped
After long months without a date, finally get a first date scheduled last weekend. Have the butterflies and everything. The morning of I get a text from her saying she matched with someone else who she sees more potential with and goodbye
Fast-forward to today, where my fake internet girlfriend whom I had been messaging frequently, told me she met someone who has potential so we can no longer talk. It's like poetry. It rhymes 🥲
Here's my realest, most pro tip: just focus on making friends. With no ulterior motives to a relationship, or sex. Without discriminating against gender for your friendships. Romantic relationships are fun and can be meaningful additions to your life, but they're not supposed to be the only meaningful connections in your life. A (small) number of lifelong friends who can comfort you and meet your emotional needs are more important than a romantic relationship for long-term happiness.
If you do end up in a romantic relationship, it also makes your romance stronger and more resilient because you're not expecting a single person to take care of *all* your emotional needs, which is a very big reason women pass on relationships with men a lot. We end up feeling like nannies or mothers more than we are partners and it sucks so much. Take care of yourself by making and maintaining meaningful friendships, and romances are more likely to happen AND last.
Excellent advice. Easier said than done, but excellent nonetheless. A lot of men have it so deeply engrained to keep their feelings to themselves and conceal vulnerability that they literally can't do anything else. It's a terrible situation, and while there are effective ways to avoid ending up like that, coming back from it is nigh impossible. Like with depression, it's a death spiral where the solution itself is inhibited by the symptoms of the problem.
Always had a very close relationship with my brother and didn't ever get into this idea that you had to keep everything to yourself and stand strong without help. Becoming a dad changed that though... showing weakness could scare the kids, so I found myself closing up more. Luckily I'm not parenting my wife and I can open up and be vulnerable with her. I make efforts to tell the kids how I'm feeling too though. I want them to understand me and know they can be safe even when things look bad.
You're a good person. You remind me of my dad. He's a good person, too. I have never seen him cry, even at his own mother's funeral, as his siblings and other loved ones were breaking down around him, he was there, cool and quiet as a frozen meadow, holding everything together. I remember admiring that so much and wanting to be like him, to be the immovable rock everyone else could lean on in hardship. As I got older, I realized what that was doing to me. I realized the reason I don't like -
showing emotion and being vulnerable isn't because I'm afraid to be judged, it's because I'm afraid of hurting my loved ones, of making them worry, so I swallow my tears and keep them bottled up, and it hurts, but I tell myself it's worth it, because it keeps my loved ones safe and happy. Only, it doesn't; it teaches them strength is the absence of vulnerability. It turns them into me, and gives them that same bottled up pain. Show your kids strength *is* vulnerability. Let them see you cry.
The stigma against men being emotional, expressing and sharing emotions with one another, and communicating openly.. Is likely a leading cause to why so many men end up as angry eggheads with too much aggression and issues in the world today.
I've read articles about studies over the years saying it's heavily due to women wanting to choose "prettier" means, that they want to have a more poetic-looking death and of course that's less effective. I've also read women are more likely to intentionally "attempt" it as a cry for help than actually intending to do it, whereas men bottle it up and then mean to get the job done if they get to that point, typically.
The thing for me was always the clean-up, not the "poetry". I wouldn't shoot myself or jump off a building because I don't want someone to have to clean that horrorshow up. Plus, your loved ones finding a pile of goo where your head once was is very different than finding someone who's overdosed. We also tend to do it in the bathtub. Easy rinse.
My cousin used to work specifically cleaning up crime scenes. They still had to sanitize everything, and clean up chunks of stuff, blood stains, and typically replacing the tubs and often tiles lol. Death is never pretty and never clean.
I didn't do a thesis or peer review it. I just read it from random articles years ago, and I'm more updated studies have been done since then that might refute it. You can doubt it, i have no issue with that. I'm no more an expert than you are. You'd think a "quick Google search" might be a useful place to start though. Lol
I think it's just the methods we generally use (like overdosing/bleeding out) aren't as fool-proof as blowing your head off or jumping from the 30th floor so it may look like it's "for attention" when we ultimately survive.
First, he's a good dancer with a great pole barn. Second: To any woman who asks "are men ok?" -Reach out to that one person you're actually talking about. He's not all men, he's one person who may appreciate hearing from you.
Agreed, when using statements like "all men, all women, all anything" it's hard not to hear a bigoted statement following it. But she didn't say it in this clip so let's assume the best.
I click this every single time and each time it reaches the end, a small lump appears in my throat. It has become better with people around me who understands but it takes time
This is truth... and also in itself holds up the same hero cult of keeping it together by yourself. "battling demons you cannot imagine." That's again making it heroic in their personal struggle. Fuckit! They're human. They struggle. They're in way over their heads, they need to talk to someone, they need to talk to someone. They're not the only one in the world, the whole point is they don't need to fight it alone.
October? 2018, Or late September 1963, What a very special time for me As I remember, what a night Oh, what a night, you know I didn't even know her name But I was never gonna be the same What a lady, what a night....
You need to find better friends. When I got out of high school I realised that most of the people I thought were my friends were actually huge pieces of shit, so I went looking for better ones. ~25 years alter I've got a large circle of amazing people who all work to look out for each other.
My gf and I broke up the other day, and the only person I wanted to talk to about after the fact ... was her. Instead I just kind of bumped around the apartment for hours
I am very fortunate to have relationships with people that I feel comfortable expressing myself to: my sisters, my parents, my core friend group...I would feel completely comfortable coming to any one of them for emotional help if I needed it. I am well aware that this "I'm on my own because nobody cares" mentality exists for a majority of men, and is probably true...but I think memes like this that almost celebrate this lack of empathy towards male emotional health are counter productive
As the son who has been through mental hell, is still going through mental hell, and member of the family who is actually getting help. Everyone likes to walk up and dump their day’s problems on me and never ask how I am doing. About once a week I get asked how I am and it gets turned into a different convo so fast that I have given up actually answering it in any truthful complicity. I am just the family therapists because I don’t outwardly freakout like they do.
Ghostbusters? Definately on the nobody side. Nobody cares anyway about you whining about your problems, they are just waiting for a pause so that they can tell you their problems and how much worse it is than yours.
There was a time when it was my mother, but as I got into my mid-twenties, she started using anything I told her against me in our increasingly-frequent arguments. I haven't spoken to her in over 3 years now.
I spent years thinking no one would care, but when I began to open up to some of my friends I found out they really did, and the amount of love and support they have given me in my rough patches sometimes brings me to tears. Depression is a liar and keeps us isolated when we don't need to be.
Exactly. Also, that's precisely why the actual 'toxic masculinity' (and this behaviour is very much textbook definition) as much as it gets thrown around as a buzzword, IS detrimental towards men just as much as it is towards women.
Be the person who starts this in your friend group. As a man (yes, I know my username is fucking confusing, but PLEASE trust me on this), I was always incredibly open with my friends, both about my own struggles, and about calling them out when they were silently struggling with them. START. THE. DISCUSSION. It will take time and patience, but we NEED to be there for each other. As these dudes say, no one else will be. Be the friend you needed in your hard times. Call you friends. Love them.
Yep, THIS right here! It is kinda refreshing and liberating though since I know no one gives a fuck about me, I don't have to give a damn about anyone. The problems I encounter I need to tackle them on my own (which I do successfully) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m a lady who went skydiving. My tandem partner told me that men struggled the worst when it was time to jump because they didn’t express their anxiety and nervousness on the way up. He said women would talk the whole time which helped relieve our nerves so when it came time to jump we were better mentally prepared. This applies to anything in life I think.
This used to be me, but I now have a couple of good friends that I began to open up to and found out that yes, they do care. I don't speak for all men and I don't know what each of them is going through, but sometimes when you think "no one cares", that's depression lying to you. If you've tried and not found good responses, I feel for you. But if you haven't tried, just give it a shot, cause sometimes people will surprise you. And always try to be that person for those you care about, because
sometimes other people may also be thinking you won't care if they open up. Being that person for someone else can be just what they need to be that person for you.
Great, but also seriously do not make your SO your ONLY system of emotional support. It can get exhausting for them and also is a a serious cause of major depression and death after the loss of a spouse.
Currently working through this with my current SO. Every day I get home they need support and to dump. They'll call their parent and talk about reality TV gossip for 2 hours, then get off the phone and all I get is endless venting. All she ever says is no one else cares or they'll judge her, and she can't do therapy cause her family will judge. Blows my mind how a person can supposedly have mutual love of family, but also believe they cant talk to them or even someone else without judgment.
Same. Ive always had family but its just something we shrug off and march on with business as usual. Break down and literally say eh, it'll pass and in 10 mins I'm 'back to normal'. Finding the right S.O does make a monumental difference. There's hope fellas
My buddy and I have a code. "Hey man, you want to play some games tonight?" It's code to the other that you're going through some shit that you want to talk about without the apparent weakness of saying "I need help."
Man. I have reached out at bad times like this and shot down. Granted, it wasn't an established code, and I never explicitly asked for help. I'm surprised I survived those nights, honestly
Made friends online with someone in another country many years ago. Same code. Either of us will instantly load up the game of choice, and we talk about shit while we slaughter noobs.
All men have a code like that. "Sup." "Sup." is code for "Hey, I'm sorry about what happened. Is everything alright?" "Absolutely, we're good. Thanks for the apology."
36yr old man. Videos like this helped me to reach out to my brother on occasion when I'm mentally fucked. I still mostly just keep to myself, but I have called, it's helped
It wasn't meant mockingly. I really think it's sad that a lot of people don't have people they can talk to. Everyone should have at least one person they can lean on when times are tough
Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll find some friends that you can be open with, for your friends really should give a fuck about you, and you should ofc also reciprocate ^^
I'm sorry you feel that way my dude, I hope that your friends and family can help you through this period. Cuz it sounds like you have people but have a hard time reaching out. I believe in you.
You've got that the wrong way around. I'm doing great because I have worked to build a friend base of wonderful caring people who actively support each other. Hence, complaining about "none of my friends give a shit about me" is a self-enforced situation. If they don't care about you, they're NOT your friends, just some people you know.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's entirely accurate. I have diagnosed depression and anxiety and before I got low enough to make myself get help, I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone. Yes, technically it was me in my head saying "no one cares, suck it up and deal with it" but you also have to understand that those thoughts aren't voluntary. My logical side knew that I had people to reach out to, but my logical side isn't what's in control in a depressive state./
I may have read it wrong, but...to me, everything you said was in a agreement with what the other dude said. Self-enforced, meaning you were the one putting the restrictions on yourself, as you said.
To add to that, I know men who aren't diagnosed and will refuse to be seen by a doctor because they, like most men, were raised to believe that if you have a problem, it's *your* problem. *You* need to deal with it like a man. And not just from parents or family or friends, but society as a whole has supported that idea for a long time. It's hard to overcome conditioning like that, and nearly impossible to do it alone like we've been led to believe we are.
I was the same, my old "friends" weren't actually friends. Thinking that people I'd grown up with who liked the same things as me were my friends was a huge mistake. They didn't give a shit about me, they just liked hanging out with me. I went and got myself new friends.
Because people with decades of bottled up emotions and completely unaddressed trauma and/or mental health issues are at elevated risk of harming themselves and/or others, or engaging in behavior that puts themselves or others at risk
That's on an individual level, which can be bad enough and lead to mass shootings and such, but having a critical mass of socially disconnected young men in your society also presents a social danger. They form or join dangerous ideologies. Radical islam is in great part driven by what could reasonably be termed incel culture, and similar phenomena is happening in India and parts of Africa, as well as with the far right in the US. Too many unhappy men in your culture, you're *fucked*.
And when you see the rest of the world and how it works, who the fuck wants help? I'm hoping an illness takes me out, get things looked at? Hell no, let me off this fucked up rock
Ah, the bottled up and exploding thing that can happen. True, that can be very messy, which is one of the reasons it's so sad that they don't have people they trust enough to lean on.
I find that showing my own vulnerabilities to others, helps open that bridge. When I notice someone is aching to vent, I start first. Trauma bonding is an incredible thing.
Indeed. I let go of my ego in my late twenties. If someone uses that vulnerability against you, then f**k 'em. Cut toxic people out. No excuses. We're only led to believe no cares. Look around here. So many do. You just have to believe them when they say it and not let you brain tell you otherwise.
This. My bf says he has nobody but me to talk about his problems to. But when his friends call him and they're having a bad time he's not supportive of them. Like why would you expect people to be there for you when you're turning around telling them to 'man up'. I drove 2 hours to support a friend who was having issues. She'd do the same for me in a heart beat.
Not to draw away from the men here who need and DESERVE emotional support and compassion, but I'm a woman and when I'm at my lowest I don't call or contact anyone either. Depression isolates you.
Same. I'm a lady and have been depressed and isolated for 20+ years. There's not a single person to reach out to other than my SO, who is great and supportive but being the ONLY person to do so puts a ton of weight on him. I shoulder his emotional weight as well but it's the same problem, we need a bigger support system.
Yeah… it’s an insidious symptom of the condition. Might be why guys don’t reach out? Already feeling like they should isolate because depression, topped with societal norms of “guys don’t have feelings”. Either way, the depression alone makes lifting your phone feel like lifting a car when it’s to look for help.
Men don't reach out because there is a societal stigma that men should be able to cope and handle things by themselves. Both in that you will appear "weak" for struggling, and you will then be ridiculed by others for attempting to reach out. Men also don't help themselves by continuing to buy into this view and ridiculing others out of their own insecurities. Man up - the two most damaging words a young man ever hears.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
It's even worse than that too, because women will say they want you to open and emotionally vulnerable but then leave you when being emotionally available ruins their idea of manliness. The people we trust the most are the ones who truly care the least most of the time.
I'm so sorry that's been your experience, that really sucks and I hope you find someone better. Don't hold it against all women, many of us are more than willing to help out our SOs emotionally. My partner and I are eathothers support system and I honestly never thought I'd have one but here we are.
I'd never hold it against all women, I still try my best, and stay respectful. It just hurts to be afraid that opening up to the person I love might make them stop loving me
I know exactly how that feels and I'm so sorry you're going through it too. Meeting the right people seems so hard these days despite how much more our society is "connected" than it used to be, e.g. the internet and social media. It's maddening, really, lol. I really hope you find the right one, I wish you the best.
Oh yes I remember crying once in my first relationship. Found her laptop open once when I woke up in the middle of the night. Found messages of her shit-talking about me with her friend.
My first girlfriend cheated on me with 4 different guys, I know the pain. She was my best friend for almost a decade before we started dating. 3 months later, I was trying to forget that I knew her.
In Encanto, Luisa was originally a man, in order to highlight this issue. But was changed to a woman because some women also have this issue that 90% of all men struggle with
I went to my GP and told her I'm tired all the time, I have trouble getting to sleep and staying asleep, I've lost all interest in my hobbies, apart from drinking, I'm feeling low all of the time, I'm gaining weight cos I eat so much all the time, I'm always stressed and angry. She said it sounds like an iron deficiency and sent me for a battery of blood tests that showed everything's fine (which was kinda a suprise to me) and she said that we'd repeat them in a year.
As someone with depression and anxiety: it sounds like you have depression at the minimum (and maybe anxiety depending on your feelings of stress and how often/severe). If your GP didn't look at that angle you need to seek out a new GP. You gave her a list of symptoms, she ran a test that said her guess was wrong and then did nothing. Definitely go back and let them know that something is still wrong. It is hard but stand up for your health. You shouldn't have to live for a year with your >
Bruh, there are 2 things on Earth that could solve all problems: money and men getting therapy. And even the money problem is a side effect of men's poor mental health. See : Putin, Trump, Musk, Netanyahu, Un, Hitler, Stalin and on and on and on throughout all of history. Probably time to give the women a chance.
Society is doing both men and women injustice by pretending like there are vast gaps in our emotions and needs. We all just want to feel loved, like we have a purpose and like we make a difference. It isn't about genitals, but post war patriachale systems have done so much damage it will take generations to fix the shit. We are all people, if we pretend like one half of society is lesser or one half can't feel it will continue to hurt us all.
Agreed. It isn't that we don't have similar needs, it's that we're treated differently. Women receive more physical adoration; men receive more professional. Men are shamed for opening up; it's expected from women. Etc.
This comes back to the differences in equality vs equity. Both sex's basic needs are mostly equal, but our societal needs are often quite different.
I heard a quote from somewhere women are drowning in the ocean while men are dehydrated in a desert. They have a completely disproportionate amount of attention.
People really need to understand that you're never going to help men as long as phrases like "toxic masculinity" are in use. Toxic masculinity, regardless of intention, is always going to be read as positioning men and their personal relationship to masculinity as the problem and immediately puts men in a negative position of either having to defend themselves or of having to take personal responsibility for wider societal problems in order to seek help.
I hate using the term "Toxic Masculinity" because it wrongly maximizes attention on male negative actions & responsibility for the "patriarchy", and other issues, draws away from thinking about social issues more in womens' hands,& results in both having more onus on men when they're largely class and cultural biases perpetuated by men AND women. E.g., many women WILL see a man crying as weak, and saying "fucking open up if you want to do better" isn't helpful when we've tried & found that out
I see you fall under the "If men would just stop being so stupid and toxic and seek help, they wouldn't have these problems." category. It's very easy to say it's someone's own fault instead of stepping back and saying "Hey maybe the last twenty years of telling men that they're all monsters, abusers, r*pists, and that opening up about their interests is mansplaining has taken a toll on a group of young men who have only ever known this world and we need to make a societal change."
You can work to change the standards that cause the issues while still encouraging someone to seek out help to cope with the damages caused, you know. No need to attack someone for giving a good piece of advice.
My cousin who has a femisint activist told me about them. Cant find anything in the web though. Also don't quite understand why I got downvoted, but hey, its in the internet.
Because you were citing an anecdote as evidence. Basically you were saying "this is how it is" instead of saying "I have heard that...". https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
Male-specific spaces are generally attacked, and for some reason women-only facilities are celebrated. Yet at the same time, men are also pushed to open up to others and other men, find better community and fellowship, etc. It's like society has labeled men inherently untrustworthy and shouldn't be allowed to gather and socialize in the same ways as women, and wholly blame men for their issues while shunning most actions, movements, and spaces that could alleviate the problems.
That depends a lot on what was said. If it pertained to mental health and emotional support, men need more of that. If it was about forming social and societal connections with each other, men already have more of that.
Them literally belittling the faculty member trying to help men was a shit move in either case. And you are wrong. Many men are isolated. Well documented. Diminishing that was wrong (for them and you.)
Yes, many men are isolated. But generally speaking, men are better interconnected in terms of business and societal power. There's a reason why the term "old boy network" exists and doesn't really have a female equivalent. I hear what you are saying, and it sounds from your account that this situation didn't have to do with societal power, but there is also a context where adding a men's group would contribute to societal sexism.
I took a gender studies course at uni, expecting my mind to be expanded a bit, but my prof was so closed minded it was insane. I was the only straight white male in my class and she always called on me "to get a man's opinion." I told her the women around me had more stereotypical male views than I did but she wouldn't listen. She was only there one semester, I can only guess cuz she was not about equality, but women's superiority.
I agree entirely. Point being, that the "war against boys" is real and sadly carried out by very progressive people who see social advancement as some sort of competition. And use a crude power binary to decide that men have power and hence cannot be victimized or left behind in this way. I work with them every day. Sometimes it's like some sort of Fox news caricature of academe that gained sentience.
And we hear that No, it's all of our fault so we should shut up and stop whining and be real men. Wait... isn't that the problem that we are trying to be "real men"? Women do hear when they are growing up to be more "ladylike" but they never hear "be a real woman". We do. What is a "real man" anyway? One not made of plastic or cardboard? Nvm. I'm okay. I'm fine.
I think it's difficult to experience the world how the opposite sex does, and both men and women struggle against societal enforcement of gender roles, and I think it's important to acknowledge that. Men and women *can*, in principle, be in this together, for male and female issues.
What I think is telling is that there's no "toxic feminity," or similar acknowledgement, which isn't only representative of a large bias, but implicitly seems to assign societal agency to men and less to women.
BenArowndaBlok
Everyone is struggling. Men face unique challenges but everyone is suffering from the weird disease that keeps us separate, scared strangers
DenStortalendeMester
Midgarmerc
One time I hit my arm on a table and my aunt scolded me because I said ow. As a boy I was not allowed to even express physical pain in that house. Years later her daughter told me that "men should never cry under ANY circumstances." Needless to say I swiftly ignored both of those ridiculous suggestions. It's ok to cry. It's ok to express physical and emotional pain.
ComoSeIguana
100%
Robtheshaman
In manic way, not the faking shit way. Manic panic all the way!!!
Gerdalearnedme
You’re so silly.
AllTheseFlavors
No one's Ok, Our Gov. Makes sure of that..
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
If you ask me how I am doing and I give you finger guns and say "Living the Dream!" I'm about 1 stupid fucking question away from going absolutely off the rails.
Bhargo
no, no we are not, please send help
FreeDadHugs
We say we're okay because no one wants to hear otherwise.
arocktrucker777
LompHoofd
its been 80 years ...
HighSorcerer
I haven't been okay for 25 years. My mental health has deteriorated to the point where I no longer have any motivation or joy doing things that once excited me. Life has become a sinking ship and I can only trudge from one hole to the next applying whatever fix I can manage while I wait for the sweet release of death. The last time someone said something nice to me was June 2008. Other than that I'm fine.
1eyed1h0rnedflyingpurplepeopleeater
Crying to sleep in the hooouse tonnnight.
Doing whatever it takes to survive.
BeerandCats
Generally I'm doing pretty shitty, but I danced with my 3yo at a restaurant last night; he wanted me to spin him, and he wanted to spin me; so that was pretty gosh darn fantastic, going to try and wring every last homemade happy chemical out of that DOSE as long as I can.
QueefMalone
Gettin' by as best we can.
illmx
That’s a great beard
VindictiveBathToaster
And that’s how we handle it. Instead of addressing it, we do something to change the subject.
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
Yeah, my philosophy has always been if I'm spending time talking about it I'm not spending time fixing it. The best way to deal with pain is to address the cause, not discuss the symptoms. Also, most of the time I'm fine.
solarshado
I mean, sometimes discussing the symptoms can be helpful for figuring out the cause, and outside perspectives can help figure out a solution. That's obviously not applicable to every problem, but for others, even just knowing that you're not the only poor bastard in the same situation can help with the alone feeling. Shit's fucked, but panaceas are hard to come by, so don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and ignore options that may help because they're not a full solution.
HeartsStarsAndSouls
YouWouldLookMeInPurple
Patriarchy forbids men from expressing emotions in a healthy manner and seeking help for mental/emotional issues. Capitalism ensures that 99% of men have those issues. Fuck the patriarchy. Fuck capitalism.
HootSloot
Isolation is a side effect of capitalism
drivergrrl
I really hate this now common af response but I've never felt so much urgency to use it: THIS!!!!!!
Knifesmith
The problem is in part that so many of us have been conditioned to not share, to not open up, not only because it is "weak", but because it often gets used against us when we're down/at our lowest point in relationships. If your guy shuts tighter than a clam about things like this, it's possibly because prior relationships have taught him that anything shared is exploitable.
Knifesmith
Also, guys seem to not be anywhere near as comfortable with things being common knowledge. Been in a few relationships where something that I thought was a private issue was actually public info among my SO's close friends. If you tell me something in confidence, I'll take it to my grave. I've found that's not the case in relationships, and women tend to work things out communally (which guys are often REALLY not comfortable with).
YouWouldLookMeInPurple
And we really should be more comfortable with it. Community therapy is a big part of how humans have thrived so much. That said, there should be limits. When my ex shared our private discussions on her blog, names included, I was not pleased.
TheSuicider
InfamousTaters
Haha said this exact thing and lied myself to sleep.
Chort26
proracing53
ProcrastinatingWork
See they totally make "therapy" for men
kanemano
all to hide the fact that you just stole someone's monkey, who takes home a obviously owned money? that monkey did not sew his own jacket, he's a pet that you swiped
Boxingjedi
someone's Nazi monkey you mean, cause that little shit was a spy! eff that monkey in particular.
kanemano
But an effective spy, don't hate the player
Boxingjedi
ComoSeIguana
It's okay. The monkey ate some BAD dates his owner left behind. Says more about the owner than Indiana
JEMbalaya
After long months without a date, finally get a first date scheduled last weekend. Have the butterflies and everything. The morning of I get a text from her saying she matched with someone else who she sees more potential with and goodbye
Fast-forward to today, where my fake internet girlfriend whom I had been messaging frequently, told me she met someone who has potential so we can no longer talk. It's like poetry. It rhymes 🥲
MermaidLullaby
Here's my realest, most pro tip: just focus on making friends. With no ulterior motives to a relationship, or sex. Without discriminating against gender for your friendships. Romantic relationships are fun and can be meaningful additions to your life, but they're not supposed to be the only meaningful connections in your life. A (small) number of lifelong friends who can comfort you and meet your emotional needs are more important than a romantic relationship for long-term happiness.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Man here. Can confirm. Adding women to your platonic friendships is definitely a pro-gamer move.
MermaidLullaby
If you do end up in a romantic relationship, it also makes your romance stronger and more resilient because you're not expecting a single person to take care of *all* your emotional needs, which is a very big reason women pass on relationships with men a lot. We end up feeling like nannies or mothers more than we are partners and it sucks so much. Take care of yourself by making and maintaining meaningful friendships, and romances are more likely to happen AND last.
2Ghoul4School
Excellent advice. Easier said than done, but excellent nonetheless. A lot of men have it so deeply engrained to keep their feelings to themselves and conceal vulnerability that they literally can't do anything else. It's a terrible situation, and while there are effective ways to avoid ending up like that, coming back from it is nigh impossible. Like with depression, it's a death spiral where the solution itself is inhibited by the symptoms of the problem.
InconspicuousLampshade
Always had a very close relationship with my brother and didn't ever get into this idea that you had to keep everything to yourself and stand strong without help. Becoming a dad changed that though... showing weakness could scare the kids, so I found myself closing up more. Luckily I'm not parenting my wife and I can open up and be vulnerable with her. I make efforts to tell the kids how I'm feeling too though. I want them to understand me and know they can be safe even when things look bad.
2Ghoul4School
You're a good person. You remind me of my dad. He's a good person, too. I have never seen him cry, even at his own mother's funeral, as his siblings and other loved ones were breaking down around him, he was there, cool and quiet as a frozen meadow, holding everything together. I remember admiring that so much and wanting to be like him, to be the immovable rock everyone else could lean on in hardship. As I got older, I realized what that was doing to me. I realized the reason I don't like -
2Ghoul4School
showing emotion and being vulnerable isn't because I'm afraid to be judged, it's because I'm afraid of hurting my loved ones, of making them worry, so I swallow my tears and keep them bottled up, and it hurts, but I tell myself it's worth it, because it keeps my loved ones safe and happy. Only, it doesn't; it teaches them strength is the absence of vulnerability. It turns them into me, and gives them that same bottled up pain. Show your kids strength *is* vulnerability. Let them see you cry.
intashu
The stigma against men being emotional, expressing and sharing emotions with one another, and communicating openly.. Is likely a leading cause to why so many men end up as angry eggheads with too much aggression and issues in the world today.
Affray
I'm not arguing your correct point, but did the definition of egghead change on me when I wasn't looking?
MediocreExtremist
first this; second stage: why 3 out of 4 suicides are men. 75%! gender-"equality" that's never talked about.
titoitoi
Because a world run by toxic men is not good for men either. And it is talked about, all the time.
HootSloot
But then it's not entirely the fault of women? That can't be right/s
Jenvas
Yeah women, you gotta pump those numbers up, dont let the men show you up!
intashu
*successful suicides*. In actual attempts women are higher on average. But they use less violent means to attempt it and have a higher survival rate.
FutureBeachBum
I've read articles about studies over the years saying it's heavily due to women wanting to choose "prettier" means, that they want to have a more poetic-looking death and of course that's less effective. I've also read women are more likely to intentionally "attempt" it as a cry for help than actually intending to do it, whereas men bottle it up and then mean to get the job done if they get to that point, typically.
hannahbutnotreally
The thing for me was always the clean-up, not the "poetry". I wouldn't shoot myself or jump off a building because I don't want someone to have to clean that horrorshow up. Plus, your loved ones finding a pile of goo where your head once was is very different than finding someone who's overdosed. We also tend to do it in the bathtub. Easy rinse.
FutureBeachBum
My cousin used to work specifically cleaning up crime scenes. They still had to sanitize everything, and clean up chunks of stuff, blood stains, and typically replacing the tubs and often tiles lol. Death is never pretty and never clean.
QuickGoogleSearch
Idk, every point you made sounds a bit sus. Women want a prettier death and botch suicide attempts for attention?
FutureBeachBum
I didn't do a thesis or peer review it. I just read it from random articles years ago, and I'm more updated studies have been done since then that might refute it. You can doubt it, i have no issue with that. I'm no more an expert than you are. You'd think a "quick Google search" might be a useful place to start though. Lol
hannahbutnotreally
I think it's just the methods we generally use (like overdosing/bleeding out) aren't as fool-proof as blowing your head off or jumping from the 30th floor so it may look like it's "for attention" when we ultimately survive.
Waxilliam
First, he's a good dancer with a great pole barn. Second: To any woman who asks "are men ok?" -Reach out to that one person you're actually talking about. He's not all men, he's one person who may appreciate hearing from you.
acuteavocado7
i have a feeling from her tone that she was about to say something negative, not genuinely caring. i could be wrong tho
Waxilliam
Agreed, when using statements like "all men, all women, all anything" it's hard not to hear a bigoted statement following it. But she didn't say it in this clip so let's assume the best.
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
Yeah I'm jealous of that barn. My neighbor just built a nice garage, too. I feel like I'm being taunted by outbuildings.
QuanfaKibitzer
wtfylat
Lol, everyone thinks they've got demons and struggles
BlueDsc
Most people do.
qshamtech
Truth!
NorthsideNation
Same, brother. Same.
Kingsway
I click this every single time and each time it reaches the end, a small lump appears in my throat. It has become better with people around me who understands but it takes time
Matty3D
I don't know why when I hear the line, "I feel you brother", it makes me choke up.
ProcrastinatingWork
I'm alright
cyounghmfce
No matter how many times i watch htis it always hits me in the feels !!
HerrHat
This is truth... and also in itself holds up the same hero cult of keeping it together by yourself.
"battling demons you cannot imagine." That's again making it heroic in their personal struggle. Fuckit! They're human. They struggle. They're in way over their heads, they need to talk to someone, they need to talk to someone. They're not the only one in the world, the whole point is they don't need to fight it alone.
zagibu
It's a bit overdone, but it's not wrong. We usually cannot imagine the exact problems that other people struggle with.
JustaguyfromNH
I'm seen this a hundred times, but it still rings so true. Wish I knew the guy in the video, would like to say 'thank you' and shake his hand
chaosundivided
ooh! I was okay once! and not even that long ago, I think in like... 2018? it was a day in October.
Waxilliam
October? 2018, Or late September 1963, What a very special time for me
As I remember, what a night Oh, what a night, you know I didn't even know her name But I was never gonna be the same What a lady, what a night....
anonim1133
Why was it okay? Someone actually asked how are you feeling, or randomly said something nice to you?
BriefcaseTacos
I'm alright.
InternetAnonymityplz
Don't nobody worry 'bout me!
Andrzhel
I'm alright too, brother
ComoSeIguana
10001110101periodictablewithasantapieceofmind
pip1
Could be worse
wheeeeeeeeeeee
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
could always be worse
acuteavocado7
livin the dream
LariCheltsy
ChristopherHallett
WOW that's a lot of incels collated into one video.
theDogter
I’ve got a buddy that calls me when I’m down and I do the same for him, I just hope I’m catching it more than missing it.
TheScaryJello
#facts
zagibu
You can talk to ChatGPT about it now. Progress!
sixtyPangwins
Pretty on point as a guy my self. No one cares and if I bring it up it’s social exile so nope. You just way till you break then your done. Forever.
ChristopherHallett
You need to find better friends. When I got out of high school I realised that most of the people I thought were my friends were actually huge pieces of shit, so I went looking for better ones. ~25 years alter I've got a large circle of amazing people who all work to look out for each other.
austinwizardforhire
It's not *just* that no one cares, it's that you will be openly mocked for showing any vulnerability or weakness.
enkrypt3d
bourbon.
CompressedInfo
My gf and I broke up the other day, and the only person I wanted to talk to about after the fact ... was her. Instead I just kind of bumped around the apartment for hours
ImAnActionBirb
I wish I could give all of those men my number. That’s so freaking sad
LariCheltsy
TuckerTheGuy
This is why 4chan green text is so popular.
VerifiedApproves
Dads need to dad better. Stop toxic "manosphere" culture and be a real man.
LeftRightThere
Yeah, this feels about right.
MantisTobagganMD
I am very fortunate to have relationships with people that I feel comfortable expressing myself to: my sisters, my parents, my core friend group...I would feel completely comfortable coming to any one of them for emotional help if I needed it. I am well aware that this "I'm on my own because nobody cares" mentality exists for a majority of men, and is probably true...but I think memes like this that almost celebrate this lack of empathy towards male emotional health are counter productive
prosper020
As the son who has been through mental hell, is still going through mental hell, and member of the family who is actually getting help. Everyone likes to walk up and dump their day’s problems on me and never ask how I am doing. About once a week I get asked how I am and it gets turned into a different convo so fast that I have given up actually answering it in any truthful complicity. I am just the family therapists because I don’t outwardly freakout like they do.
rzlprnft
It sounds like you need a beer/play some games/hit the gym on a regular basis
Zobbie
Ghostbusters? Definately on the nobody side. Nobody cares anyway about you whining about your problems, they are just waiting for a pause so that they can tell you their problems and how much worse it is than yours.
dedpan
There was a time when it was my mother, but as I got into my mid-twenties, she started using anything I told her against me in our increasingly-frequent arguments. I haven't spoken to her in over 3 years now.
Gerdalearnedme
Virtual hug…
jugend
Ghostbusters?
thisisausernamelikeanyothersbutthisonesmellsweird
drivergrrl
Soooo... why don't you dudes just fucking talk to each other already??? Say, fuck societal norms, let's break that shit and write a new normal!
doctorId
I spent years thinking no one would care, but when I began to open up to some of my friends I found out they really did, and the amount of love and support they have given me in my rough patches sometimes brings me to tears. Depression is a liar and keeps us isolated when we don't need to be.
WeeHuaHua
My friends and I are now able to call each other with stuff like this. But it’s taken 25 years to get to this point. It shouldn’t be this hard.
Freakscar
Exactly. Also, that's precisely why the actual 'toxic masculinity' (and this behaviour is very much textbook definition) as much as it gets thrown around as a buzzword, IS detrimental towards men just as much as it is towards women.
iamlegendinjapan
My mom but 99% of the time no one.
kjtodd11
I call my boys. Their advice is shit but they let me vent and I feel blessed
wabitgirl
Be the person who starts this in your friend group. As a man (yes, I know my username is fucking confusing, but PLEASE trust me on this), I was always incredibly open with my friends, both about my own struggles, and about calling them out when they were silently struggling with them. START. THE. DISCUSSION. It will take time and patience, but we NEED to be there for each other. As these dudes say, no one else will be. Be the friend you needed in your hard times. Call you friends. Love them.
atomfixes101
Y’all can call me
BadTemperedRodent
Yep, THIS right here! It is kinda refreshing and liberating though since I know no one gives a fuck about me, I don't have to give a damn about anyone. The problems I encounter I need to tackle them on my own (which I do successfully) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CreepyPhlox
I’m a lady who went skydiving. My tandem partner told me that men struggled the worst when it was time to jump because they didn’t express their anxiety and nervousness on the way up. He said women would talk the whole time which helped relieve our nerves so when it came time to jump we were better mentally prepared. This applies to anything in life I think.
wazeewa
"They would find a way to use it against me" Wow, that hurts. That hits hard.
doctorId
This used to be me, but I now have a couple of good friends that I began to open up to and found out that yes, they do care. I don't speak for all men and I don't know what each of them is going through, but sometimes when you think "no one cares", that's depression lying to you. If you've tried and not found good responses, I feel for you. But if you haven't tried, just give it a shot, cause sometimes people will surprise you. And always try to be that person for those you care about, because
doctorId
sometimes other people may also be thinking you won't care if they open up. Being that person for someone else can be just what they need to be that person for you.
chaosundivided
for over a decade I was depressed *as fuck*. my nice big living room was so full of garbage that there was a single path from the door to
chaosundivided
the PC, then I could step on the recliner I used as a gaming chair / bed to install my legs in the void under the desk and that's there I'd
chaosundivided
be until I had to go back to work the next day. I owned three shirts and two pairs of jeans, one of which was literally stitched together
chaosundivided
with superglue and abraded my legs whenever I wore it. I had all my food delivered because I couldn't have used the kitchen if I'd wanted to
chaosundivided
and only several years into it did I realize I couldn't remember the last time I owned a comb. what I'm getting at is, people could tell.
Schlagerfuzzi
for the very first time in my whole life that has changed. My now SO does. Took me 51 yrs. There's hope, bros. There's hope.
Zokalwe
Sounds like you're making her do a ton of emotional labor. /s
Schlagerfuzzi
It's not a one way street. It's just that someone is there. Finally.
DaMummy
Misora
Great, but also seriously do not make your SO your ONLY system of emotional support. It can get exhausting for them and also is a a serious cause of major depression and death after the loss of a spouse.
Findrek
Currently working through this with my current SO. Every day I get home they need support and to dump. They'll call their parent and talk about reality TV gossip for 2 hours, then get off the phone and all I get is endless venting. All she ever says is no one else cares or they'll judge her, and she can't do therapy cause her family will judge. Blows my mind how a person can supposedly have mutual love of family, but also believe they cant talk to them or even someone else without judgment.
guyanesebro420
Same. Ive always had family but its just something we shrug off and march on with business as usual. Break down and literally say eh, it'll pass and in 10 mins I'm 'back to normal'. Finding the right S.O does make a monumental difference. There's hope fellas
Enterwittyandfunnyandexpletivedeletednamehere
I tried to call my wife, she called the cops, now I have a years probation...
Nathanyel
Giving me hope at 41.
taez555
Does a bottle of Jack Daniels count?
MantisTobagganMD
No, and alcoholism ideation is toxic.
taez555
Should I quite smoking, overeating and drugs too?
Gerdalearnedme
It may help, just don’t let it bottle do the talking.
IOftenDeleteCommentsCauseISuckAtTyping
My buddy and I have a code. "Hey man, you want to play some games tonight?" It's code to the other that you're going through some shit that you want to talk about without the apparent weakness of saying "I need help."
We have a 100% response rate.
rzlprnft
"You free tonight? I need a beer" is our code.
M4nFle5h
Never realised until like last year that all my gaming sessions with my friend was extremely therapeutic and helpful.
HairyChairstepper
Man. I have reached out at bad times like this and shot down. Granted, it wasn't an established code, and I never explicitly asked for help. I'm surprised I survived those nights, honestly
buffalowineguy
This is it, right here.
TheVoidListens
Love this. Absolutely love this.
VentricularAnomaly
That's such a great idea!
DorkJedi
Made friends online with someone in another country many years ago. Same code. Either of us will instantly load up the game of choice, and we talk about shit while we slaughter noobs.
gamer2k4
All men have a code like that. "Sup." "Sup." is code for "Hey, I'm sorry about what happened. Is everything alright?" "Absolutely, we're good. Thanks for the apology."
Rogerwilco1974
That is awesome. I hope that someday men are able to say "I need help" and not feel like it's a sign of weakness.
zagibu
There is no weakness in saying "I need help", quite the contrary. It requires a strength that most men simply don't have.
philmoregraves
36yr old man. Videos like this helped me to reach out to my brother on occasion when I'm mentally fucked. I still mostly just keep to myself, but I have called, it's helped
Bhargo
yeah I've never understood that "who do you call" thing. nobody, we call nobody, because nobody is going to help because nobody fucking cares.
StopTheWorldIWannaGetOff
Well. I haven't called anyone yet. Does this mean I'm doing GREAT or that I will not call someone?
Wifwolf
That's so fucking sad.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Wifwolf
It wasn't meant mockingly. I really think it's sad that a lot of people don't have people they can talk to. Everyone should have at least one person they can lean on when times are tough
tallyhoho
Yeah their faces when they said that made me cry a little bit. I just want to give every one of them a big hug
unluckyandbored
Sad but true. For me as well. I have no one to talk to. Nobody really gives a fuck. As a man you're expected to suffer in silence.
Wifwolf
Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll find some friends that you can be open with, for your friends really should give a fuck about you, and you should ofc also reciprocate ^^
ChristopherHallett
As a man with clinical depression and suicidal ideation, it's almost entirely self-enforced.
Wifwolf
I'm sorry you feel that way my dude, I hope that your friends and family can help you through this period. Cuz it sounds like you have people but have a hard time reaching out. I believe in you.
ChristopherHallett
You've got that the wrong way around. I'm doing great because I have worked to build a friend base of wonderful caring people who actively support each other. Hence, complaining about "none of my friends give a shit about me" is a self-enforced situation. If they don't care about you, they're NOT your friends, just some people you know.
LCMcG
I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's entirely accurate. I have diagnosed depression and anxiety and before I got low enough to make myself get help, I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone. Yes, technically it was me in my head saying "no one cares, suck it up and deal with it" but you also have to understand that those thoughts aren't voluntary. My logical side knew that I had people to reach out to, but my logical side isn't what's in control in a depressive state./
MantisTobagganMD
I may have read it wrong, but...to me, everything you said was in a agreement with what the other dude said. Self-enforced, meaning you were the one putting the restrictions on yourself, as you said.
LCMcG
To add to that, I know men who aren't diagnosed and will refuse to be seen by a doctor because they, like most men, were raised to believe that if you have a problem, it's *your* problem. *You* need to deal with it like a man. And not just from parents or family or friends, but society as a whole has supported that idea for a long time. It's hard to overcome conditioning like that, and nearly impossible to do it alone like we've been led to believe we are.
ChristopherHallett
I was the same, my old "friends" weren't actually friends. Thinking that people I'd grown up with who liked the same things as me were my friends was a huge mistake. They didn't give a shit about me, they just liked hanging out with me. I went and got myself new friends.
Larktonguesinadicecup
Sure, but it's also *dangerous*.
liveOffOfDownVotes
Right? who is the one that let out that males have feelings
Wifwolf
How is it "dangerous"?
ScottNapalm
Because people with decades of bottled up emotions and completely unaddressed trauma and/or mental health issues are at elevated risk of harming themselves and/or others, or engaging in behavior that puts themselves or others at risk
Larktonguesinadicecup
That's on an individual level, which can be bad enough and lead to mass shootings and such, but having a critical mass of socially disconnected young men in your society also presents a social danger. They form or join dangerous ideologies. Radical islam is in great part driven by what could reasonably be termed incel culture, and similar phenomena is happening in India and parts of Africa, as well as with the far right in the US. Too many unhappy men in your culture, you're *fucked*.
Toqom
And when you see the rest of the world and how it works, who the fuck wants help? I'm hoping an illness takes me out, get things looked at? Hell no, let me off this fucked up rock
Wifwolf
Ah, the bottled up and exploding thing that can happen. True, that can be very messy, which is one of the reasons it's so sad that they don't have people they trust enough to lean on.
Decitron
We can change this. Make sure your friends/ fam know you can be that person, & make sure you ARE that person. The real ones will reciprocate
jenw
I find that showing my own vulnerabilities to others, helps open that bridge. When I notice someone is aching to vent, I start first. Trauma bonding is an incredible thing.
BellicoseAlgorithm
Indeed. I let go of my ego in my late twenties. If someone uses that vulnerability against you, then f**k 'em. Cut toxic people out. No excuses. We're only led to believe no cares. Look around here. So many do. You just have to believe them when they say it and not let you brain tell you otherwise.
Misora
This. My bf says he has nobody but me to talk about his problems to. But when his friends call him and they're having a bad time he's not supportive of them. Like why would you expect people to be there for you when you're turning around telling them to 'man up'. I drove 2 hours to support a friend who was having issues. She'd do the same for me in a heart beat.
Decitron
I got people. I don't hang out with the ones who want everyone to bottle up, or exploit vulnerability. Be a real one. Be with real ones.
VentricularAnomaly
Not to draw away from the men here who need and DESERVE emotional support and compassion, but I'm a woman and when I'm at my lowest I don't call or contact anyone either. Depression isolates you.
Sabertron14
Same. I'm a lady and have been depressed and isolated for 20+ years. There's not a single person to reach out to other than my SO, who is great and supportive but being the ONLY person to do so puts a ton of weight on him. I shoulder his emotional weight as well but it's the same problem, we need a bigger support system.
prosper020
Yeah… it’s an insidious symptom of the condition. Might be why guys don’t reach out? Already feeling like they should isolate because depression, topped with societal norms of “guys don’t have feelings”. Either way, the depression alone makes lifting your phone feel like lifting a car when it’s to look for help.
Aaronyuri
Men don't reach out because there is a societal stigma that men should be able to cope and handle things by themselves. Both in that you will appear "weak" for struggling, and you will then be ridiculed by others for attempting to reach out. Men also don't help themselves by continuing to buy into this view and ridiculing others out of their own insecurities. Man up - the two most damaging words a young man ever hears.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Why the FUCK did it post 7 times??????
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
prosper020
Yarp. I was talking with my therapist yesterday about that. And about how women do a similar echo chamber when it comes to looks. Quick very crude example: men typically don’t care if you ware the same dress to a different event last month. They like the dress and they like you. In no way a victim blame to anyone. Just a symptom of a system that is so broken that even the oppressed think they deserve the oppression.
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
It's even worse than that too, because women will say they want you to open and emotionally vulnerable but then leave you when being emotionally available ruins their idea of manliness. The people we trust the most are the ones who truly care the least most of the time.
ChristopherHallett
That's a very incel thing to say.
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
That's a very incel thing to say.
ChristopherHallett
Genius!
buffalowineguy
Yep. It's unfair as fuck.
Sabertron14
I'm so sorry that's been your experience, that really sucks and I hope you find someone better. Don't hold it against all women, many of us are more than willing to help out our SOs emotionally. My partner and I are eathothers support system and I honestly never thought I'd have one but here we are.
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
I'd never hold it against all women, I still try my best, and stay respectful. It just hurts to be afraid that opening up to the person I love might make them stop loving me
Sabertron14
I know exactly how that feels and I'm so sorry you're going through it too. Meeting the right people seems so hard these days despite how much more our society is "connected" than it used to be, e.g. the internet and social media. It's maddening, really, lol. I really hope you find the right one, I wish you the best.
VentricularAnomaly
Sounds like you need better people in your life *hug*
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
It surely couldn't hurt any.
VentricularAnomaly
We do exist! Many are introverts though, so harder to wrangle, but worth it!
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
I know the struggle myself, as an introvert.
MasterMookie
Oh yes I remember crying once in my first relationship. Found her laptop open once when I woke up in the middle of the night. Found messages of her shit-talking about me with her friend.
BaklavaWearingBalaclavaWhilePlayingBalalaikaOnBlackLava
My first girlfriend cheated on me with 4 different guys, I know the pain. She was my best friend for almost a decade before we started dating. 3 months later, I was trying to forget that I knew her.
MasterMookie
Oh no worries she cheated on me a few months later.
TheMobilePengwing
H man that is fucking low, you definitely did not deserve that. I hope you found someone better.
MasterMookie
I mean yes but it ended. Way better than the first and didn't end in despair. Tears sure but we both agreed.
Sabertron14
Honest curiosity, did she show signs of being that shitty before hand or did she seem like the girl next door type until you saw what she wrote?
MasterMookie
Girl next door. Men showing emotion is unmanly you know. We're supposed to be a strong expendable workforce.
Sabertron14
Man that sucks, I'm sorry. Speaking as a lady, not all of us think like that. I hope you find one that treats you the way you deserve. *virtual hug*
WeatherWiz
But honestly, men’s mental health is one of the most overlooked things we still have to fix.
damogen
In Encanto, Luisa was originally a man, in order to highlight this issue. But was changed to a woman because some women also have this issue that 90% of all men struggle with
AnApologeticCanadian
My father still mocks the fact that I go to therapy.
SoberAndBored
I went to my GP and told her I'm tired all the time, I have trouble getting to sleep and staying asleep, I've lost all interest in my hobbies, apart from drinking, I'm feeling low all of the time, I'm gaining weight cos I eat so much all the time, I'm always stressed and angry. She said it sounds like an iron deficiency and sent me for a battery of blood tests that showed everything's fine (which was kinda a suprise to me) and she said that we'd repeat them in a year.
TogeEpine
As someone with depression and anxiety: it sounds like you have depression at the minimum (and maybe anxiety depending on your feelings of stress and how often/severe). If your GP didn't look at that angle you need to seek out a new GP. You gave her a list of symptoms, she ran a test that said her guess was wrong and then did nothing. Definitely go back and let them know that something is still wrong. It is hard but stand up for your health. You shouldn't have to live for a year with your >
TogeEpine
symptoms and no treatment.
gobby
Considering what we do when we are sad, I'd say yes
CloudStrife668
I do tend do some weird stuff when I am sad. Except with me it looks more like I am pissed off....
FutureBeachBum
And more successfully than women, statistically. 🤣😐😭
zombiebatman
It’s true. It goes:
1. That one wheel on shopping carts
2. Men’s mental health
lljkstonefish
Hah, I'm immune! I don't have any mental health.
backrideup9
Bruh, there are 2 things on Earth that could solve all problems: money and men getting therapy. And even the money problem is a side effect of men's poor mental health. See : Putin, Trump, Musk, Netanyahu, Un, Hitler, Stalin and on and on and on throughout all of history. Probably time to give the women a chance.
CaptainQuarkk
shoe0nhead made a good video on it abt 4 months ago. Asmongold, gremlin that he usually is, also had some great input.
LaronX
Society is doing both men and women injustice by pretending like there are vast gaps in our emotions and needs. We all just want to feel loved, like we have a purpose and like we make a difference. It isn't about genitals, but post war patriachale systems have done so much damage it will take generations to fix the shit. We are all people, if we pretend like one half of society is lesser or one half can't feel it will continue to hurt us all.
RandyRandalman
Bingo.
Akurei00
Agreed. It isn't that we don't have similar needs, it's that we're treated differently. Women receive more physical adoration; men receive more professional. Men are shamed for opening up; it's expected from women. Etc.
This comes back to the differences in equality vs equity. Both sex's basic needs are mostly equal, but our societal needs are often quite different.
DarkBusterBaron
I heard a quote from somewhere women are drowning in the ocean while men are dehydrated in a desert. They have a completely disproportionate amount of attention.
keoghberry
Yep, this is exactly why it's said that toxic masculinity hurts men as well as women.
insertwittyjoke
People really need to understand that you're never going to help men as long as phrases like "toxic masculinity" are in use. Toxic masculinity, regardless of intention, is always going to be read as positioning men and their personal relationship to masculinity as the problem and immediately puts men in a negative position of either having to defend themselves or of having to take personal responsibility for wider societal problems in order to seek help.
Foxsayy
I hate using the term "Toxic Masculinity" because it wrongly maximizes attention on male negative actions & responsibility for the "patriarchy", and other issues, draws away from thinking about social issues more in womens' hands,& results in both having more onus on men when they're largely class and cultural biases perpetuated by men AND women. E.g., many women WILL see a man crying as weak, and saying "fucking open up if you want to do better" isn't helpful when we've tried & found that out
valkrez
Go to a therapist
valkrez
Shocking, I suggest men seek therapy and get down-voted and reported. Definitely not an indication of how you breed your own problems.
Browndogdown
I see you fall under the "If men would just stop being so stupid and toxic and seek help, they wouldn't have these problems." category. It's very easy to say it's someone's own fault instead of stepping back and saying "Hey maybe the last twenty years of telling men that they're all monsters, abusers, r*pists, and that opening up about their interests is mansplaining has taken a toll on a group of young men who have only ever known this world and we need to make a societal change."
[deleted]
[deleted]
acuteavocado7
how can you stop something you never started?
anjeleyezjr
You can work to change the standards that cause the issues while still encouraging someone to seek out help to cope with the damages caused, you know. No need to attack someone for giving a good piece of advice.
Affray
1)It frustrates me that I can't take my nieces to the park without being hawk watched by every single other person like I'm a pedophile by
Affray
2)default. I can't complain about it either because "people are just looking out for kids", which is great, but isn't great when I'm an
Affray
3)assumed threat based on my gender alone.
bekkayya
how wildly irresponsible to blame all the problems that men have on non-men calling out the frequency of their abuse.
MD762708
In my university a female feminist prof told us that special activities for male students to find fellowship is sexist. East coast USA.
JericoJones23
In some "feminist" circles, saying "men" is offensive. They say something like "non female" or something.
amb1021
Citation?
JericoJones23
My cousin who has a femisint activist told me about them. Cant find anything in the web though. Also don't quite understand why I got downvoted, but hey, its in the internet.
Godryc
Because you were citing an anecdote as evidence. Basically you were saying "this is how it is" instead of saying "I have heard that...". https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
ArrogantLoudMouthedBother
monjamon
Bc she's a sexist
Foxsayy
Male-specific spaces are generally attacked, and for some reason women-only facilities are celebrated. Yet at the same time, men are also pushed to open up to others and other men, find better community and fellowship, etc. It's like society has labeled men inherently untrustworthy and shouldn't be allowed to gather and socialize in the same ways as women, and wholly blame men for their issues while shunning most actions, movements, and spaces that could alleviate the problems.
anjeleyezjr
Sounds like she isn't a feminist, but a female supremicist. They are the biggest reason feminism has such a bad rep.
ButLogicallyTho
Toxic feminism is a huge part of whats creating the male crisis
WeatherWiz
Well then she’s not a feminist then.
hardytardigrade
That depends a lot on what was said. If it pertained to mental health and emotional support, men need more of that. If it was about forming social and societal connections with each other, men already have more of that.
MD762708
Them literally belittling the faculty member trying to help men was a shit move in either case. And you are wrong. Many men are isolated. Well documented. Diminishing that was wrong (for them and you.)
hardytardigrade
Yes, many men are isolated. But generally speaking, men are better interconnected in terms of business and societal power. There's a reason why the term "old boy network" exists and doesn't really have a female equivalent. I hear what you are saying, and it sounds from your account that this situation didn't have to do with societal power, but there is also a context where adding a men's group would contribute to societal sexism.
SkamanSam
I took a gender studies course at uni, expecting my mind to be expanded a bit, but my prof was so closed minded it was insane. I was the only straight white male in my class and she always called on me "to get a man's opinion." I told her the women around me had more stereotypical male views than I did but she wouldn't listen. She was only there one semester, I can only guess cuz she was not about equality, but women's superiority.
B99Reactions
She is definitely, she just isnt an egalitarian
MD762708
It's on her vita and courses, lol. Point is, fanatics like her are a problem, though they cloak themselves in the mantle of piety.
WeatherWiz
Real feminists want equality and for women to be treated fairly. Not to see everything a man does being sexist.
MD762708
I agree entirely. Point being, that the "war against boys" is real and sadly carried out by very progressive people who see social advancement as some sort of competition. And use a crude power binary to decide that men have power and hence cannot be victimized or left behind in this way. I work with them every day. Sometimes it's like some sort of Fox news caricature of academe that gained sentience.
wuf1979
And we hear that No, it's all of our fault so we should shut up and stop whining and be real men. Wait... isn't that the problem that we are trying to be "real men"? Women do hear when they are growing up to be more "ladylike" but they never hear "be a real woman". We do. What is a "real man" anyway? One not made of plastic or cardboard? Nvm. I'm okay. I'm fine.
JericoJones23
Shut up and stop whining about this/s
wuf1979
Shayceror
I can assure you many women are told to act/look/behave like a real woman if they deviate in any way from traditional gender roles.
amb1021
Women are absolutely told that if we don't cook or clean or have kids or whatever we are not "real women."
Foxsayy
I think it's difficult to experience the world how the opposite sex does, and both men and women struggle against societal enforcement of gender roles, and I think it's important to acknowledge that. Men and women *can*, in principle, be in this together, for male and female issues.
What I think is telling is that there's no "toxic feminity," or similar acknowledgement, which isn't only representative of a large bias, but implicitly seems to assign societal agency to men and less to women.
wuf1979
Very in depth. You are 100% right
scellers
There absolutely is toxic feminism and TERFs and many other (deserved or undeserved) criticisms of feminity and feminism.