chukyrlaw
82085
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Oct 23, 2023 5:23 PM
chukyrlaw
82085
1523
79
AbtachaAboma
Funny how everyone is blaming Israel for being attacked. Fuck imgur.
SendMeYourBeautifulActsOfKindness
At least have the balls to condemn the killers... Like these are your people not some unnamed NPCs.
AdventureBat
Violence, like any language, involves bartering - I do things I think you understand, vice versa, and so forth. With violence you barter yourself as part of the exchange. Unfortunately, by identifying themselves with a party of innocents, they have been included unwillingly in the deal being made.
yatasima
A report by IMPACT-se contains UNRWA-produced educational literature “material that calls for jihad, violence and martyrdom, promotes anti-Semitism and propagates hatred, intolerance and lack of neutrality.” ( source: https://www.audiatur-online.ch/2022/07/12/beobachtungsstelle-unrwa-lehrbuecher-enthalten-immer-noch-hass-und-antisemitismus/ )
Mind about whose news you are sharing, as you may also be appropriating their other content.
Rulweylan
https://unwatch.org/un-admits-palestinians-fired-rockets-unrwa-schools/
Doggowhisperer23
Do something about it then!!!
Evenstevensteve
They are making it increasingly harder to peacefully protest the occupation and Israels crimes. The BDS movement is illegal in a lot of US states, Germany and even France I think. People have started to loose there jobs for simply tweeting "Stop the war crimes on both sides". Some mostly on the right in the media are calling peaceful protesters today "Hamas lover " "antisemites"and "racists". The fascists are calling the people who want to end the violence Nazis. Fuck this planet.
TheOneGalen
I'm hoping this post title is sarcasm
Rulweylan
It is, but only because the poster hasn't been paying attention. https://unwatch.org/un-admits-palestinians-fired-rockets-unrwa-schools/
Lexgeddon
It is.
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SeeShark
You have no idea how Judaism works and assume it has the same shitty attitudes towards death that Christianity does.
AyatollahBahloni
Upvoting for awareness, but this is terribly sad.
MadCat221
chukyrlaw
Hello to Jason Isaacs
LadyRex
Him in that uniform made me feel things.
khora
An urge to seize the means of production?
Arkandos
An urge to kick the nazis out of your country?
khora
An urge to invade Poland together with nazis?
NothingWeAre
But what course of cations would be appropriate after terrorist attack and territory incursion ?
zombiejedediah
Exactly. After decades of terrorist attacks & no end in sight, Hamas did what they always said they would. Fight back. If a terrorist occupier killed my family, I doubt I would have the restraint NOT to join the ones that fight back, no matter how unpleasant they are.
JamShady
How about not occupying them for decades and following international law regarding settlements for starters?
sassyclassykickassy
Certainly not all the war crimes they’ve committed, both before and after Oct 7.
AceOfShovels
Lol "what ELSE should I do when I'm crushing someone's neck under my boot and they decide to fight for their life? Better kill them, their kids and their neighbors"
kadaeux
Don’t forget their dog, it might yelp when kicked
Eypisod
I feel an upvote is not appropriate, but here we are
OhIfIMust
Upvote for awareness.
Vorphalack
Upvotes are for messengers, not messages.
chukyrlaw
For solidarity perhaps here
Vorphalack
No doubt, but my point stands. Punishing a good-faith messenger on an open message board constitutes a category error.
chukyrlaw
Up vote...down vote. It's hardly punishing. Unless you're completely lily livered
Vorphalack
I’m talking in-game here. In this limited sphere, downvotes aren’t a reward, but rather its opposite (except for macaroni-fork guy, maybe).
chukyrlaw
Well I think some view this kind of post as anti Israel, or even antisemitic, and down vote it. So go figure that
KaptainObveeus
Jews are cool, fuck Israel
Vorphalack
I say the equation “critique of Israel=antisemitism” is itself antisemitic. It’s basically cultural appropriation by in-group cynics.
AdventureBat
I also do not think people fully understand what is happening. This is bible-level violence. The leadership will walk backward into the Hague, smiling, with a wheelbarrow of deceased. They believe they are among the ranks of Joshua and the Davidic line. "War crimes" aren't the exception, they are the intent.
StormofWyverns
Bold of you to assume that anyone in Israel will be called for trial in The Hague.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
At the least the USA would first obliterate the Hague if the client state of Israel had even a hint of sending someone like netty there, chances are he'd spill on American war crimes in the area too.
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thechelonianshelmet
You might want to ask Meirav Ben-Ariher where she keeps her swastika then, after all apparently 2 year old Gazans, etc have only themselves to blame: /gallery/XZBD6HU
Doctorfatherson
Many many Jewish people are disgusted by Israel's actions. Even some living in Israel.
Justwarlockthings
beeeeeeerkaaaaa
Criticism of Israel's war crimes and genocide is not antisemitism.
StormofWyverns
Some folks have a hard time understanding that Israel doesn’t represent either Judaism or Jews, partially from Israeli propaganda.
BrockEffingSamson
Holy shit dude. "We don't like that civilian relief workers were killed" reads as Nazi propaganda to you? How far up your own ass do you have to be to associate Naziism with *avoiding* civilian deaths?
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BrockEffingSamson
Perhaps you should comment on those posts, then. Or post damning screenshots here to illustrate your point. But your comment in a vacuum is FUCKING MONSTROUS.
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BrockEffingSamson
Hey, guess what? If you're trying to convince us that you're the good guy and OP is the bad guy, then openly lying about the content of their post, a post I can just scroll up and reread, is just about the stupidest strategy you could have come up with.
LostCaterpillar
You'll have to be more specific. There's been several hospitals bombed and, to my knowledge, Israels's only blamed one of them on Hamas so you might want to check *which* hospital they are complaining about being attacked before you rush to say "fake news." Unless "fake news" is just how you respond to any new you don't like. Then I guess you do you?
StormofWyverns
They seem to be deepthroating the boot of Israeli/US propaganda which is desperately trying to pretend that Israel is not overreacting in the extreme and committing war crimes.
sassyclassykickassy
Cognitive abilities aren’t your strong suit huh? It’s okay, not everyone is capable of critical thinking and you…common sense.
StormofWyverns
Checking their post history, they are what we might call “Blue MAGA”, so hardly a surprise.
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Dracon27
So, you hate muslims, like you claim OP hares jewish people?
sassyclassykickassy
Either way, a bigot.
StormofWyverns
Ah yes, a “leftist” supporter of the colonial state of Israel, good one. Thanks I needed a good laugh today.
TheBlackSonOfTheHonestMan
They learned from US police.... yeah... "sprinkle some Hamas on them"......
Rulweylan
https://unwatch.org/un-admits-palestinians-fired-rockets-unrwa-schools/
TheBlackSonOfTheHonestMan
So? Islamic Jihad: "Just sprinkle some Hamas on them, we good."
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
The police in america learn from Israel. Literally the idf trained American cops.
TheBlackSonOfTheHonestMan
I would not be surprised
UnknownParticipant67
This is my first awareness of the existence of an organization called unrwa. whatever it is, sucks that they lost those people.
SeeShark
It is the only UN agency with a mission that only includes one group, because despite the much worse conditions affecting other, larger groups, this is the one the UN Human Rights Council always fixates on. Completely coincidentally, the UN Human Rights Council is typically headed by Islamic governments.
kadaeux
Yeah good luck proving that there are other groups with an average age of 18 and a lifespan not much higher that is routinely bombed into the Stone Age by its nuclear neighbour.
SeeShark
I'm not saying Palestine doesn't need help. However, it is singularly focused on by the UN Human Rights arm. Did you know that Israel is the subject of more UN HRC condemnation than the rest of the world COMBINED? Saudi Arabia genociding Yemen, North Korea genociding itself, half of Africa with a median age under 20... and all of that is less important than Palestine? Does that sound remotely reasonable to you?
kadaeux
Yes. It is more reasonable. Africa is failing through its own ineptitudes, North Korea has declared itself separate and can wipe itself out without being worth mourning. Palestine is actively being driven back again and again into the Stone Age by Israel, it’s constantly being invaded by state funded and protected colonists, it constantly puts conditions on peace nobody would tolerate, it *deliberately* allowed this to happen so they could commit genocide again.
So yes. Palestine needs it more.
Rulweylan
They're a UN group noted for repeatedly promising to stop their staff from telling kids that suicide bombing is good and Jews are evil but never quite getting around to it. https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Report-UNRWA.pdf
rezexelon
My mom refuses to accept the concept that Israel can be Jews and War Criminals at the same time because they are god's chosen people. We've interestingly not been talking much lately.
ClemFandangle
I always laugh at the gods chosen people bit. Gave them the only rock in the Middle East without any oil. Allowed through inaction millions of them to be slaughtered. Not how I’d show my love for a particular demographic as an all powerful being.
OhIfIMust
Um, I'm pretty sure the Bible makes a point of talking a lot about how wayward (to put it mildly) Israel was always being, *despite* being the chosen people and all. I'm *also* pretty sure that when it talks about everyone fighting against Israel in the end, it never actually makes it clear that Israel's supposed to be the *good guys* in that war. Maybe it does, I dunno, I'm not a Bible scholar...
TinyBadger101
Most Jews look at it as a history of the Jewish people. They're the victors, which doesn't make them the good guys. It's also not a moral guide; genocide is bad. But most Christians have this weird fixation on using the Bible to define morals so here we are.
AbtachaAboma
Funny how people make "them jew" the bad guys literally days after they got their 9/11 while everyone was still at the US side even years after theirs (and horrible war crimes as well). It's only war crimes if Israel does it because [checks new] ... oh yes, jews. They really should just be there and take the missles and not be annoying. [in case some of you are daft, that was sarcasm]. Hamas is the only side responsible for this. We all should be glad Israel is holding back, because it is.
rezexelon
I'm pretty sure the same people that are saying Israel shouldn't be doing war crimes are the same people that are saying the US shouldn't be doing war crimes as well. Probably the same people that are saying the US shouldn't do a lot of the shit the US does in fact.
AbtachaAboma
Nah, as per usual a lot of twats come out of the woodworks just because it's the middle east (once fucking again).
Animorphs
She believes in irrational nonsense, it's not surprising that she's also stupid.
DarthWhatsHisFace
I sympathize, I stopped talking to my mother over a year and a half ago for very similar reasons. God forbid a conversation have any kind of nuance to it.
SergeyPrkl
There is no Gods.
makesyougohm
I've been NC with my mother for several years. It started with lies then she found religion then more lies (there is so much more I won't get into). Her biggest lesson growing up was she "has no use for liars" yet she can't understand why I want nothing to do with her.
Heavenissize17socks
Tell her that Hamas was trained and funded by Israeli officials who wanted an excuse to take back the Gaza Strip.
mayodash
Do you also believe 9/11 was an inside job? And is the Earth flat? I just want to understand how you think. Because in 20 years, I've never entertained the idea that 9/11 was an inside job and I got my covid vaccine, but as soon as I heard about the Hamas attack I could not believe they could've done this and even if they could, how could it have been a "surprise" attack, it's not possible. And the Israeli women's testimonies I've heard don't line up with what the media said about the attack
HsuDoNihm
"Mom, remember King Saul? Remember how he was God's chosen king, but also a shitbag? Same here."
Rebelske
Mother in law here. I don't talk about that subject with her. But I rather do keep talking with her, because ultimately the only way to resolve issues is to stay in contact imho.
MAN9000
I grieve the loss of my mother nearly every day. She tries not to talk about it, but she is so wrapped up in conspiracies, religion, hate, and fear mongering that it just slips out. + Even though I went to a Christian University, she's critical of me when having an education because it's part of "the liberal agenda." My dad is quiet about it, but believes the same. Makes be feel ill to be around my parents.
Rebelske
I am sorry for you.
vegivamp
Admirable, but one day you will have no choice but to accept that sometimes, the other party simply isn't interested in resolving issues.
Rebelske
Of course you are right. And then it'll be up to me to decide how I want to deal with it.
rezexelon
Sadly, the ONLY things my mom wants to talk about are politics and religion. Like, those are the ONLY things.
Rebelske
That sucks for you.
rezexelon
Even worse is that my sister went hard core conspiracy theorist and is sort of the same, but with conspiracies. So I live 1.5 miles apart and we never really see each other. It really sucks since I wish me and my daughter could see their kids at least.
Rebelske
This is very sad, I am sorry for you.
Predicto
I sincerely doubt Israel was targeting United Nations relief workers. But indiscriminate bombing is going to get some of every group of civilians, not just Hamas members. That's not better.
coderay
Not that I'm defending them... but Hamas takes advantage of this intentionally by locating themselves in close proximity to civilian groups. It's a no-win situation.
GrayWhiteWolf
We've been playing this charade for 75 years.
You say hamas is a terrorist organization. Ok fine. I am with you on that.
They take civilians hostages or hide among civilians/children. Then those civilians need to be rescued not bombed to death.
It's very clear that Israel does not consider Palestinians as human.
StormofWyverns
And that’s why Indiscriminate Attack is a war crime
DanOrtega
yeeaah at this point am not so sure. The "oopsie I killed international workers because they were potential witnesses of war crimes" is part of the same playbook that Putin is reading.
mayodash
The Russian army has killed ~10,000 Ukrainian civilians in the past 1.5 years. Israeli army has killed ~5000 Palestinian civilians in the past 16 days.. I doubt they're targeting anything if they're hitting everything
cromstantinople
Being indifferent to whom you may kill is no different from killing indiscriminately. The IDF can say they don't target civilians but cutting off food and water to millions of people who were already dependent on foreign aid due to a 17 year blockade is collective punishment, it's a war crime.
DerpMeister
"Indiscriminate"? Hm. The IDF has coined the term "roof knocking", which means that they drop a non-explosive or low-yield device on the roof of a building to warn the residents that a strike against the building is imminent within the next minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking They do this although it warns Hamas terrorists. What does the Hamas in return? They ask the residents to not flee but instead gather on the roof of the building to dissuade the IDF to execute the strike.
blablubby
"However, Amnesty International argued that Hamas' purported call may have been "motivated by a desire to avoid further panic" among civilians, considering both the lack of shelters in Gaza and the fact that some civilians who heeded the IDF's warnings had been casualties of Israeli attacks.[21] Many reporters, including from the BBC,[22] The Independent,[23] and The Guardian[24] have said that they have found no evidence of Hamas forcing Palestinians to stay and become unwilling human shields."
blablubby
How is a civilian supposed to even know let alone correctly identify this "knock"? Not sure how many bomb shelters Gaza has, or how the metro system is doing over there, but if bombs are flying, my first instinct would not be to run out into the open.
DerpMeister
In contrast to what Hamas wants you to believe, Gaza is not an urban battlefield where grenades and bombs are being dropped everywhere, day and night. People still go to work and carry on with their lives. You'll KNOW when a bomb hits the roof of your apartment building, even if it's just a low-yield bomb. The residents know what it means. There's no question about that, not even from Hamas, who, as I said, encourage the residents to go on the roof and sacrifice themselves as human shields.
ahbrannon1
Till the world bans religions this will continue. Who is at fault. It is past time to quit looking for someone to blame and stop killing each other.
SergeyPrkl
You don't need to ban religions. you need propper education only.
ahbrannon1
I don't care how we get rid of them. Lets just do away with in the shortest possible time frame.
AceOfShovels
Religion is a tool for brainwashing and control, and will always seek to dismantle education because the two are antithetical. Just like capitalism and proper regulations, the two cannot exist together without one eventually being eroded away by the other.
kadaeux
Proper education would functionally ban religion.
SergeyPrkl
Naah here in Nordics all religions are ok. they are weirdos, but Ok.
zbobet2012
It's important to note that the EU stopped funding the UNRWA in 2021 ago due to it's close ties to Hamas and it's teaching of hate speech and violence in schools. UNRWA premises have repeatedly been used to launch attacks, and even teh secretary general has had to clamp down: https://press.un.org/en/2015/db151020.doc.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20140819084948/https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/4329">.doc.htm">https://press.un.org/en/2015/db151020.doc.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20140819084948/https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/4329-overwhelming-victory-for-islamists-in-unrwa-union-elections 1/
yatasima
Thought this was a 100% official UN organization. Should check more, they don't always seem to represent UN values: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html / h">N.html">https://www.europarl.europa.e">a> / h">N.html">https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html / https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20233038 / https://www.presseportal.de/pm/112960/4937152
GrayWhiteWolf
It is. UN organizations get questioned by any country that wishes to, and any country is free to increase, reduce or stop funds as they see fit.
Obviously, Israel has a lot more influence on western politics. And they can choke a lot of relief organizations in Palestine.
Nonetheless, UN has condemned Israel several times in the past for killing UN employees.
yatasima
It is legitimate to criticize Israel and its government, their policies provide enough reasons. UNRWA use books in their schools that glorify terrorism, martyrdom and anti-Semitism. Rockets have been found in UNRWA schools several times in previous conflicts and were more or less quietly handed over to Hamas ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War ). This does not seem to be a neutral position that UN organizations should have.
zbobet2012
In short, be careful trusting information sources such as this. Nonetheless it's likely many innocent Palestinians have died, including aid workers.
Zange0
Do you have a source on the EU stopping funding? https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/news/eu-and-unrwa-sign-new-joint11-17_en">https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/news/eu-and-unrwa-sign-new-joint-declaration-marking-50-years-strategic-partnership-2021-11-17_en https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom">-declara">11-17_en">https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/news/eu-and-unrwa-sign-new-joint-declaration-marking-50-years-strategic-partnership-2021-11-17_en https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/european-union-contributes-eur-82-million-unrwa-2023 https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/palestine-occupied-palestinian-territory-west-bank-and-gaza-strip/european-union-contributes-eur-82-million-unrwa-2023-and-reaffirms-commitment-support-palestine_en
yatasima
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210930-eu-makes-unrwa-aid">anges/">https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210930-eu-makes-unrwa-aid-conditional-on-textbook-changes/ / https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html
zbobet2012
https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/09/01/unrwa-head-faces-questions-at-eu-parliament-over-hate-speech-violence-in-palestinian-textbooks/
Chair5768
I didn't see anything in your sources about teaching hate speech and violence in schools, UNRWA premises being used for attacks, the secretary general clamping down, or the EU stopping funding. The first source only has the questioners asking about reported anti-Semitic social media posts by UNRWA workers. The second source only claims that a pro-Hamas voting bloc received the majority vote in a UNRWA union election.
yatasima
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html / h">N.html">https://www.europarl.europa.e">a> / h">N.html">https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html / https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20233038 / https://www.presseportal.de/pm/112960/4937152
Rulweylan
https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Report-UNRWA.pdf
Chair5768
That appears to be a collection of the aforementioned anti-Semitic social media posts that the questioners in the original source were talking about. Some of them mention classroom anti-Semitic classroom materials but (the ones I looked at) only source to social media posts. Also UNWatch is terribly biased and shouldn't be used as a reliable source:
Chair5768
From MediaBiasFactCheck: "According to Sourcewatch, the UN Watch lobby is for the removal of UN personnel who are considered critical of Israel... Further, according to Sourcewatch, UN Watch also is funded by the American Jewish Committee since 2001." So while they might not be wrong, I think their facts need to be checked/filtered through an actual news organization.
Wiesel2000
Noughmad
Yeah, both were elected with majority support. I'd love to paint it as both sides being kidnapped by their governments, but I can't.
Dumdumdurum
The only problem with that is that elections are not exactly equal. The 2006 election was basically forced on Gaza by the US government - the same government that has been indiscriminantly backing Israel and its occupation of Palestine. Hamas didn't win because Palestinians really wanted a fundamentalist, extremist organization as their leaders - they won because they ran on a platform of no corruption and no US influence
MeestowKitty
Except for the fact that Palestine hasn't had an election in nearly 20 years, while Bibi was just reelected in '22, about a year ago since it was in November. So...yeah.
zombiejedediah
If one is "the only functioning democracy in the Middle East", then the voters are to blame. You can't have both.
SeeShark
Palestine DID vote Hamas into power. While there haven't been elections in ages, they have high approval ratings and no real competition.
zombiejedediah
So because Hamas was once elected (never mind that Hamas has since dismantled democracy), all Palestinians are guilty of Hamas's crimes. By that logic, Israeli civilian victims of Hamas attacks are guilty of IDF's crimes.
SeeShark
I didn't say that. I get that we have a disagreement here but you don't have to assume I have all the worst beliefs you have ever encountered on the internet.
softbrickofironfeathers
and why oh why is that in all totalitarian regimes
SeeShark
I'm not talking about Hamas-reported approval numbers. I'm talking about independent polling organizations. Palestinians support Hamas because it resists Israel and is marginally less corrupt at handling aid money than Fatah.
softbrickofironfeathers
JamShady
Err, show me a picture from Israel that even remotely depicts what's depicted in the above image please??
revenantape
Kamasu0Tra
No, you don't understand! The people who have a functioning government that they just voted into power a year ago, and the people who have been ruled by terrorists for nearly 20 years, are in the exact same situations, and neither share any blame, it's just the leaders. The leaders that Israel voted for, mind you, but still, just the leaders!
Colopty
To go with that sentiment: https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/netanyahu-is-the-problem/
SeeShark
1. Palestinians largely support Hamas. It has high approval ratings. And FWIW, it WAS voted into power. 2. Huge numbers of Israelis are demanding Netanyahu resign due to his handling of this whole crisis.
Elkarlo77
Netanyahu could have prevented Hamas in the 80's. They didn't try to work against it as Hamas was undercutting Fatah, which prevented a 2 State solution. Something which neither Netanyahu or Hamas wanted.
jimmyriba
FWIW, HAMAS was voted into power 18 years ago, then proceeded to murder the opposition. And due to the 10-fold population explosion in Gaza, half of Gaza are under 18 i.e. not even born when the last election was held. But still, I haven't seen many voices from Gaza against HAMAS or Islamic Jihad.
SeeShark
I agree completely. It's hard to draw a direct parallel voting-wise, but there's nothing to suggest Hamas DOESN'T have popular support; if anything, all signs suggest that they do.
jimmyriba
There are lots of Israeli voices unequivocably against Netanyahu, I've yet to see voices from Gaza unequivocably renouncing HAMAS.
Rhythmaster
People fleeing shelling and ground invasion and worse don't have time to fucking make statements on social media to help ignorant westerners become educated on their situation. I'm sure you can google it and find tons of Palestinians that hate hamas, maybe videos from before the conflict? Just because you arent hearing it doesnt mean they dont exist.
AceOfShovels
Considering their electricity is cut off, they're being bombed to shit I wouldn't expect to hear much
jimmyriba
Their electricity supply *from Israel* is cut off. They have electricity from their own power plant. Also, there is *a lot* of voices coming out of Gaza, it's not like the communication infrastructure is broken.
JamShady
Near enough all Israeli's are sitting in warm homes with food, water, electricity, and medical access, without pressing matters that allow them to make such comments. Meanwhile in Gaza, literally everyone is struggling to survive without any of those basic necessities, and trying to not be another collateral damage target by Israeli indiscriminate targeting. I'd say they've got more pressing matters than to appease your disgusting understand of the reality they're subject to.
kadaeux
Because Israel keeps bombing them.
jimmyriba
...every time because of HAMAS' attacks on Israel. So you would hope to see some Gazans distancing themselves from HAMAS. Just like a large percentage of Israeli are vocally against Netanyahu and the expansion of settlements on the West Bank.
kadaeux
As fucked as HAMAS is, why would they be vocally against the only force that seems remotely willing to actually act against the nuclear power actively supporting invasions via settler and allowing attacks like this one so they can justify playing at genocide again?
AnythingMuchShorter
Since I was old enough to understand the news in the mid 80's it's always sounded like this "Terrorists suspected to be from Palestine have used improvised weapons made from fireworks and gasoline in an attack that killed 6 Israelis. In response Israel has bombarded their cities with artillery and guided missiles for the past 4 days, and an estimated 3500 Palestinians are dead so far, and their power, water and food supply lines are crippled."
NeverDownvoteMelBrooks
"proportional response" ... if you ignore exponents in the math
Rhythmaster
Yeah every news story about the conflict flaring up had these kinds of numbers, it was pretty obvious even to me back then when I was totally politically illiterate. Interestingly when 9/11 happened i didnt feel the same way until so much later, because north american media covered it in a biased way, and I betcha Israeli media covers their things in a similar biased way.
Rulweylan
The difference being mainly that Israel dug bomb shelters while Hamas dug attack tunnels. Hamas worked on bigger rockets to fire at Israel, Israel worked on the iron dome to intercept them. Israel used air raid warnings to get their people to safety, Hamas herded civilians at gunpoint into buildings that Israel had announced their intention to bomb.
Rhythmaster
Israel built defenses, it's true, but they also built an apartheid state and an open air prison, and they fire plenty of air strikes at gaza and I'm not saying this in any way justifies what hamas does. hamas is a terrorist antisemitic group, but your framing of it as Israel always being on the defensive and not attacking is not really accurate.
bngd
It makes sense when you frame it through generational trauma. A visit to the DC holocaust museum tells them what happens if they take their guard down. Not saying is right…but it adds more layers to the collective psyche.
SeeShark
Well, I hope you're happy that in the recent conflict Palestinian militants used advanced tactics to slaughter 1300 Israeli civilians. Is this better? Is this a more moral outcome?
Chair5768
"Israel-Palestine: Gaza death toll passes 5,000 with no ceasefire in sight" https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142687
JustAlex94
What the fuck is wrong with you. The person is only stating what has been happening since hundreds of years ago. It's only worse cause now they use modern weapons and not blades. Welcome to religious wars.
SeeShark
What? No, this person is literally describing the history between Israel and the Palestinians for the last 30 years, tops.
AnythingMuchShorter
I'd rather it was balanced by the response be to kill fewer, or none. But if you want to assume the worst possible meaning, which doesn't even make sense, and then get outraged by it I can't stop you.
SeeShark
You were directly saying that part of the problem was the imbalance of the situation, which is a very frequent thing people say to call out Israel. Obviously we'd all be happier if there wasn't any violence, but if you're going to use the imbalance as a point of criticism towards Israel, shouldn't you view a more balanced situation as preferable? Because if you don't, then perhaps you should refrain from using imbalance as a criticism in the first place.
bngd
If Hamas focused less in exterminating Jews and actually governed for their people things might be different.
Rhythmaster
You're not wrong, and it also doesnt help that they havent held elections in about 20 years
AnythingMuchShorter
Yeah that would be cool. Maybe Israel should focus more on military and terrorist targets and not kill so many civilians in the process. For every innocent person they harm they create more future terrorists and enemies.
Rulweylan
Hamas uses UN schools as storage and launch positions for rockets and mortars. They've been doing it for years. Even the UN admit that they do it. https://unwatch.org/un-admits-palestinians-fired-rockets-unrwa-schools/
bngd
They hide behind civilians. If we pick sides Hamas wins.