pilomotor
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Jul 25, 2025 5:32 AM
pilomotor
22946
563
3
ThadisJones
I thought the Man Date of Heaven was when I asked out a girl that turned out to be a very fem presenting guy and we had a great time but I guess your metric for this might vary a bit
KilroyLichking
i think the mandate of heaven one is more "do a good job ruling or i'll make you a fish for a thousand years so that you can learn to appreciate water".... but I may have watched too many asian dramas centered around the celestial bureaucracy
WellAckchually
While this is true, the Mandate of Heaven was also used in its corollary: god has not killed me, so I am doing a good job. And then it is basically the Divine Right of Kings.
DiracsDelta
Another big difference is does the king control the power of the church or does the king fear the power of church. You can lose the Mandate of Heaven when the populace believe you betrayed the will of the god(s), usually as expressed by the church, but if you are the pope of your own religion and your people think god tells you what to do then you have a lot less risk.
dreyfusslugado
So we need a guillotine labeled "The Mandate of Heaven".
TotallyNotASerialKiller
The answer is always yes to any question that starts with “Do we need a guillotine…” these days.
keillrandor
There's a reason the western countries went for the Divine Right Of Kings (that the US GOP wants back...)
MeestowKitty
Cause the Eastern Monarchies are so well known for their human rights. Why specify Western as if its the only place that had such problems?
keillrandor
Because the Mandate From Heaven was never a 'Western' thing - just a simple distinction.
TattoosAndTENS
Nobliesse Obligé is French for Riot Insurance
Kurayami10
Completely underrated comment — I snort-laughed & woke my dog up at threat level red.
TattoosAndTENS
Thanks babe
Remember, we could do a LOT for climate change if we ate just ONE billionaire
supervillin
So when the GOP keeps saying "Trump has a mandate..."
Ilikedyourimage
And here's why that is:
ulfgarBentbeak
While having a basis in truth, the difference in the river systems is not where the different phrases come from. It's a difference in individualism vs. Collectivism. Both phrases are designed to justify action, but who's actions have to be justified depends on who's agency is weighted for. In western tradition, it's the individual. So the Divine Right to Rule is developed to justify the King's agency. In Eastern tradition, it's collective action. So the Mandate of Heaven is developed to 1/
WhoWantsAMustacheRide
Individualism vs. Collectivism is an outdated social theory about the "Orient". The divisions between West and East are a colonial construct to justify the West imagining itself as superior. China is not at all the same as Sri Lanka, but "Eastern tradition" lumps it all together.
ulfgarBentbeak
1: everyone I have talked to who has lived in both China and the West has reiterated the different emphasis, including a Chinese language teacher from China I had in high school. It's not overpowering, but it is there. 2: I don't know many who lump India and Sri Lanka in with China and Southeast Asia. They are usually considered their own thing distinct from either western or eastern. Sometimes termed "South Central Asian".
ulfgarBentbeak
justify the actions of the collective people in overthrowing a poor ruler. Both are focusing on the same problem; a poor ruler inflicting hardship on their subjects to pay for their excesses. Because the each see the onus of action differently, different entities need to justify/validate their actions. so they come at the problem from different angles. 2/2
bippityboppitybuttsex
From the Wiki: The Mandate of Heaven is a Chinese philosophical concept that describes the divine source of authority for rulers. It suggests that Heaven (Tian), the natural order and will of the universe, grants emperors the right to rule based on their virtue and ability to govern justly and effectively. If a ruler becomes corrupt or incompetent, Heaven can withdraw its mandate, leading to natural disasters, rebellions, and the eventual downfall of the dynasty.
So, yes, this is accurate.
WhoWantsAMustacheRide
The Mandate of Heaven is a bit of a propaganda stunt to legitimize the new regime, after an old dynasty is overthrown. This started at the very beginnings of written history as the Zhou legitimized their overthrowing of the Shang. The tradition carried on, but it was esp. the Han dynasty that solidified it.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Right, but it can be revoked... and is, regularly... if you cannot keep the gods at bay, then it is clear that mandate has been withdrawn...
The divine right of kinds is never withdrawn... it just is... cuz of who your dad was.
WhoWantsAMustacheRide
Right, I mean we understand the ideological logic, but critically speaking, there have been many rebellions and so on that didn't lead to dynastic change. "Oh Mandate still there." So whoever wins gets to say they have the Mandate.
ApplesdaKitty
so hurricanes are natural disasters. seems a good reason as any, I suppose.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I mean, it is literally an Act of God, for insurance purposes, so, yes.
ApplesdaKitty
oh no, an earthquake or a hurricane, or a tornado, "bang!"
bippityboppitybuttsex
If he really had the Mandate of Heaven, there would be no hurricanes or tornadoes
ApplesdaKitty
or just a revolving door of people who want to wear the hat.
VictusVonGuyver
Yeah, in the Rotk novels, the mandate of heaven is a big background thing, along with the imperial seal.
Both things are pretty important in Chinese culture. The CCP in particular wants to secure any and all imperial seals. They have always been afraid of having someone claim that "they have the mandate of heaven" if they hold the old imperial seals.
They also have a huge distrust against religion. Not just because of Communism stating that it needs to be eliminated, but also because of >
VictusVonGuyver
Hong Xiuquan, a guy who led a religious and minority rebellion against imperial Chinese rule. That's partly why the Chinese surpress the Tibetans and the Uyghurs with mass killings and re-education.
BrdCdn
Nah that's just because of garden variety Han Chinese racism and China's longstanding practice of ethnic cleansing and culturally genociding anything not Han Chinese as they've expanded over time.
VictusVonGuyver
Not going to deny that it isn't a part of it. Current modern day China does have 52 minority populations. The ethnic cleansing isn't as heavy as some countries, not that it's much of a consolation to those subjugated populations.
BrdCdn
It's pretty damn heavy if you consider those minorities were once majorities across broad stretches of current China and now are minorities even at a local level.
BlindGardener
Mandate of Heaven: If you fuck up as king, then disasters (famine, earthquakes, etc) gonna happen and it’s the right of your subjects to rebel. If no disasters are happening your subjects have no right to complain.
Divine Right of Kings: If you fuck up at king, the church is gonna come for your ass. So long as the church is on your side, your subjects have no right to complain.
VaultGirl69
Monarchies are just for show. Like padding between the people and aristocracy.
SithElephant
#2 avoid the church rocking your shit by starting your own church.
KuroFluff
Don't forget, if an earthquake happens *just* after you get in power, that's heaven saying "You did good! Let's party!"
MaaxximumHaamster
I’m gonna complain anyway.
KilroyLichking
this is why in ck3 i dedicated myself to subsuming the Vatican, exiling the pope who then conveniently died in a hunting accident. This allowed my to inherit all of his titles. I reformed Christianity to something more exciting fracturing the catholic world and i declared crusades eliminating enclaves of the old faith. Interestingly this turned the game into kill lesser pope wack-a-mole for 150 years but i got there eventually.
Malloon
Pope Fights! What If Edition.
tavinjer
… Citizen Kane 3.
cullingg
.... rose bud...
euphoricopportunity
I played about twenty minutes of tutorial, got overwhelmed, and stopped.
KilroyLichking
ngl it is a lot of levers and nobs. full disclosure i don't play the game like normal people i play it to break history and then watch what happens. sorta like lets kill Hitler but sub hitler with Charlemagne. one of the funnier things i did was take an African Islamic kingdom and conquer Ireland, iceland, norway in the 900's things got really weird really fast because of how many wires and heirs my og had when he died
IKnowWhatsInPandorasBox
Love that game but all roads always seem to lead to incest 😂
KilroyLichking
as was the style at the time
stauffalopagus
Beautiful. I didn’t even know games like this existed.
EmporerDragon
Paradox is the king of games like this. You've got Crusader Kings for medieval intrigue, Europa Universalis for the Age of Discovery & nation-building, Victoria for the Industrial Revolution, and Hearts of Iron for empire shattering World Wars. For some Youtubers that make videos on these games, I personally like Red Hawk, Laith, Quarbit, and ISorrowProductions.
illhaveaguinness
And Stellaris!
Einstein9073
People who like this genre call it Grand strategy. People who don't like this genre call it map painting game
Zzap1
Map painting game with menues, a few extra menues, and a sprinkling side of even more menues
Lutki
Dont forget the incest and the infanticide
KilroyLichking
oh man crusader kings is great. another playthrough i started as Anglo Saxons in 1050 and assassinated William the Conqueror before he launched the invasion across the channel. Normans descend into a succession war across the channel and Harold takes all Britany, Ireland and Norway
darkoshen
Oh, nice. What happened with Harald Hardraada?
KilroyLichking
befriended through marriage schemes then assassinated him and his heirs leaving my dynasty to inherit his titles